Erection problems from PE (I think)

tbirdy,

>1. Your past ED. Nerve related. I think you fought it off , even before it developed so you never really had real ED.<

Well, poor erections are poor erections. The causes are many, and mine were bad. I surely did not think there was no problem at the time.

>It went away by itself. ED does not cure by itself, it gets worse with time.<

Well, some surely do. If the cause is blunt force trauma, and you allow the tissues to heal, and not provide anymore trauma, then it will probably heal.

But I understand what you mean. Often, a vascular problem can be permanent, unless some plumbing work is done.

>2.
My ED. The biggest difference between yours and mine is: Mine developed subsequently after 2 injuries/traumas to the erect penis. I NEVER ever (up to this day) had the chance to understand or pinpoint WHAT exactly got damaged. See ? This is the reason for my chaos in the head ? I don't know the enemy, I'm trapped in the dark. You logically concluded "its the nerves behind the head" and stopped chronically injuring them. I don't know what is injured.<

Can you give the general area of ORIGINAL injury?

>Is it the arteries ?<

From your description, it surely could be. Have you tried any BTB jelqing? I know that you are shy of Penis Enlargement now, but this is something that could really help. It is not going to damage you any further, and could provide a much greater blood supply. A wild ass guess, but I get the feeling this is what you need. More blood getting into the chambers.

It may also help with any restrictions (plaque) in the feeder vessels.

>Is it the veins ?<

Only from the standpoint of the feeder vessels not providing enough blood to get the initial clamping of the return vessels (veins). If the veins are not clamping off, then no or weak erections.

>Nerves ?<

You respond to stimulation, so probably not. But you have numbness on the bottom of your shaft, which could screw with your head, limiting NO production, and dialation of feeder vessels.

>Venous leak ?<

Probably due to weak inflow as stated above.

>cavernous leak ?<

Any bulges or odd formations in your erections? If not, then no.

>degenrated muscle cells in the cavernous bodys ?<

No.

>Fibrosis in the cavernous body <

Find anything from palpation? Any unevenness in your erections? One chamber larger or smaller than the others, or than normal?

>Or what comes closest to my situation : A bit of all of the above mentioned.<

I don't think so. I think your problem is specific, but you are taking a shotgun approach, trying to get a fix. Better to sit back, analize, and come up with a game plan. Then, go about things in a progressive manner, addressing one thing at a time.

If it were me, I would try some BTB jelqing, and try to get a full, sustained erection. You are getting weak erections now. Try to get more blood flow, and see if you can get a higher quality erection.

Most guys do not realize the minute differences in what constitutes a rock hard erection, and a weak one. It does not take much to disrupt a good erection.

Think of it this way: What happens when guys get priapism, an erection that will not subside? No stimulation, no NO production, nothing, but the erection will not go down. This is simply a huge blood flow, causing complete shut off of all return blood, and therefore the erection cannot go down, even when inflow is not there. Like a very tight cock ring.

But the overall physiology is not that different from a normal erection. The converse is also true: The overall physiology is not that different when you experience weak erections. If you supply even a bit more inflow, it could solve your problem completely.

This is what I attribute to my better erections. I do BTB jelqing a few times per month, just to keep things in shape, make sure the inflow is there, and my erections are better than in my 30's. Not my 20's, but I do not expect miracles.

>There is revascularisation surgery.= Connecting arteries to veins. = more inflow = more pressure = should be a hard dick after the op. But what if its the nerves ? The nerves control the dialation of the arteries, if the signal doesn't arrive at the arterie = no success of the revascularisation surgery.<

As I said above, I do not think it is the nerves. You react to stimulation. You may have less feeling on the bottom of your shaft, but not too much overall numbness.

As far as more surgery, I would get more information first. Any more cutting would be a final option.

>Also, what if its the veins ? Or venous leak ? remember erection hardness happens because almost ALL bloodoutflow is trapped. So if its the veins/nerves/leakage = no success of the revascularisation surgery.<

You are able to get a partial, or weak erection. Your problem is the lack of inflow, not the ablilty to cut off outflow.

>What if it is the arteries ? Arterisklerosis ?! And everything else works fine. The veins are all ok and the spongy tissues and the nerves too ? Then revascularization surgery or hooking the main artery that leads to the penis to a even bigger arterie is THE option, and the way to go.<

Or manual angioplasty, BTB jelqing may work! Try it!

>Nerves ? Nerve surgery ? Haven't found ANYTHING on nerve surgery yet. In bibs case the nerves were "dulled" and returned to normal. I know nerves can regenrates long as the axons in the spine are present. But what if a nerve is cut. (like probably in my case) After this vein ligation surgery, My whole upperside of the dick is still completely numb (its been 2 month). I was told it takes 3 month and then it will return to normal. I don#t believe in that. Correct me if I'm wrong, if a nerve gets cut , then the distant half will die off and be absorbed by the body, UNLESS you very quickly after the cut, connect the ends. Then, after 12-16 month the nerve will regenerate and you might get a weak feeling back. Thats what I remember about nerves.<

It depends on how close the ends are together. Also if the myelin sheath is also cut, which in surgery it usually is. I believe nerves grow at about one cm per month.

>"The 4 arteries could be identified and they worked, however there seems to be not "quite" enough blood-inflow. However this could be due to : Either the horrific scenario : me jerking off , then calling the doc back in, then measuring , then erection gone , then repeat...not natural and not stimulating or maybe because of a ill connection , where the arterie goes directly into a vein directly bloodoutflow from that arterie.(highly unlikely though)<

Hang your hat on this. Poor blood inflow. From what I have read here, that is your problem. Now, how that relates to your injury, I do not know, especially without more information on your injury. But you need to address the inflow.

With BTB jelqing, and other manual and mental stimulation, you need to see if you can get an above normal erection. If so, you have found your problem.

>To really investigate what is going on within the penis, you need to perform radiology and cavernosographie.
You get to fat needles in each of your corpus cavernosum , the needles are attached to a pump, this pump fill the chambers with 50%saline and 50% contrast agent , and the doctors x-ray the dick..because ofthe contrast agent , the EXACT position of a potential venous leak can be pinpoined (they exactly see the blood-outflow). Sounds good , eh ? Why did i not choose to do this: Potentually dangerous and invasive procedere. One side effect can be inflammation of all chambers and complete fibrosis thereafter = complete impotence. Not a good scenario, rare though.<

Hold off on thoughts of this.

>A first step into the right direction. A first step into the light. 1 week after the surgery, I had AMAZING results to say the least. Spontanious morning wood for the first time ever ! The CS filled up to its max my inner Penis got huge , my overall girth at the base increased to 6 inches at erection, where it never naturally was in my whole life. It was like, I finally filled out the spce that I created though Penis Enlargement. My head was HARD. For the first time in 2 years it was really really hard...

unfortunatly , as quickly as all of this came it went away again. 2 and 3d week, I noticed new veins poppin out everywhere. either bridge veins from the cut veins , or new fullsize veins. of the 10-15 veins that the doctor ligated - only 3-4 COMPLETLY turned into full length scarr strings , and really were shut down for good. The only effect that I kept after this 3 week was a still harder head and a more engorged CS, but even that is gone now.<

OK, what changed in those 2-3 weeks? Or rather, what happened after the surgery to provide better erections? Any veins that you see in the shaft are irrelevant to erection quality. It only matters if the outflow is cut off, inside your body, from the dialation of the inflow vessels, and the increased blood pressure in that area. New veins in the shaft make no difference.

>I have the same situation as before. I can get erect ANY time, by severe stimulation of the penis underside , while clamping my legs/ass muscles and pc muscle..as soon as i let of the pc pressure or stop the stimulation, it goes down 2 nothing ! Really , really fast. No standing power at all.<

This is great, and shows what I mean. Several things are required in an erection. The stimulation provides dialation of the inflow vessels. Then, sufficient blood flow must be there to fill the dialated vessels. Then, the dialation and blood flow must be sufficient to increase pressure against the outflow vessels, to therefore cut off outflow.

You said, "by severe stimulation of the penis underside , while clamping my legs/ass muscles and pc muscle". What does this mean? You got 100% or greater stimulation, which provided max dialation, and then clamped your legs ass, PC, to attempt to restrict outflow. What is missing? Obviously is is blood supply. There is a restriction in blood inflow, which BTB jelqing may address in grand fashion.

>Oh wait , my situation is even worse now. I have the complete upperside numb. I don't know if nerves were cut that control the arteries...I don't know I was told that the doctor took EXTRA care, and tried NOT to injure the precious nerves...damn ! My orgasm is ALOT weaker now..ALOT ALOT..before , even with the ED I had powerfull, satisfying orgasms , now its not really worth the struggle...<

I think this shotgun approach makes things snowball. You need to sit back, relax, and take things one at a time. Work on blood inflow first. When/if you feel your blood supply is sufficient, then you can look at other things. But above all, relax, heal from the procedures, and then go about things objectively.

>I have a tens unit. With this thing you can train your smooth muscle cells. it works by stimulating the nerves in the penis, and these nerves make the muscle cells react and contract. Before the OP , when I used this tens on my upperside, it was tingling and contracting. Now it doesn't. The only nerves that i DO feel is the most important, that goes along the downside from the frenulum to the prostate. But even in that nerve I have less feeling.<

Put the tens unit away.

>The scar and the tissue around the scar is still swollen a bit, maybe this swelling is still pushing on the upper nerves like in BIBS case and the nerves get numbed, maybe after more time the swelling will be gone completely and the nerves will react again ? I don't know. I hope so.<

Yes. Even a little swelling of the myelin sheath will interrupt the electrical signal in the nerves. Relax and heal.

>Next steps ? Well, there gotta be a overriding factor !
And in my case I think its the veins.<

I don't think so. Without more information, I think it is blood supply, arteries, amount of available inflow blood.

>I had huge success with it. And it all failed because the veins were not closed full length. With the technique described in the upper post , they can close the deep dorsal and its channel veins for good, they can also close the topical , rechanneled veins for good. I hope to get the results back , that I used 2 have.
Is this logical. ???<

It is logical, but does not address the problem. Even a trickle of incoming blood can be sufficient to produce an erection, if all outgoing blood is cut off by drastic means, either a cock ring, or tieing off all outgoing veins. But that is not a solution. If you can increase the incoming blood you can clamp off the outgoing veins naturally, and have better erections.

>I seriously don't care bout the weak orgasms or the numb upperside , if only I can get back the results from the first op , permanent. I think I still will have the option to hook the main penis arterie to a bigger one to increase the pressure later. This is very invasive and VERY VERY dangerous, though...probably to expensive and no insurance covers it. The ethanol sklerosing thing is cheap and my insurance will cover it.

Does this sound logical to u , or am I missing something ?<

Don't even consider any more surgery until you know EXACTLY what is happening, EXACTLY what the problem is, and address it. Everything to do with the veins is a moot point, if there is not suffcient incoming blood. This does not mean only open healthy arteries, but also the amount of blood available to flow through those arteries.

>Thats what in my head. You also got me thinking , that since you DID know your problem and I don't, maybe I shouldn't go for a overriding factor solution and shoot in the dark agan. Maybe I should take the risk and have a cavernosographie ? Then again , if I decide to go with the sklerosing OP , I don*'t need the exact location , everything will be taken care off.<

No. Sit back, relax, and heal. Vit B complex is needed for regeneration of nerves. Get some and take it. That's it. Then, please take my advice and try the BTB jelqing. Very easy to do. See if you can increase the incoming blood.

After a couple months, re-evaluate and see where you are. And once again, do not do anything until you know for sure what is needed, and how it should come out.

>What you definetly inspired me to do: Getting the arteries checked through angiology, and getting all the nerves checked , if they still respond, before I do any more operations.<

But don't do that until you have healed, and are sure you have enough blood to feed the arteries of the shaft.

Bigger

orbital,

>I'm wondering if we damaged our smooth muscles or erectile tissue with Penis Enlargement and the damage scarred. Scar tissue doesn't work like the tissue it replaces. For example, after a heart attack, scar tissue forms in the affected cells. They don't regain their heart-beating functionality. If our smooth muscles were damaged and suffered some scarring, they wouldn't relax completely when NO is released in the brain, impairing the ability of the spongy blood vessels to dilate and make a penis rigid. Scar tissue can be somewhat flexible, though, and so this might explain how with heavy masturbation you and I are able to get a better hard on. Are there any ways other than biopsies to determine if any scar tissue is present in the smooth muscles of the penis?<

You may or may not understand the purpose and function of the smooth muscle that lines the vessels of the three chambers. It is to dialate the vessels, allowing for greater volume in the chambers, to expand to the limits of the tunica, and produce an erection.

Smooth muscle does not produce scar tissue to any great extent. Tears are easily healed, and generally will conform to the approximate condition of the original tissue. Further, it is very hard to tear that particular smooth muscle. It is well protected.

Then, if a guy gets regular, daily erections, the higher internal blood pressure against the smooth muscle will train it to heal in a normal state. At any rate, the higher internal blood pressure will not be affected by any small aberations in the smooth muscle.

Further, if you had internal chamber damage, it should result in lopsided erections, one chamber being obviously larger or fuller than another, or bulges, etc. Plus, you should be able to actually palpate and find any damaged tissue.

Much more likely to cause problems is a tear and resulting scar tissue in the tunica, which is generally the cause of peyronies.

>As I continue this line of thought, it makes sense that scar tissue replaces the damaged tissue when I consider how my flacid penis hangs 1.5 inches or so longer than it used to before Penis Enlargement: The scar tissue is relatively inflexible, and so the smooth muscle isn't able to completely contract in the relaxed, flacid state.<

Once again, that would not be the smooth muscle, but rather the tunica. Flaccid hang is dependent on the length of the tunica, and the relative amount of elastin within the collagenous tissues. A shower vs a grower. More likely, in your case, either the tunica became relatively longer, or you effectively lengthened the elastin fibers of your shaft.

>What do you guys think? I've been reading that smooth muscle has a limited ability to regenerate, so maybe it isn't all gloom and doom.<

Smooth muscle regenerates as well as any tissue in the body, about the same as striated muscle. Collagenous tissues take much longer to heal, and are more likely to form scar tissue.

Bigger

Bib. I love you ! Not in a gay way (I'm straight). But because you took extra extra time to adress my problem and chaos, despite me (kinda) insulting you couple posts above.
Man, pls stick with me on this one for a little longer.
I have something new to add and something to clear up , because I feel you got it wrong. I definetly need your consultation, 2 brains are better than one. Maybe together we will find the missing clue !
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quote:
"Can you give the general area of ORIGINAL injury?"

Yes, I can give the exact locations. First injury. 2 years ago. Affected area, left chamber , 1 inch away from base. Resulted in shortening and size loss in that chamber and deviation. Did alot of Penis Enlargement and got all of the girth back and straightend everything out. (Remember my "cure uneven chambers thread?") No big signs of ED. Then second injury. Bottomside, 2 inches away from base. Mostly affected the CS-chamber, wich never filled up as good after the injury including the head.
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Ok now the most important thing that we need to get a "common" / same understanding off :

Venous leak. And what EXACTLY it means.

I understand that your hinting at weak blood-inflow and that more inflow should cure my condition. You are right ofcourse. However, its totally unrealistic, no btb jelquing will ever build up enough internal pressure to counter the outflow from the LEAK ! Thats why i flex my (ultra-strong) pc muscles, clamp my ass together, move my upper legs together and cross them to get it up...more pressure !

Ok now back to the understanding of the leak. Once you understand u will see everything in new perspective :

Study this picture exactly. Its basically from any part of the cavernous chambers. It works the same everywhere, but the head.

HEALTHY ERECTION, NO LEAK !

Left is flaccid and right is erect=no outflow (or 99,9% restricted)
Notice how the expansion of the spongy tissue CLAMPS OFF and restricts the vein !
A venous leak is NOT necessary a damaged vein, or very big vein. A venous leak is in fact the DAMAGED tissue AROUND the exact point where the vein enters the spongy tissue. Because of that damaged area (even if its small) this particular vein does NOT get restricted, EVER. Even if you have a perfectly healthy dick everywhere else. Healthy nerves and arteries.
Understand the importance of this ? Understand why vein ligations, revasculariszatio surgery mostly fail ß its because of this.
I think this directly realtes to me.

I DO have inflow. And you are right, as long as there is very good restriction (everywhere) you could fill a dick up to a rock hard erection, even if you had 1 tiny weak arterie and not 4 of them.

YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE MONEY WiTH THIS (just add this new information into the mix)

QUOTE :
"""OK, what changed in those 2-3 weeks? Or rather, what happened after the surgery to provide better erections? Any veins that you see in the shaft are irrelevant to erection quality. It only matters if the outflow is cut off, inside your body, from the dialation of the inflow vessels, and the increased blood pressure in that area. New veins in the shaft make no difference."""

The reason for success and failure is very simple :
Initial success was because they WERE LUCKY and did LIGATE the very exact vein that originated from the venous leak (damged tissue area). The problem is : They fixed the vein at the base, and my speculation is, since a vein is interconnected with other veins and has many branches, the vein simply rechanneled , somehwere between the VENOUS LEAK location and the cut end ! Once that happened, the outflow was unstopped.

So logically, to shut a venous leak down for good , you have to SHUT down the VEIN, FULL LENGTH , from the exact ENTER point into the leak , down the full length up to the base. Only then this LEAK is fixed/patched for good !

Ligation surgery can't do that fro obvious reasons, so there is only the option of attempting full length vein sklerosis.

THIS is the over-riding factor. I should be able to get 100% rock again even with my present arterial and nerve condition. The first 2 weeks (post) showed CLEARLY , that I do have what it takes to FILL a dick , but I don't have what it takes to KEEP the blood where it is.

Ok last but not least , with the new understanding of VENOUS LEAK in mind, you also got to understand , I didn't have a 100% rock hard erection in over a year. I mean really really rock hard with hardly any outflow.

So EVEN if the DO find the location of the venous leak , and even if the manage to sklerose the vein that comes out of that area. The blood chooses the pass of least resistance , just like water under pressure. A new venous leak CAN possibly open up ( if there is more damaged tissue in my dick ) That would have to get fixed too.

Man , just compare my dick to a sinking ship...(only with the (fluid-)flow , everything is in reverse )

I need to get the holes , all the weak spots PATCHED/FIXED in my love boat, so that I can sail again.

I guess , with this in mind , I don't have too much choice , rather than taking the crazy risk of a cavernosographie. I wonder if its theoretically possible to inject a contrast agents through the artries , leading into the penis , rather than hooking the penis to a pump. All they need to see is where the blood leaves/leaks at 1000% erection.

I guess thats the problem. I can't get a 1000% erection , naturally , with stimulation , injection , viagra..I guess this is why the hook peoples dicks to pumps, because they can PUMP SO MUCH into the dick (similar to what you were hintin at with the btb and the more inflow to fix my solution) so that the regular outflow is countered and the biggest hole (pressure finds its easy way) as in vENOUS LEAK is easily to identify.
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Man In fact , i just had another lighning strike.
The area where I injured myself , is also the area where I got the fat veins. I know why:

EXCESSIVE PRESSURE ON THE VEINS oveR A LONG Penis EnlargementRIOD !!!! In a healthy erection , there is hardly any pressure on the veins...remember the picture...the veins blood access is restricted, so no pressure. In my case , I had an injury , so after that, the vein had full access to the blood and the pressure of the whole erection was pushing out of one hole (the venous leak location) where , after some time , the walls of the vein got fucked up. Same situation as with those veins (in affected people) , that run FROM the calves to the upper leg, fat, snaky , and hurtfull) There , they perform vein stripping , to get rid of this condition. Stripping leaves the same result as full length sklerosing. Cutting leads to rechanneling !


ok gotta go sleep over this...

i need to find a way of finding these leaks at minimal danger for the dick , and a way of shutting them for good !!!

Very interesting post guys,I wil reread when I am not exhausted.Just what does cause ED anyway? I neverhave had a problem with ED,now that I have got this pemchant for Viagra I don't even worry that it will ever cause me problems.There were times whith out viagra when I am tired that I will go soft,but I feel the use of viagra even in small doses causes nocturnal erections which I feel keep the ole pipes clean,so to speak.Bib.and Tbirdy what are your feelings on this?I do know that the viagra helps my blood pressure to stay within a safe realm,which I feel helps my erections,but like Bib I feel there are times when my erection could be better(with out the viagra)with viagra(even 25 mg my erections are rock hard and larger than the norm,I feel that P.E. has helped me to gain and inchand a half in both length and girth.I mean vein bulging erections that are like I hae a clamp on,what do y'all think?

Yep, great info, I am learning a lot. It's a good thing this thread didn't go to hell when it could have a few posts ago. Goes to show true maturity and good will from you.

I hope you nail this thing, good luck tbirdy.

Pupper, I know of 2 double-blind randomized studys performed on guys.
1 study was performed for 1 year , the other for 3 month.

1 study summery (its in german so i translate short version for u)

They took 140 guys and devided them into 2 groups. All of these guys had mild to medium ED. The first group was given 50 mg viagra each day,prior to sleep, no skipping days, for the time of one year. The second group was randomly given viagra, every couple of days for one year.
Both grups were closely examinated and had to stop all viagra intake after the year. The were checked and rechecked 1 month and 6 month after the study-year.

Results :
In the first group 58,8% regained a completely normal erection after the year and kept it without taking viagra after the year.
In the second group only 9,7% regained their erections.
In group 1 the systolic arterial flow ((PSV)) increased
from 29,4 + 9,8 cm/s to 38,9 + 10,3 cm/s !!!!!
In the second group a non siginificant improvement of + 3,0 cm/s was observed.

Those guys from group 1, who completely regained their erections and kept them for 6 month without viagra intake , were examined again for 6 month of no viagra intake (a total of 1 year without viagra) 95 % of these guys kept their regained erections !!!!

observation and explanation :

It was observed that daily, evening intake of 50 mg viagra , significantly prolonged nocturnal and morning erections.
A well train smooth muscle tissue , with many muscle cells and low collagen is very good for the erection. In fact this daily intake lead to a normalizing of mild and medium ED.
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So thats why I advised orbital , who is suffering from mild ED to take the viagra daily in the evening. No skipping days!!!!!! I myself am currently on the same regime. However the studys also says , that this viagra training wll only work for guys with mostly intakt blood and vein vessels. I guess that means no luck for me...I still take the chance

But all you young guys with mild ED should instantly set yourself on this regime and follow it in painfull detail.
Forgot to mention , those 140 guys who were examined were 40 - 50 years old. So if old fucks can regain their erections, sure as hell you can !!!!!!

T,I can tell you from the standpoint of a 43 year old man (me)with a 40 year old wife,My wife in her sexual peak, myself also having a high libido but sometimes having to work long hours(and I'm in business for myself ),when you own the company you are tyed to it.Viagra taken reularlly has had very good effects for me not just in the bedroom but with rock solid morning erections,lower blood pressure and mindblowing orgasms,combine that with being highly sexual (lots of sex)in a monogamous relationship(which we both have a lot of love and trust for each other)It works,injuries or no injuries,I never neede the stuff before,but after tryig it,like bib was saying "erection quality"was betond compare,I did'nt get this hard when I was a teenager.Viagra is a very good product I feel,even with the reports of blindness and hairy palms(LOL).Viagra does not give you the libido though I feel that the right supplements,diet,exercise(which I don't get much of except in the bedroom)and a positive mental outlook give a person libido,viagra is an erection enhancing drug,that has a dual benefit of lowering blood pressure and enhancing erections.Also if you get morning wood you know your body is healthy.I'll pm you that info we talked about later,real busynow got to go,I'll write tonite(pm)

tbirdy,

>I have something new to add and something to clear up , because I feel you got it wrong. I definetly need your consultation, 2 brains are better than one. Maybe together we will find the missing clue !<

Well, I think we are looking at a matter of degree. You may not understand exactly how an erection is formed, but you have a general idea. I feel like you are discounting the importance of blood supply to getting a good erection. I still do not see where you know what you are working with.


>>"Can you give the general area of ORIGINAL injury?"

Yes, I can give the exact locations. First injury. 2 years ago. Affected area, left chamber , 1 inch away from base. Resulted in shortening and size loss in that chamber and deviation. Did alot of Penis Enlargement and got all of the girth back and straightend everything out. (Remember my "cure uneven chambers thread?") No big signs of ED. Then second injury. Bottomside, 2 inches away from base. Mostly affected the CS-chamber, wich never filled up as good after the injury including the head.<<

OK, now how did the injury occur? Trauma, bruising, etc? What does the injury look like? Give as much information as possible.


>Venous leak. And what EXACTLY it means.

I understand that your hinting at weak blood-inflow and that more inflow should cure my condition. You are right ofcourse. However, its totally unrealistic, no btb jelquing will ever build up enough internal pressure to counter the outflow from the LEAK !<

I am not saying you are wrong, but how do you know that? The amounts of pressure we are talking about, and the difference between a weak erection, and a good erection, are minute. It does not take much.

>Thats why i flex my (ultra-strong) pc muscles, clamp my ass together, move my upper legs together and cross them to get it up...more pressure !<

That does not do much to cut down on return blood flow. It is just enough to help. Greater blood flow can do the same thing. Tell me this: Have you ever used a cock ring? If so, how did it work? How long did it take to get an erection? Relatively hard or easy?

>Ok now back to the understanding of the leak. Once you understand u will see everything in new perspective :

Study this picture exactly. Its basically from any part of the cavernous chambers. It works the same everywhere, but the head.

HEALTHY ERECTION, NO LEAK !

Left is flaccid and right is erect=no outflow (or 99,9% restricted)
Notice how the expansion of the spongy tissue CLAMPS OFF and restricts the vein !
A venous leak is NOT necessary a damaged vein, or very big vein. A venous leak is in fact the DAMAGED tissue AROUND the exact point where the vein enters the spongy tissue. Because of that damaged area (even if its small) this particular vein does NOT get restricted, EVER. Even if you have a perfectly healthy dick everywhere else. Healthy nerves and arteries.
Understand the importance of this ? Understand why vein ligations, revasculariszatio surgery mostly fail ß its because of this.
I think this directly realtes to me.<<

I do understand all of that. But it is not a one shot deal. There is more than one opportunity to cut off return blood flow, and if the artery dialation, and incoming blood supply are great enough, it will still cut off return flow, even in damaged tissues. That is simple physics. If you can do it manually, or with a cock ring, you can probably do it naturally, with a greater blood supply.

>I DO have inflow. And you are right, as long as there is very good restriction (everywhere) you could fill a dick up to a rock hard erection, even if you had 1 tiny weak arterie and not 4 of them.<

But how confident are you in your blood supply, and why do you have this confidence? Did the Dr do any tests?

>>The reason for success and failure is very simple :
Initial success was because they WERE LUCKY and did LIGATE the very exact vein that originated from the venous leak (damged tissue area). The problem is : They fixed the vein at the base, and my speculation is, since a vein is interconnected with other veins and has many branches, the vein simply rechanneled , somehwere between the VENOUS LEAK location and the cut end ! Once that happened, the outflow was unstopped.<

I do not think so. Especially not in two weeks. I believe you need to totally rethink this vein thing, and do not assume that cutting off return flow is your fix.

>So logically, to shut a venous leak down for good , you have to SHUT down the VEIN, FULL LENGTH , from the exact ENTER point into the leak , down the full length up to the base. Only then this LEAK is fixed/patched for good !<

No, this is not how it works. You can shut the return flow off, at any point up to the main veins within the body, and acheive an erection, as long as there is sufficient blood flow into the shaft. You are putting way too much attention into the return veins. I do not think that is your problem at all.

BTW, take everything your Dr says with a grain of salt. Remember, he does not eat unless you have a problem.

Further, there is a lot of info on the web about venous leakage. Most of what I saw suggested treating by increasing the incoming blood flow FIRST. Most by taking Viagra, Cialas, or Caverjet. But I am thinking a couple weeks of BTB jelqing will fix your problem.

>THIS is the over-riding factor. I should be able to get 100% rock again even with my present arterial and nerve condition. The first 2 weeks (post) showed CLEARLY , that I do have what it takes to FILL a dick , but I don't have what it takes to KEEP the blood where it is.<

This is the one point I can see that fully supports your position. That you get an erection, and then slowly loose it, does mean something. But still, with greater internal pressure, the return blood can be more effectively cut off, and the erection stay.

>>Ok last but not least , with the new understanding of VENOUS LEAK in mind, you also got to understand , I didn't have a 100% rock hard erection in over a year. I mean really really rock hard with hardly any outflow.<<

That is not unusual with decreased inflow also.

>So EVEN if the DO find the location of the venous leak , and even if the manage to sklerose the vein that comes out of that area. The blood chooses the pass of least resistance , just like water under pressure. A new venous leak CAN possibly open up ( if there is more damaged tissue in my dick ) That would have to get fixed too.<

I just do not think so.

>>Man , just compare my dick to a sinking ship...(only with the (fluid-)flow , everything is in reverse )

I need to get the holes , all the weak spots PATCHED/FIXED in my love boat, so that I can sail again.<<<

NO! You cannot possibly have that kind of damage. You are completely off the deep end, thinking this way. Before you continue to try and plug every return vein, at least try to solve this by increasing blood flow. At least try a couple of weeks of light BTB jelqing.

>>I guess , with this in mind , I don't have too much choice , rather than taking the crazy risk of a cavernosographie. I wonder if its theoretically possible to inject a contrast agents through the artries , leading into the penis , rather than hooking the penis to a pump. All they need to see is where the blood leaves/leaks at 1000% erection.<

Yes, I believe they can inject contrast into the blood stream. Not positive though.

Without this kind of test, there is not even any way to see what the problem is. This test would also rule out a supply side problem. If there were no, or little leakage, at a high pressure, then you would know you do not have a vein leakage problem.

>>I guess thats the problem. I can't get a 1000% erection , naturally , with stimulation , injection , viagra..I guess this is why the hook peoples dicks to pumps, because they can PUMP SO MUCH into the dick (similar to what you were hintin at with the btb and the more inflow to fix my solution) so that the regular outflow is countered and the biggest hole (pressure finds its easy way) as in vENOUS LEAK is easily to identify.<<

Yep, that's it.

>i need to find a way of finding these leaks at minimal danger for the dick , and a way of shutting them for good !!!<

Just take it one step at a time, and take the LEAST invasive steps first. Do not be in a hurry. The least invasive step may be to increase the incoming blood first.

Bigger

Tbirdy if you can get hold of it, try spraying Glycerol Nitrate onto your penis and that should absorb into your penile bloodstream and make the vessells openmore and hence increase bloodflow.
Make sure you read it up before attempting it, see my thread on the main section.
Also BIB makes sense with what he's saying here so listen to the guy.

Bib,

I just read your post where you addressed my concerns about smooth muscle. My ideas were mostly speculative, gathered from a few (relatively intensive) weeks of research on erectile dysfunction. I don't really know much at all.

Thanks for your considerate response. I am going to a Urologist here in Pittsburgh tommorrow, July 13. I don't understand the extent of my ED. In fact, my ignorance is one of the worst parts about this ordeal for me.

By the way, how are you doing Provider? Is anything improving? How about you, Tbirdy?

Keep us informed.

@bib

But how confident are you in your blood supply, and why do you have this confidence? Did the Dr do any tests?

There shouldn't be a problem with the blood supply, remember , they performed a full duplex on me and found all 4 arteries to be working within normal ranges.

------------------------------------------------------------------
more info on venous leak :

source :http://my.weBathmated.com/content/article/4/1680_50142

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Venous leakage is a relatively common cause of erectile dysfunction. An inability to achieve and maintain the full erection occurs because blood leaks out in the presence of an adequate arterial inflow due to a damaged veno-corporo-occlusive mechanism. There are five theorized types of venogenic impotence.

Type 1 is due to the presence of an excessively large number of veins exiting the corporal body. This is probably congenital and is seen in young men with primary erectile dysfunction.

Type 2 is the weakening of the tough outer membrane of the corporal membrane of the corporal body known as the tunica albuginea, resulting in poor compression of the veins, such as in elderly men. I consider this a wear-and-tear phenomenon.

Type 3 is the loss of compliance of the cavernosal smooth muscle because of Peyronie's disease or scarring degeneration in patients with severe hardening of the arteries.

Type 4 is poor relaxation of the cavernous smooth muscle due to inadequate release of the hormones it takes to create an erection. This is typically common in heavy smokers.

Type 5 results from abnormal communications between the corpora cavernosa and the spongiosum due to trauma or a prior procedure to treat priapism. Patients with pure erectile dysfunction on the basis of a venous leak are rare, but many men have venous leakage as a component of their erectile dysfunction. Many years ago, we felt that this was a major problem, and during the early 1980s a great deal of venous leakage surgery was performed. We found that patients with specific venous leakage due to congenital abnormalities or specific trauma type situations do well with these types of operations, but the majority of patients do poorly. We still feel the first choice for patients who have venous leakage is a vacuum erection device or treatment with intercavernosal injections. The only patients who are candidates for a venous leakage operation are patients who have failed simple, noninvasive treatments.

Many people have attempted surgery for venous leakage. A host of different procedures attempt to make the diagnosis. All these techniques basically try to measure the pressures required to make blood leak out of the corporal bodies. Cavernosography is the technique of injecting dye into the corporal body to identify a leaking blood vessel. Prostaglandin is first injected to create an erection and then dye, which potentially identifies the site of the leakage. The results of these diagnostic procedures have not been dramatic.

When it has been determined that the patient is a good candidate for repair, the idea of treatment is to find the vein that is the source of the leakage and then tie it off. If the leaking vessel is near the base of the body, then an incision is made over that area. We feel that good candidates for venous surgery are those who have identified a localized leak and who have had a complete workup to rule out all the obvious causes for erectile dysfunction, including the Duplex Doppler examination. Surgical candidates should be nonsmokers, young, and have no other medical problems. A preoperative X-ray examination called the cavernosogram should identify the site of the leaking vessel.

The complications with this type of operation are numerous, as with all operations. They include numbness of the penis, scarring, a shortening or twisting of the penis, and painful erections.
---------------------------------------------------------------

So what I have to do next, so I was told by the other specialist is :

1. Get an MRi done to measure the desnity of the tunica albuginea and Bucks Fascie/Fascia Penis profunda. In order to check for injurys or cuts or leaks in those tissues.
-I will soon see a specialist who is specialized on ED and treating Induratio Penis Plastica. Incase I have a damaged tunica, with diffuse blood leakage, there is a op technique called "patching" (very invasive, but It could help me.

2. Get another VERY GOOD dfull duplex ultrasound scan with 40mg injection this time. In order to search for possible leak locations and display the arterial situation one more time.Get the results of the MRi and duplex (images and text) burned on cd for further investigation by the specialists in the other country.

this should cut through the fog some more...

I personally still have my hopes high for for the "one or 2 vein leaks from the cavernous body" situation. The first 2 week after the op strongly support a situation like that
If those veins wouldn't have rechanneld, I'd still be rock hard and 6" girth....
i thik those 2 weeks prooved, that the nerves, veins, smooth/spongy tissues and arterial supply is good enough , the only variable changed were the veins, at the base....

man how i wish all of this was over !!!

Still worrying about my erection problems. Bib, I found something that echoes what you said about smooth muscle. The article says that smooth muscle is highly flexible, and is not damaged by over stretching. Here is a link (the info is at the bottom of the page)

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...html+what+happens+to+torn+smooth+muscle&hl=en

Looks like you were right!

Hey guys. I haven't really read much of these long posts on the thread but just to let you know its finally time for my urologist visit. It's on tuesday afternoon.

Provider, be careful. I saw a urologist, and he was pretty dimsissive. Nice guy, but he did a little manual examination of my penis, took some blood and urine to be checked at the lab, checked my ass for prostatitis, gave me 3 pills of Cialis, and told me about some medically approved cock rings. You probably won't be happy if that happens to you, but you may not be able to get anything more than that from anything but a specialist. I pressed my doc a little bit and he said he could refer me to a guy at the Cleveland Clinic. I'm in the process of trying to make that happen.

Ye thanks. I have a bad feeling this is going to happen to me tomorrow. I really hope it doesn't!

Has your problem improved? Mine hasn't changed substantially.

Nope, sometimes it seems like its improving a bit but I don't think it has really.

How did your visit go Provider?

It went ok thanks. He just asked me some questions and took some blood tests so nothing really happened. He said he can't really do anything until he gets the results from the blood tests which will be a week or two so I'll just have to wait until then.

I had an ultrasound scan today for my erection problems. They injected my dick with god knows what then scanned it. They didn't find anything though and said it seems normal. Looks like I'm gonna be stuck with a small dick that doesn't get fully erect.

When I found Penis Enlargement I thought it was one of the best things thats ever happened and now it looks like it's one of the worst.