stillwantmore2;290654 said:
VK. I appreciate your insight, and your perspective on things, as well as the articles, and references you post. I do think though, that you are taking a very extreme, and one sided slant on this issue. I do not recall ever saying that I was for, or advocated 30 minute or longer clamping sessions. I do usually clamp for a combined time of around 45 minutes daily, but this is a combination of multiple 15-20 minute sets. If my girth gains from clamping....first 5.75" up to 6"...then 6" to my current 6.25" are from fibrossis, and scar tissue...I'd be very surprised. I have no hard areas when flaccid, and I'm always 100% hard when erect.
Hey Swm,
My appologies. Since you posted a supportive statement after Mr.9x7.5's comment about 30 + min sessions, I assumed, that you were backing up his theory.
stillwantmore2;290654 said:
I'm not posting in an angry mindset either. I know you're not attacking me personally. You do however, seem to be 'callused', or coming from an angle of having been injured via clamping. You just come across that way in your posts with how anti-clamping you seem to be. Don't take that personally, or get upset over that...it's just how it comes across. Using a clamp in the manner that I demonstrate in my posts, and videos I have done are methods that I have personally used, and have found effective for myself. I've never said that every man who does similar will see the same or better results....and I've always advocated a very "proceed with caution, and at your own risk" approach.
I'm not 'anti-clamping' per-se. I'm just against 'extreme' exercises that have been advocated by some users, including you, and for a good portion of time, by myself.
The reason I advocated these exercises, was because I was not fully educated on the underlying biology of clamping, as such literature is non-existant over the internet. I had to sit down with several professors at my university, for whom I was doing research in the field of Urology, and discuss these issues from scratch.
The reason I backed off of clamping, was the same reason I backed off of most 'extreme' girth work. I will elaborate on the further in another post. But the gist of the argument is that if an exercise causes 'too much inflammation', then it will be counter productive.
I will go into detail about the inflammetory process and how we 'gain' through it, and I assure you, it is NOT the popular belief that cells will divide and multiply or that micro tears in the tissue will heal the cavernosa to a bigger size as is the case in bodybuilding and Muscles.
stillwantmore2;290654 said:
Using a clamp, vs. "chronic constriction" via a rubber band, metal ring, etc that is difficult to remove, and which may indeed get STUCK on the penis as cited in your above example, is an extreme circumstance, and one which I have never advocated. The only example that would come even remotely close would be when I dabbled with "ADC", or "all day clamping" which was in fact not actually clamping in the traditional sense....with 100% or more erection...it was clamp, let the erection subside to partial,
and leave the clamp on to take advantage of the faux girth, and engorgement. In theory, keeping the tissues expanded. Similar to wearing an [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]extender[/words], or length wrapping after hanging or stretching.
That's exactly what I advocate against.
It's just a matter of misinformation really. And quite a natural one. As I said, an [words=http://www.
phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] will keep the collagen extended (either in a dynamic or static stretch environement) and facilitates proliferation of the collegen fibers by a chronic exertion of a nearly constant force (within +/- 2-5% of the total force).
But this idea of keeping the penis expanded circumferentially via a clamp to apply the same principle as a [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]traction[/words] device to girth is COMPLETELY wrong. If you could apply a moderate clamp, which kept the vaso constriction under 100%, and could still keep enough blood in the cavernosa chambers to cause the circumferential fibers of the Tunica expanded for a long enough time to cause proliferation and ultimately remodelling, then your theory would be correct.
Unfortunately, such a model is not physically possible simply because of the anatomy of the penis, about which most people seem to be confused about.
The mickey mouse model of the penis which consists of a simple tri-cylindrical entity, wrapped in the Tunica and then in skin, which has an unlimited flow of blood coming in, which if even slightly constricted, will indefinitely cause engorgement, leads one to believe that if such prolonged engorgement of the
cylinders of the CC and CS is achieved, it will in turn stretch the Tunica and lead to gains. This model is at best simplistic and at worst ignorant.
The systems inherent within the penis are so complex, that they make the penis the single most complex organ in the human body.
The inflow of blood is due to vaso dilation of the arteries that deliver fresh oxygenated blood into the cavernosa chambers. This vaso dilation is mainly a function of the natural prostaglandin E1 that is secreted when one is sexually aroused. With the smooth muscle of the penis relaxed a huge influx of fresh blood floods the chambers. The many layers of collagen in the tunica have veins running in between them that deliver the blood out of the penis. With this sudden inflow of blood from the arteries, the cavernosa fills up with blood as the clearance rate is much lower than the inflow rate. As the CC's expand, the tunica expands and collapses the veins in between the layers of collagen, effectively closing MOST of the pathways of the blood out of the penis, trapping the blood in.
Certain enzymes quickly break down this PGE1, and as soon as the nervous connection signal between the brain and the penis is lost (meaning as soon as you lose mental arousal), the production of PGE1 exponentially decays and hence the arteries collapse, and since there's still small veins carrying blood out of the penis (in most men that are free of spontaneous priapisms) the collagen collapses and one loses his (or her) erection.
What happens in Clamping is that when one constricts the out flow of blood, the blood pools in the CC and in the veins running along the superficial fascia of the tunica. Since this 'clamp' has displaced a rather large volume in the penis (where the clamp is now indented into the flesh), that displaced volume, seeps out of the veins (The veins aren't solid tubes as most believe they are. They're like a mesh walled tube where many molecules including water can freely go in and out of the vein. They seep out of the veins because of hydrostatic pressure, and back into the vein because of osmotic pressure). Now the more extreme you clamp, the more the clamp will indent into the flesh and hence the larger the volume of displacement.
Now this clamping induced hydrostatic pressure is far too great for all the fluid to get back into the veins that are already filled to the max because they're constricted. This fluid diffuses across a pressure gradient, away from the veins, all across the circumference of the tunica. On one side of this fluid is the skin, and on the other side is the tunica. So this pressure, simultaneously achieves two things.
1. Push the skin outwards
2. Push the Tunica Inwards
Initially, the first happens at a much greater rate than the second. As the skin stretches to its max, any further stretch exponentially decays, while the force exerted onto the Tunica increases exponentially. (more skin is proliferated every time as a result of this stretch so that in the long term, there exists much more lose skin which can be filled with this fluid. This explains why pumpers can achieve bigger and bigger ‘faux girths’ as time goes by. It’s not their penis that is getting bigger. It’s that the skin around their penis is looser so it can be filled with more fluid. Same goes for clampers).
Through this mechanism, since the Tunica is suppressed, some veins open up, and some blood can escape, which is why after clamping at 100% for a while, you’ll notice your penis lose rigidity. So as you can see, although the penis seems thicker (because of the fluid between the skin and the Tunica), the CC chambers are actually less engorged and smaller than even a normal erection. So there is no circumferential force to chronically stretch these fibers to lead to further girth gains. Further more, this fluid and lymphatic fluid that has built up in the penis, will cause fibroblasts to proliferate type I collagen, which are much tougher to stretch and quite inelastic. In the long run, the clamper has a much less flexible tunica, which expands less with a normal erection, which is ultimately much tougher to stretch and makes gains come to a stop.
This principle exists during Clamping just as it exists during ADC/ANC. One just happens at a quicker rate than the other.
stillwantmore2;290654 said:
Again, the scare tactic type approach you seem to be taking lately, trying to cite extreme examples VK, makes me think you were personally injured by clamping incorrectly, or are bitter somehow about clamping. Clamping, if done properly...which in my mind means starting with 5-10 minute sets for the newby...and working up to 15-20 minute sets, and not staying clamped off for any longer per set before taking a break....can indeed be an effective method of permanently adding erect girth.
Tactic? What would I have to achieve from ‘scare type tactics?’ It’s not like it would make any difference to me if people clamped or not. It’s not like I’m advertising for [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]penis enlargement pills[/words], or am selling a CD containing instructions on some super fast gainer that I claim to be better than clamping.
If that was the case, you would surly be correct to deem my responses and advice against clamping highly suspect. But since, at the moment, me and my penis have not set up an entrepreneurial venture to make money, I can’t think of any good reason why I would use ‘scare tactic type approaches’ to deter the masses from such a safe and effective girth gainer. As I noted earlier, mild clamping, if done properly can have positive effects.
stillwantmore2;290654 said:
Maybe I have come across as being an advocate of "extreme clamping". I have never meant to make it seem that way. Every man (well, usually) has only one penis....you definitely do not want to injure it. Clamping, when done properly though mimicks manual constriction exercises in that you are able to "clamp off" at the base, and engorge the penis temporarily more so than a normal erection. Clamping should never totally cut off all blood flow. Any man who clamps in that manner is either clamping without studying how to do so properly, or an idiot.
That’s true to a certain extend. I agree that it does in fact imitate the same environment as the manual constriction exercises. What is different however, is the time frame in which it imitates such an environment.
Manual constrictors usually cannot induce the same amount of pressure as a clamp and don’t allow enough time (if done properly) for the fluid to seep out and collect between the skin. Even though, if one overtrains with extreme girth exercises, fluid builds up and much inflammation can occur, which is why it is of paramount importance that Penis Enlargement’ers understand that the goal at hand is NOT faux girth and fluid expansion, and that this fake girth is in fact a deterrent to actual girth/length gains.
Comparing a 15 minute Clamping session at 110% to a ULI which achieves 110% for 10 seconds, and advocating it safe by comparison, is like justifying that a man can stay under water for 15 minutes just as safely that he can hold his breath safely for 10 seconds. Both ‘mimick’ the same condition, but the extent of time in which a person is in a particular situation, can dramatically change the outcome. Sometimes, the timing can mean the difference between life and death, and sometimes, it can make the difference between gains and no gains.
Clamping at 110% as you have demonstrated in your pictures and videos shuts off nearly all blood flow in and out of the penis. Although you would still lose erection if you left your penis alone, the amount of vaso constriction you advocate is enough to achieve what I have outlined. So we’re actually saying the exact same thing. Just with different points of view.
stillwantmore2;290654 said:
Thanks for reading, and again understand that I'm not upset at you VK...we're all free to express our opinions...and opinions based on actual experience are always the most valuable. There's nothing wrong with throwing out words of caution, but maybe ease up a bit on seeming like you are totally trying to scare all and every man away from clamping all together?
I am not trying to scare anyone from clamping. Just trying to share my experience of two years of clamping with those who are considering trying it, or are wondering why they’re not gaining from all the hard work they’ve put forth.
Fact of the matter is, most people have not gained from clamping and most of them have injured themselves (with or without knowing that they’ve done it). The hype about clamping is exactly what makes it ineffective: The faux Girth.
You can find countless reports of ‘WOW ¼” GIRTH GAIN IN 2 DAYS FROM CLAMPING” all across the boards from newbies that don’t know any better than to feel that temporary girth gains from fluid build up will lead to permanent ones in the future. Excited and over enthusiastic, they feel that they can take on the world, and all they need is time to tell them that they haven’t gained anything in reality.
Still some will blame themselves and think that their penis is ‘Penis Enlargement unfriendly’ and that Penis Enlargement just wont work for them. They will wonder, if clamping is so damn great, and so many people have gained from it, why are my erections worse, and why have I not gained anything from it after 6 months of dedicated practice everyday? It’s a personal journey for one to stop claiming a bigger penis they were so convinced that they’d achieved, and look for another way that would lead to actual gains, which surely has a much slower rate of growth than the quick and easy girth expansion that happens through clamping while they watch adult entertainment and masturbating.
That being said, I should mention that I did gain from clamping myself, but more so when I was doing moderate clamping routines with plenty of rest in between, than extreme ones such as the one outlined in this thread. I should also mention that I have gained quite effectively from slow jelqs, and ULI’s. What seems to be they Key for gaining, is not necessarily any one magic exercise. But rather, the correct understanding of the Penis Enlargement methodology, being that one should strive to exercise the penis, without causing too much inflammation, and allowing much rest for the tissues.
For me, success in Penis Enlargement translates into five words: Knowledge, Patience, Discipline, Persistence, and most importantly, Self love.
If you lack any of those five, Penis Enlargement will not work for you as they all go hand in hand. If you don’t love yourself, and can’t stand your penis at the present “now”, then you can’t wait to grow, which means you’ll become impatient. When you get impatient, you lose Discipline, and you will do too much hoping to expedite the progress; hence you overtrain and put a halt to gains. If you do too little, or just the right amount, you might not gain anything for a good month or two, so you need to persist during that time. And you need knowledge to know what you’re striving towards, to stay on the right path, and to listen to your body and understand the signals it’s giving you. If you misinterpret a signal of inflammation as one of potential future gains, you will surely do against what you’re body is asking and instead of resting you will Penis Enlargement again, fearing that rest is only time lost.
When Penis Enlargement becomes a sexual Fetish, one loses sight of the goals and discipline can fade. If something feels good, it's much tougher to stop it at the appropriate time and hence it can cause one to get overtrained.
I believe, one should leave fetishes to the bedroom, when appropriate company is available. When you've achieved the Penis Enlargement gains that you've achieved, admiring it during sex is much more desireable than when trying to admire it while masturbating and watching adult entertainment. Which can result in ejaculation which is most definitely counter productive to gains, especially if done right after a Penis Enlargement session.
As they say, don't mix business with pleasure. Business being Penis Enlargement, and pleasure being enjoying the new size you've actually achieved.
and for those asking how can you tell if you’ve caused too much inflammation? Well If you shrivel, turtle and your erections are not ‘rock hard’, then you’ve overtrained. If you have a ‘hot’ penis, that means you’ve overtrained. If you have too much burst capillaries, that may be a sign as well, so you should monitor for other signs.
I say all that from around 9 years of experience in Penis Enlargement (since 1999, when I first found a Penis Enlargement guide from one of the first Penis Enlargement websites.. though I was not active in the forums until much later).
And the purpose of this post, as well as every other one I’ve made, is not to insult or discredit anyone. Rather to offer my insight into things, which are backed both by my mind (the researching mad scientist) and my penis (the poor subject of such experimental torture).
I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to convey without taking Offence. My appologies in advance if this made anyone cry. =(
Vkay
i see that alot of pornstars always have that "look", kinda like a bloated snake i guess lol.
