The __________ Complex

The __________ Complex
From Drumline Magazine

The real reason why black men are hardly ever seen in sex shops has little to do with a deep-seated respect for women. Nor is it to do with a strict moral upbringing, argues Shirley Brooks, as she goes out in search of the answers.

Dildos surround me. Dildos of various sizes, shapes and colours, battery powered vibrators, a vibrating handheld vagina. Packets containing blow-up sex dolls, novelty foreplay cards, penis shaped scented candles, 36GG mounds of white chocolate with dark chocolate nipples, bulging off the shelves. Surrounding these exhibits, walls made up of rows upon rows of videos clinically divided into specific genres.

I’m in a Soho sex shop. Two Asian men in sharp business suits and matching side partings hover around the ‘bondage’ section, complaining loudly to a shop assistant that there isn’t anything ‘dark’ enough for them. Several white men of varying ages and social backgrounds scan the aisles. Two young white women step inside to banter with the manager. People from seemingly all walks of life have walked into Pirate of Soho to buy sex toys and videos. But there is something missing.

In all the hours I’ve stood hovering around the shop floor I have witnessed the cautious entrance and swift exit of only one black man. “Black men don’t come in as often as our white customers do. And the ones that do come in don’t buy much,” I’m told by Lamar, the Congolese manager. “Black men ask for condoms, aphrodisiacs and magazines. They don’t usually buy toys.”

Earlier conversations with male friends produced the same information. Most swore to me that they had never stepped foot inside a sex shop. Solomon*, a 26-year-old Jamaican, said: ‘I’ve been in a sex shop about three times. I probably wouldn’t tell my black friends about it though.’ Another friend told me that he had been forced into one by an old girlfriend and had merely bought a jar of chocolate body paint to appease her. A third had entered the forbidden room on a dare with his friends and had not been tempted to buy. No one would admit to buying anything more shocking than a video ‘for a laugh.’

I rest my notepad on the counter next to a terrifyingly large black rubber penis. Seventeen inches long and 4-inches thick, the giant phallus dominates the shop counter, casting a heavy shadow across the white pages. I stare at my notes drawing a blank as to the reasons why black men stay away from sex shops. And then I realise that the answer is already lying on my page. Or at least the shadow cast by its full 17 inches of rubber is.

The reason many black men do not frequent, or do not admit to frequenting, Soho’s brightest and best sex shops has little to do with a deeply harboured respect for women. Nor is it to do with strict morals drummed into their heads by an older generation. The real reason is less noble and goes much deeper than one would expect. The simple fact is that sex shops sell sexual aids. And a sexual aid is the last thing that a black man needs if he is suffering from the latter stages of the __________ Complex.

Allow me to elaborate; what I call the __________ Complex is the adherence to a myth that emerged out of the twisted ideologies current brought about by the Atlantic slave trade. During slavery the legend regarding the West African __________ tribes was that their men were statuesque bucks, virile, potent, and desired by the wives of slave owners. Advertising a slave as being a __________ was a sure way of raising a large fee at the selling blocks and thus the name __________ became associated with outstanding strength and intense sexual prowess and stamina.

In the seventies, the film __________ further solidified the image of the sexually superior black buck. Contemporary black films, music videos, rap lyrics and stereotypes, all reinforce the belief that there is something saucily unique about the black male. Endowed with agility, natural rhytHydromax, and an overwhelmingly large manhood, the sexuality of black males is the stuff of cultural legend and urban myths.

The fact that the humungous dildo, standing proudly alongside the till, is black is surely not a coincidence. The myth of the raw untainted sexual potency of the black man embodied in the novelty penis is simultaneously a subject of pride and envy as well as a heavy burden for the average black man to carry between his legs.

There is evidently a lot of pressure on black men to fulfil expectations in the bedroom. The majority of the men I spoke to told me that they would never buy a sex toy for their partner as it would be an affront to their manhood and bedroom ability. Anthony*, a 22-year-old political science student felt that buying a vibrator for his girlfriend “would be saying a lot on my part that I can’t provide in bed so she needs a substitute.” Theodore, one of the shop assistants, confessed that despite making a living selling sex toys, he himself as a black man would not use a sexual aid as he had no need. Grinning broadly he informed me, “My partners are satisfied.”

Solomon summed it up for me. “Black men are supposed to be good in bed. Big dicks; good movers. There’s more pressure on a black man in the bedroom than there is for a white man. Rap music and soul singers croon about sex and how good they are in the sack so people think that we are super-studs. Some black guys even try to live up to it. Buying a dildo would be admitting defeat.” For some men it is important to fulfil the __________ image. According to Theodore, black male customers will happily purchase penis enlarger pumps, Viagra and other concoctions to “make their dick happen.”

The __________ myth has left a historical legacy of high expectations upon today’s black male. There is pressure from music, pressure from stereotypes, pressure from themselves, pressure from received folk wisdoms like, “once you go black you never go back”. References to BathmateWs as ‘Black Man’s Willies’ give a whole new take on the luxury car as a penis extension.

Such advertisements and endorsements make it even more crucial for a black man to do what it says on the packet and completely satisfy his woman in bed. With all of these pressures it’s a wonder that black men are actually brave enough to get into under the sheets.

Theodore finally serves his first Nubian customer of the day. As the solitary black man puts the condoms he has purchased into his briefcase and prepares to step out into the Soho streets his eyes meet mine. A guilty expression flitters across his face for a split second, as if he had been caught out in the middle of a lie.

Holy Shit man!

Interesting read...and what the heck is Drumline magazine?

Definitely a good read, thanks DLD

I can see what he is talking about though. For me, there is no way I would buy my girlfriend a sex vibrator/dildo, I know others disagree with me and find that they enhance sex and all that. But "I" want to be the one to satisfy her and I would feel inadequate if she had to use a device.

Well maybe I would buy her a small one so should would appreciate my size more (but definitely not anything bigger)

Originally posted by Xulf
I can see what he is talking about though. For me, there is no way I would buy my girlfriend a sex vibrator/dildo, I know others disagree with me and find that they enhance sex and all that. But "I" want to be the one to satisfy her and I would feel inadequate if she had to use a device.

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I'm in the same boat as you. Furthermore, my gf doesn't even own a dildo. She says that nothing compares to the real thing.

Gotta be hard to be a black male these days. So much expectations.
White arent expected to be endowed, so it's a more of an supprise. I think many black men want's to eliminate that Myth.

Its a very good article!

a fantastic article DLD. Definitely an eye opener as to the pressure that black people must endure in society.

LoL. Not all black men are endowed that's why.

It's always been a myth really. I've seen alot of black men naked and when I was young even I was shocked that they were my size or smaller. Have seen large ones but it is not common like the myth.

Don't you know that black people are getting smaller anyway? Black people consume alot of fast food, smoke, drugs, drink more than any other race. And yes, those things affect penis growth during puberty as well as in the future.

Okay, over the years Ive read a lot of posts at this and other pe forums discussing blacks and "stereotypes" without an actual black person's input and I hate to say from what Ive read it has been dissapointing.

I just have to say that it is fact that blacks are genetically different than whites, just as with other races such as far east, middle east, and central and south american. African-Americans are more susceptible to certain diseases, our hair is curlier, our calves are higer up on the backs of our legs, among other things. Im not speaking in a superior tone, but I think its time that we all admit to the fact that blacks as a whole are not necessarily better at sports, but we are naturally faster, quicker, and more aerobically inclined. Once we agree on that, I really dont think that the idea of blacks having larger penises is false.

I actually believe that it is true, there are so many genetic variations between races that the chance that blacks on the whole are more endowed than other races is not a myth or a simple stereotype. I really belive that the only reason that there is such a backlash about this is that in terms of popular culture it seems like blacks got the best of both worlds with athleticism and bigger penises, but that may just be the way it is. Im not accusing you guys of jealousy or racism, but Im not gonna deny the fact that in America and the world there is still an attitude against racism yet without ever giving blacks any credit or letting them have anything, which is a result of jealousy and hate.

Not too offend, but if the shoe was on the other foot, there would be no discussion about this, and lets not forget it wasnt blacks who started these claims, I belive they were formed through observation by everyone just as with the athleticism claim. It really is kind of disturbing how often and freely blacks are discussed and sometimes criticized in these forums. It really seems like the only people who care about these "myths" are those who arent black, because I know I have never talked about these things with other african-americans, but you guys seem to be unable to take your focus away from it.

Lets also not forget that in the end WHO CARES!!!??? It doesnt matter if it was swedes that could jump high or japanese with large penises, the fact is who you are is who you are and no one can change that. All of these race competition discussions are really sili and are ultimately rooted in racism. If I was born with a nine inch dick I could care less if a girl thouht I was small because I was short and white, b/c if you cant back it up whats the point?

So, come on guys until there is a official global study of all the races in terms of height, vertical, penis length, natural IQ, or whatever (which will never happen) lets just take our differences for what its worth and look at them rationally and accept the fact that we are genetically different without basing a global racial trend on our local locker room or basketball court. I mean were all in this world together and lets just let races take credit for what and who they are whether its a natural genetic trend or a sociocultural development, we all exist and try to improve, thats what counts.

Wow great read! And I'll have to stop in the next time I head into the city

z03 said:

Once we agree on that, I really dont think that the idea of blacks having larger penises is false.

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I agree, though I doubt it is a huge statistical difference. For example, "big" white guys are probably as big or bigger than "average" black guys.

I dont think, however, that it is necesarily just white guys who benefit from the attempts to dispel the "myth." Obviously, black guys who are not huge, may feel inferior for not living up to the standard.

Also, it works both ways. There is certainly an effort in the �naked people movies� industry to focus on black size and there seem to be a few token big black guys in the industry.

You point out the differences between races and it is refreshing to hear someone say that. However, in these PC times, it certainly is a slippery slope. For example, if you want to say that blacks are generally larger and more athletic in certain ways, with whites in the middle and Asians the smallest; Would you also be comfortable concluding that Asians have the highest intelligence, whites in the middle, and blacks the lowest? There is at least as much evidence supporting those claims as the penis size ones.
Lastly, I dont really care. I mean, I am comfortable with my size compared to anyone, so it doesnt bother me. As I said, its a somewhat dangerous territory to enter. For example, all these claims are used by racialist/racist groups to support their stances. White racist groups like to characterize black men as over-sexed sexual predators with big penises and small brains
( Of course this is not something I support, as I am an individualist, and even if these statistics are true: SO what? I would never use statistics to attempt to justify a perverted agenda) So would it be right to conclude that, on average, blacks have slightly larger penises and whites have slightly higher IQs? And blacks are better sprinters, but whites better endurance athletes?

bigbutnottoo said:

I agree, though I doubt it is a huge statistical difference. For example, "big" white guys are probably as big or bigger than "average" black guys.

I dont think, however, that it is necesarily just white guys who benefit from the attempts to dispel the "myth." Obviously, black guys who are not huge, may feel inferior for not living up to the standard.

Also, it works both ways. There is certainly an effort in the �naked people movies� industry to focus on black size and there seem to be a few token big black guys in the industry.

You point out the differences between races and it is refreshing to hear someone say that. However, in these PC times, it certainly is a slippery slope. For example, if you want to say that blacks are generally larger and more athletic in certain ways, with whites in the middle and Asians the smallest; Would you also be comfortable concluding that Asians have the highest intelligence, whites in the middle, and blacks the lowest? There is at least as much evidence supporting those claims as the penis size ones.
Lastly, I dont really care. I mean, I am comfortable with my size compared to anyone, so it doesnt bother me. As I said, its a somewhat dangerous territory to enter. For example, all these claims are used by racialist/racist groups to support their stances. White racist groups like to characterize black men as over-sexed sexual predators with big penises and small brains
( Of course this is not something I support, as I am an individualist, and even if these statistics are true: SO what? I would never use statistics to attempt to justify a perverted agenda) So would it be right to conclude that, on average, blacks have slightly larger penises and whites have slightly higher IQs? And blacks are better sprinters, but whites better endurance athletes?

Click to expand...

Well, I think that when it comes to intelligence, I consider that cultural and not genetic. The reason blacks are considered less intelligent in America and the world is because they have not been given the same oppurtunites as whites, asian, and so on because of slavery, the manipulation of past primitive cultures, and the stealing of Africa's resources resulting in present day third world countries. Lets not forget many of the great black inventors that rose out of the slave era without sufficient educational resources.

Yet, there is an argument that blacks athleticisim is a result of their primitive hard working culture in the warmer climate, a conditioning resulting in a genetic adaptation, but who really knows. I think the main thing that whites and europeans were blessed with was an early understanding of Christianity and a more rational view of the world, but then how do you explain Asians or the primitive Mayans and all they acclompished?

I really dont like to debate the IQ issue much though, because natural intelligence can be judged in so many different ways and can be developed and allowed to not mature as well, so natural physcial characteristics are more easily verified in my opinion, but im not saying it could not be true considering the present and history.

From my point of view, to really explain it all youd have to go back to when God seperated all humans with language at the Tower of Babylon (ill explain if asked) and go from there, but I dont know.

Whites could be better endurance athletes, which is attributed I think to white muscle twitch fibers, which I think whites have been proven to have more of as opposed to more red fast twitch fibers in blacks or other minorities. Still, there are a large number of African and mideastern minorities that excel in long distance, but just as there are variations in whites maybe there are in blacks.

In the end, I belive God created every man equal and if in His mind we would all contribute in different ways with none overall better than other than so be it. But I cant stress enough how important it is to know that no matter what race you are, who you are is who you are and you shouldnt let anyone undermine your talents or gifts.

z03 I like your points but I think you have contradicted yourself. You and I both agree that the races are genetically different and that would not exclude any one particular part of us (logically), so then how would this exclude the brain?
It is foolish to believe that blacks and whites differ genetically but somehow our penises or brains somehow miraculously remain 'equal'.
Again the question, who cares? Well I think it's interesting, and stereotypes affect everyone, so I think y'all should care.
And, about blacks trying to get rid of the myth, well the blacks guys i know don't usually mention size, but look at the entertainment industry, they constantly are mentioning and making jokes about how big they are and all the girls they get to screw.
Welcome to the board by the way z03.

quijjiboo said:

z03 I like your points but I think you have contradicted yourself. You and I both agree that the races are genetically different and that would not exclude any one particular part of us (logically), so then how would this exclude the brain?
It is foolish to believe that blacks and whites differ genetically but somehow our penises or brains somehow miraculously remain 'equal'.
Again the question, who cares? Well I think it's interesting, and stereotypes affect everyone, so I think y'all should care.
And, about blacks trying to get rid of the myth, well the blacks guys i know don't usually mention size, but look at the entertainment industry, they constantly are mentioning and making jokes about how big they are and all the girls they get to screw.
Welcome to the board by the way z03.

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You are right that we should care, I was just saying that if it is either one way or the other it doesnt change what you have.

In terms of dispelling the "myths" or whatever you want to call it, why should blacks have to refute a trend of large penises, but no one tries to make asians refute their intelligence and work ethic? This article I think tries to vail a jealous, racist, and ignorant motive with a supposed sympathy towards blacks and "social pressures," thats ridiculous.

Nobody that is black cares if you are black and not athletic, "hip", or endowed. Being black is not about being athletic and all these other things that (no offense) whites and other people think its about. Being black is an understanding, a common unspoken bond between people who have faced discrimination, hatred, and jealously and share the same experiences. Whoever wrote this article has no idea what being black is about or is a very confused self-hating african-american.

We as african-americans, dont identify ourselves by these things that people just cannont stop focusing on and obsessing over. Our respect for ourselves and our race is not based in the admiration of those outside of us.

For me, growing up in the suburbs I was always held up by my peers to be athletic, ripped, strong, fast, and jump high but whenever this would happen I would just smile and not say anything. Honestly, I never minded this because Im proud of how blacks are well represented in athletics, but it didnt verify my "blackness." My brother has almost no athletic ability, but that doesnt make him a "sellout" or not black. The only time that happens is when a black person actively tries to seperate themselves from other blacks (example: refusing to marry a black woman) in order to not be considered apart of the negative stereotypes, but hey you gotta take the good along with the bad and stay proud.

So if we are more athletic and have larger penises, so be it, and honestly people who arent black really need to stop worrying about it. Well deal with it just fine and we dont need or want others sympathy because its obvious there isnt a level playing field genetically between races, so just accept it and work on what you got whether its speed, smarts, or whatever.

To sum up, it wasnt too long ago that no matter how long our penises were or how high we could jump, you were still just another dumb nigger. So, dont think that we are overly concerned with how others see us, we know who we are and we celebrate it, and we dont need anyone telling us what it is that is or isnt our own.

This is gonna spark some debate, but I honestly all of this discussion is based in the fact that in the past whites could not get away with claiming superiority over all races and now and in the past with (for example) blacks gaining prominence in music, athletics, and even sex, they now want to "emphasize" the existence of a level playing field in order to avoid having to secede to anyone, rather in light of tolerance as most assume.

z03 said:

In terms of dispelling the "myths" or whatever you want to call it, why should blacks have to refute a trend of large penises, but no one tries to make asians refute their intelligence and work ethic? This article I think tries to vail a jealous, racist, and ignorant motive with a supposed sympathy towards blacks and "social pressures," thats ridiculous.

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Well as far as I know Asians don't go on TV continually bragging about their intelligence.
I don't know the mindset of the population of black Americans, but I can get a good sense of it through black entertainment, and the idea of being well endowed seems to be common.

My point is that since this "myth" is being propagated by blacks, then how is talking about this "telling you who you are"??

My post was not an attack. I think black people have far more benefits than any other ethnic races and it's true. You don't have asian, middle eastern or other ethnic races funding MILLION OF DOLLARS in charities for the black race only, other races do not have equal opportunities in jobs, other races don't have human rights leaders that defend and fight for blacks, other races don't have equal educational opportunities, other races don't have a whole month dedicated to them.

I honestly find that fucking sickening. And guess what? It is racist to say something against blacks. I see black kids picking on a white kid because he's white and nobody won't say anything. They also can get away calling other races racial slurs yet when another race doesn't use a racial slur but does mention something a little stereotypic about blacks, then that person is racist (ESPenis EnlargementCIALLY ON TV).

I notice this everyday and I am fucking mad. All I want is some REAL EQUALITY (yes, that is alot to ask for) but when you see blacks complaining that they don't have enough or they want this and want that, when they are really getting more benefits than any other race (even whites) it really pisses me off -- since most of them are not even grateful.

And that whole hip-hop machismo image promotes the fact that black people are superior to other races and this is no joke. Why is it that these black kids think they are better than other races nowadays?

I'm not saying that everybody is like that but alot of fucking black people are. I grew up facing so much racism from black people and I find black people to be more racist than others more than any others. I also think it's idiotic that White America so strongly supports the whole black thing without giving limitations. White America will allow black people to say almost anything and when somebody says something about blacks, they get jumped by the world when it should be equally frowned upon.

No, I'm not saying let's all diss black people, I'm saying it's not fair for many black people to get respect if they cannot show it. We need more respect towards each other.

z03 said:

To sum up, it wasnt too long ago that no matter how long our penises were or how high we could jump, you were still just another dumb nigger. So, dont think that we are overly concerned with how others see us, we know who we are and we celebrate it, and we dont need anyone telling us what it is that is or isnt our own.

This is gonna spark some debate, but I honestly all of this discussion is based in the fact that in the past whites could not get away with claiming superiority over all races and now and in the past with (for example) blacks gaining prominence in music, athletics, and even sex, they now want to "emphasize" the existence of a level playing field in order to avoid having to secede to anyone, rather in light of tolerance as most assume.

Click to expand...

I think it's great to celebrate who you are without attacking others. Black people are the ones that show off the whole penis myth... I don't think people go point and say look "black people got big penises". I agree with quijjiboo that the "myth" is being propagated by blacks as well as superiority through hip hop culture and physical characteristics.

Don't even attempt to label me racist because I've come across too many of these kinds of black people to know what the whole deal is. I know not every black person is like that (obviously), just like not every black person is hung or whatever but the way media affects the black audience promotes that kind of superiority attitude.

I'm not trying to disprove the whole myth by making false statements because I'm "jealous" or whatever. I really despise the whole superiority attitude that a huge bulk of black people really carry around with them and it's offensive to me.

I've seen enough black penises in the gym to know that the hung ordeal is overdone -- why was it that 1 white person was bigger than the other 4 blacks and why weren't they 4 blacks SUPenis EnlargementR HUNG compared to ther other whites who were really the same size?

I believe in individualism and I don't really believe your statement "no matter how long our penises were or how high we could jump, you were still just another dumb nigger". So does having a big dick makes you a better person? Please don't tell me you fall under the category of what I was just talking about.

I fucking came from a PISS POOR family that lived worse than most black people. Three of us slept in the same room and we lived with crappy plumbing, broken walls, roaches and rats. It's fucking offensive when black people complain about their lack of whatever when my family had jackshit and had to work our way up with no complaint and unfair gov't treatments.

Oh yea the whole black people are getting smaller b/c they eat lots of fast food wasn't racist, it's true -- since McDonalds have start marketing worldwide, statistics of disease and health problems have went up in other countries. That shit ain't healthy and I honestly believe smoking, drugs, bad diet effects your size -- just look at fat people who smoke if you don't believe me.

z03 said:

Okay, over the years Ive read a lot of posts at this and other pe forums discussing blacks and "stereotypes" without an actual black person's input and I hate to say from what Ive read it has been dissapointing.

I just have to say that it is fact that blacks are genetically different than whites, just as with other races such as far east, middle east, and central and south american. African-Americans are more susceptible to certain diseases, our hair is curlier, our calves are higer up on the backs of our legs, among other things. Im not speaking in a superior tone, but I think its time that we all admit to the fact that blacks as a whole are not necessarily better at sports, but we are naturally faster, quicker, and more aerobically inclined. Once we agree on that, I really dont think that the idea of blacks having larger penises is false.

I actually believe that it is true, there are so many genetic variations between races that the chance that blacks on the whole are more endowed than other races is not a myth or a simple stereotype. I really belive that the only reason that there is such a backlash about this is that in terms of popular culture it seems like blacks got the best of both worlds with athleticism and bigger penises, but that may just be the way it is. Im not accusing you guys of jealousy or racism, but Im not gonna deny the fact that in America and the world there is still an attitude against racism yet without ever giving blacks any credit or letting them have anything, which is a result of jealousy and hate.

Not too offend, but if the shoe was on the other foot, there would be no discussion about this, and lets not forget it wasnt blacks who started these claims, I belive they were formed through observation by everyone just as with the athleticism claim. It really is kind of disturbing how often and freely blacks are discussed and sometimes criticized in these forums. It really seems like the only people who care about these "myths" are those who arent black, because I know I have never talked about these things with other african-americans, but you guys seem to be unable to take your focus away from it.

Lets also not forget that in the end WHO CARES!!!??? It doesnt matter if it was swedes that could jump high or japanese with large penises, the fact is who you are is who you are and no one can change that. All of these race competition discussions are really sili and are ultimately rooted in racism. If I was born with a nine inch dick I could care less if a girl thouht I was small because I was short and white, b/c if you cant back it up whats the point?

So, come on guys until there is a official global study of all the races in terms of height, vertical, penis length, natural IQ, or whatever (which will never happen) lets just take our differences for what its worth and look at them rationally and accept the fact that we are genetically different without basing a global racial trend on our local locker room or basketball court. I mean were all in this world together and lets just let races take credit for what and who they are whether its a natural genetic trend or a sociocultural development, we all exist and try to improve, thats what counts.

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Oh yea, might I add.

I don't think white people leveled their playing field because they saw alot of black people rising in the entertainment industry and whites didn't want to be embarassed.

Why do you think the US supports causes in Africa? To level the playing field? No... It's because society is appreciating black people more and you oughta be proud of that rather than turn the whole thing around.

GREAT posts lonerj!!!! NO I´m not racist!! BUT I think lonerj is so right about that.... Yeah it´s right, the blacks have a bad history, and I´m sory for that, BUT I don´t have ANYTHING to do with that! Nor have they! And nor their parents or grandparents.... that was in the PAST! I think almost EVERY culture had a bad past, but they aren´t crying about it.... they say fuck it and move on... but not the blacks... I don´t really care about the skin color (my best friend is black by the way) but how do I call them?? I mean yeah afro-american is politically correct! Yeah I live in Austria (thats in Europe.... ) how do I call them?? They don´t have nothing to do with america! Yeah their roots are Africa, ok well but WE ALL have the same roots if you say so.... Ok we had Neger (German word for Nigger), NO ONE use that (and that´s good), then we had Schwarzer (German word for black guy), then Farbiger (German word for colored guy) and thats wrong too.... well HOW DO I CALL THEM NOW???? They call themselves NIGGAS, call "us" whities or whitebread, or white boy, that´s OK, but if we call them black they attack us and say we are racist and how bad their past was etc.... WTF!????!! Last week, I had a conversation about that with a friend of mine (a black woman), she is cool, but when we talked about that topic she attacked me and was soooo stubborn! I don´t get it..... Please don´t get me wrong, I don´t have ANYTHING against black people (I love black music (Hip Hop, Rap, R&B) and I love Basketball (well I don´t like the whit guys because they are unspectacular.... )) ) so don´t get me wrong!
Well.... that´s it....

C YA!

I'm hesitant to join this thread b/c it seems as though emotion has started taking over some of the posts, and people aren't expressing themselves in as a mature manner as they could be. Not to mention z03 seems to be on his own here so far, and most likely feels attacked. Btw, z03 I believe you to be very articulate, and you have yet to lose your cool over this, that is very respectable, but from what I have read, you have a very racist tone towards all other races.

We all have to remember that this is a debate, and most likely in the end people are going to have to agree to disagree. But of course, I have to stick my nose into this.

z03 said:

I think its time that we all admit to the fact that blacks as a whole are not necessarily better at sports, but we are naturally faster, quicker, and more aerobically inclined. Once we agree on that, I really dont think that the idea of blacks having larger penises is false.

I actually believe that it is true.

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I do agree with you on this, but are there any genetic traits where blacks are inferior to whites or other races? I know that others have posted what they thought the answer to that question is, but I would like to hear your opinion.

z03 said:

Im not accusing you guys of jealousy or racism, but Im not gonna deny the fact that in America and the world there is still an attitude against racism yet without ever giving blacks any credit or letting them have anything, which is a result of jealousy and hate.

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I disagree. I think that blacks are getting a lot of credit for their contributions in all aspects of life. Not only in sports and entertainment but for their work in business, church, medicine, politics, etc. You have to realize, not every great achievement, is publicly given credit so the whole world knows. There have been many great achievements by whites, asians, mexicans, europeans, etc that they have not been given the due credit.

z03 said:

Well, I think that when it comes to intelligence, I consider that cultural and not genetic. The reason blacks are considered less intelligent in America and the world is because they have not been given the same oppurtunites as whites, asian, and so on because of slavery, the manipulation of past primitive cultures, and the stealing of Africa's resources resulting in present day third world countries. Lets not forget many of the great black inventors that rose out of the slave era without sufficient educational resources.

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I agree and disagree here. I don't know if you are allowed to pick and choose what is genetic and what is cultural based on whether it will fit your argument. The good old debate of nature vs nurture...But you cannot deny that intelligence is passed down in some form or another. If two people are brought up in identical conditions, most likely one will be more intelligent than another. Where did the extra intelligence come from? Obviously genetics. I do think that nurturing does have something to do with intelligence, but only as a guide on how to use it. Nurturing gives you direction, and the ability to tap into it, but all in all, if you aren't born with intelligence, nurturing won't be all that helpful.

On to the next part of the quote...I agree blacks have not had it easy, and everyone knows that they were suppressed. But name me one culture that wasn't? People of the world regard the Jews as a very intelligent culture, yet they had some of the worst things you could imagine done to them, much worse in my opinion than any other culture. The Irish were considered just as low on the social scale as blacks were when they initially came to America due to the potato famine. Like it or not every culture has gone through hardships, the key is moving forward and not looking backwards.

At this time blacks are still able to get an education. They may not have the best schools, or the newest books, but the ability to get an education is out there. And this whole thing about black people not getting sufficient funds isn't totally true. The ones who aren't able to get the funds are mainly the poorer inner city folks. That is not 'only' black people. There are plenty of whites who go to equally as crappy schools.

z03 said:

I really dont like to debate the IQ issue much though, because natural intelligence can be judged in so many different ways and can be developed and allowed to not mature as well, so natural physcial characteristics are more easily verified in my opinion, but im not saying it could not be true considering the present and history.

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While I did agree with your original statements about blacks being quicker, faster, jump higher, more well endowed, those too are not easily verified (as you said yourself no study will ever be done). It is your opinion but still is not fact

z03 said:

Being black is not about being athletic and all these other things that (no offense) whites and other people think its about. Being black is an understanding, a common unspoken bond between people who have faced discrimination, hatred, and jealously and share the same experiences.

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I fit that description perfectly, other than the fact that I'm not black. I'm pretty sure that almost EVERYONE would fit into that definition in some way or another. Granted, I have not shared the same experiences as you. But you have not also shared the exact same experiences as every other black person.

z03 said:

So if we are more athletic and have larger penises, so be it, and honestly people who arent black really need to stop worrying about it. Well deal with it just fine and we dont need or want others sympathy because its obvious there isnt a level playing field genetically between races, so just accept it and work on what you got whether its speed, smarts, or whatever.

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That statement is blatantly racist and self-promoting

z03 said:

This is gonna spark some debate, but I honestly all of this discussion is based in the fact that in the past whites could not get away with claiming superiority over all races and now and in the past with (for example) blacks gaining prominence in music, athletics, and even sex, they now want to "emphasize" the existence of a level playing field in order to avoid having to secede to anyone, rather in light of tolerance as most assume.

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see above.

Side note: there is much more to life than music, athletics, and sex



lonerj and playa7- I understand that this is a heated debate, but don't lose your cool, it doesn't help in the points you are trying to make