Andractim is my last hope...

DH, I'm here buddy, sorry for being a stranger, been going through some things, no excuse though. I've been keeping up with you though, still inspired by your dedication to Penis Enlargement and to updating us. The verdict is still out with me about the Andractim, I've been through one tube and I was hoping to see something pretty significant at this point. I swear the more I study this, it has to work if done long enough (if the info. is valid)! Maybe it's just slower than we think, afterall, even during puberty the growth was so slow that it was not noticeable. I'm going to keep going, maybe even re-order once my supply is gone, to see if it needs to be done for a longer period of time for some people to see results. I'm sure people differ when it comes to how quickly the DHT causes up-regulation of the receptors, but apparently it inevitably does. Plus I look forward to the burn of it now, it stings a bit sometimes because of the alcohol in it, but I'm starting to like it!
As for the Bathmate, I've been pretty consistent but I did miss a few days becasue my mind hasn't been right. I gradually build up the intensity throughout the 20 min. set and it is no longer even the least bit uncomfortable at max. pressure anymore, and I hardly get any red spots or excessive fluid. I have gotten some comments about it growing, but she knows I use the Bathmate, so it may be in her head. I haven't measured un-pumped girth in a while, so I can't tell if I've had any permanent girth gains.
Keep up the hard work, and I'll try to be better about my posts!

Dford

No worries Dford. Do you have any articles in particular about up-regulation? I have studied physiology in college, and as far as I know, the more you administer a drug/hormone the more the cell down-regulates; this phenomenon explains why people can improve their alcohol tolerance. However, if you have read something that indicates that DHT receptor upregulate as a consequence of long term exposure (anything more than 4 week would be long term in my book), then I would like to check it out. Most of what I have read indicates that cycling is key (3 weeks on, 1 week off, etc.).

Well, as for me... my high intensity workouts certainly taxed the shit outta my penis. Foreskin scar started spreading, with more discoloration to boot. I don't think high intensity workouts are worth the risk... my penis has not showed any signs of permanent growth and I am legitimately afraid of having the same size cock and it just looking deformed... So, I am going to try something low intensity, every other day. If that doesn't work, then my options will be running thin...

I took Day 12 off, but did apply 5 grams of DHT.

Day 13 of Phase 3:

10 minute Bathmate workout at 125-130 mm pressure. Absolutely no fluid retention. Did a 10 minute slow, concentrated jelq (3-4 second reps, and really focusing on feeling the blood move) at 50-70% erection (I usually do 70-90%). Applied 5 grams of DHT afterward.

Day 14 of Phase 3:

Scheduled day off, though I will continue to apply 5 grams of DHT. My flaccid feels good today - 4 3/8". I am also applying Vitamin K creme, MSM creme, and Arnica Oil to alleviate discoloration and heal the foreskin scar.

DH, I've seen it stated that the best way to promote androgen receptor up-regulation is the administration of the androgen itself. Here's one link that is pretty detailed.
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/androgen-receptor-regulation.htm
This link seems to try to debunk the common thought about down regulation occuring, but I've seen it in a few other abstracts of expriments, I'll try to find those again since they seem more scientific and less speculative.

I also studied physiology, anatomy, etc. in college, my degree is in exercise science, and I have always thought that down regulation occurs as well. It seems counter-intuitive for up regulation to occur, but if you read the above link carefully, the author seems to make sense, but again, this article in particular seems speculative. The scientific abstracts that I saw stated that up regulation occurs in a very matter of fact manner, as if it's a known fact though, so those should shed some light on it when I find them.

Now for the complicated part: I read in another forum that it is speculated that Andractim, being only 2.5% concentration, can not provide enough DHT because of absorbtion limitations. In other words, only so much of a topical can be absorbed, so the lower concentration Andractim (compared to usual 10% concentration DHT gel used in all the transgender studies) may not provide enough actual DHT per volume of gel in an application. If absorbtion is the issue, then up or down regulation won't even come into play yet. I don't know what I think conclusively about this, but there could be ways to improve absorbtion, such as several applications throughout the day in intervals, or possibly the use of a micro needling roller like I mentioned in an earlier post, or mixing the Andractim with DMSO. What are your thoughts on absorbtion, any insight? Is there any way to test absorbtion, other than trial and error? I've also read about others putting the Andractim on flaccid vs. erect, do you think it matters? The concept is that when erect, the skin is thinner (I'm not sure how that's possible though). There is also discussion about the pores being open vs. closed.

On a side note, several topical Penis Enlargement gels contain L-arginine, which we know is good for NO production and penis health, what are your thoughts on mixing the contents of an arginine capsule in with Andractim? There are several questions that go along with this: would it be safe (are the capsules pure enough), does it only exert it's effects systemically (could you just swallow the capsules to get the same effect), would the absorbtion of the arginine be problematic as well? So many unanswered questions about these things! I wish there were more true experiments on this stuff specifically geared towards Penis Enlargement, but I guess docs and scientists don't want to put their reputations on the line by doing so.

Anyway, let's keep plugging away until we figure this thing out!

Dford

This research is priceless

Guys, just my two cents.

Firslty, you can buy pure arginine powder that tends to work well for me. I mix it in with carrot juice or the like. You can also buy AAKG or Citriline. RED has some posts about this in the supplements section.

Secondly, you might be right about the quantity of DHT actually being absorbed. Have you tried alternating on the different area's of the penis on which you rub in the cream at different times of the day? For instance, if you want to work with the Bathmate, how about rubbing it just on the base? If, you are going to be doing stretching, then rub just on the underside, or upside, or on the head of the penis? Alternating, might solve the problem of absorption, or the pores becoming too accustomed to it and blocking absorption.

Also, if you use a heat pad, water bottle, or cloth, dipped in hot water to warm up around the penis, for an extended period of time, you might achieve two things - One, the chambers, tunica, and Lig might become susceptible to a little more stretching. Two, the pours might be more open to absorbing the full or larger portion of the cream. You might even want to dab a few drops of tea tree oil on your fingers, then rub it into your penis, before you apply the andactrim.

Lastly, I wanted to ask if you guys have been edging at all? DH, you've said that sometimes, when you are horny, you've clamped, saw the penis enlarge to beyond your normal, then you have a larger hang in the morning? If you are able to edge at the same time for more than half n hour, you'll then be able to burn more of your natural Test to DHT in the penis. This might help with up-regulation, as well as giving you more pump. If you can do this daily, whilst on the cream, you might get a greater gain.

I don't have any links, just a crap load of research I've been doing.

Dford:

I am not certain as to whether DMSO would be beneficial. Yes, DMSO works wonders as a transdermal carrier, however, the DHT needs to bind to receptor sites of the cells... what if DMSO draws DHT into the bloodstream?

I usually apply DHT and jelq it in using latex gloves; anywhere between 60-90% erect. Don't know if it would have a difference... So many variables!

I do have 70% DMSO, so I may experiment with it and my DHT application tonight.

Jseses:

I was edging for a bit, but my penis is super finicky and I have had to switch to lower intensity workouts to prevent skin damage. For now, I am sticking to low intensity, short duration workouts every other day till my skin gets better. Perhaps I can pick up regular edging again, but can't do clamped edging as it certainly caused my scar discoloration. BTW, clamped edging or regular edging only provided a brief pump - but no permanent gains.

Have you guys noticed any drawbacks of using Andactrim? Acne? hair line receding?

This is turing into chemistry class

jseses;383076 said:

Have you guys noticed any drawbacks of using Andactrim? Acne? hair line receding?

Click to expand...

None. And I have a strong family history of male pattern baldness. My hairline is still as solid and thick as it was when I started.

DH, I've been finding some good stuff about topical L-arginine, I'm going to try to mix some in with my Andractim. Check out some of these things, I'll just cut and paste them so you don't have to go to a bunch of links.
___________________


EXAMPLE 3

In a 54 year old man with a history of impotence administration of 1.5 g L-arginine daily in the form of oral capsules combined with twice daily administration of a penetrating cream containing L-arginine hydrochloride (15% w/v) and sodium chloride (10% w/v) directly to the penis for 7 days brought initial relief from the symptoms of impotence and allowed the subject to resume normal sexual activity.
_______________
4. A method of promoting hair growth comprising: Delivering L-arginine hydrochloride to a selected area of the skin where hair growth is desired by topically applying to the selected area of skin where hair growth is desired a delivery vehiclecomprising the L-arginine hydrochloride at a concentration of 0.25% to 25% by weight, wherein the L-arginine hydrochloride is contained in a package selected from the group consisting of liposomes, emulsions of collagen, collagen peptides andcombinations thereof, wherein the delivery vehicle further comprises an ion donor selected from the group consisting of sodium chloride, choline chloride, potassium chloride, lithium chloride and magnesium chloride and mixtures thereof, and said iondonor is present in an amount sufficient to create a high ionic strength environment able to cause the L-arginine hydrochloride to migrate from the delivery vehicle to the skin where the delivery vehicle is applied, wherein (i) said ion donorconcentration in the delivery vehicle is 10% to 90% by weight when the concentration of L-arginine hydrochloride in the delivery vehicle is 0.25% to below 5% by weight, (ii) said ion donor concentration in the delivery vehicle is 5% to 80% by weight whenthe concentration of L-arginine hydrochloride in the delivery vehicle is 5% to 15% by weight, and (iii) said ion donor concentration in the delivery vehicle is 5% to 50% by weight when the concentration of L-arginine hydrochloride in the delivery vehicleis greater than 15% to 25% by weight.

___________

There are several other articles I've found that indicate that topical arginine is effective for increasing blood flow locally, but it's more effective if you put it in a biohazardous environment so that it promotes the arginine to travel to a the less hostile environment, the skin. What this means is, if you mix the arginine with salt, for example, the high salt concentration of the mixture is considered "hazardous" to the arginine and it will seek out a less hazardous environment when available, such as the skin. Also, many of the ingredients in most lotions and creams also promote the arginine to enter the skin, so it may be as simple as mixing some in with a common lotion and applying to the penis. There is a ton of info. on this, just google topical arginine and you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm going to try mixing the contents of a 500mg arginine capsule into my applications of Andractim to see what happens. I may also make a mixture of a base oil (like vit E), salt, and arginine to compare the results. I'll keep you posted.

Dford

Sounds good, Dford. I have been applying 70% DMSO after jelqing in my 5 grams of DHT. It might be helping, but its too early to tell.

That's great, DH! Now we can eleminate the absorption issue from this experiment. I mixed up some saline solution, emu oil, and arginine and applied it yesterday. I think I could feel something going on down there, but too early for me to tell. The saline creates that "biohazardous" environment and emu oil is supposed to have excellent penetrating ability, so I'm hoping it'll deliver the arginine. I also mixed some arginine directly with my Andractim last night, but couldn't tell if it made any difference.

Dford

How are you guys going for gains, libido? Also, how long was it before your order for andractim was processed? It's been 2 days for me, I haven't heard anything from them.

J, I think I speak for both DH and I when I say the verdict is still out about the gains from Andractim. I can't tell much about my libido, I'm always a horny bastard! They don't send shipment notification so your order may be ok. Be sure that you use the same address for shipping as the one from your credit card though, that held up my order and I had to re-order because of it. It'll be good to have another mind on this Andractim thing though, so chime in with your input.

Dford

All my research seems to lead to the burning of DHT in the penis that throws the growth on over drive. I plan on applying it 15 minutes before doing an edging session. Will try to work my edging session upto about an hour each time. Read somewhere that edging for greater than 30 minutes will really get the juices flowing. This is when the body starts to burn Test in your penis to DHT. That's when the Androgen receptors will become most active. So, the dht from the cream plus the body production, should equal some great gains. This ballooning is what I believe will give the greatest gains. I'm backing that up with some leech oil, that will hopefully help boost test production in the body.

All the best guys! I'll let you know when mine arrives.

Day 15 of Phase 3 (05.29):

Did 10 minute Bathmate workout at 130 mm pressure followed by 10 minute jelq at 50-70%. First day experimenting with 5 grams DHT + DMSO.

Day 16 of Phase 3:

Day off. Applied 5 grams DHT + DMSO.

Day 17 of Phase 3:

Unscheduled day off. Applied 5 grams of DHT + DMSO.

Day 18 of Phase 3 (today):

10 minute Bathmate (always do a 4 minute warm-up now and it soooo helps!), 10 minute 50-70% jelq, 5-7 grams DHT (finished off my first tube) + DMSO.

DMSO impression:

Possibly helps, still too early to tell. Immediately upon application, the flakes that usually precipitate from the DHT drying are immediately produced... which indicates that there is some kind of chemical that is not soluble, even with DMSO... don't know what this means exactly.

Ordered a Silver ROP to see if it can help me get killer morning wood back and general assistance with Penis Enlargement/testosterone improvements. Perhaps the additional testosterone will synergistically enhance the DHT....?

Have you tried applying the DHT cream, then applying some heat to the penis? The flakes might absorb with an increase in temp, plus the pores will be open to take anything in. I get the feeling that this dht cream works better, when there is an abundance of test in the body already.

jseses;383531 said:

Have you tried applying the DHT cream, then applying some heat to the penis? The flakes might absorb with an increase in temp, plus the pores will be open to take anything in. I get the feeling that this dht cream works better, when there is an abundance of test in the body already.

Click to expand...

Gettimg the pores open to absorb the cream sounds like the way to go. Maybe even have a heat lamp on you while training to help with absorption.

Day 19 of Phase 3 (06.02):

Scheduled day off. Applied 5 grams of DHT + DMSO prior to bed.

Day 20 of Phase 3:

10 minute Bathmate session at 130 mm. Felt really horny so I did a 25 minute edge session. Applied 5 grams DHT + DMSO after and then went to sleep.

Day 21 of Phase 3:

Day off. Missed DHT application.

Day 22: of Phase 3 (06.05):

My ROP arrived today! Also, I received my order of 100% silicone gel, which was recommended for scar tissue.

Did a 10 minute Bathmate session at 130 mm. 10 minute light jelq, plan on applying DHT + DMSO prior to bed.

The tingling sensation from the ROP is very subtle. I plan on wearing it all day except during showers/baths. I'll keep you guys posted on my impressions. A positive sign would be morning would frequency and intensity improvements. Right now, my morning wood isn't that great.

Douglas Hamlin;384080 said:

The tingling sensation from the ROP is very subtle. I plan on wearing it all day except during showers/baths. I'll keep you guys posted on my impressions. A positive sign would be morning would frequency and intensity improvements. Right now, my morning wood isn't that great.

Click to expand...

I was just thinking about the ROP and your descriptions is right on target. Lately I have been waking with morning erections, I am attributing it to kegels and BathMating.