And Finally After Two Years>>> Vkay Gains!!!

V

Vaseline_Knight

0
Hey everyone.

I haven't had too much of a presence at [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MoS[/words] over the past several weeks.

As you know, in I tried a 7 day on, zero day off routine for 5 weeks with no gains and I got lured into the whole IPR protocol. I decided to take an extended break from Penis Enlargement and it served me really well. I didn't 'gain' any size from my rest but mentally I got alot more relaxed and instead of feeling like I was missing out on potential gains by not Penis Enlargement'ing, I viewed the break as a strategic step in furthering my Penis Enlargement career. More details here :Results of 5 weeks of Clamping Everyday with minimal Rest

I took a break on October 22nd, and was planning on deconditioning for two months. Every night, when I was checking my emails/internet I would turn on my air heater (I don't know what you call it, its a basic room heating fan I bought at homedepot). I've put it under my desk around a foot or so away from my penis and It gets my penis QUITE hot. I leave it on for a couple of minutes till I 'feel it getting too hot' and I cool off. This kinda helped me stay 'hung' as the heat treatment gives the same hang as post Penis Enlargement session.

Anyways, 25 days passed and I decided to give this whole IPR thing a try. only 2 weeks, and I know already that I wont be able to Penis Enlargement during December and half of january, so that would serve as a second deconditioning period.

BEL measurement was 18.2 cm. I pushed the ruler as far as it would go and straightened my dick with a maximum erection so I wouldn't lose length in my upward curve.

Here's what I did:

1)Thursday November 16th

Warm up using heater for 10 minutes,
hanged 5 lbs SD for 62 minutes. <--- felt no fatigue.
Warm up / cool down for 10 minutes
[words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words]'ed while wearing a cock ring for 2 hours.
This was amazing as I had no circulation problems and no discomfort.
I ADC'ed by wearing the ring (cushion model E) for the rest of the day around 5-6 horus.

2 days complete rest. Meaning I didn't touch my dick. (I used to chop sticks to hold my dick while Penis Enlargementing.:blush: )

2)Sunday November 19th

Warm up
Hanged 8 lbs SD for 42 minutes, <--- felt a little fatigue but mainly discomfort lead me to cut my hang time short.
150 jelqs
warm down
No [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words], just ADC'ed with ring for 5 hours.

2 Days rest.
At he end of the 2nd day of rest I went back to the ruler not expecting to see any gains as my dick really didn't look or feel any bigger.

BPenis EnlargementL Measured: 18.5 cm. :O :O :O 3 millimeter GAIN!!

3)Wednesday November 22nd
Warm up
Hanged 8 lbs SD for 62 minutes, <--- felt a good amount of fatigue in the root
150 jelqs
warm down
2 hours [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] with ring, and ADC'ed with ring for 5 hours.



4) Saturday November 25th
Warm up
Hanged 9 lbs SD for 62 minutes, <--- felt a good amount of fatigue in the root
150 jelqs + 10 minute Clamping set <---- felt sooo much fatigue on the CC portion of the tunica. My dick was sore to the touch and was covered with little red spots.
warm down
2 hours [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] with ring, and ADC'ed with ring for 5 hours.


2 days rest.

I measured today. BPenis EnlargementL was right at 18.9-19.0 cm:O :O :O :O

That's an overall gain of 0.8 cm in 2 weeks!!!


I'll be doing my final session tonight.
And will [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] for a full week or two after my two days of rest. Hopefully these are permenant gains.

Vkay.
 
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Reactions: EVO
I'm taking decon right now. I think I will start on the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/penis-enlargement-newbie-forum/1597-dlds-first-routine-i-gained-2-inches-with-this-routine-full-tutorial.html]newbie routine[/words] w/ [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] for all of march, and see how it goes.

Nice gains!
 
goldmember said:
I'm taking decon right now. I think I will start on the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/penis-enlargement-newbie-forum/1597-dlds-first-routine-i-gained-2-inches-with-this-routine-full-tutorial.html]newbie routine[/words] w/ [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] for all of march, and see how it goes.

Nice gains!
Click to expand...

Thanks
and that sounds great. Try to incorprate the IPR protocol and see how you gain for the first two weeks. If you don't gain anything then you can start doing whatever you want, but I'm almost positive you, in particular, will have great gains.

how much did you gain from just resting?
 
Kal-el said:
Congrats on the gains Vaseline!
Click to expand...

Thanks buddy.


Oh one thing I forgot to mention is that my Bone Pressed Flacid Stretch Length has gone to 7 3/4th or 19.6 cm. Interesting that I've gained more BPenis EnlargementL than BPFSL.?:( ?:( ?:(
 
Keep us posted VK! soundin' good. I'd like to see detailed info on all the work-outs and rest.
As you know I gained from a 6week no rest girth period, gains and pump started to decrease so now i'm on length routine/girth proliferation.
I'm currently hanging with some [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] and jelqing ANC for Girth proliferation.
I think I'll try out the protocol for length.
 
wow awesome vk!! its great to see that experienced vets can still gain pretty quick. it is extremely important that you spent the required time adsing to keep those gains permanent. what do you use for [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ads[/words]?
 
gimmegirth said:
Keep us posted VK! soundin' good. I'd like to see detailed info on all the work-outs and rest.
As you know I gained from a 6week no rest girth period, gains and pump started to decrease so now i'm on length routine/girth proliferation.
I'm currently hanging with some [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] and jelqing ANC for Girth proliferation.
I think I'll try out the protocol for length.
Click to expand...


sure will.
It'd be GREAT if one could do mutliple IPR cycles which overlapped.
As in do the I phase of length and then just [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ads[/words] for a month as Proliferation and do I phase of the girth cycle. then the rest phase of the lenght routine would coincide with the proliferation phase of girth. There'd still be a one month of total rest though.


Week 1 and 2 Length work
Week 3 and 4 ADSing for length Proliferation
Week 5 and 6 Girth Work + ADSing for length Proliferation
Week 7 and 8 ADCing for Girth Proliferation + REST for Length
Week 9 and 10 ADCing for Girth Proliferation + REST for Length
Week 11 and 12 Total REST
Week 13 and 14 Total REST


what do you guys think?

or do you think that girth inflamation will inflame the length aspect as well causing over training?
 
EVO said:
wow awesome vk!! its great to see that experienced vets can still gain pretty quick. it is extremely important that you spent the required time adsing to keep those gains permanent. what do you use for [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ads[/words]?
Click to expand...

Ya I think these gains are VERY significant because I had hit a brick wall for over two years with no gains in length. Alot of people get frustrated and quit and hopefully we can find a way to not hit those brick walls and have sustained and continued growth.



I'm planning on getting a vacu [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]extender[/words] from Autoextender but I don't have the money at the moment. I just use my noose style FastSize [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]extender[/words]. I get semi erect, put on a cushion (which is like a cock ring, which keeps the penis somewhat engorged but not erect). then I wrap under the glans and I put the silicone noose around. This is much more comfortable than doing it flacid since the head is engorged and just a very slight grip on the noose will keep it in place. Therefore there's no need for a tight grip which would cause circulation problems to the glans. For now this will suffice.
 
CONGRATULATIONS VK!!!

I had a sneaking suspicion that you would gain pretty quickly after your extended decon break. Once my length gains level off I'm going to take an etended break, but once you're on a roll and still progressing keep it going. Take rest when you have to but have fun with it, as always.

I'm really happy that IPR has been productive for you. Keep it going.
 
do you have a max vac vk? atm im using a bungee cord just below the knee its a really good [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ads[/words]. ive also cut the air cord to make a small cap so it doesnt come off so easily.
 
Nice one VK, well done! good gains there mate!

As millionman helped me out in my thread last week, maybe i need to take a break as i am having problems hitting the 8" mark.

I dont know if its in my head tho, and its all mentally effecting me? who knows. But im in my final year of University and life is pretty hetic.

How long would be suggested to take off on a decon break for me? Until after Xmas 1month? Then hit it hard with exercises such as stretching, bundled streches, double bundled tuncia stretch, hanging SO, OTS SD??

Would i gain better then doing a routine like that and taking a long break?
Also what is IPR protocol you are doing VK?

Congrats, wish i could see gains like that again!
 
bulc9 said:
Nice one VK, well done! good gains there mate!

As millionman helped me out in my thread last week, maybe i need to take a break as i am having problems hitting the 8" mark.

I dont know if its in my head tho, and its all mentally effecting me? who knows. But im in my final year of University and life is pretty hetic.

How long would be suggested to take off on a decon break for me? Until after Xmas 1month? Then hit it hard with exercises such as stretching, bundled streches, double bundled tuncia stretch, hanging SO, OTS SD??

Would i gain better then doing a routine like that and taking a long break?
Also what is IPR protocol you are doing VK?

Congrats, wish i could see gains like that again!
Click to expand...


BULC, I honestly think if you take time off it would be for a month or so. To really gauge this you should post how long you've been on your current routine and what you results have been like.

Once you come back make sure that you have two things: an [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] for stretching, and a heating pad. Spend most of your time working length and then every other week come back and work girth for 3-5 days and take another 2-3 days off before going back to length work. This has worked brilliantly for me, but I'll be posting about that once I get through another complete cycle.
 
i also recommend the [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ads[/words]!! :)
 
millionman said:
CONGRATULATIONS VK!!!

I had a sneaking suspicion that you would gain pretty quickly after your extended decon break. Once my length gains level off I'm going to take an etended break, but once you're on a roll and still progressing keep it going. Take rest when you have to but have fun with it, as always.

I'm really happy that IPR has been productive for you. Keep it going.
Click to expand...


Thanks buddy. I owe quite alot of this to our conversations about need for rest.
So you don't think I should stop right after the 5th session (which was yesterday by the way and I did 63 mins at 10.5 lbs. It was very tough for me to keep at that weight and had to stop and make minor adjustments every 20 minutes or so.)

I'm gonna see if I gain just as much from this last session. If I do, I will keep going, if not, I will stop and [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] for a week or two and then decondition again.
 
EVO said:
do you have a max vac vk? atm im using a bungee cord just below the knee its a really good [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ads[/words]. ive also cut the air cord to make a small cap so it doesnt come off so easily.
Click to expand...

I do own a max vac. I'm hanging with it but in a different way to avoid the use of the Sheaths. Ordering the sheaths every couple of months is very expensive and I had to figure out a way around it.

I don't find the max vac stealthy at all. But I might give it a try.
 
bulc9 said:
Nice one VK, well done! good gains there mate!

As millionman helped me out in my thread last week, maybe i need to take a break as i am having problems hitting the 8" mark.

I dont know if its in my head tho, and its all mentally effecting me? who knows. But im in my final year of University and life is pretty hetic.

How long would be suggested to take off on a decon break for me? Until after Xmas 1month? Then hit it hard with exercises such as stretching, bundled streches, double bundled tuncia stretch, hanging SO, OTS SD??

Would i gain better then doing a routine like that and taking a long break?
Also what is IPR protocol you are doing VK?

Congrats, wish i could see gains like that again!
Click to expand...

Hey bulc,

I've noticed your frustration over your platuea over the past while. I can totally relate to how you're feeling. Alot of Penis Enlargement IS Mental, I can't deny that. But that mentality isn't 'more is better'. That mentality, as is the way of life in general, is that sometimes, no matter how bad we want something, we have to back off a bit, relax about it, and take it easy and in time what we want will come to us.

Penis Enlargement, unfortunately has the potential to eat you alive. I was a victim of this and unfortunately, unless you give your all to it and still see no gains, you're most likely not gonna give 'less is more' a try. For me there was always an urgency to Penis Enlargement as I thought that not Penis Enlargementing (and at that NOT doing the most extreme exercises) won't yeild results.

We have to keep in mind, all these fancy named exercises are quite new to Penis Enlargement. The only proven exercises are jelqs and hanging and some form of constrictions (like ULI's) that the Taoists practiced. And to be honest, now looking back at all the intense (and dangerous) exercises I used to do in hopes of a millimeter of gains looks stupid. You name it, I've done it, and no matter how intense it is, your body will find a way to adjust to its intensity to prevent gains if you overtrain. Either that or if your body can't adjust you end up with a dysfunctional penis.

If your tissues are deconditioned, the slightest bit of pressure makes you gain. Then, your mentality and maturity comes into play. To be patient and stick with a routine even though it 'seems' not intense enough, and to take Penis Enlargement easy. That's really the hard part. If you read into the Penis Enlargement vets who've gained alot of length and girth, you'll see most weren't over obssessed with it and they didn't make it their life's #1 priority.


To answer your question, I would suggest you take a month or two off, and then just start REALLY light. You have to then slowly build up the intensity until you find the so called 'sweet spot'. You don't wanna decondition and then head right into overtrainning again.

I would recommend you read this thread carefully. There's alot of good information I've posted by some very experienced members.

http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26228

hope this helped.
 
Awesome story. It's good to here how well IPR is working out for people. Hopefully the guys working on it at Thunder's can figure out a good set of ointments to make IPR even more effective.
 
spinner2 said:
Awesome story. It's good to here how well IPR is working out for people. Hopefully the guys working on it at Thunder's can figure out a good set of ointments to make IPR even more effective.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is currently 'working' on it over at Thunder's. The ones that contributed to it like xenolith and shiver apparently left. and another user Babis, or something like that, he's openning up a pay site and refuses to share any 'information' on thunder's.

I wouldn't underestimate [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MoS[/words] though. We have some very dedicated and bright members here who could contribute lots to developing such 'ointments'.
 
Check the thread 'collagen considered'. They're trying to figure out good compounds to help speed up the process and make it more effective. Right now it's mostly known compounds and they're considering carriers to make it penetrate well.
 
spinner2 said:
Check the thread 'collagen considered'. They're trying to figure out good compounds to help speed up the process and make it more effective. Right now it's mostly known compounds and they're considering carriers to make it penetrate well.
Click to expand...

Could you link it? I couldn't find it.
 
VK, I think you might want to try to get a package deal from autoextender, or at least get a vac-extender. The max-vac, although it seems like a well made product, doesn't seem to be on the same level as the vacu-hanger from autoextender. That's my opinion, but I also think with a package like the vacu-hanger and vac-extender for $149 you're definitely getting your monies worth.

Spinner, I think most of the discussion on collagen and chemical treatments is similar to what Supra put himself through with IGF-LR3 and the "sciency" threads here. I just look at it and say that's interesting. I'd never do it, and I think it's over reaching a bit. I stick with the exercises and let time bear the fruit of my efforts and that's really the only way with Penis Enlargement.
 
Yeah, all of the magnumforce threads on here have a lot of good information. I've read the threads multiple times. I'm not sure about you, but I'd like to save time in every way possible, and I'll consider taking risks to get there. I have a lot of stuff I want to do, and not enough time to do it.
 
Yeah we got the brains here at [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words], the post rates are picking up again to.
There could be potential in DHT gel, there are a few guys here trying it out to.
I think i'm gonna follow the same sort of structure you've mentioned VK, I'm having a bit of trouble fitting in the [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] (studying Sport at uni).
I'm only using a homemade hanger and [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words]... could do with advice on vac hangers and [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ads[/words]'ing with 'em, hows your experience been with the vacu-hanger Millionman?? The main prob I have with hanging is the skin bunch needed to hang normally means the skin along the top of the shaft gets stretched, this has caused loose skin at the Pubic bone area... will a vac hanger stretch the skin less??
 
Vaseline_Knight said:
I don't think anyone is currently 'working' on it over at Thunder's. The ones that contributed to it like xenolith and shiver apparently left. and another user Babis, or something like that, he's opening up a pay site and refuses to share any 'information' on thunder's.
Click to expand...

First; Congrats on the gains!

Second; I, (babbis), am currently "working" on it with test-subjects at my own closed forum The Growth Club. I will not create a pay-site but I will create a Penis Enlargement-instructional [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/mosdvd.htm]DVD[/words] based on tested routines and devices with picture proof of every claim. Xenolith is a member of my forum and the one I learned from via PMs and e-mail. I have also talked to shiver and upped warm-ups in my routines to 10min after talking to him.

Regarding the; " refuses to share any information" statement, check out my log, quik4lifes log and the thread called "The modified [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/penis-enlargement-newbie-forum/1597-dlds-first-routine-i-gained-2-inches-with-this-routine-full-tutorial.html]newbie routine[/words]".

Everything you need to know is right there.

Keep training smart and you might gain more...Also, continuing after the 5th or 6th workout might do more harm then good. I think you will find that you will not gain anymore after the 6th workout, if so, this could mean that all you are doing is conditioning your penis more, thus prolonging your next decon period.

Also, bulc9, did I not advice you to take a 2 month decon break about a month ago? See what happens to people that take decon break and come back training smart...:)
 
upp2eightand6 - Hi mate, yeah you did advice me that and by the looks of it i should have listened earlier. Just that there are lots of different opinions flying around and im young and once ive got my head on doing something i dont like to stop, if you know what i mean.

After 4days of no Penis Enlargement at all and my dick seems like its getting smaller by the day, it doesnt seem to be as heavy! Is this normal when taking a decon break?

Also should the break be 1 or 2 months? If im taking a break i wouldnt mind trying to do foreskin restoration as it is tight due to lots of extra skin. Would this affect the break at all?

I keep thinking to myself the a decon break and no Penis Enlargement is bad, the thought of no Penis Enlargement makes me feel bad, i am scared that i will loose my size that i now have, i would HATE and be devistated if i went back down to what i started at, could this happen, or would i loose anything?????

When i do hit Penis Enlargement back after the break, when you say take it slow VK would it be adviseable to do the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/penis-enlargement-newbie-forum/1597-dlds-first-routine-i-gained-2-inches-with-this-routine-full-tutorial.html]newbie routine[/words] again and follow that exactly. Or modify it a bit and add in A-Stretches or bundled stretches or even hanging.

Or do the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/penis-enlargement-newbie-forum/1597-dlds-first-routine-i-gained-2-inches-with-this-routine-full-tutorial.html]newbie routine[/words] for 2months then move on do that? Lastly should i do AM and PM routine, and how much Penis Enlargement in a day.

Did you notice any loss in size VK on your decon break? any further advice would be great, just that i want to know exaclty what i have to do and follow on decon and when i start back.

Your help VK has been a great help, soz for all the questions mate. but thank you very much!!!
 
BULC, You just have to step outside of the "MUST Penis Enlargement" mindset for a bit. I promise you that you moer than likely won't lose size at all. It's all in your mind. Sit down sometime in the next few days and have a nice long stroke session and I promise you that everything will feel just fine. There is a psycho somatic response to not holding the penis after it's been in your hand at say 6" around vs. your standard 5.75" and it can be an adjustment to see what your real size is. DON'T LET IT GET TO YOU. It will pass you by.

When you come back go with basic stretches for the first week, and you can probably jelq the same day and go back to a clamping routine or whatever girth method you prefer.
 
Vaseline_Knight said:
Thanks
and that sounds great. Try to incorprate the IPR protocol and see how you gain for the first two weeks. If you don't gain anything then you can start doing whatever you want, but I'm almost positive you, in particular, will have great gains.

how much did you gain from just resting?
Click to expand...
Hey VK,

I appreciate you bringing this to everyone's attention, and diligently working it out and sharing your experience. I was planning on taking a full four months, then going all-out for one month; repeat. But now I think I will just do what you have done: one workout every three days w/ [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] for 40 hours following the workout, total rest one day, then repeat for five sessions.

My routine will be the routine that gave me the bulk of my gains...NEWBIE ROUTINE! Except I will replace the jelqs with Behind-The-Balls jelqs, so I don't stress lateral bonds (I will focus on length entirely). I will also do the 10% increase in intensity every workout, in the form of bundled blasters or some sort of more intense stretch.

As far as my rest period, I have gained NOTHING, but that is a good thing...I have stayed exactly where I was at when I had my last Penis Enlargement session...just below 7" for length, and just below 6" for girth.

I have been using a 90%DMSO/10%water cream on my penis hoping that it will accelerate the deconditioning process. Other options for those looking would be porcine relaxin and/or Potaba.

I really like your idea for the overlapping cycles. Maybe you can give that a try your next go??
 
upp2eightand6 said:
First; Congrats on the gains!

Second; I, (babbis), am currently "working" on it with test-subjects at my own closed forum The Growth Club. I will not create a pay-site but I will create a Penis Enlargement-instructional [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/mosdvd.htm]DVD[/words] based on tested routines and devices with picture proof of every claim. Xenolith is a member of my forum and the one I learned from via PMs and e-mail. I have also talked to shiver and upped warm-ups in my routines to 10min after talking to him.

Regarding the; " refuses to share any information" statement, check out my log, quik4lifes log and the thread called "The modified [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/penis-enlargement-newbie-forum/1597-dlds-first-routine-i-gained-2-inches-with-this-routine-full-tutorial.html]newbie routine[/words]".

Everything you need to know is right there.

Keep training smart and you might gain more...Also, continuing after the 5th or 6th workout might do more harm then good. I think you will find that you will not gain anymore after the 6th workout, if so, this could mean that all you are doing is conditioning your penis more, thus prolonging your next decon period.

Also, bulc9, did I not advice you to take a 2 month decon break about a month ago? See what happens to people that take decon break and come back training smart...:)
Click to expand...

Hey Babis,
I've read quite a bit of your posts, and what I said was based on what I had read. I didn't mean to downplay your contribution nor did I intend any other ill effect. All I was trying to say was that I was unaware of anyone working on the IPR at thunder's. I might be wrong, however, as I don't check thunder's often.

I have talked to Xenolith (a fellow Engineer) via PM's on Thunder's, and would love to keep in close contact with the both of you. I have already decided not to go past the 5th work out. So your advice reaffirms my decision.

I remember reading in your newbie challange routine, that you advised that for the P phase, only light stretches be utilized at night for a week. Do you think this would be enough for me for my P phase? or what do you suggest?
 
bulc9 said:
upp2eightand6 - Hi mate, yeah you did advice me that and by the looks of it i should have listened earlier. Just that there are lots of different opinions flying around and im young and once ive got my head on doing something i dont like to stop, if you know what i mean.

After 4days of no Penis Enlargement at all and my dick seems like its getting smaller by the day, it doesnt seem to be as heavy! Is this normal when taking a decon break?

Also should the break be 1 or 2 months? If im taking a break i wouldnt mind trying to do foreskin restoration as it is tight due to lots of extra skin. Would this affect the break at all?

I keep thinking to myself the a decon break and no Penis Enlargement is bad, the thought of no Penis Enlargement makes me feel bad, i am scared that i will loose my size that i now have, i would HATE and be devistated if i went back down to what i started at, could this happen, or would i loose anything?????

When i do hit Penis Enlargement back after the break, when you say take it slow VK would it be adviseable to do the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/penis-enlargement-newbie-forum/1597-dlds-first-routine-i-gained-2-inches-with-this-routine-full-tutorial.html]newbie routine[/words] again and follow that exactly. Or modify it a bit and add in A-Stretches or bundled stretches or even hanging.

Or do the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/penis-enlargement-newbie-forum/1597-dlds-first-routine-i-gained-2-inches-with-this-routine-full-tutorial.html]newbie routine[/words] for 2months then move on do that? Lastly should i do AM and PM routine, and how much Penis Enlargement in a day.

Did you notice any loss in size VK on your decon break? any further advice would be great, just that i want to know exaclty what i have to do and follow on decon and when i start back.

Your help VK has been a great help, soz for all the questions mate. but thank you very much!!!
Click to expand...

Hey bulc.

I know exactly how you feel. As I said, I felt the same way. This is what I've noticed. When I stop Penis Enlargement, for a couple of days to a week, my penis looks scrawny. specially compared to the full floppy post session penis that I get. post session I have a solid 6.5" mid shaft girth, where as with a dry erection I'm just barely over 6". That's a very huge difference in size.


I noticed no difference in size during my break. one main reason is that every night, I applied the warm up with the heater for 5 mins ( or however long it would take to get my dick HOT) and then I would relax for a minute or two (sometimes I'd run cold water over it) and then back at it again. this was very convinient while checking my emails late at night before sleep. I'd do this for an hour every night, and I massaged my penis very lightly (while flacid and warmed up). I guess this might help with deconditioning as it helps remove scar tissue.

If you don't gain from what I mentioned, you can be SURE that you wont lose anything.

I had sex today and I've never seen my dick so big. I didn't even clamp or pump before sex and i had difficulty fitting into a Magnum. I guess we never hit our maximum errection quality when we're overtrained.


once you go back to Penis Enlargement, i would recommend you do exactly what I did. Go straight into hanging. Maybe the first day do a very light [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/penis-enlargement-newbie-forum/1597-dlds-first-routine-i-gained-2-inches-with-this-routine-full-tutorial.html]newbie routine[/words] for 15 minutes ( dont count this as your 5 sessions). Also, when doing manuals, DON'T pull as HARD as you can. DON'T. just moderately pull it. That's why hanging is preferred cause you can exactly measure how much force is being exerted on your dick and for how long. And do it just once, and let it be. wait for two days, and do it again. The game is patience.
 
goldmember said:
Hey VK,

I appreciate you bringing this to everyone's attention, and diligently working it out and sharing your experience. I was planning on taking a full four months, then going all-out for one month; repeat. But now I think I will just do what you have done: one workout every three days w/ [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] for 40 hours following the workout, total rest one day, then repeat for five sessions.

My routine will be the routine that gave me the bulk of my gains...NEWBIE ROUTINE! Except I will replace the jelqs with Behind-The-Balls jelqs, so I don't stress lateral bonds (I will focus on length entirely). I will also do the 10% increase in intensity every workout, in the form of bundled blasters or some sort of more intense stretch.

As far as my rest period, I have gained NOTHING, but that is a good thing...I have stayed exactly where I was at when I had my last Penis Enlargement session...just below 7" for length, and just below 6" for girth.

I have been using a 90%DMSO/10%water cream on my penis hoping that it will accelerate the deconditioning process. Other options for those looking would be porcine relaxin and/or Potaba.

I really like your idea for the overlapping cycles. Maybe you can give that a try your next go??
Click to expand...


Thanks alot for the compliments friend.
About your routine:
That all sounds great GM. The only thing that I would modify is the 40 hours of ADSing. It should be stressed out that during the P-phase you don't want to cause further inflamation of the tissue. ADSing for too long will cause inflamation to some degree. I would suggest [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] as much as you can the day of your Penis Enlargement routine, and then take two days of complete rest.

Mentally prepare yourself to gain and 'FEEL' yourself grow.

One thing that I did that gave me a mental edge was that for a couple of minutes before my session, I would close my eyes and I would state my 'intention' that I'm intending to grow 3 millimeters in the next 3 days after doing this and I would visualize myself measuring 3 millimeters longer.


about the split I've proposed. I will definately give that a try next cycle in January.


GM, keep us posted on the DMSO and other deconditioning remedies.
 
Vaseline_Knight said:
Thanks alot for the compliments friend.
About your routine:
That all sounds great GM. The only thing that I would modify is the 40 hours of ADSing. It should be stressed out that during the P-phase you don't want to cause further inflamation of the tissue. ADSing for too long will cause inflamation to some degree. I would suggest [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] as much as you can the day of your Penis Enlargement routine, and then take two days of complete rest.
Click to expand...
OK. I'll go by your advice.

Vaseline_Knight said:
Mentally prepare yourself to gain and 'FEEL' yourself grow.

One thing that I did that gave me a mental edge was that for a couple of minutes before my session, I would close my eyes and I would state my 'intention' that I'm intending to grow 3 millimeters in the next 3 days after doing this and I would visualize myself measuring 3 millimeters longer.


about the split I've proposed. I will definately give that a try next cycle in January.


GM, keep us posted on the DMSO and other deconditioning remedies.
Click to expand...
All I plan on doing right now is DMSO. If anything changes however, I'll let you know.
 
Painful Pleasur said:
wow. 0.8cm time to break out the champagne :s

that's merely a difference of erection/measurement/blood flow if you ask me.
Click to expand...
Fuck off and don't post if you're going to be negative all the time.

It's pretty obvious since he hasn't had any length changes in 2 years that this is a gain. If you think anything else you have NO clue what you're talking about.
 
I will take a 1 month break. I just want to get everyones views so i dont make any mistakes and not gain again!

How would this look?
> Manual Stretches (standard ones) followed by hanging
> Jelqing

follow this for 1-2 months (or is the above overtraining)?
then after this period would it be time to up the intensity and do something like this

> Manual stretches
> A Stretch
> Bundled tunica stretch
> Hanging SD, OTS

Any other recommendations and advice would be great, how does that look? cheers VK & upp2eightand6
 
spinner2 said:
Fuck off and don't post if you're going to be negative all the time.

It's pretty obvious since he hasn't had any length changes in 2 years that this is a gain. If you think anything else you have NO clue what you're talking about.
Click to expand...
First of all i'm not negative all the time. Second, I was pointing out that it might not be really a permanent gain. chill. my apologies.
 
Painful Pleasur said:
First of all i'm not negative all the time. Second, I was pointing out that it might not be really a permanent gain. chill. my apologies.
Click to expand...

You're right my friend. It may not be a permanent gain. Only time will tell. 0.8 cm might not be alot to many people but to me its alot. specially after not having gained anything since summer of 2004.

I hope you never hit such a platuea. Meanwhile, I'll take you up on you champagne offer, cause at the moment, there's a party in my pants. rofl
 
bulc9 said:
I will take a 1 month break. I just want to get everyones views so i dont make any mistakes and not gain again!

How would this look?
> Manual Stretches (standard ones) followed by hanging
> Jelqing

follow this for 1-2 months (or is the above overtraining)?
then after this period would it be time to up the intensity and do something like this

> Manual stretches
> A Stretch
> Bundled tunica stretch
> Hanging SD, OTS

Any other recommendations and advice would be great, how does that look? cheers VK & upp2eightand6
Click to expand...


bulc9, did you read the thread I linked in the very start of this thread? It outlines the IPR protocol thoroughly there and I've tried my best to translate Xenolith's Engineering English to normal, less complicated english.

Read it! according to IPR, there's no need to be on a routine more than 2 ( or at most 3) weeks.
 
Vaseline_Knight said:
You're right my friend. It may not be a permanent gain. Only time will tell. 0.8 cm might not be alot to many people but to me its alot. specially after not having gained anything since summer of 2004.

I hope you never hit such a platuea. Meanwhile, I'll take you up on you champagne offer, cause at the moment, there's a party in my pants. rofl
Click to expand...
I did 65 days of Penis Enlargement and nothing happened.
 
Painful Pleasur said:
I did 65 days of Penis Enlargement and nothing happened.
Click to expand...


Well 65 days is quite abit to not see 'any' gains.
Maybe you should give this a try. Many people overtrain much easier than others. While they can potentially gain much easier than most people (with much less effort that is) many of them don't because they go right past the 'optimal' workload and into overtraining.
 
That is a huge factor, which honestly hasn't been brought to the light "that"
much.
* what is the optimal time for jelqing (girth) and length or vise versa.

DLD said he shoots for a .75 " expansion when doing girth.

It takes me an hour which I built up to and my girth got slightly(sometimes)
over an 1/2", it would take atleast another half hour to get another 1/4"
That to me and many 1 1/2 hour is def. overtraining.
I was/am on 4 months straight(everyday) many/at least half were 2 one hour sessions. Maybe I haven't seen gains cuz I am/was overtraining????
I know only do like 1/2 the mornings and will see maybe towards beginning of Febuary were this takes me, that will be for me just over 6 months straight girth! !
 
blackice said:
That is a huge factor, which honestly hasn't been brought to the light "that"
much.
* what is the optimal time for jelqing (girth) and length or vise versa.

DLD said he shoots for a .75 " expansion when doing girth.

It takes me an hour which I built up to and my girth got slightly(sometimes)
over an 1/2", it would take atleast another half hour to get another 1/4"
That to me and many 1 1/2 hour is def. overtraining.
I was/am on 4 months straight(everyday) many/at least half were 2 one hour sessions. Maybe I haven't seen gains cuz I am/was overtraining????
I know only do like 1/2 the mornings and will see maybe towards beginning of Febuary were this takes me, that will be for me just over 6 months straight girth! !
Click to expand...


After some really successful girth gains, I've come to realize that the 'Faux girth' expansion has no corrolation to gains. Just because your penis swells up (mostly due to fluid build up), doen't mean that in time you will cement that girth. If this was the case the guys over at tiger pumping, who regularly fill 8x3 tubes would have a permenant dick size of that proportion.
 
I thought that post girth expansion was a solid indicator of growth, but I reevaluated that sentiment a while back. Truthfully, it really does not make any sense to rely on a post girth session measurement, simply because there is going to be some fluid buildup and your tunica can only expand so far. I've found that my first girth session is usually the best for TOTAL expansion as I can reach the maximum capacity of the tunica fairly quickly. The next two girth sessions are used to help "maintain" this expansion but then I rest for four days and go back into a length oriented routine. I measured my BPFSL and I measured right on 8.25" on a cold stretch. That's progress. Measure progress with FSL and you'll see those eventually transfer over to erect length. It takes time, but with using this rest protocol I'm seeing pretty regular increases.

I've adjusted my schedule, as I thought I would go with a 4-5 session girth phase, but I feel like 3 is going to get me where I want to be. I'm concerned more with length and girth is just put into place so I can rest my glans and take a break from manual work for about 7-10 days. This rotation of 2 weeks of length work and 3 days of girth seems to be doing the trick. One of the things I don't do is try to Penis Enlargement when I'm resting. I'm speaking of [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] or ADC, it's absolutely a rest day. I know that with IPR the theory says that you should remodel the tissue for a period of 10-15 days but I don't think that's necessary to make good gains. It's a bit like deconditioning every time I take a break, because I'm not putting any stress on my penis for 5-7 days at a time. After this I notice that I feel a bit more in my tunica when I do some light toilet stretches but my BPFSL has improved. Tonight's test was to prove to myself that I'm thinking in the right direction. I've been measuring a bit more than 8.25" post length session, and to pull close to that cold is remarkable to me.

If I stop making progress I will definitely decondition for a month or two and start again.

VK, what's your current schedule like?
 
millionman said:
I thought that post girth expansion was a solid indicator of growth, but I reevaluated that sentiment a while back. Truthfully, it really does not make any sense to rely on a post girth session measurement, simply because there is going to be some fluid buildup and your tunica can only expand so far. I've found that my first girth session is usually the best for TOTAL expansion as I can reach the maximum capacity of the tunica fairly quickly. The next two girth sessions are used to help "maintain" this expansion but then I rest for four days and go back into a length oriented routine. I measured my BPFSL and I measured right on 8.25" on a cold stretch. That's progress. Measure progress with FSL and you'll see those eventually transfer over to erect length. It takes time, but with using this rest protocol I'm seeing pretty regular increases.

I've adjusted my schedule, as I thought I would go with a 4-5 session girth phase, but I feel like 3 is going to get me where I want to be. I'm concerned more with length and girth is just put into place so I can rest my glans and take a break from manual work for about 7-10 days. This rotation of 2 weeks of length work and 3 days of girth seems to be doing the trick. One of the things I don't do is try to Penis Enlargement when I'm resting. I'm speaking of [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] or ADC, it's absolutely a rest day. I know that with IPR the theory says that you should remodel the tissue for a period of 10-15 days but I don't think that's necessary to make good gains. It's a bit like deconditioning every time I take a break, because I'm not putting any stress on my penis for 5-7 days at a time. After this I notice that I feel a bit more in my tunica when I do some light toilet stretches but my BPFSL has improved. Tonight's test was to prove to myself that I'm thinking in the right direction. I've been measuring a bit more than 8.25" post length session, and to pull close to that cold is remarkable to me.

If I stop making progress I will definitely decondition for a month or two and start again.

VK, what's your current schedule like?
Click to expand...


Well my last routine was on Tuesday night. I had sex on thursday and wore a cushion for ADCing for 2 hours prior to it. I get a HUGE expansion just ADCing. It's mostly fluid build up but she didn't know that. Before sex I took it off and put it back on for some fresh blood. so for about an hour and half I had a cushion on it was like a light clamping session. I'd never seen my dick so massive.

I tried ADSing yesterday but after 20 minutes I felt my tissues getting really tired. so I stopped.

I'm thinking of either completely resting. or doing a 5 session Girth cycle. Although IPR suggests the former. What do you guys think I should do?
 
VK, Are you using an air clamp for ADC?

I'm thinking that you should rest completely for 2-3 days in a week. If the tissues felt that much fatigue from [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] then you may consider resting completely. What are you using for [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words]?
 
millionman said:
VK, Are you using an air clamp for ADC?

I'm thinking that you should rest completely for 2-3 days in a week. If the tissues felt that much fatigue from [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] then you may consider resting completely. What are you using for [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words]?
Click to expand...

No my rest days are complete rest. I dont [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words]/ADC during my rest days. I use a Stallion Cock Cushion (Model E) for ADC. it's VERY stealthy, and with a wrap, very comfortable. I can't wear it by itself as I have alot of loose skin near the base and the skin gets bunched up and after a couple of hours starts to really hurt.

I'm using a regualr Fastsize [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]extender[/words]. I will be looking into the vacuum ones probably sometime in january.
 
vk you should probably complete the protocol. 2 days of rest now, then 2-3 weeks [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ads[/words], then a decon phase again. personally i wouldnt do the girth routine, you would be gutted if you lost that length! i know i would be lol
 
VK, where do you get this ADC? Your best bet for [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] is the vac-extender because of the prolonged wear times.

EVO, Why would you follow a 2-3 [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] schedule when you could rest 2-3 days and go back to a length routine and continue to grow new penis? BIB and SWM wrote of great progress when they consistently worked to elongate the penis. With the [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] as a support to a length routine you would be able to keep the penis in an elongated state, and it does attempt to heal even in this position. If you rest for 2-3 days your tissues don't completely heal, but they don't become overly tough either. Using an [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] by itself doesn't seem to be a solution, but I do think a light routine after a 2-3 day break and then ADSing for the rest of the time and along an IPR protocol work to increase the amount of work in a given period of time.

I'm not really sold on IPR, as much as I am on just resting and allowing the penis to recover. For me it's been about progression, using more intense stretches along with the [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] this has made a huge difference. Rest allows everything to settle down and then you can proceed once you've recovered. I'm working length in 2 week cycles, and then breaking for 4-7 days. This break is really determined by my mindset as well as the condition of my penis. If I'm getting beat up around my glans then I will break for a short while. This seems to be working brilliantly. I'm not really too keen on the idea of just wearing the [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] by itself as it doesn't seem like it would be overly productive, although I could be wrong. Some light stretching and [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ADS[/words] work would do the trick, at least I think it would.
 
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