Andractim is my last hope...
- Thread starter Douglas Hamlin
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Douglas Hamlin;380457 said:Over-analysis is part of the scientific mind. As far as these experiments go, I would say its an asset.
Been doing some research on DHT receptor up-regulation. There seems to be an stimulatory effect from supplementing with Vitamin D3. Don't have time tonight to go into details, but I thought I would mention it and see if you wanted to do some digging. If Vitamin D3 is beneficial, perhaps a topical application in conjunction with DHT may help maximize chemical reactions.
Check this out: http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/140/3/1205
DH, I haven't looked at the article you cited, but that's exactly what I was thinking, if there was a way to promote up-regulation, then hit it with the DHT, results could be outstanding! I'll look into it and see what I can find, thanks DH.
I'm glad this is beneficial to others Persian, I'm going to keep pursuing it and see what happens.
Dford
Day 7 of Decon 2:
Did a 10 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] session at 130 mm for 10 minutes. No fluid retention, no discomfort. Followed up with 8 minute jelq. Noticed that PIs have plateau or slightly diminished: flaccid hang has plateaued or slightly smaller and less warm, less horny, pump from workout fades quickly.
Consequently, I have been thinking about revising my workouts. I'm going to try doing 1 day on/1 day off. Specifically, I would like to do a more intense [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout followed up with my standard 15-20 minutes jelq/clamp/erect bend combo.
Today (Day 8) is a scheduled day off. Tomorrow I will experiment with a new [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] routine for 12-15 minutes, perhaps more depending on physical sensations. I plan on doing an interval routine that progressively increases and cycles intensity. Positive signs of a superior training effect should indicate a fuller flaccid - and/or longer lasting pump - without additional fluid retention. Days off should also reveal PIs.
I will post details once I have completed the experiment.
Did a 10 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] session at 130 mm for 10 minutes. No fluid retention, no discomfort. Followed up with 8 minute jelq. Noticed that PIs have plateau or slightly diminished: flaccid hang has plateaued or slightly smaller and less warm, less horny, pump from workout fades quickly.
Consequently, I have been thinking about revising my workouts. I'm going to try doing 1 day on/1 day off. Specifically, I would like to do a more intense [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout followed up with my standard 15-20 minutes jelq/clamp/erect bend combo.
Today (Day 8) is a scheduled day off. Tomorrow I will experiment with a new [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] routine for 12-15 minutes, perhaps more depending on physical sensations. I plan on doing an interval routine that progressively increases and cycles intensity. Positive signs of a superior training effect should indicate a fuller flaccid - and/or longer lasting pump - without additional fluid retention. Days off should also reveal PIs.
I will post details once I have completed the experiment.
DH,
I've been studying androgen receptor agonists and antagonists, I think making the receptors respond to the DHT is the missing link here. That's why some respond better than others, their receptors are active and able to respond to the DHT, like in pubescent men. If there is some way to "re-activate" the receptors, or produce more receptors, I think it would have to work. I can find thousands of things that are antagonists and block DHT from binding to receptors, but I'm struggling to find things that do the opposite, probably because most of the studies have been done to find ways to block them to fight hair loss, prostate cancer, etc. Any ideas? I'll keep searching.
I've scaled back the Andractim to the same dose you are taking, 2.5g twice per day. I figure that that is keeping my levels plenty high, well above baseline, and I'm going to either respond or not, depending upon receptor activity. I've still been having a lot more night/morning wood, like I'm juicing, but without the other effects or AAS. I know it's in my system, but whether I respond or not remains to be seen.
I've been keeping up with the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] every day, the red spots I used to get are rare and more mild when I do get them. I think it's a matter of conditioning my unit in the pump. I go at least 20 min. and gradually ramp up the intensity as the time passes, with maximum pressure for the last 5 min. or so. I don't see how I could pump at full pressure (no more water escapes) for the whole 20 min., especially since I am not totally erect the whole time. I think slowly working up to max pressure helps keep the side effects like the red spots and fluid retention to a minimum.
Let's keep this journey going, we need to figure this DHT thing out for all mankind!
Dford
I've been studying androgen receptor agonists and antagonists, I think making the receptors respond to the DHT is the missing link here. That's why some respond better than others, their receptors are active and able to respond to the DHT, like in pubescent men. If there is some way to "re-activate" the receptors, or produce more receptors, I think it would have to work. I can find thousands of things that are antagonists and block DHT from binding to receptors, but I'm struggling to find things that do the opposite, probably because most of the studies have been done to find ways to block them to fight hair loss, prostate cancer, etc. Any ideas? I'll keep searching.
I've scaled back the Andractim to the same dose you are taking, 2.5g twice per day. I figure that that is keeping my levels plenty high, well above baseline, and I'm going to either respond or not, depending upon receptor activity. I've still been having a lot more night/morning wood, like I'm juicing, but without the other effects or AAS. I know it's in my system, but whether I respond or not remains to be seen.
I've been keeping up with the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] every day, the red spots I used to get are rare and more mild when I do get them. I think it's a matter of conditioning my unit in the pump. I go at least 20 min. and gradually ramp up the intensity as the time passes, with maximum pressure for the last 5 min. or so. I don't see how I could pump at full pressure (no more water escapes) for the whole 20 min., especially since I am not totally erect the whole time. I think slowly working up to max pressure helps keep the side effects like the red spots and fluid retention to a minimum.
Let's keep this journey going, we need to figure this DHT thing out for all mankind!
Dford
I don't know DLD, it is not supposed to be used for Penis Enlargement purposes at all, you have to give another reason to even be allowed to order it, and there seems to be only one place to order from. Maybe if we had a section on the forum for gynecomastia, we could skirt it that way.
DH, check out this link, it's a long read, but the author seems very logical and practical. He thinks that the administration of androgens is a catalyst for androgen receptor upregulation in and of itself. If that's true, prolonged use of DHT will cause the upregulation of the androgen receptors that I have been looking for, and allow the DHT to do it's work.
Dford
Oops forgot the link, here it is:
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/androgen-receptor-regulation.htm
DH, check out this link, it's a long read, but the author seems very logical and practical. He thinks that the administration of androgens is a catalyst for androgen receptor upregulation in and of itself. If that's true, prolonged use of DHT will cause the upregulation of the androgen receptors that I have been looking for, and allow the DHT to do it's work
.Dford
Oops forgot the link, here it is:
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/androgen-receptor-regulation.htm
Day 9 of Decon 2:
Did a 18 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout using varying intensity. I started at 120 mm for 2 minutes, then up to 140 for 2 minutes, then to 160 for 2 minutes, down to 150 for 2 minutes, up to 170 mm (max) for 2 minutes, down to 140 for 2 minutes, up to 160 for 2 minutes, 170 for 1 minute, 150 for 2 minutes, etc.
Did not notice any particular benefit from this workout. Fluid buildup was minor, and post flaccid returned to normal once workout ceased. [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] pumping seems to be providing less and less of a workout as post workout pump does not feel as powerful nor last as long as it used to.
At this juncture, I am afraid that my results may permanently plateau, as they have in the past. It has been a little over 3 weeks now, and just like all of the other training routines that I have been on (most show progress for only a month), I am experiencing a tremendous amount of difficulty in producing consistent and continual PIs/gains.
I am not quitting, but I am certainly facing some significant challenges... my flaccid has returned to normal, as have my erections. FUCKING HELL!
Did a 18 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout using varying intensity. I started at 120 mm for 2 minutes, then up to 140 for 2 minutes, then to 160 for 2 minutes, down to 150 for 2 minutes, up to 170 mm (max) for 2 minutes, down to 140 for 2 minutes, up to 160 for 2 minutes, 170 for 1 minute, 150 for 2 minutes, etc.
Did not notice any particular benefit from this workout. Fluid buildup was minor, and post flaccid returned to normal once workout ceased. [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] pumping seems to be providing less and less of a workout as post workout pump does not feel as powerful nor last as long as it used to.
At this juncture, I am afraid that my results may permanently plateau, as they have in the past. It has been a little over 3 weeks now, and just like all of the other training routines that I have been on (most show progress for only a month), I am experiencing a tremendous amount of difficulty in producing consistent and continual PIs/gains.
I am not quitting, but I am certainly facing some significant challenges... my flaccid has returned to normal, as have my erections. FUCKING HELL!
Last edited:
I just finished re-reading my progress log, trying to discern at which point things started to change for the worse. My results were looking good when I was pumping daily - 1 time per day. Results reached a peak but then started to slow down and signs of overtraining were present when I switched to 2 pump sessions per DHT day and 1 pump session on non-DHT days. Apparently, sporadic benefits manifested during daily pumping with 1 high intensity day and 1 low intensity day. And though its too early to tell, I have a feeling that every other day wont work.
So... what was it about the beginning that was so effective? Was it because I was standing in the shower? Or was it because I pumped to near maximum intensity with rest breaks built in? Today, I will experiment with high intensity pumping - 160-170 mm - for 5 minute intervals with 1 minute breaks between.
Wish me luck.
So... what was it about the beginning that was so effective? Was it because I was standing in the shower? Or was it because I pumped to near maximum intensity with rest breaks built in? Today, I will experiment with high intensity pumping - 160-170 mm - for 5 minute intervals with 1 minute breaks between.
Wish me luck.
so have you guys gotten any gains? I've been away from MS for awhile, my routine is all messed up, but ones the money rolls in im going to order a couple tubes of andractin and use it with the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words]. I had a great session with the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] today, my erect girth is 4.5 today after the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] a whopping 5.5! i was like WHOA HELL YES!
persian;380846 said:
Thanks, Persian. I completely understand that Penis Enlargement is a marathon, not a sprint. However, if you read the beginning of my progress log, you will see that I have been working on Penis Enlargement for a LONG TIME - to which I haven't experienced ANY permanent gains.
This progress log initially was designed to test DHT - to which it still is - however, after experimenting with the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words], I feel that there is some definite potential. Right now, I am in the process of trying to break through the "1 month barrier" - which is a reoccurring plateau point that I have experienced with all of my Penis Enlargement workouts/experiments. If I can somehow keep the PIs going beyond 1 month, I am sure that I will be able to gain.
phaseshift;380988 said:
Nice [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] session, Phaseshift! What type of workout did you do (mm intensity? Total Duration?)
I have yet to solidify any gains. I remain optimistic about DHT, yet, still haven't noticed any positive affects from supplementing. I'm on a DHT Decon break right now, but will be back on track in 5 days.
Douglas Hamlin;380993 said:
I did 20 minutes of maximum duration, after the 15th mark i took it off and reapplied
DH, I never really pay attention to PI's unless they are severe, since there are so many variables that can affect them, both Penis Enlargement related and non Penis Enlargement related. Do you think you could be reading too much into them and scaling back your routine too much? I have always been of the school of thought that if you get maximum stretch and expansion as frequently as possible, gains will come. This has worked for me so far. For example, I use the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] daily and always try to max out the pressure towards the end of the 20 min. set. The more I've done this, the less I get fluid retention and red spots, and the more I feel a good, solid expansion. Some days feel better than others, but cumulatively I feel like I get a better response from consistent use this way. I do my stretching the same way, I stretch the hell out of it and usually feel a nice burn each time, and some days it feels better than others, but I always push it and try to get a new record BPFSL after each session, or at the least make sure I reach my current record. That way I know the gains will come.
As for the DHT, the more research I do, the more I read that the administration of an androgen itself promotes androgen receptor up regulation. So as far as I can tell, if I continue to apply daily, the receptors will eventually up regulate and the DHT will work it's magic. Dare I say it may have already started. I think I may be gaining erect length and it feels different from normal stretching gains. It's hard to explain, but I know my body very well, and it feels like the apparent gains are from "more dick" and not from ligament stretch alone. Maybe 1/8th inch at this point, but I think it will progress a little faster since I think the upregulation has kicked in. The apparent gains are still too small to rule out variation in measuring, but if I get to 1/4 or so I'll know for sure. Keep plugging away and keep me posted.
Dford
As for the DHT, the more research I do, the more I read that the administration of an androgen itself promotes androgen receptor up regulation. So as far as I can tell, if I continue to apply daily, the receptors will eventually up regulate and the DHT will work it's magic. Dare I say it may have already started. I think I may be gaining erect length and it feels different from normal stretching gains. It's hard to explain, but I know my body very well, and it feels like the apparent gains are from "more dick" and not from ligament stretch alone. Maybe 1/8th inch at this point, but I think it will progress a little faster since I think the upregulation has kicked in. The apparent gains are still too small to rule out variation in measuring, but if I get to 1/4 or so I'll know for sure. Keep plugging away and keep me posted.
Dford
Also, we know that NO plays an important role in penile health, but I've seen it mentioned a couple times with regard to androgen recptors, but I'm still unclear as to what extent and how. Do you know anything about this? Arginine is probably a good thing to take on a regular basis anyway, but maybe it helps with the DHT is some way. I'll start taking some, but it's a pain to do because it must be taken on an empty stomach in order to be effective (without the presence of other aminos) and I rarely have an empty stomach, even before bed.
Dford
Dford
dickfordays;381013 said:
Glad to hear things are looking up for you, Dford! And thanks for keeping up with the posts. They will certainly help!
Regarding my PI obsession, I feel that it is valid. Like I have mentioned in the beginning of this thread, I have been doing Penis Enlargement for a LONG time. I know my body and I know when a workout is providing stimulus for growth vs. just stretching the skin - literally. Take last night for example:
Day 10 of Decon 2:
Did a 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout, with a 3 minute warm-up. The 3 minute warm up consisted of a slow progression to 130 mm. Once completed, I did 3, 5 minute intervals to maximum pressure (165 mm). After the workout was complete, I noticed that my penis isn't nearly as red as it used to be post pump, felt lighter (lost the heavy feeling), and did not retain a pump post workout.
There is definitely a difference in my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workouts as they are no longer providing benefits. Today, I had a terrible flaccid hang (smaller than usual) with cold sensations. I don't know if I am undertraining or overtraining, but clearly something needs to change because I am exactly where I started...
Perhaps the DHT was the definitive factor for my growth? I will try another experiment tonight to test against the DHT theory. If all else fails, then taking a break for a few days and retesting the DHT protocol will determine whether it was the cause for my temporary gains or not.
Day 11 of Decon 2:
Worst day of [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] history! Did a 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout in 3, 5 minute intervals at 160-175 mm (new maximum was achieved via manipulating pump angles). It is now very apparent that the majority of my pump is the result of lymphatic fluid accumulation; the higher intensity causing a significant accumulation. Post pump, my penis is quite soft, no longer red (a sign of blood engorgement), and puffy. After a quick 2 minute shake, stretch, jelq, I managed to reduce the majority of the lymph fluid and my penis lost its artificial pump.
Didn't have the motivation nor time to do a manual routine afterwards.
Day 12 of Decon 2:
Did a quick 10 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout in 2, 5 minute intervals at 150-160 mm. Still experiencing an artificial pump that is lacking blood engorgement. Did not do a manual routine as it was late in the evening. Flaccid today feels ok, despite the shity workouts.
Reflection: After experimenting with various techniques and strategies, it appears as though the DHT was enabling the shunting of blood during my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workouts. After a few days of Decon 2, benefits of DHT appear to have worn off and workouts began decreasing in productivity (lack of positive PIs: less horny, decreased flaccid, lack of significant and sustainable pump post workout, etc.). Today, I will start Day 1 of Phase 3. I plan on applying 3.75 grams of DHT 2 times daily, everyday (would like to do 5 grams, but I need to conserve supply until I get some more money).
Worst day of [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] history! Did a 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout in 3, 5 minute intervals at 160-175 mm (new maximum was achieved via manipulating pump angles). It is now very apparent that the majority of my pump is the result of lymphatic fluid accumulation; the higher intensity causing a significant accumulation. Post pump, my penis is quite soft, no longer red (a sign of blood engorgement), and puffy. After a quick 2 minute shake, stretch, jelq, I managed to reduce the majority of the lymph fluid and my penis lost its artificial pump.
Didn't have the motivation nor time to do a manual routine afterwards.
Day 12 of Decon 2:
Did a quick 10 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout in 2, 5 minute intervals at 150-160 mm. Still experiencing an artificial pump that is lacking blood engorgement. Did not do a manual routine as it was late in the evening. Flaccid today feels ok, despite the shity workouts.
Reflection: After experimenting with various techniques and strategies, it appears as though the DHT was enabling the shunting of blood during my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workouts. After a few days of Decon 2, benefits of DHT appear to have worn off and workouts began decreasing in productivity (lack of positive PIs: less horny, decreased flaccid, lack of significant and sustainable pump post workout, etc.). Today, I will start Day 1 of Phase 3. I plan on applying 3.75 grams of DHT 2 times daily, everyday (would like to do 5 grams, but I need to conserve supply until I get some more money).
Day 1 of Phase 3:
Applied my first 3.75 gram of DHT a few hours ago. Since its Friday and I've got time to kill, I got a little stony and played some video games for a bit. Then, it hit me... I got really horny! Not sure if it was the bud or the DHT, but I decided to take advantage of it anyway; so I proceeded to do a 20 minute edge/clamping session. Great workout! My penis felt nice and warm in the midst of it.
I am currently experiencing a decent flaccid hang with some good warmth. Looking forward to my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout and post 3.75 gram application later this evening!
DLD, since you asked, yeah I got a question. Is there any consensus on Green Tea and Penis Enlargement? Some users say its good for Penis Enlargement (stimulates the conversion of T to DHT - or something to that effect). Curious because I drink Green Tea every once and a while and am wondering if it would be a synergistic aid or inhibitory (others have stated that Green Tea is DHT inhibitor).
Applied my first 3.75 gram of DHT a few hours ago. Since its Friday and I've got time to kill, I got a little stony and played some video games for a bit. Then, it hit me... I got really horny! Not sure if it was the bud or the DHT, but I decided to take advantage of it anyway; so I proceeded to do a 20 minute edge/clamping session. Great workout! My penis felt nice and warm in the midst of it.
I am currently experiencing a decent flaccid hang with some good warmth. Looking forward to my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout and post 3.75 gram application later this evening!
DLD, since you asked, yeah I got a question. Is there any consensus on Green Tea and Penis Enlargement? Some users say its good for Penis Enlargement (stimulates the conversion of T to DHT - or something to that effect). Curious because I drink Green Tea every once and a while and am wondering if it would be a synergistic aid or inhibitory (others have stated that Green Tea is DHT inhibitor).
Pardon my writing tonight... I am a bit drunk.
Day 1 of Phase 3 (2nd application):
Several hours after my first application, I did a 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 155-165 mm pressure. Immediately after the session, I noticed a significant difference in my pump; my penis was much more red, less fluid retention, and filled with blood! I had a great sense of heaviness about my penis that definitely paid dividends during my manual routine (each jelq felt like I was moving much more blood). Followed up with 3.75 grams of DHT. I also experience a nice post workout flaccid that lasted all night and through the next morning.
Day 2 of Phase 3:
Did a light manual routine of 8-10 minutes of jelqing/clamping/edging prior to my first 3.75 grams of DHT. Several hours later, did a 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 155-165 mm. Immediately after pump session, I noticed that my pump was not as red nor as full as yesterdays session. Respectively, I noticed that I experienced a proportionate increase in fluid retention - which leads me to believe that if you are NOT going to draw in blood, your going to draw in lymph fluid. I need to figure out some way to definitively ensure that my pump session is pulling blood and not lymph fluid...
Anyways... I followed up with a full 22 minute jelq/clamp/erect bend workout and then applied my 2nd 3.75 DHT dose. Post workout flaccid was not as impressive as the night prior. Which leads me to wonder why I would experience such a significant positive effect Day 1 and NOT on Day 2...?
Day 3 of Phase 3:
Did a very short 3 minute jelq prior to my first 3.75 DHT app. Later in the day, I decided to apply my DHT prior to my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] session. I let it soak in for 30 minutes - then did my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] + manual routine (to see if it produces a more positive effect). Difficult to determine if the pre-app was more effective than post app, but definitely bears repeating. My penis did feel a bit bigger during manual routine than day 2, but less significant than day 1. Similarly, immediate post [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] pump effect felt somewhere in between: not quite as full/red as day 1, but a bit more full/red than day 2.
Today's manual routine (day 3) was a bit shorter than I would have liked it to be. I only had enough time to do a 15 minute workout, which I spent on jelqing/clamping/edging; which, as I mentioned previously, my penis felt a bit more engorged than day 2, but less so than day 1.
Reflection - Based on my results thus far, 2 things may be determined:
1. DHT does seem to work, but the extent of which is highly volatile. I need to determine whether I need constant, continual use (daily applications) or intermittent use (every 2 or 3 days).
2. [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] sessions do provide positive effects that can be amplified by manual routines post pump, however, [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] sessions need to be monitored to ensure blood pump and NOT lymph pump.
Day 1 of Phase 3 (2nd application):
Several hours after my first application, I did a 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 155-165 mm pressure. Immediately after the session, I noticed a significant difference in my pump; my penis was much more red, less fluid retention, and filled with blood! I had a great sense of heaviness about my penis that definitely paid dividends during my manual routine (each jelq felt like I was moving much more blood). Followed up with 3.75 grams of DHT. I also experience a nice post workout flaccid that lasted all night and through the next morning.
Day 2 of Phase 3:
Did a light manual routine of 8-10 minutes of jelqing/clamping/edging prior to my first 3.75 grams of DHT. Several hours later, did a 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 155-165 mm. Immediately after pump session, I noticed that my pump was not as red nor as full as yesterdays session. Respectively, I noticed that I experienced a proportionate increase in fluid retention - which leads me to believe that if you are NOT going to draw in blood, your going to draw in lymph fluid. I need to figure out some way to definitively ensure that my pump session is pulling blood and not lymph fluid...
Anyways... I followed up with a full 22 minute jelq/clamp/erect bend workout and then applied my 2nd 3.75 DHT dose. Post workout flaccid was not as impressive as the night prior. Which leads me to wonder why I would experience such a significant positive effect Day 1 and NOT on Day 2...?
Day 3 of Phase 3:
Did a very short 3 minute jelq prior to my first 3.75 DHT app. Later in the day, I decided to apply my DHT prior to my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] session. I let it soak in for 30 minutes - then did my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] + manual routine (to see if it produces a more positive effect). Difficult to determine if the pre-app was more effective than post app, but definitely bears repeating. My penis did feel a bit bigger during manual routine than day 2, but less significant than day 1. Similarly, immediate post [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] pump effect felt somewhere in between: not quite as full/red as day 1, but a bit more full/red than day 2.
Today's manual routine (day 3) was a bit shorter than I would have liked it to be. I only had enough time to do a 15 minute workout, which I spent on jelqing/clamping/edging; which, as I mentioned previously, my penis felt a bit more engorged than day 2, but less so than day 1.
Reflection - Based on my results thus far, 2 things may be determined:
1. DHT does seem to work, but the extent of which is highly volatile. I need to determine whether I need constant, continual use (daily applications) or intermittent use (every 2 or 3 days).
2. [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] sessions do provide positive effects that can be amplified by manual routines post pump, however, [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] sessions need to be monitored to ensure blood pump and NOT lymph pump.
Douglas Hamlin;381425 said:Pardon my writing tonight... I am a bit drunk.
Day 2 of Phase 3:
Did a light manual routine of 8-10 minutes of jelqing/clamping/edging prior to my first 3.75 grams of DHT. Several hours later, did a 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 155-165 mm. Immediately after pump session, I noticed that my pump was not as red nor as full as yesterdays session. Respectively, I noticed that I experienced a proportionate increase in fluid retention - which leads me to believe that if you are NOT going to draw in blood, your going to draw in lymph fluid. I need to figure out some way to definitively ensure that my pump session is pulling blood and not lymph fluid..............
................Anyways... I followed up with a full 22 minute jelq/clamp/erect bend workout and then applied my 2nd 3.75 DHT dose. Post workout flaccid was not as impressive as the night prior. Which leads me to wonder why I would experience such a significant positive effect Day 1 and NOT on Day 2...?
Nice work I like your consistency and how you are dedicated to your goals.
Here my guess about fluid buildup.I have minimum fluid build up and it might be because I go into the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] fully erect and kegal during my session. It is a very intense workout and after my penis is always engorged with blood and hanging low which I can say Ive never had before ever! Also someone told me a little fluid buildup is healthy....
If your concerned that you penis looked bigger on day 1 and not day 2 it is possibly fatigue, when I started my workouts my penis was actually measuring smaller and I took no rest days: but my gains still came a month and 2 months later. Also maybe like pushups some days I can do 60 pushups easily and the next day I have trouble getting in the first 10. ! . It a good thing that means your tearin down those micro cells metamorphosing more cells splitting, growing, and doubling all the tissue in your penis!
I know youve been at this a long time but your consistency will get you your gains sometimes it may look like were getting nowhere but not long after that is where it will happen. Sometimes I work so hard daily and I want to see more than I have or I train really hard for 2 weeks and I measure the same, but I just picture 1 year in my head; I picture 7", 8", 9" on the ruler; I imagine December and January, February and March- then I sit down and give everything I have to that day's workout.
Day 4 of Phase 3:
Tried something new today... Prior to my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout, I did a quick 3 minute jelq in hopes to facilitate more blood pooling and less lymph. After that, I did a 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] session at 150-155 mm pressure. The Workout felt really comfortable and produced a nice post-pump effect: moderate redness, heft, and pump. Manual workout felt productive as well, which consisted of 25 minutes of jelqing/edging/clamping. I did not measure, but my penis felt a bit bigger than the usual, perhaps 1/16-1/8+ girth and length.
I also opted to have a day off from DHT. Tomorrow I am going to experiment with 5 grams in 1 application, every day. This will provide two significant changes:
1. Greater dosage at one time.
2. Greater recuperation phase that may provide for better DHT binding.
Tried something new today... Prior to my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout, I did a quick 3 minute jelq in hopes to facilitate more blood pooling and less lymph. After that, I did a 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] session at 150-155 mm pressure. The Workout felt really comfortable and produced a nice post-pump effect: moderate redness, heft, and pump. Manual workout felt productive as well, which consisted of 25 minutes of jelqing/edging/clamping. I did not measure, but my penis felt a bit bigger than the usual, perhaps 1/16-1/8+ girth and length.
I also opted to have a day off from DHT. Tomorrow I am going to experiment with 5 grams in 1 application, every day. This will provide two significant changes:
1. Greater dosage at one time.
2. Greater recuperation phase that may provide for better DHT binding.
Last night's workout was better than I thought! It produced a nice flaccid hang and warmth that is still present - even as I write this now. Definitely going to start my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workouts with a 3-5 minute jelq to see if benefits persist.
Douglas Hamlin;381560 said:Last night's workout was better than I thought! It produced a nice flaccid hang and warmth that is still present - even as I write this now. Definitely going to start my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workouts with a 3-5 minute jelq to see if benefits persist.
Is your [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] routine changing?
Day 5 of Phase 3:
Applied 5 grams of DHT and let it soak in for 1.5 hours. Then I jelqed for 4 minutes prior to my 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] at 150-155 mm. [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout went very well, and provided a nice pump, with good blood engorgement and very little lymph fluid. Manual routine felt great, which consisted of 30 minutes of jelqing/clamping/edging. About 10 minutes into my routine, I decided to use a velcro tourniquet for a clamped edge session - which felt amazing! My penis was extremely engorged!
Immediately post workout, I noticed that my penis felt very warm - both in sensation and to the touch. We'll see how this uber intense workout pays off tomorrow.
Applied 5 grams of DHT and let it soak in for 1.5 hours. Then I jelqed for 4 minutes prior to my 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] at 150-155 mm. [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout went very well, and provided a nice pump, with good blood engorgement and very little lymph fluid. Manual routine felt great, which consisted of 30 minutes of jelqing/clamping/edging. About 10 minutes into my routine, I decided to use a velcro tourniquet for a clamped edge session - which felt amazing! My penis was extremely engorged!
Immediately post workout, I noticed that my penis felt very warm - both in sensation and to the touch. We'll see how this uber intense workout pays off tomorrow.
Turnover;381676 said:
I had tried that with my previous workouts and may go back. For now I am experimenting with a different approach, but rest assured, DHT is absorbed quickly and is not "washed off" by the time I get into the tub.
Update from yesterday's workout: My flaccid is hanging about 1/8" thicker today - which is a great sign of a great workout.
Too early to tell, DLD. I get these PIs from time to time, but they usually fade. I know I will be on the right track if either:
1. Flaccid stays fuller for several days/weeks in a row
or
2. Flaccid may fluctuate in fullness, but fullness gets larger over time.
So far, neither of these events have ever happened in a consistent fashion. Regardless, I remain optimistic and will continue to move forward and troubleshoot my workouts accordingly.
1. Flaccid stays fuller for several days/weeks in a row
or
2. Flaccid may fluctuate in fullness, but fullness gets larger over time.
So far, neither of these events have ever happened in a consistent fashion. Regardless, I remain optimistic and will continue to move forward and troubleshoot my workouts accordingly.
Day 6 of Phase 3:
Was horny in the afternoon so I took out my aggression on my cock! Did a 12 minute clamped edge session. Felt nice.
Later in the evening, I did my 5 gram DHT - 1 hour soak - 4 minute jelq warm-up then 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 150-155 mm. [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workouts have been feeling consistently better, but not quite as potent as they can be (based on some of my fluke uber [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout reactions). Measured girth immediately post pump: 4 7/8" mid shaft, 5 1/8" base. These values are good, but as I have mentioned before, I have experienced 5" mid shaft girth. I hope I can get back on that track...
Followed up my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout with a 25 minute manual routine: jelqing/clamped edging/erect bending. Penis felt worked out - very warm in sensation and to the touch. Still have about 1/8" increased mid-shaft girth (4 3/8"). Looking forward to improving it to 4 1/2".
Was horny in the afternoon so I took out my aggression on my cock!
Did a 12 minute clamped edge session. Felt nice.Later in the evening, I did my 5 gram DHT - 1 hour soak - 4 minute jelq warm-up then 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 150-155 mm. [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workouts have been feeling consistently better, but not quite as potent as they can be (based on some of my fluke uber [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout reactions). Measured girth immediately post pump: 4 7/8" mid shaft, 5 1/8" base. These values are good, but as I have mentioned before, I have experienced 5" mid shaft girth. I hope I can get back on that track...
Followed up my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout with a 25 minute manual routine: jelqing/clamped edging/erect bending. Penis felt worked out - very warm in sensation and to the touch. Still have about 1/8" increased mid-shaft girth (4 3/8"). Looking forward to improving it to 4 1/2".
Day 7 of Phase 3:
Decided to have a lower intensity day, and man has it paid off! Did a 4 minute jelq warm-up prior to my 12 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 150-155 mm. Instead of a manual routine, I opted to have sex with my girlfriend - which is always more enjoyable!
I swear... I have to gain... I need to gain... not only for me and my confidence/sexual gratification, but for my girlfriend as well! Last night, during sex (after my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] session), my cock felt noticeably thicker (1/8-1/4") - and I'm sure she could feel the difference too. It was late in the evening, and at first she was like: "lets just take care of you..." but after a few minutes, she was squirtin' all over my cock! Now... this happens from time to time, but never has it happened this quickly - and never would I have imagined that she could have an orgasm when she's "tired" (never happens). The extra girth must have been a significant factor in the precipitation of her fast and powerful orgasm (she almost always orgasms, but rarely squirts!).
After, I applied 5 grams of DHT and passed the fuck out. Today, my flaccid feels heavy! I'm hanging around 4 1/2" girth! There are only 3 possible explanations for this:
1. Lower intensity workout.
2. Sex and some type of hormonal response.
3. A combination of the two.
I will try to replicate to the best of my ability these results. So, I will do 2 days heavy intensity and 1 day light intensity to see if the results will accumulate.
Decided to have a lower intensity day, and man has it paid off! Did a 4 minute jelq warm-up prior to my 12 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 150-155 mm. Instead of a manual routine, I opted to have sex with my girlfriend - which is always more enjoyable!
I swear... I have to gain... I need to gain... not only for me and my confidence/sexual gratification, but for my girlfriend as well! Last night, during sex (after my [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] session), my cock felt noticeably thicker (1/8-1/4") - and I'm sure she could feel the difference too. It was late in the evening, and at first she was like: "lets just take care of you..." but after a few minutes, she was squirtin' all over my cock! Now... this happens from time to time, but never has it happened this quickly - and never would I have imagined that she could have an orgasm when she's "tired" (never happens). The extra girth must have been a significant factor in the precipitation of her fast and powerful orgasm (she almost always orgasms, but rarely squirts!).
After, I applied 5 grams of DHT and passed the fuck out. Today, my flaccid feels heavy! I'm hanging around 4 1/2" girth! There are only 3 possible explanations for this:
1. Lower intensity workout.
2. Sex and some type of hormonal response.
3. A combination of the two.
I will try to replicate to the best of my ability these results. So, I will do 2 days heavy intensity and 1 day light intensity to see if the results will accumulate.
Day 8 of Phase 3:
Did my 4 minute warm-up, 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] at 150-155 mm. Session felt a little intense, but overall went well. Followed up with a 5 minute manual routine that turned into clamped sex. After we finished, I applied 5 grams of DHT.
Day 9 of Phase 3:
For most of the day, my flaccid felt pretty good, perhaps around 4 3/8" girth. Did my usual 4 minute warm-up + 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 150-155 mm. Workout felt very comfortable today and I will soon start increasing intensity to the 155-160 mm level. Followed up with a 20 minute manual routine (jelq/clamped edging) and applied 5 grams of DHT.
Several hours post workout, my flaccid is hanging not as healthy as it was earlier today and feels quite cold but still a bit bigger than the usual. Don't know what to make of it, nor am I worried.
Did my 4 minute warm-up, 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] at 150-155 mm. Session felt a little intense, but overall went well. Followed up with a 5 minute manual routine that turned into clamped sex.
After we finished, I applied 5 grams of DHT.Day 9 of Phase 3:
For most of the day, my flaccid felt pretty good, perhaps around 4 3/8" girth. Did my usual 4 minute warm-up + 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 150-155 mm. Workout felt very comfortable today and I will soon start increasing intensity to the 155-160 mm level. Followed up with a 20 minute manual routine (jelq/clamped edging) and applied 5 grams of DHT.
Several hours post workout, my flaccid is hanging not as healthy as it was earlier today and feels quite cold but still a bit bigger than the usual. Don't know what to make of it, nor am I worried.
Douglas Hamlin;382067 said:Several hours post workout, my flaccid is hanging not as healthy as it was earlier today and feels quite cold but still a bit bigger than the usual. Don't know what to make of it, nor am I worried.
Don't worry too much on this, flaccid size can be effected by hundreds of different things.
Day 10 of Phase 3:
Unintended day off - Missed my workout and did not apply DHT either.
Day 11 of Phase 3:
Did a 4 minute jelq warm-up, 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 155-160 mm, followed by a 25 minute jelq/clamped edge manual routine. Applied 5 grams of DHT to finish.
Flaccid is hanging pretty good right now, fluctuating between 4 3/8" and 4 1/2" - although a little cold.
Starting yesterday (day 10), I decided to experiment with organic virgin coconut oil as lube for Penis Enlargement and a general conditioner to treat my foreskin. So far it works well! My cock smells like a frickin' coconut macaroon cookie!
Perhaps it is a little too early to determine, but my penis feels a bit more plump with coconut oil. Has anyone had any experience with this?
Dford! Where the hell are you buddy!?
Unintended day off - Missed my workout and did not apply DHT either.
Day 11 of Phase 3:
Did a 4 minute jelq warm-up, 15 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 155-160 mm, followed by a 25 minute jelq/clamped edge manual routine. Applied 5 grams of DHT to finish.
Flaccid is hanging pretty good right now, fluctuating between 4 3/8" and 4 1/2" - although a little cold.
Starting yesterday (day 10), I decided to experiment with organic virgin coconut oil as lube for Penis Enlargement and a general conditioner to treat my foreskin. So far it works well! My cock smells like a frickin' coconut macaroon cookie!
Perhaps it is a little too early to determine, but my penis feels a bit more plump with coconut oil. Has anyone had any experience with this?
Dford! Where the hell are you buddy!?
DH, I'm here buddy, sorry for being a stranger, been going through some things, no excuse though. I've been keeping up with you though, still inspired by your dedication to Penis Enlargement and to updating us. The verdict is still out with me about the Andractim, I've been through one tube and I was hoping to see something pretty significant at this point. I swear the more I study this, it has to work if done long enough (if the info. is valid)! Maybe it's just slower than we think, afterall, even during puberty the growth was so slow that it was not noticeable. I'm going to keep going, maybe even re-order once my supply is gone, to see if it needs to be done for a longer period of time for some people to see results. I'm sure people differ when it comes to how quickly the DHT causes up-regulation of the receptors, but apparently it inevitably does. Plus I look forward to the burn of it now, it stings a bit sometimes because of the alcohol in it, but I'm starting to like it!
As for the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words], I've been pretty consistent but I did miss a few days becasue my mind hasn't been right. I gradually build up the intensity throughout the 20 min. set and it is no longer even the least bit uncomfortable at max. pressure anymore, and I hardly get any red spots or excessive fluid. I have gotten some comments about it growing, but she knows I use the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words], so it may be in her head. I haven't measured un-pumped girth in a while, so I can't tell if I've had any permanent girth gains.
Keep up the hard work, and I'll try to be better about my posts!
Dford
As for the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words], I've been pretty consistent but I did miss a few days becasue my mind hasn't been right. I gradually build up the intensity throughout the 20 min. set and it is no longer even the least bit uncomfortable at max. pressure anymore, and I hardly get any red spots or excessive fluid. I have gotten some comments about it growing, but she knows I use the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words], so it may be in her head. I haven't measured un-pumped girth in a while, so I can't tell if I've had any permanent girth gains.
Keep up the hard work, and I'll try to be better about my posts!
Dford
No worries Dford. Do you have any articles in particular about up-regulation? I have studied physiology in college, and as far as I know, the more you administer a drug/hormone the more the cell down-regulates; this phenomenon explains why people can improve their alcohol tolerance. However, if you have read something that indicates that DHT receptor upregulate as a consequence of long term exposure (anything more than 4 week would be long term in my book), then I would like to check it out. Most of what I have read indicates that cycling is key (3 weeks on, 1 week off, etc.).
Well, as for me... my high intensity workouts certainly taxed the shit outta my penis. Foreskin scar started spreading, with more discoloration to boot. I don't think high intensity workouts are worth the risk... my penis has not showed any signs of permanent growth and I am legitimately afraid of having the same size cock and it just looking deformed... So, I am going to try something low intensity, every other day. If that doesn't work, then my options will be running thin...
I took Day 12 off, but did apply 5 grams of DHT.
Day 13 of Phase 3:
10 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 125-130 mm pressure. Absolutely no fluid retention. Did a 10 minute slow, concentrated jelq (3-4 second reps, and really focusing on feeling the blood move) at 50-70% erection (I usually do 70-90%). Applied 5 grams of DHT afterward.
Day 14 of Phase 3:
Scheduled day off, though I will continue to apply 5 grams of DHT. My flaccid feels good today - 4 3/8". I am also applying Vitamin K creme, MSM creme, and Arnica Oil to alleviate discoloration and heal the foreskin scar.
Well, as for me... my high intensity workouts certainly taxed the shit outta my penis.
Foreskin scar started spreading, with more discoloration to boot. I don't think high intensity workouts are worth the risk... my penis has not showed any signs of permanent growth and I am legitimately afraid of having the same size cock and it just looking deformed... So, I am going to try something low intensity, every other day. If that doesn't work, then my options will be running thin... I took Day 12 off, but did apply 5 grams of DHT.
Day 13 of Phase 3:
10 minute [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words] workout at 125-130 mm pressure. Absolutely no fluid retention. Did a 10 minute slow, concentrated jelq (3-4 second reps, and really focusing on feeling the blood move) at 50-70% erection (I usually do 70-90%). Applied 5 grams of DHT afterward.
Day 14 of Phase 3:
Scheduled day off, though I will continue to apply 5 grams of DHT. My flaccid feels good today - 4 3/8". I am also applying Vitamin K creme, MSM creme, and Arnica Oil to alleviate discoloration and heal the foreskin scar.
DH, I've seen it stated that the best way to promote androgen receptor up-regulation is the administration of the androgen itself. Here's one link that is pretty detailed.
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/androgen-receptor-regulation.htm
This link seems to try to debunk the common thought about down regulation occuring, but I've seen it in a few other abstracts of expriments, I'll try to find those again since they seem more scientific and less speculative.
I also studied physiology, anatomy, etc. in college, my degree is in exercise science, and I have always thought that down regulation occurs as well. It seems counter-intuitive for up regulation to occur, but if you read the above link carefully, the author seems to make sense, but again, this article in particular seems speculative. The scientific abstracts that I saw stated that up regulation occurs in a very matter of fact manner, as if it's a known fact though, so those should shed some light on it when I find them.
Now for the complicated part: I read in another forum that it is speculated that Andractim, being only 2.5% concentration, can not provide enough DHT because of absorbtion limitations. In other words, only so much of a topical can be absorbed, so the lower concentration Andractim (compared to usual 10% concentration DHT gel used in all the transgender studies) may not provide enough actual DHT per volume of gel in an application. If absorbtion is the issue, then up or down regulation won't even come into play yet. I don't know what I think conclusively about this, but there could be ways to improve absorbtion, such as several applications throughout the day in intervals, or possibly the use of a micro needling roller like I mentioned in an earlier post, or mixing the Andractim with DMSO. What are your thoughts on absorbtion, any insight? Is there any way to test absorbtion, other than trial and error? I've also read about others putting the Andractim on flaccid vs. erect, do you think it matters? The concept is that when erect, the skin is thinner (I'm not sure how that's possible though). There is also discussion about the pores being open vs. closed.
On a side note, several topical Penis Enlargement gels contain L-arginine, which we know is good for NO production and [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis health[/words], what are your thoughts on mixing the contents of an arginine capsule in with Andractim? There are several questions that go along with this: would it be safe (are the capsules pure enough), does it only exert it's effects systemically (could you just swallow the capsules to get the same effect), would the absorbtion of the arginine be problematic as well? So many unanswered questions about these things! I wish there were more true experiments on this stuff specifically geared towards Penis Enlargement, but I guess docs and scientists don't want to put their reputations on the line by doing so.
Anyway, let's keep plugging away until we figure this thing out!
Dford
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/androgen-receptor-regulation.htm
This link seems to try to debunk the common thought about down regulation occuring, but I've seen it in a few other abstracts of expriments, I'll try to find those again since they seem more scientific and less speculative.
I also studied physiology, anatomy, etc. in college, my degree is in exercise science, and I have always thought that down regulation occurs as well. It seems counter-intuitive for up regulation to occur, but if you read the above link carefully, the author seems to make sense, but again, this article in particular seems speculative. The scientific abstracts that I saw stated that up regulation occurs in a very matter of fact manner, as if it's a known fact though, so those should shed some light on it when I find them.
Now for the complicated part: I read in another forum that it is speculated that Andractim, being only 2.5% concentration, can not provide enough DHT because of absorbtion limitations. In other words, only so much of a topical can be absorbed, so the lower concentration Andractim (compared to usual 10% concentration DHT gel used in all the transgender studies) may not provide enough actual DHT per volume of gel in an application. If absorbtion is the issue, then up or down regulation won't even come into play yet. I don't know what I think conclusively about this, but there could be ways to improve absorbtion, such as several applications throughout the day in intervals, or possibly the use of a micro needling roller like I mentioned in an earlier post, or mixing the Andractim with DMSO. What are your thoughts on absorbtion, any insight? Is there any way to test absorbtion, other than trial and error? I've also read about others putting the Andractim on flaccid vs. erect, do you think it matters? The concept is that when erect, the skin is thinner (I'm not sure how that's possible though). There is also discussion about the pores being open vs. closed.
On a side note, several topical Penis Enlargement gels contain L-arginine, which we know is good for NO production and [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis health[/words], what are your thoughts on mixing the contents of an arginine capsule in with Andractim? There are several questions that go along with this: would it be safe (are the capsules pure enough), does it only exert it's effects systemically (could you just swallow the capsules to get the same effect), would the absorbtion of the arginine be problematic as well? So many unanswered questions about these things! I wish there were more true experiments on this stuff specifically geared towards Penis Enlargement, but I guess docs and scientists don't want to put their reputations on the line by doing so.
Anyway, let's keep plugging away until we figure this thing out!
Dford
Guys, just my two cents.
Firslty, you can buy pure arginine powder that tends to work well for me. I mix it in with carrot juice or the like. You can also buy AAKG or Citriline. RED has some posts about this in the supplements section.
Secondly, you might be right about the quantity of DHT actually being absorbed. Have you tried alternating on the different area's of the penis on which you rub in the cream at different times of the day? For instance, if you want to work with the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words], how about rubbing it just on the base? If, you are going to be doing stretching, then rub just on the underside, or upside, or on the head of the penis? Alternating, might solve the problem of absorption, or the pores becoming too accustomed to it and blocking absorption.
Also, if you use a heat pad, water bottle, or cloth, dipped in hot water to warm up around the penis, for an extended period of time, you might achieve two things - One, the chambers, tunica, and Lig might become susceptible to a little more stretching. Two, the pours might be more open to absorbing the full or larger portion of the cream. You might even want to dab a few drops of tea tree oil on your fingers, then rub it into your penis, before you apply the andactrim.
Lastly, I wanted to ask if you guys have been edging at all? DH, you've said that sometimes, when you are horny, you've clamped, saw the penis enlarge to beyond your normal, then you have a larger hang in the morning? If you are able to edge at the same time for more than half n hour, you'll then be able to burn more of your natural Test to DHT in the penis. This might help with up-regulation, as well as giving you more pump. If you can do this daily, whilst on the cream, you might get a greater gain.
I don't have any links, just a crap load of research I've been doing.
Firslty, you can buy pure arginine powder that tends to work well for me. I mix it in with carrot juice or the like. You can also buy AAKG or Citriline. RED has some posts about this in the supplements section.
Secondly, you might be right about the quantity of DHT actually being absorbed. Have you tried alternating on the different area's of the penis on which you rub in the cream at different times of the day? For instance, if you want to work with the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98 ]Bathmate[/words], how about rubbing it just on the base? If, you are going to be doing stretching, then rub just on the underside, or upside, or on the head of the penis? Alternating, might solve the problem of absorption, or the pores becoming too accustomed to it and blocking absorption.
Also, if you use a heat pad, water bottle, or cloth, dipped in hot water to warm up around the penis, for an extended period of time, you might achieve two things - One, the chambers, tunica, and Lig might become susceptible to a little more stretching. Two, the pours might be more open to absorbing the full or larger portion of the cream. You might even want to dab a few drops of tea tree oil on your fingers, then rub it into your penis, before you apply the andactrim.
Lastly, I wanted to ask if you guys have been edging at all? DH, you've said that sometimes, when you are horny, you've clamped, saw the penis enlarge to beyond your normal, then you have a larger hang in the morning? If you are able to edge at the same time for more than half n hour, you'll then be able to burn more of your natural Test to DHT in the penis. This might help with up-regulation, as well as giving you more pump. If you can do this daily, whilst on the cream, you might get a greater gain.
I don't have any links, just a crap load of research I've been doing.
Dford:
I am not certain as to whether DMSO would be beneficial. Yes, DMSO works wonders as a transdermal carrier, however, the DHT needs to bind to receptor sites of the cells... what if DMSO draws DHT into the bloodstream?
I usually apply DHT and jelq it in using latex gloves; anywhere between 60-90% erect. Don't know if it would have a difference... So many variables!
I do have 70% DMSO, so I may experiment with it and my DHT application tonight.
Jseses:
I was edging for a bit, but my penis is super finicky and I have had to switch to lower intensity workouts to prevent skin damage. For now, I am sticking to low intensity, short duration workouts every other day till my skin gets better. Perhaps I can pick up regular edging again, but can't do clamped edging as it certainly caused my scar discoloration. BTW, clamped edging or regular edging only provided a brief pump - but no permanent gains.
I am not certain as to whether DMSO would be beneficial. Yes, DMSO works wonders as a transdermal carrier, however, the DHT needs to bind to receptor sites of the cells... what if DMSO draws DHT into the bloodstream?
I usually apply DHT and jelq it in using latex gloves; anywhere between 60-90% erect. Don't know if it would have a difference... So many variables!
I do have 70% DMSO, so I may experiment with it and my DHT application tonight.
Jseses:
I was edging for a bit, but my penis is super finicky and I have had to switch to lower intensity workouts to prevent skin damage. For now, I am sticking to low intensity, short duration workouts every other day till my skin gets better. Perhaps I can pick up regular edging again, but can't do clamped edging as it certainly caused my scar discoloration. BTW, clamped edging or regular edging only provided a brief pump - but no permanent gains.
jseses;383076 said:
None. And I have a strong family history of male pattern baldness. My hairline is still as solid and thick as it was when I started.
DH, I've been finding some good stuff about topical L-arginine, I'm going to try to mix some in with my Andractim. Check out some of these things, I'll just cut and paste them so you don't have to go to a bunch of links.
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EXAMPLE 3
In a 54 year old man with a history of impotence administration of 1.5 g L-arginine daily in the form of oral capsules combined with twice daily administration of a penetrating cream containing L-arginine hydrochloride (15% w/v) and sodium chloride (10% w/v) directly to the penis for 7 days brought initial relief from the symptoms of impotence and allowed the subject to resume normal sexual activity.
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4. A method of promoting hair growth comprising: Delivering L-arginine hydrochloride to a selected area of the skin where hair growth is desired by topically applying to the selected area of skin where hair growth is desired a delivery vehiclecomprising the L-arginine hydrochloride at a concentration of 0.25% to 25% by weight, wherein the L-arginine hydrochloride is contained in a package selected from the group consisting of liposomes, emulsions of collagen, collagen peptides andcombinations thereof, wherein the delivery vehicle further comprises an ion donor selected from the group consisting of sodium chloride, choline chloride, potassium chloride, lithium chloride and magnesium chloride and mixtures thereof, and said iondonor is present in an amount sufficient to create a high ionic strength environment able to cause the L-arginine hydrochloride to migrate from the delivery vehicle to the skin where the delivery vehicle is applied, wherein (i) said ion donorconcentration in the delivery vehicle is 10% to 90% by weight when the concentration of L-arginine hydrochloride in the delivery vehicle is 0.25% to below 5% by weight, (ii) said ion donor concentration in the delivery vehicle is 5% to 80% by weight whenthe concentration of L-arginine hydrochloride in the delivery vehicle is 5% to 15% by weight, and (iii) said ion donor concentration in the delivery vehicle is 5% to 50% by weight when the concentration of L-arginine hydrochloride in the delivery vehicleis greater than 15% to 25% by weight.
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There are several other articles I've found that indicate that topical arginine is effective for increasing blood flow locally, but it's more effective if you put it in a biohazardous environment so that it promotes the arginine to travel to a the less hostile environment, the skin. What this means is, if you mix the arginine with salt, for example, the high salt concentration of the mixture is considered "hazardous" to the arginine and it will seek out a less hazardous environment when available, such as the skin. Also, many of the ingredients in most lotions and creams also promote the arginine to enter the skin, so it may be as simple as mixing some in with a common lotion and applying to the penis. There is a ton of info. on this, just google topical arginine and you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm going to try mixing the contents of a 500mg arginine capsule into my applications of Andractim to see what happens. I may also make a mixture of a base oil (like vit E), salt, and arginine to compare the results. I'll keep you posted.
Dford
___________________
EXAMPLE 3
In a 54 year old man with a history of impotence administration of 1.5 g L-arginine daily in the form of oral capsules combined with twice daily administration of a penetrating cream containing L-arginine hydrochloride (15% w/v) and sodium chloride (10% w/v) directly to the penis for 7 days brought initial relief from the symptoms of impotence and allowed the subject to resume normal sexual activity.
_______________
4. A method of promoting hair growth comprising: Delivering L-arginine hydrochloride to a selected area of the skin where hair growth is desired by topically applying to the selected area of skin where hair growth is desired a delivery vehiclecomprising the L-arginine hydrochloride at a concentration of 0.25% to 25% by weight, wherein the L-arginine hydrochloride is contained in a package selected from the group consisting of liposomes, emulsions of collagen, collagen peptides andcombinations thereof, wherein the delivery vehicle further comprises an ion donor selected from the group consisting of sodium chloride, choline chloride, potassium chloride, lithium chloride and magnesium chloride and mixtures thereof, and said iondonor is present in an amount sufficient to create a high ionic strength environment able to cause the L-arginine hydrochloride to migrate from the delivery vehicle to the skin where the delivery vehicle is applied, wherein (i) said ion donorconcentration in the delivery vehicle is 10% to 90% by weight when the concentration of L-arginine hydrochloride in the delivery vehicle is 0.25% to below 5% by weight, (ii) said ion donor concentration in the delivery vehicle is 5% to 80% by weight whenthe concentration of L-arginine hydrochloride in the delivery vehicle is 5% to 15% by weight, and (iii) said ion donor concentration in the delivery vehicle is 5% to 50% by weight when the concentration of L-arginine hydrochloride in the delivery vehicleis greater than 15% to 25% by weight.
___________
There are several other articles I've found that indicate that topical arginine is effective for increasing blood flow locally, but it's more effective if you put it in a biohazardous environment so that it promotes the arginine to travel to a the less hostile environment, the skin. What this means is, if you mix the arginine with salt, for example, the high salt concentration of the mixture is considered "hazardous" to the arginine and it will seek out a less hazardous environment when available, such as the skin. Also, many of the ingredients in most lotions and creams also promote the arginine to enter the skin, so it may be as simple as mixing some in with a common lotion and applying to the penis. There is a ton of info. on this, just google topical arginine and you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm going to try mixing the contents of a 500mg arginine capsule into my applications of Andractim to see what happens. I may also make a mixture of a base oil (like vit E), salt, and arginine to compare the results. I'll keep you posted.
Dford