Penis enlargement effort and rest discussion

irspow;473673 said:

And I wouldn't even advise using the 70% level of contant tolerable/applicable force to start with. Why take chances? Why is the Penis Enlargement world so intent on driving so fast that they skid into the ditch at every turn? We will drive MUCH further down the road in our lifetimes if we drive slow enough that we never waste time in the ditch. Remember the tortoise and the hare? Well that is what high-intensity in Penis Enlargement does. We are the hare until we can apply a PMS.

The Lunatic,

Tom

Click to expand...

well its not only pe world. very human to want everything now! I did this too and got injured and have to cope now with peyronies plague scar tissue in my dick. This is why Im very receptive for your ideas and I already do work since some months with low and constant force and did gain.

I also tried for some time low pressure Bathmate sessions I talked about in this thread: http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?63592-minimum-low-pressure-sessions&highlight=.
Overall I think I did this experiment for some days and had a really big flaccid hang. I did it maybe not long enough to get any gains. Tough the nice part was that I had minimal fluid buildup/donut effect.
Im also a bit vary of the health effects as I did suffer some EQ problems and you did describe in an earlier post already how constant vaccum could be harmful and I do second that. but very low constant vacuum may be a workaround.

Im now more into length/extender workout but once I reached my goal there I will check back into low pressure/long time Bathmate sessions.
Im thinking of something like: 5 minutes medium clamping. 2 hours low intensity clamping. 1 hour low pressure pumping..repeat.

Obviously all these tactics do need much private time(but able to work on PC while doing it..).
I dont know if there is the possibility of a device that can do all in one. Well, DLD is coming out witht some new device maybe its a pms device

Well Im checking atm into some storys of gainers and how they achieved it while backchecking with that theory.

edit:aaahh how you writing that fast so much lol take care people who write so much tend to get lost in theory without doing anything (I know from experience )

humbly would suggest that looking at people throughout the world who achieve amazing mutations of their body now and throughout history, have always applied a PMS system, and never have applied a "body-buiding" type mentality. Constant force is the...uh...constant that you will see. :D From lips with humongous plates, too stretched necks, to altered skulls, to tiny feet, to coke can diameter torsos :D....they are all accomplished not by high intensity forces, but rather relatively very small forces applied constantly.
The "proof" is already out there...we just choose to ignore it in favor of our sili inefficient traditions and notions. LOL

irspow;473679 said:

There is a maximum "flow" if you will, that the system can tolerate. We cannot exceed this no matter how much effort we apply. And attempting to do so actually slows and CAN STOP growth in the number of cells. That is the tragedy, and highly hidden viewpoint, that can not be seen when looking at a single moment in time. Which leads to all of the sili, inefficient, unproductive, and quite detrimental "high-intensity" indoctrination. High-intensity is not a key to growth, sufficient intensity is. If that can be understood, we will all be able to get over such illusory hurdles to maximizing efficiency. Only then can we work on real hurdles to maximizing growth and efficiency.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your detailed answer
Man, that makes all very much sense.
Too heavy exercises do lead to grow but the grow will greatly increase the amount for even heavier exercises to get more grow. + the chances are big that you may end up with unhealthy grow(scar tissue).

Now does the cell theory apply to all tissue in the penis? obviously we cant forget about targeting ligs and tunica seperate(and the chambers). For example hanging does help with gains when the ligs are the limiting factor. but also here maybe dont hang many lb but instead low weight for longer time.

humbly would suggest that looking at people throughout the world who achieve amazing mutations of their body now and throughout history, have always applied a PMS system, and never have applied a "body-buiding" type mentality. Constant force is the...uh...constant that you will see. :D From lips with humongous plates, too stretched necks, to altered skulls, to tiny feet, to coke can diameter torsos :D....they are all accomplished not by high intensity forces, but rather relatively very small forces applied constantly.
The "proof" is already out there...we just choose to ignore it in favor of our sili inefficient traditions and notions. LOL

Click to expand...

SO TRUE! You need only their thousands of year wisdom in this practice. get them a MOS membership to educate us lol.

edit: So 10 minutes of intense manual stretches may make no sense even combined with extender use afterwards?

dickerschwanz;473686 said:

Thanks for your detailed answer
Man, that makes all very much sense.
Too heavy exercises do lead to grow but the grow will greatly increase the amount for even heavier exercises to get more grow. + the chances are big that you may end up with unhealthy grow(scar tissue).

Now does the cell theory apply to all tissue in the penis? obviously we cant forget about targeting ligs and tunica seperate(and the chambers). For example hanging does help with gains when the ligs are the limiting factor. but also here maybe dont hang many lb but instead low weight for longer time.

Click to expand...

I am struggling with a way of communicating how a PMS works. I am glad that I at least found a little different wording that helps you see something.

Yes, we are still dealing with inducing mitosis of cells in Penis Enlargement. The ligs, the tunica, the skin, they are all made up of collagen. So it applies to all of those tissues. This is what "grows" our penile structure.

The only muscles that we work with in Penis Enlargement, and thus want to use hypertrophy, like body builders, would be when we do pelvic floor exercises. (PC, IC, BC....like when we do kegels.) But these muscles are trained for the benefits of having them in good shape, like increased ability to have a longer travel distance of their movement or contraction, and to increase the intensity of said contraction. But it is not a source of "growth" for the penile structure itself. It is a tool we use to improve its health directly and indirectly. While there are many benefits of a strong pelvic region for those of us in Penis Enlargement, the biggest, I think, is in the ability of a strong pelvic region to force more blood into our penis intentionally.

Rock on dude! This journey is gonna' be a blast!

P.S. Get some cold on that fibrosis collection while keeping the rest of your penis under higher temperatures during your workouts. Making the "blob" of fibrosis less effected by the force while making everything else around it more effected by the force, you should be able to make its relative density to other areas equivalent over time. Thus no "excessive" fibrosis in that area, and thus no problems or "deformity".

irspow;473687 said:

I am struggling with a way of communicating how a PMS works. I am glad that I at least found a little different wording that helps you see something.

Yes, we are still dealing with inducing mitosis of cells in Penis Enlargement. The ligs, the tunica, the skin, they are all made up of collagen. So it applies to all of those tissues. This is what "grows" our penile structure.

The only muscles that we work with in Penis Enlargement, and thus want to use hypertrophy, like body builders, would be when we do pelvic floor exercises. (PC, IC, BC....like when we do kegels.) But these muscles are trained for the benefits of having them in good shape, like increased ability to have a longer travel distance of their movement or contraction, and to increase the intensity of said contraction. But it is not a source of "growth" for the penile structure itself. It is a tool we use to improve its health directly and indirectly. While there are many benefits of a strong pelvic region for those of us in Penis Enlargement, the biggest, I think, is in the ability of a strong pelvic region to force more blood into our penis intentionally.

Rock on dude! This journey is gonna' be a blast!

P.S. Get some cold on that fibrosis collection while keeping the rest of your penis under higher temperatures during your workouts. Making the "blob" of fibrosis less effected by the force while making everything else around it more effected by the force, you should be able to make its relative density to other areas equivalent over time. Thus no "excessive" fibrosis in that area, and thus no problems or "deformity".

Click to expand...

Nah its coming through what you mean. Will get more precise over time.


Well I came up with an observation that may matter.
When I use the SG extender what will often happen is that the tension goes after some time automatic higher cause he wants to retract.
I think it is was many people experience when they do a Penis Enlargement workout and afterwards they retract. Checking this back with your theory it makes sense.
I guess what happens is that after the initial force some cells start to produce daughters. These daughters want to mimic their parents.
For that to happen the dick goes back to a state where this is possible. He wants this cause he is programmed to do it as we left puberty and there is no need to grow bigger.(cause of hormons yada yada )

(this whole process maybe influenced by heat or lack of it.. no data for that atm)

I think this is the point where the PMS is coming into play. Havent figured it out totaly but feel its important.
It seems this is the point where you either use the right force to stay in a PMS system. The point where you choose the right tension that is needed to get it going with just enough tension.
Hope you understand what I mean.
The penis wants to retract thus the tension gets higher its a bit of a fight between retraction urge and the tension . Now whats the most effective way to counter this and get the PMS going.
The question is now.
Do I want the penis to stay at the same length I had before it started to retract(1) or do I want it to be under the same force as before(2)?
I cant have both at that moment as something changed.
I need to up the force to stay the same length/stretch(or even more length).


Im guessing that is what some Penis Enlargement guys say in paraphrasing the underlying principle with "riding the fatigue".

Im just thinking what would some ancient tribe lip or dick stretcher do ^^

My feeling says up the tension to the point where the retraction is not happening anymore(this process maybe helped by heat to get achieve a lower tension)
and move slowly to the point where more elongation is happening.

Another option could be to switch to another angle sort of to get more cells involved. Some sort of cycling exercises may be usefull.
An exercises that gets to a slightly different angle where the first cells still targeted, but more passiv, while other cells get into mitosis process activly.
I like that idea.
Like starting hanging straight down and moving the angle slightly every ## minutes(?) up until you reach straight up angle and then back down. Or wrapping at the base and moving the wrap slightly up/down every now and then
The variety in exercises while still only using the minimum force needed is maybe a way to escape the constant need for more tension to stay at the same length or width.
I mean the goal has to be to increase flaccid length and width of the cells and ultimately to at least get an equal BPFSL / BPenis EnlargementL ratio. or Im here on false track..

Im also starting to question the reasoning behind Penis Enlargement myth like dont do girth before length. This shouldnt matter when we dont use extreme forces.

Very briefly, I am thinking just as you. It is, the "shrinkage" we are talking about, a natural reaction to the force being applied. The nervous system will definitely do something to "fight" us in our efforts. It is not like our penises are "supposed" to be growing like this :D :D :D

Just like the instant "tug back" that everyone in Penis Enlargement is familiar with. It is most undoubtedly a very basic protection system of the body's.

But we are not talking about muscles here. There tissues don't have a means of "contraction", other than their own electric potential. I am thinking that when we are pushing too many cells into mitosis at once a chemical alarm goes off in some way. Thinking at the lowest level...we are increasing gaps between cells when we apply force. These cells in their little electric fields to do not want to be separated. It is like pulling magnets apart. Now the field strength WOULD decrease when we do this, because the force has an inverse quadratic relationship with the distance between charges. So this shrinkage SHOULD not be related to the increasing gap between cells, as their "attractive" force should be diminishing quickly as they get further apart from each other.

I am leaning to the idea that, it is just a nervous system reaction to the force applied. It senses an increase in the amount of cells entering mitosis, and attempts to "protect" itself. (If it didn't do this, our bodies would be very different then the way that we have evolved :D) What this reaction is, admittedly, I am not sure at all. This is a definite area of ignorance for me. It may be simply an evacuation of blood to the area, but more likely I would suspect that the "smooth muscle" is being starved of nitric oxide to protect the other cells. (Which would also restrict blood flow, increase tensile strength, etc.)

Bottom line, "tug back", and also temporary "shrinkage" is probably caused by several factor, most of which we can't really overcome. But, everyone should accept that this is a reaction to a relative excessive of force being applied. In the case of normal shrinkage from cold, the tensile strength of the collagen increases "winning" the tug of war with gravity and blood pressure within the penis. I think that roughly the same things are happening in reaction to excessive force. Loss of blood, decreased blood pressure, increase in the collagen's tensile strength, etc.

Does that make sense? I would lower tension if this becomes a problem or hindrance to a constant force. I don't see how the cells themselves would be doing this in a response to a force. We are basically just setting off chemical "alarms" that we probably don't have to.

Tom

When I first entered this thread I did a “abe simpson walk in walk out gif” after seeing the bible long post. However since we are in lent I came back to read this bible post by Irspow and I must say I find it very informative. It really back’s up DLD SRT LAW and gives us a detailed biological explanation of the process.

Irspow,

I want to ask you a couple of questions. 1)What is going on at a microscopic level in terms of biology and physics, when for example a hanger is experiencing fatigue in the suspensory ligaments?

2) You wrote about the cells becoming densely packed and thus making gains harder and harder for Vets that use a high intensity approach. Now, most of the time in such cases a deconditioning break is employed to try and kick start further gains. Based on your biological thinking, approximately how long do you think a deconditioning break should be?

1. I have no idea really. How would you define fatigue? And are you talking about this "fatigue" while the force is being applied or after the force is removed? If you can help me out with that I may be able to give you something.

2. Sorry, I don't buy the "deconditioning break" as a real phenomena. If anything it allows excessive daughter cells trapped in the last stage of the cell cycle because they are so heavily starved of chemicals/nutrients that they couldn't finish their growth while force kept placing more daughters into the cycle. System overload from high-intensity, forcing more cells into mitosis that available nutrients chemicals needed to feed them through their entire growth phase. Mostly, I think it simply allows mental rest time, in preparation for doing more counterproductive and excessively intense workouts. :D

Vets don't get excessive density from high-intensity workouts, they get it from years of adding cells to the same area. More cells in the same spot, more tensile strength, more effort needed to cause sufficient separation of cells for further mitosis to take place. More importantly, most of the vets have trained themselves to apply force to induce mitosis and then abandon their effort before the daughters are encoded. (as explained before) This simply makes two parent attempt to occupy the same space having the same size and structure as the unstressed parent.

So how long should this mystical deconditioning break last? Well a NORMAL cell cycle only lasts about twenty four hours. So if you haven't really overloaded your system, no more than twenty four hours after the force was last used to induce mitosis was removed. Anything longer would only be needed if you really messed up and exercised like a body builder instead of a penis builder. :D All the cells you induced should now be twice as many parents after twenty four hours. So there is no more "healing" to be done or whatever they want to call it. LOL

The way to really kick start gains is to make the "workout" so low in intensity that the workout doesn't have to stop. LOL

We are growing the number of cells everyone...we are not growing the size of cells

Mitosis...not hypertrophy.

Irspow,

Thanks for trying to answer the questions. Good luck in your Penis Enlargement journey.

Ok well Im on the pms thing. I will follow it the best i can. I will hang and extend using the vlc. I will also do manual exercise. I will remain extended for as much time as possible using the vlc and the leg strap. I will also be using the new tlc-x pe. This will allow me to continue shaft lengthening and give me the opportunity to start restoring my foreskin.

Hopefully i can do between 4 to 6 hrs of extending per day. This will be done between 1200 and 1500 gram of force. Hanging will consist of around 1 hr to lengthen the ligs. The vlc strap will take up the rest of time at a very light pull. It is hard to judge but its like a pound of force but i can sleep pretty comfortably.

Lets see how this works!

1.2 to 1.5 kg for 4 to 6 hours? That will work :D How long do you suppose that you could go with a 1/2 to 3/4 of a kilo?

Remember that the entire foundational premise of a PMS is to maximize the number of new cells over time. To establish a perpetual constant flow of new cells. Intermittent periods of high-intensity create fluctuations of flow, and thus fluctuations of the rate of cell number growth rate.

Intermittently creating "surges" of daughter cells by increasing intensity also slows the growth phase of the cell cycle because more chemicals/nutrients are needed to support this growth. Maximum efficiency is attained by a constant "flow" that is supportable by the environment. Intensity only needs to be increased when said force is not inducing enough cells into mitosis anymore.

In other words, maintaining that level of force which can be maintained at all times would be more efficient in the long-term. (It would also minimize fibrosis which plagues vets of Penis Enlargement so much)

However, what you say you are doing is far superior to what a lot of Penis Enlargement practitioners employ. :D

Tom

Tom

the Sg has 900 1200 and 1500 gram settings. I can go as many of the waking hours as i can dedicate to doing nothing else. Every hour to two hours i need to take a short break of less than 5 min. The down side is that i can not do anything while wearing it. To me it is very limiting.

Now with the vlc and leg strap i can do almost anything. It provides around a pound of force. I have been using this almost all the time i can't be in the Sg. The only problem with this is when you get night wood it becomes uncomfortable. It wakes me up and off it comes. This set up can be used up to 4 hours before any break is needed but while using it during the day with moving around it tends to slip off every hour or so. Walking is not bad but getting up and down or in and out of the truck it will lose tension and work its way off.

I have noticed slightly smaller erections from this routine. It is probably eq issues from being just worn out from such constant work. I took yesterday off almost completely but the rest of last week was very full. I had some good hanging sessions back at 5 lbs and logged at least 4 hrs per day in the Sg. It is hard to estimate the time using the leg strap because i always seem to take it off sometime during the night but i would guess at around 10 hrs a day. I don't think i could be extended for more than 14-16 hrs daily.

I might try going around the shoulder with the strap to see if that gives a more constant tension. That has its own set of problems though.

Isprow. according to your theory.
Doing all day jelq with the right intensity(to grow) slowly increasing it might be the optimum?

rebel2011;475249 said:

Tom

the Sg has 900 1200 and 1500 gram settings. I can go as many of the waking hours as i can dedicate to doing nothing else. Every hour to two hours i need to take a short break of less than 5 min. The down side is that i can not do anything while wearing it. To me it is very limiting.

Now with the vlc and leg strap i can do almost anything. It provides around a pound of force. I have been using this almost all the time i can't be in the Sg. The only problem with this is when you get night wood it becomes uncomfortable. It wakes me up and off it comes. This set up can be used up to 4 hours before any break is needed but while using it during the day with moving around it tends to slip off every hour or so. Walking is not bad but getting up and down or in and out of the truck it will lose tension and work its way off.

I have noticed slightly smaller erections from this routine. It is probably eq issues from being just worn out from such constant work. I took yesterday off almost completely but the rest of last week was very full. I had some good hanging sessions back at 5 lbs and logged at least 4 hrs per day in the Sg. It is hard to estimate the time using the leg strap because i always seem to take it off sometime during the night but i would guess at around 10 hrs a day. I don't think i could be extended for more than 14-16 hrs daily.

I might try going around the shoulder with the strap to see if that gives a more constant tension. That has its own set of problems though.

Click to expand...

Sorry for the slow response...been a lot going on in my non-Penis Enlargement dominated life. LOL

I like the sound of what you are trying to do, and it fits in well with what I am trying to say within this thread. I don't see a problem with a "five minute break" every couple of hours.

However, and I know that I often say that most people use more force than is necessary, but one pound of force is quite a small load. The tensile strength of the tunica albungae is approximately 2 kg (about 4.5 lbs). One pound, although better than not applying any force , is probably not going to get you very much efficiency for the time that you are putting in the device.

We are inducing mitosis of the cells by increasing distance between adjacent cells, a "separation triggered mitosis", by using traction force. There have been no traction studies that I have found using such small forces. Even the modest gains reported within them, were achieved using an average of three pounds for at least eight hours daily over a twelve month period.

Be clear though, what you are trying to do is good. I haven't worked out a system for myself yet so I am not in a position to "rip" you. LOL I just wanted to point out that the force you are using with the leg strap is quite small and probably could be upped.

Check the threads that Dickleaker is contributing in. He is way ahead of the curve in actually getting a workable PMS system going for himself. I highly recommend checking what he is saying and doing to anyone who wants to give this PMS a shot.

As to the sleep period of the day. I believe that I have touched upon this on the forums here as well. The important thing to note about sleep, is that there is a significant blood pressure drop during sleep. The blood pressure drops by about 30% at about the two hour mark of sleep. So your ability to withstand the forces applied to the penis will drop correspondingly as well. So while a certain technique or force can be withstood while in the waking state at normal blood pressure, at the low point during sleep, circulation will be lost. (Traction specifically causes vasoconstriction anyway, so the combination of smaller diameter "pipes" and loss of blood pressure at the same time makes circulation significantly lower, and often leads to localized hypoxia within the penis.) After the two hour mark, blood pressure rises linearly for the next six hours back to its normal rate.

What that suggests to me, is that when one knows what level of constant force that he can tolerate without loss of circulation during the waking sixteen hour period, that he should only apply about 70% of that force before going to sleep. (That would be a maximum force for sleep, obviously, being more conservative would be safer. ) Perhaps, one day we will have a device that would regulate the force applied to the penis by monitoring and then adjusting to the varied blood pressure at any given time during the day or night...

I personally think the EQ issue is overblown. At least in the sense that it necessarily indicates how effective or not a particular exercise routine or technique may or may not be. There are many factors which effect EQ. Basically, we are usually talking about how "hard" or engorged the penis gets "on its own". Well, I forward the notion that if you are making significant progress at a relatively fast rate, your circulatory system cannot match this rate of "growth". The collagen cells that we are normally creating with mitosis to lengthen are penis are of the collagen types I and III which are quite agreeable to manipulation. (Type I is even unstable at normal body temperature and almost any force will induce mitosis, while type III takes slightly more force or a higher temperature to destabilize it.) However, arteries and arterioles, are composed of three layers of collagen. The relatively tough "middle" liner of the "tube" is composed mainly of Type IV and V collagen. Not only does mitosis of these cells require more force and heat than the weaker collagens they are often beyond the "reach" of a traction technique. They will "grow", these arteries, but the relative force or stress that they receive compared to the other collagens we "exercise" will be less. So they will "grow" at a slower rate respectively.

So if the "structure" of your penis is getting bigger at rate A, your vasculatory system in the penis will be getting bigger at rate B which is slightly slower. A bigger penis bigger by X ml will not get fully engorged by a vasculatory system that has gotten bigger by Y ml which has increased at a slower rate. In plain simple terms, a significant growth rate of the penile "fibrous" structure will always exceed the growth rate possible of the vasculatory system within it. There will always be a "lag" of some sort. The faster that you grow, the greater this lag will be. And until the ability of your penis to gather correspondingly larger amounts of blood, your EQ will suffer somewhat. So in some cases, loss of EQ can mean that a significant growth spurt has taken place, which is a good thing. :D

The shoulder strap is a good idea because it can utilize the constant force of gravity. I am not real familiar with the OTS (over-the-shoulder) techniques. The guys over in the hanging forums can get you up to speed with that.

Have Fun Brother,

Tom

dickerschwanz;478756 said:

Isprow. according to your theory.
Doing all day jelq with the right intensity(to grow) slowly increasing it might be the optimum?

Click to expand...

Ideally, if we weren't such impatient creatures by nature, we would start our Penis Enlargement journeys with almost zero force. And then continuously increase the force until we reached a point where we could no longer apply that force twenty-four hours a day. And then only increase that force when we could stand the increase twenty-four hours a day. :D

Sadly, we are impatient creatures, and cause delays to our potential growth by interrupting or "surging" the "flow" of a Perpetual Mitosis System. You see, we can easily stand higher intensities for short periods of time, but we fail to realize that the increased rate and number of new cells have only so much nutrients available to all of them so that they will be available to consume to become parent cells themselves. These "surges" to the overall flow of the cell cycle simply slow down the cycle or halt it until further resources are available within the body. "Hurry up and wait." (as you hear in the armed forces :D)

Yes, the fundamental basis of a Perpetual Mitosis System is to establish a constant (thus perpetual) flow of cells entering mitosis that can be maintained at all times, both by applying a constant force and at a rate that can be "nourished" so that the entire cycle of any given particular cell takes place within the minimum time period. Maximum return on effort. Maximum efficiency. Maximum growth over the lifetime of the entire Penis Enlargement journey.

Tom

P.S. I have no idea how one would jelq all day. But you would wind up with the strongest hand in history maybe :D

so how much sould the penis rest ?

Big_boy;479246 said:

so how much sould the penis rest ?

Click to expand...

depends on the amount of stress you put on it.

If you do it the way isprow proposes - just enough work to grow then you just need the night rest.
If you go all out with heavy exercises then you might need more rest.

In both ways you might grow...

There is no definate answer.

Irspow, I'm not questioning your mitosis thing, but if that is what causes the Penis to grow,( cells multiplying) then how is it that people like dld lose some size after taking some time off? The cells that filled in the gaps don't just go away if you don't pe right? DLD wrote on here somewhere that he didn't pe for a while and lost a couple inches; I'm just trying to wrap my head around it. Thanks

So after reading the whole thread I feel like how you explain penis growth also explain the whole “newbie gains” thing.
Most start out in Penis Enlargement by doing basic stretching and jelq.
High force (manual stretching) for a short time like 15-30 minutes per day should be the fastest and surest way to make our dick tougher and long term success less likely. Only way to continue to gain once the dick gets tougher would be a never ending need for using even more force and this is when most give up. A few continue never giving up adding more force and get big gains by using high force short time workouts but most see newbie gainst then hit the wall.

Do you agree this is why there are newbie gains for those “training” like this then they hit the wall?

If high force short time (HFST from now on) type of Penis Enlargement is the reason we hit the wall and need to use more and more force to continue to gain the exact opposite should be done with low force and long time. This way we “never” hit the wall and make our dicks tougher. We might not gain as fast in the first weeks/months but over a year or years we will gain more/faster to reach what ever goal we have since we are always moving forward. Growing as much/fast as we can without making our dick tougher which will just slow down growth.

Sounds about right?


Since extending the penis 24/7 is just not possible in the real world where we need toilet breaks,,sex and so on 12-16 hours is probably a realistic goal.
Extending for 12-16 hours straight with out any small breaks is also not realistic so I wonder how much will short 5-10 minute breaks during the day effect the growth/mitosic cycle?
If the mitosic cycle takes 120 minutes to complete and I start extending at 08.00am and for some reason must take a 5 minute break at 09.45am will the 105minutes I just spent extending be wasted? Will the parent cells pick up where they left off when I start extending again or is it back to square one?

If any parent cell that is in mitosic don’t get the full time they need (120min) and they go back to square one at any break would that not mean if we take breaks more often then every 2 hours we would get zero effect?
So the time we stretch without a break is just as important if not more then the total hours we stretch per day? 10x90minutes give less results then 5x2 hours since extending 90minutes is not enough for a complete mitosic cycle kind of?




How long must it be stretched?? Anything longer then normal flaccid is enough to gain max results?

How long do we need to stretch the penis.?
It says stretching it longer then it normal is will be enough but what do you really mean by that?
If your flaccid length is 3 inches but your erect length and flaccid stretched length is 7 inches then stretching it from 3 to say 5 inches would be “longer then it normal is” but is that enough? Would we not need to stretch it to its maximum flaccid stretched length or even longer?
If we use an extender we can change the force used so should the length we stretch to be decided by the force and not our flaccid stretched length or erect length?
So we set the extender to 500 grams for example and how ever long that makes us stretch we accept no matter if that just stretch us from 3 to 4 inches even if our max flaccid stretched lengh is say 7 inches?


Since HFST is a “bad” way to do Penis Enlargement will doing manual stretching in combination with long time extending be useless or downright bad putting us in danger of making our dicks tougher.
I was thinking about starting the day with manual stretching 15-20 minutes then use an extender all day long. Maybe even do a second session of manual stretching mid day.
Something like stretching+7hour extender then stretching+7 hour extender again.
After reading your posts Im not really sure if it would give me any extra positive effect or might just make me hit the wall and slowing down gains?



Once in the extender should we always stetch to the same length for the day even if we need to change the tension during the day or should we use the same tension all day no matter what length changes we might see during the day.
So if I start with 500gram tension in the morning and by the afternoon it only takes 400gram to keep that length should I turn it back up to 500gram and get a bit longer stretch or keep the same length to the stretch but the lower tension?
They guys that used too sell the static extender always said you should never let the stretch get shorter it must stay static. They seem to be the only guys preaching this so Im not sure if there is any truth to it. Might just been a marketing thing to sell their static extender.

You wrote a bit about girth in the thread so I wonder how much do we need to be expanded for mitosic to kick in? Above our normal flaccid girth which would be well under our erect girth or above our erect girth?


One last general question since you seem to know a lot about the inner workings of the penis.
I have long been wondering why 2 dicks with the same errect size can be so different when flaccid.
If everything else is the same. Age,race,body size,clothes and so on and with an erect size of say 6x5 one dick might be 2x2 and the other 5x4 when flaccid.
To me there seem to be 3 type of flaccid dicks.
Extreme grower/turtle dicks often growing 200% from flaccid to erect
Normal often growing 50-100% from flaccid to erect
Shower often close to erect size when flaccid might grow 10-25% from flaccid to erect

The other day I read that a dick can have 1,2 or 3 layers of tunica (not sure of true) with 2 layers being the most common.
When I read this I thought it could explain the grower,normal and shower flaccid dicks.
With the blood preasure being low/normal when flaccid the less layers (or weaker) of tunica one have the bigger once flaccid dick could be. More layers means the normal blood preasure is just not high enough and the dick stay much smaller when flaccid.

Do you or anyone else reading this agree that the layers (or strength) of tunic is the major factor effecting flaccid dick size? Or are there any other theorys for turtle vs shower flaccids?


Jesus that was long,,,happy growing to all.

watts;485307 said:

Do you or anyone else reading this agree that the layers (or strength) of tunic is the major factor effecting flaccid dick size? Or are there any other theorys for turtle vs shower flaccids?


Jesus that was long,,,happy growing to all.

Click to expand...

For me, flaccid size was very dependent on training my penis to stay extended. Uncle Jims Wrap was the thing I did that I think had the most influence and this was only 8 hours a day tops.