DLD: An observation on pre-PE size

Originally posted by goodbutnotgreat
First off, the comments about race and intelligence in a previous post were beyond ridiculous and completely offensive. As a fairly standard young WASP, I often have a difficult time keeping in line with a fully PC rhetoric, but suggesting that race bears significant correlations with IQ across the board is just ignorance.

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Actually the correlation between race and IQ is pretty well established. Asians are highest, whites next, hispanics next and then blacks. I think the assault on that correlation is that IQ isn't really a measure of intelligence, but some sort of cultural trivia test. There is also a correlation between religion and IQ, with Jews coming out on top in that contest.

It is fairly easy to substantiate these correlations with IQ tests, since you simply compile the scores according to whatever race or other factor you want to examine, and the correlations, if any, pop out. So to say there isn't an IQ correlation based on race is simply to deny the readily available evidence.

Whether one can demonstrate what IQ measures is something else again.

Originally posted by goodbutnotgreat
....what Red Zulu I think is his name, was saying can be absolutely correct as far as evolutionary science is concerned. While other posters were quite correct in stating that environmentally derived characteristics are not transferrable generationally, that does not mean that a large penis could not be emphasized over genetic drift influenced by cultural standards. If Samoan culture placed a societal premium on a large penis, as indicated by engaging in Penis Enlargement, than having a particularly large penis may have awarded them a better opportunity to pass on their DNA. Whether this was through greater status in the society, awarding them more wives or more resources, or any number of other possibilities, generally speaking anything that gives you a "leg up" in culture increases your reproductive success. This being said, if the guys with the biggest wangs were reproducing more in a society that placed a premium on large penises, then over time their DNA would become more prevelant. ANY culture where a man could advance his status and prestige through an advertised penis size would eventually produce a favorable proportion of hung dudes.

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good,
You're confusing 2 issues. Nobody denied that a culture which places an emphasis on penis size could, over many generations, actually raise the average penis size of that culture. That's perfectly understood & accepted. What Metal Ed tried to explain to RedZulu is that acquired traits cannot be passed down genetically.
If a man naturally has a big dick, then it's in his genes (no pun intended). He can certainly pass along that trait. But if a man was born with a small/average dick, but enlarges his penis with Penis Enlargement, HE DOES NOT ALTER HIS GENES. In other words, he still has small/average dick genes - and those very same genes are what he'll pass down. He CAN'T pass down "big dick genes" because he doesn't even have them. Remember? He was born small/average, etc. That is his genetics.
What's so difficult to understand? If I lift weights, will that make my children muscular? If a pale person tans deeply every summer, will that make their offspring darker???
Hell no, to both questions.
So how would "big dick genes" get passed along. Simple. By guys who were naturally big. Just like Michael Jackson can bleach the hell out of his skin & get his hair straightened, but the genetics he's passing along are those displayed when he was younger - not the "acquired shit" he did to himself.

Originally posted by bobbdobbs
Actually the correlation between race and IQ is pretty well established. Asians are highest, whites next, hispanics next and then blacks....It is fairly easy to substantiate these correlations with IQ tests, since you simply compile the scores according to whatever race or other factor you want to examine, and the correlations, if any, pop out. So to say there isn't an IQ correlation based on race is simply to deny the readily available evidence.

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This is more than well-known - it is, in fact, the basis of "Affirmative Action" in the U.S. Blacks are actually "given points" on entrance exams, job applicant tests, etc. Why? To try to close the gap which the testers know is already there.
That the IQs vary by race - even, to a degree, by gender - is well known. The controversy is over why.
By the way, I have a theory as to why the Jews, by religion, score the highest. It has to do with their study of Talmud - which begins at the earliest ages for boys. The Talmud is a collection of rabbinical writings spanning the centuries - religious debate, culture, dialectic, logic, etc. - the perfect classroom for growing the mind. Also, the study of Torah - considered every man's obligation. None of this is possible without intense reading - which I think also accounts for the Jews' higher-than-average literacy rates over the centuries (usually much more literate the average host population).

Well now, I never thought I would end up trying to substantiate my opinions in a scientific fashion on a penis enlargement website, but what the hell, this is interesting. As far as the evolution thing, I stated very clearly that I understand and agree that environemtally derived characterisitcs do not affect genetics, i.e. a bodybuilder does not prodcue buff kids, Michael Jackson should have babies with wide noses, and even the most hardcore Penis Enlargement'er would not pass his larger penis down the line. What I was implying is that evolutionary science is all about something known as reproductive fitness, which is esentially the catalyst for evolutionary direction. If you have characteristics that make you more fit to produce, which are esentially anything that makes you more desirable to the opposite sex or somehow better able to pass your genes around, then you have desireable genes, so to speak. Now, if the Samoans valued a big dick in society, and the men could advance their status and position by having a big one, then the men with bigger penises may have been having more sex, with more women, and having more kids, alloting themselves a greater share over the genetic index of their area with their more fit, better hung genes. I don't know that this was how it operated at all, I was simply saying that as far as evolution is concerned, it is very possible for culture to emhpasize penis size and that it most certainly probably does. Primate penis size in our closest realatives, chimpanzees and gorillas, is drastically smaller in proportion to body. The explanation for this is not fully flushed out but it would seem that with many other things, genetic drift has produced an emphasis on proportional penis size in homo sapiens. As far as the stuff about IQ and race, man I don't even know what to say. I guess I do, but it will take a while, don't bother reading anymore if you aren;t intersted in this facet of the debate because it's pretty much topical from here on in. Common knowledge? Not common to me I suppose, if you were willing to show me some legitimate scientific studies by university researchers that clearly stated all this I would feel a little better about it. While there may be some studies showing in limited selection groups that one race or ethnicity has scored better on IQ tests, let's not forget about things like socioeconomic factors and cultural norms as well. For instance, affirmative action is not based on certain races having lower IQ's. Some would say it is not designed to function strictly as a racial measure at all, and that is counterintuitive to the arguments I was hearing because affirmative action can apply to Asians as well, and I believe they were listed by some of you as the smartest group. Affirmative action is intended to level the playing field for minority candidates that come from backgrounds less conducive to college level study, and is rooted in a much deeper socio-economic concepts than strictly superficial race. It is definately engineered with diversity in mind, but that is primarily a result of the plain fact that minoirites suffer much higher poverty rates and many other factors not advantageous in the college process. If anything it is built on the belief that there is certainly no differance in racial or ethnic intelligence other than the intellectual and social opportunites we are given. Now, I have seen one study that is quite old, that demonstrates that black people score lower on IQ tests and that a few African nations have the lowest average scores on IQ tests. I saw this in my ninth grade history course and the teacher brought it in to explain how people use manipulative statsitics to place a simple explanation on complicated arguments. You see he had printed the study off of a white supremecist web site where it had been used in an article trumpeting the stats as final vindication that white people were the superior race. Total bunk. While I appreciate the distinction between IQ and intelligence, IQ is facotrable nonetheless as inate intellectual capability and is slightly more than any set of mental parlor tricks. So far as the study, I can easily say that in America black society, compared to white, is at a horrendous disadvantage. The proportion of young black males with criminal records or in jail, college educations, single mothers and whatever else you might guess is generally higher. Let's not forget that there was a seperate black educational system in this country until quite recent history, and no black education before that, unless the wanted to suffer some serious consequences. While education and IQ are different, there is such a thing as a trained mind, and all IQ researchers admit cultural bias for affluent society in IQ testing. Generally speaking wealthier mor affluent nations do better on national IQ averages, plain and simple, and it's not because Swedes are smarter than Pakistanis genetically. As for African nations scoring lower, well dudes, just take a look at Africa for a moment. Places like Liberia and The Ivory Coast are practically hell on earth right now, the comparison is not legit and there are far too many variables to just throw it all down to race. And in regard to asians being the msot intelligent, which asians do you mean? Certainly you would not say that a person from tibet is the same as a vietnamese? Or perhaps a Philipino is the same as a Japanese person or a northern Chinese, southern Chinese? There are a billion people in china, almost another billion in india, thats a lot of genes my friends, and hardly two genomes out there are the same (indentical twins excluded). To say one race, specifically suggesting there is some kind of "asian" race, is, i'm sorry, but inherently racist in itself. Asia is more of a geographic declaration than anything. If we follow that there is actually a valid sepeation of race here, shouldn't there be some kind of middle tier for say a mixed race, like my creole heritage friend from Orleans? Is she some kind of hodge podge of good IQ from her French grandmother and shitty IQ's from her black and indian grandfather? The more you break it down the less probable a racial distinction is. It seems more like comomon bias, especially the comment "it is generally known" or something to that effect. Generally known by who guys? Would you feel comfortable trying to enforce that opinion to a PhD of sociology, or biology, or psychology or neurscience for that matter? because from any three of those standpoints it doesn't really hold up. I would encourage you to step back and examine your feelings on this and see if they have more to do with intuitiion and assumption rather than empircal knowledge and true scholarship. We can't go around with that kind of mindset in the 21st century, it can only hold us back. DLD, if you're out there I would be curious to here what you have to say, I've been reading up on your stuff on here and you have some serious analytical capabilites and a frim grasp of argument. Shit man, you're sharper than a lot of my teachers when it comes to expressing your views, I'd love to hear your thoughts . . . although I think this thread might have most people by now . . .

IQ testing is a load of crap. This coming from someone who has an IQ of 138. Even mensah acknowledges that IQ tests are unfair. Intelligence cannot be determined by a written test, period.

Well Zeofein and Good.... have made EXELLENT points here.
Zeofein has basiclly backed up why we are given what we are..its his theory, but I agree some.
The Asians are smarter on IQ tests, than whites than Blacks.
So NATURE made it this way on average.......same with the dick size....the Asians are VERY clever on average while the Blacks aint.
But the Asians on average have small dicks......while the blacks are big.
The whites are just all over the show
Anyways....I reckon that theory is true.....nature did that to make it fair in some ways, for us to get mates.

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Waxn....we know you dont belive the gene thing I go on about.....you than compare it to Jacko and yourself weightlifting, sun-bathing and passing on tans, muscles and other shit.

You forget to mention AGAIN.....this would be one genaration...yourself.........not 1000's of GENARATIONS like I say.
A few years of messing about with ya body aint gunna pass jack shit on to the next bunch....but and I say AGAIN.....Many THOSANDS of years [1000 years] of persistance, dedicated work may very well do it.

...O yes and Spektrum I agree......written IQ tests are wank.
Poeple should not be judged what they do on paper....theirs degree students out their who cant do nearly any of the things I can....I aint a degree student, but having a degree gives some the idea they are the best....when they aint.

I go of face value.....I NEVER judge someone by their looks or the way they act....whats inside truley counts to me.
A Thick Black male maybe the best freind I may EVER have.

I'll get on board with saying IQ tests aren't a true indicator of much . . . too many variables, intelligence is just too broad to boil down into one conclusive test. I'm sticking to my guns that there is no difference in intelligence between races though. In my last post I mentioned that there isn't even reall and "asian" race when you think about it. Same for black people, white people, anybody else. The genes that go into creating the characteristics that we identify with race or such a tiny fraction of the genome it's almost negligable, and most of the physical differances between the so-called races is created by geographic accident and long-term environemtnal selection. But way back when a few million years ago or so when the human brain was still evolving into what we've got today, it took the same smarts for everybody to survive, and we lived in a much smaller geographic area back then and were probably all racially very similar. The brain is a tremendously complicated thing, and more than whatever racial label we slap on it goes into it's capabilities. Take 100 black kids, 100 white kids, 100 hispanic kids, 100 asian kids, 100 native american kids, 100 samoans, feel free to add anything else you want there, and give them all the exact same education and raise them in the same type of environment, then test their brain power however you see fit, but I gurantee you're aren't going to see a shred of statistical evidence that one group of kids came out somehow "smarter" than the rest. C'mon lads, one love, forget about parsing up different groups of people and focus on Penis Enlargement'ing like madmen . . .

Good - firstly since I know you're smart and use a lot of big words, you could paragraph so that it would be easier to see what point you are trying to make, from what I've seen your posts are a 'hodge podge' of 'mumbo jumbo'.

1. you can try to evade the reality that you've created with all the logic and stipulation that you want. Just accept the facts man. "21st century thinking" is "bunk". It's a fact that people were a lot smarter in the 19th century than they are now due to 'environmental factors' such as MTV.

Now you say there is not an "asian race" - excuse me, there are "sub-species" of the human race, we are all human, but there are three main types, negroid, caucasoid, and mongoloid. There is NO debating this because there are major differences in the facial, bodily, mental, and skin color.

You call me racist, I'm sorry but a racist is someone who DISCRIMINATES someone SOLELY on the fact of their RACE.
This is not what I was attempting to do in my post, I was laying out the facts of Penis EnlargementNIS SIZE due to RACE and/or Intelligence. Which both seem to have some sort of connection, and there is no denying this. -- Please don't resort to attacks on my character by referring to me as ignorant and racist. You have not the slightest idea to who I am or where I live. SO FYI I live in the INNER CITY of Atlanta, GA where the ratio is 75% black. If I was racist I wouldn't have survived very long. However, I myself have been subject to racism, which is the same reason every fight I've gotten into with was with a black guy and I WON EVERY SINGLE ONE. So that doesn't mean that ALL of them are strong. Which doesn't mean that ALL whites are smart. I've always went to schools that were ALL BLACK. So now, since I was subject to the same "Economic-Societal" factors, why was I the best student in the entire school? (this doesn't mean much since I was also had the highest grades in an ALL white military school in 10th grade) Why did I have a smaller dick than my black peers? Why was I weaker? (i did play on the football team though, 1 of 3 white boys) - My theory is based on OBSERVATION, where yours is based on Politically Correct "21st century" thinking. I think mine is more accurate.
Edit - i felt this had to be added - btw, with all your PC thinking and all, thanks to the ever-praised Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, ahem we have several places honored in his glorious name. One is a MARTA station, which is located next to one of the worst ghettoes in the city. Another is MLK JR Boulevard. A place that if I went to (less than a mile from where I am at) I would be stripped of my cash and/or offered crack in another ONE of the most decrepit, disintegrated, ugly places in the city. Yeah thanks DOCTOR KING!

Now when I stated the IQ table, I was not intending to offend anyone at all, if you took it that way, take the stick out from your ass, please don't bring a dick debate into a race debate, because you will only lose. I have the most observation and experience and knowledge on this matter.


This doesn't mean either one of the races DOES NOT have the capability to acheive what the others can. This does not mean that there are not dumb Asians, or smart Blacks, or strong Asians, or weak Blacks.
I'm picking on these two because they seem to be the most opposite, and whereas like RED said, whites are all over the board.

FINALLY, I'd like to say since I went to a military school, and I took showers with several guys every day I have this to say about dicks.
Russian - HUGE balls, average dick
3 blacks - one small (dorky, lame, unpopular, smart), one above average (average guy, smart), one HUGE (strong athlete, not smart)
French/half black/creole guy - Huge dick, large body, not smart.
"Nordic" white - (blonde blue eyes, avg intel) - above average
There was also a couple guys that surprised me, they were both white, one pale, one avg color, one SUPenis EnlargementR smart, one dumb as a rock. what confuses me is the smart one (unpopular, mean, asshole, nobody liked him) had a bigger dick than the black athlete (mean, unpopular, asshole). so that throws my theory out the window. the dumb one, also had about a 7" flaccid dick, but he wasn't athletic, and he was very unpopular.

So now is there a correlation between ATTITUDE and Penis EnlargementNIS SIZE ???

I'm just going to through this out there do with it what you want. I have an extremely high I.Q. Tested when I was younger I scored 147 on the Wechler Adult and Children Scales. Later in life I was admitted as an inpatient for my extreme O.C.D. at a highly acclaimed hospital in Brattleboro, VT where I took the California Test of Mental Maturity & the California Test of Cognitive Skills scoring high 140's on both. Just for kicks I took the online Mensa testing a couple years ago and passed with flying colors. My pre-pe size was above average at 6.5". Analyze me...please

ps: I went to an all black school in inner city DC. I am 100% Italian. I am an 8th grade drop out.

wow DLD that's really high, from what i understand 100 is average, and 130 is top 2% of the population, the most i ever got was a 136 on an IQ test on www.highiqsociety.com which i qualified for

140 and above is "genius" supposedly from what i hear

so you're a genius and worked your way to a gigantic cock, congratulations!

hey bro, i didn't mean to come off like i was attacking you . . . truly sorry for any mix-up. i never thought you were a racist, meaning that you actively dislike any races purely for their ethnicity. i just meant the idea of things like intelligence hinging on race is racist to my sensibility, in that it makes a judgement about somebody based purely on their physical appearance. i draw a clear line between racism and bigotry. i think to a degree everybody is racist, it's so fucking ingrained into our culture that escaping ideas of race and ethnicity is a herculanian task, but i also don't think it hurts to try. we are after all, trying to make our dicks grow, and many would say thats pretty crazy.

however, i wouldn't call what i wrote before "mumbo-jumbo," and if you go back and read it without the impression that i'm judging what kind of person you are it might make more sense, although when i looked at it, it is near impossible to read in a huge block like that. i appreciate that you have some cultural experience living in a black community, but what i'm expressing is more of a biological argument.

i acknowledged that there are certainly some physical differences that we can easily classify as certain races, but from a modern biolgocal standpoint these are overly generic and highly simplified. you mention victorians may have been smarter, i dunno man maybe you just dig the 1800's because that is a very victorian line of thinking. what i was trying, i guess pretty poorly, to express was that A) morphic patterns hold no sway over mental compacity which is certainly a product of specifically different and varied environmental factors, and B) the gene pool is vastly different and varied, even within the main types of racial distinctions that you outlined.

for instance, although you may qualify some black guy you knew in your old neighborhood as being the same racially as a another black guy you saw on the street, the two could be so vastly different on a genetic level that to classify their realtive intellectual capabilities based on race alone just doesn't work. say the other black guy is not an american, he's from kenya or something. the other black guy from your neighborhood comes from a slavery descended line that has been in america for hundreds of years. first thing, the black guy from your neighborhood most likely has a fairly large dose of white-european genes, as do a large percentage of all black americans, and second, he is quite genetically different than the guy from africa.

while certain traits like cycle cell anemia can make their way across centuries of procreation into modern society, things like intelligence are just too broad to be assigned to certain populations with superficial physical differances, that again, are the result of divergent population migration resulting in different physical manifestions of environmental preferance (i.e . more pigment in skin protects better against sun, more body hair keeps you warmer in cold wet climate, ect.) there's no reason to say the brain had to develop any similar specialized coping mechanisms, and the physical differences we assign as "race" really have only come about in probably the last hundred thousand or less years, which on the general evolutionary time table is too slow for true cognitive modification. the brain evolves quite slowly, although in a comparatively rapid fashion in humans, but based on everything biological anthropolgy indicates, racial chacteristics that we recognize today (mongoloid, cauchasoid, ect.) emerged after the blueprint for the brain was set, and there is no indication that general intelligence has been otherwise altered in specific populations.

i hope that is a little more clear about what i believe, which simply is that race is a societal construct, and while there is an extremely obvious difference in the many varied physical appearances of people, we tend to do the typical thing and bring this down to the simplest classifications possible and deal with them as such. if you were so inclined you could breed a goup of people for hundreds of years to be five feet tall, be almost albino snow-white and have extremely large heads. do this for a couple millenia, you may have a full blown sub-species or whatever, but if it's a good sized population (it would have to be a lot of pasty midgets to be a numerically usable comparison) is their ambient intelligence going to be statistically different than any other populations? i could illustrate it over and over again; that there is any such thing as a more intelligent race does not work scientifically. we might have had different experiences or whatever, but the fact is, it doesn't make sense when you break it down. email any professor or expert you please about it, they'll spit almost the exact same stuff at you.

i'm begging you to have an open mind about it. i live in the south, and back in the day down here the cultural elite justified slavery for years after emancipation under the pretext that whites were somehow more intelligent. because of this there was an enormous wellspring of more enlightened schoarship done to prove just how sili this was. even around the turn of the century there were PhD's who devoted their lives to trying to scientifically prove that black people were mentally inferior to justify a racist social system, and every single one of them was discredited or shown to be in the wrong by better, even-handed science. people might not have racist intentions by feeling that there is a racial inequality in intelligence, but it can have racist affects in society as a whole. we have to bury that kind of thinking. it doesn't do one shred of good for anybody.

you kind of sound to be pretty conservative to me, are you? the old military school is another tip-off on that. i have a friend that shipped off to the air force academy last year and he went from left to right so fast i barely knew the dude when he came back home. i don't know, i'm trying to keep an open mind but the stuff about martin luther king kinda confused me, wasn't sure what you were getting at with it. the comedian chris rock already articulated in his stand-up act how ironic it is that in many cities there are locations named after dr. king, but most are in black communities with serious social problems and violence.

my "21st" century line of thought isn't really new age so much as a desire for more progressive thinking. letting go of the idea of seperating people by race and rather viewing humanity as a collection of cultures is one part of that. ask any modern scientist, the idea of "race" isn't scientific in the slightest, it's a construct made by people, just our tendency to group things together to make information easier to work with.

as far as penis size, i play high school football at an academy that recruits pretty heavily every year, and we have a good share of the "large dumb athlete" type, white and black on the team. i tend to agree with what i read is DLD's main contension, that racial differences are highly exagerated. i would say the greatest sway on the scale would be that i have not seen many black guys with a very small penis, but some whites. i'd say that generally, very generally as there are numerous exceptions in all things, that black and white revolve around a restricted average, that being that about 75% or so are around the 6-7 range, with others falling where they may, although black guys may indeed have a slightly higher average overall. i couldn't really say for too many other body types. we all looked pretty bad after a game in some cold-ass weather yesterday . . .

DLD, i knew you were smart just from checking out this board, i don't have much experience with these things, never even posted before now, but this is one of the coolest and most intersting ones i have seen. i read your studies and sort of checked out your approach to all this, and i have to say it won me over pretty well and i'm as skeptical as they come. others make the case well too, but it's pretty obvious why you're the top guy for all this stuff (besides the fact that you have a ginormous dick). your explanations and arguments are even-handed and reasoned to a tee, you should be very proud of what you are accomplishing here; you've taken a muddled confusing topic that was previously dominated by scam artists and base-line insecurity and turned it into a supportive, constructive environment that has obviously attracted a lot of very smart and interesting characters. cheers bro, you're an example of many great things besides Penis Enlargement.

Originally posted by goodbutnotgreat
DLD, i knew you were smart just from checking out this board, i don't have much experience with these things, never even posted before now, but this is one of the coolest and most intersting ones i have seen. i read your studies and sort of checked out your approach to all this, and i have to say it won me over pretty well and i'm as skeptical as they come. others make the case well too, but it's pretty obvious why you're the top guy for all this stuff (besides the fact that you have a ginormous dick). your explanations and arguments are even-handed and reasoned to a tee, you should be very proud of what you are accomplishing here; you've taken a muddled confusing topic that was previously dominated by scam artists and base-line insecurity and turned it into a supportive, constructive environment that has obviously attracted a lot of very smart and interesting characters. cheers bro, you're an example of many great things besides Penis Enlargement.

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*So happy right now*

I needed that. I was feeling very useless today and this gave me a boost.

take it to heart bro, i really mean it. this is an amazing sight, if my parents didn't oversee the old bank accounts i'd be a member right now, but that will change the second i ship off to college and get control of some of my own finances . . .

imagine my excitement when i looked around at penis enlargement stuff just to prove to myself it really didn't work, then finding this . . . it's like christmas!

yeah, i may have been a bit extreme in trying to reply back.

i appreciate you being intelligent and nice about it.
thanks for not taking any offense or attacking me or anything, i did feel kind of offended, so i had to ramble off a real long post trying to defend myself or whatever.

i'm conservative, yes... but that doesn't mean that i'm not voting for the Democratic party next year. In fact I am, i do not like the people in power.

and yes, being in any kind of military institution has the possibility of brainwashing you, it definately did to me, i'd like to hear what SWM says about the Marines? i was thinking of joining the Navy when I turn 18.

as far a the MLK statement goes, it was sarcastic, but is along the lines of what Chris Rock was saying, that's it's kind of ironic that those places suffer social problems.

i also agree with what you said about the difference between African Americans and pure-blood Africans.

i also agree that there's not a major genetic disposition regarding intelligence between the races, all our brains are the same, that's true. so let's forget the black/white thing. why is it a common stereotype that asians are good at Math ?? even if they live in America, they are better, why ? is there something in their environment that trains them to be skilled in math ? counting thousands of rice grains per meal i suppose... j/k

Originally posted by zeiofen
wow DLD that's really high, from what i understand 100 is average, and 130 is top 2% of the population, the most i ever got was a 136 on an IQ test on www.highiqsociety.com which i qualified for

140 and above is "genius" supposedly from what i hear

so you're a genius and worked your way to a gigantic cock, congratulations!

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You sound very educated, I am enjoying your posts.

hey man, good call, i never meant to bash on you, i just had to throw my side ii, but i tihnk overall we are closer in views than it may seem. about the military, it's hard to say, it's a great experience for some but i have met plenty that thought it was the worst mistake they ever made. the good side is the possible college money and benefits, but you definately have to earn all that. I'm not that far from VMI and i've met a ton of their cadets, and it's pretty mixed reviews. my general feeling is that if you really want to be there it's greaet, if you weren't sure or just went because you couldn't think of anything better than it's pretty rough. VMI is one of the most disciplinarian places around though, way different than just joining the military. as for asians, they're just more hard working than all those lazy-ass as black people! (thats a joke in case anybody gets pissed) i wasn't trying to say being conservative is a bad thing either, i have about the msot old school conservative family around. i draw a big line between conservative thinking and buying into the current right-wing universe . . . who knows what that's about. i don't think a military life can brainwash you to be conservative, but the militray in any nation is traditionally on the right, it goes back about as far as armies do. on the other hand, you have good old wes clark stepping into the presidential race, and many other big shot generals throughout history that were socialy and economically pretty liberal. all this history and political talk has got me interested in looking up some evidence of Penis Enlargement through the ages . . . the egyptians used to think the first children were born by one of their gods ejaculating into his own mouth and impregnating himself somehow . . . that had to be a pretty well hung diety . . .

Metal Ed is right in all that he says. I have also taken a few biology courses.

Hydromaxm, seems like a few people are still checking this thread so i will toss my little two cents into the actual pre-Penis Enlargement size question. . .

nobody seems to deny that there are some naturally big dicks out there, it seems that the more trenchant question is how many, and is this number statistically so likely that a lot of chicks are going to have slept with guys with way bigger dicks than me?

based on all the things i've read on here in the last few days, i would be highly skeptical of there being more than say 0.5% share of nine inch penises in any group of 100 males, and i'll say of mixed ethnicity but i feel that would hold true for any combination, nearly all black included, but i would rather this exclude that variable for the moment. i feel 0.5% is actually very generous and that in reality the percentage is probably lower.

at 0.5% there should be one guy in a group two hundred with a 9+ unit. first of all, in all my life, whether it be flacid observation in locker rooms or viewing ����������� where you would think this size would be fairly common, it is not. i have seen one in real life that i thought may be near that size, but i was quite young and probably had some of the shock effect described by DLD as i was not fully mature at the time. even in ����� a full-fledged 9 incher is hard to come by, the very top guys in the "big dick" market boast a size somewhere around there.

now, if we have about 1 out of every 200 hundred guys running around with that kind of size, that means that in a city of say 100,000 . . . there should be about 500 dudes with that kind of size. even at this generous estimate, that's not a whole lot of guys, but it doesn't seem likely, because when you blow the numbers up to national or sometimes even regional proportions you're talking about hundreds of thousands of guys with a size potentially comparable to john holmes, and i think most would agree that a lot of these guys aren't just walking around. the very fact that the john holmes' and lexington steeles' of the world are mentionable is due to their extreme rarity.

that being said, all these women that have stories of guys with 9+, which seems to be the magic number for both men and women to razzle and dazzle with, i don't but it. first off, the argument that women can't measure can go on all day, best just to forget about it. now, say a girl is very sexually active, has sex with 20 guys by the age of 20. at 0.5% dudes having 9+ inches the odds that she encountered one are 0.1%, or one in a thousand! in our city of 100,000, theres 49,500 penises smaller than that walking around. when you play around with this number the odds against "the world full of big dicks" theory unravels even further. even if she sleeps with 60 guys, we're down to what, about like one in 300 or something, pretty much less than that. dude, pay me a million dollars to do something dangerous where there is only a 1 in 300 chance that i will die and you'd better believe i'll be all over that a dozen times or so before i even break a sweat.

it's a bell curve, plain and simple. the big guys, they're out there, all told over the US there has to be maybe hundreds of thousands of hugely hung guys. but there are millions on top of millions of far more normal guys. all these women that claim to have had penises that size are making it up or sorely mistaken, even of they're a woman who seeks that kind of thing out, the percentage that would actually be successful, let alone find more than one should be very very small. and man, if she's only been with five guys or less, she's about as likely to have a third arm or something. i would say the same goes proportionally for eight inches and such.

throw 8+ inches in the mix at an exceedingly generous mix of 2%. it's still a very small number of guys realative to the sample even a very promiscous women might sleep with. as DLD has quoted several times, only one survey has been conducted where there is no chance to cheat, and it scores pretty much right down the middle in the six inch range. i'd say common sense says to take that as accurate, if she swears up and down that she's had a 9 incher, you might want to hang onto that chick because she may win the lottery as well, but watch out during lightning storms. obviously she is prone to freak happenings.

*if you are dating a girl that says she has, and you disagree with what i've just said, please don't come after me, i'm not calling your girl a liar for kicks, i'm just calling it how i see it. there are other factors as well, ideas about bigger guys getting laid more and such, but the with the model i made up even some substansive factors don't eliminate the indication that it is extremely rare for any woman to experience a penis that size.