DLD: An observation on pre-PE size

Originally posted by WaxN
I must say, DLD, you are the David Hume of the dick world: you believe neither eyewitness accounts, surveys, or cameras - just sort of an a priori knowledge of penis size.
I must bow to such discriminating skepticism - you are the cock connoisseur par excellence ("cockoisseur"). I should prefer the destruction of my favorite ruler, than to disbelieve the limits of "human understanding" by accepting the value of the numbered gradients.....whatever that means.
Cheers...
I must be off for my Blasters (kudos for the exercise).

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Waxn, I'm with you on this one. I've posted similar views before, and gotten ragged about it. I do believe a lot of what DLD has concluded about �naked people movies�star size, but I know as well as you that there are natural 9" or 10"+. However, I think we all can agree that it's difficult if not impossible to find any dick that's truly 12" - or even 11 1/2". I posted a while back, about this chick's web site where this married white lady screws the biggest black cocks she could find. 10 3/4" was the largest, and she'd actually measured it. I got blasted, everyone saying stupid stuff about how bad she looked etc., but it's interesting to me to see "real world" accounts. This lady was searching for the "elusive 12 inch dick." I recently downloaded a few John Holmes clips, and I tend to believe with others that at his best he may've been 10 1/2" in length but his girth was great at least 7"+

I was excited to run across an old 70's video posted the other day, called "Mr. Footlong" and there was a preview pic of this skinny white chick holding a ruler on a black guy's dick. I was disappointed to find that the actual footage was obviously not an accurate measurement, you see her stretching this tape out and then they show the dick head almost at the 12" mark. He was standing up, with his dick hanging down. She held one end up around his pubic hair, and stretched out the tape. Freezing the frames here, unless he had 3" or more dick covered by pubic hair there's no way he was 12". Granted, he looked more flacid than erect, but the rest of the video showed him erect and not that large either.

As the ladies can probably attest, girth is much more desirable than length. I saw one video with a guy who couldn't have been more than 5" or so in length, but impressive girth looked kind of like a coke can - and it was obvious she was enjoying it

Originally posted by wesb
Waxn, I'm with you on this one. I've posted similar views before, and gotten ragged about it. I do believe a lot of what DLD has concluded about �naked people movies�star size, but I know as well as you that there are natural 9" or 10"+.

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Produce them and I will conceid

Originally posted by REDZULU2003
I am still stickin to ma guns
No offense but none of us are professors or anything....so what we say is our own opinion...hopefully based on fact.

I am convinced that over a long time it can be inherited,
I think you a misreading this and thinking a few 100 years....I am talking MANY 1000's of reguler years exercising.
I think that slowly [VERY] this will somehow effect the genes,,,,I dunno how but IMHO I think it will.

I dont care what you say your just a normal guy not a Biologist or anything like a Proffesor so I'll stick to what I think.

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Friend, I am a graduate student on my way to my Master's. But that doesn't mean anything.... pick up a book on evolution and see for yourself.

Originally posted by REDZULU2003
I also reckon that most BIGGER men some of us see in �naked people movies�....look bigger than they are as its our mind telling us their MUCH bigger than they are as we aint as large as them.

Plus imagery and video aint the best way of telling size accurate at all.
Even going of a girls hands, head and build etc aint accurate as they all vary.

At the end of the day we must GUESS GUESS GUESS and agree to disagree on this one.

We will only know the REAL size of __________ and Lex if they have a ruler rammed into their abs along their shaft......and ya know what??? I reckon they will not be as big as some of us think.

That picture of __________......the girl has TINY TINY hands.
I'd say his penis is 8.2/8.5 inches long.
With the girth in the 6 range somewhere.

Still Big but not 12 inches like before.

Another thing with �naked people movies�....they want to sell the film.....alas it must look convincing....it must work some of you think its bigger than it is....easy to do....the buisness want this.

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Agree on all points here....except I think __________ is a legit 10 - 11.

OTOH, he's claiming anywhere from 14 -16, so obviously that's a fantasy.

Fantasy. It's a virtual guarantee that some degree of fantasy is going into these hyped up �naked people movies� measurements.

The �naked people movies� industry is selling fantasy. They offer nothing else. Buying �naked people movies� won't make you smarter, better looking, or a better person. The only service that �naked people movies� offers is fantasy. And that is why we WANT to believe these insane measurements.... because we like to watch and fantasize that it's our own over sized penis in that video.

This would be the same even after 1000 of generations

-----

I cant see how any of you can back this up with solid evidence.
Like I cant with my claims...they are just MHO.

I havent seen any solid info' to dismiss my claims.

Developments in Science are going on all the time.....you never know...oneday I may be rpoved right????

I dont really wonna say much more on any of this.

Thanks to all of you who have taken part and had a REAL Adult discussion....thanks

Originally posted by doublelongdaddy
Produce them and I will conceid

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Well, IMHO it's not a case of "you're right until proven wrong." I could just as easily ask you to produce proof of your claims. While some of your photo analysations are interesting, it is obvious that photos can be manipulated to "prove" a length claim - i.e., using your methods and the same photos I could generate a believable pic "proving" a dick size larger or smaller.

I do concede that many tricks are used in �naked people movies� to exaggerate size. However, I have seen some amateur �naked people movies� video, where there is only one camera and obviously no special lense etc., in which I've seen dicks at least 10" x 7".

Agreeing to disagree,

wesb

First of all i am in no way an expert in this field, most of us aren't. But i do believe that natural huge dicks do exist. I don't know if this can be considered as part of the debate, but there is a genetic condition called "Fragile X Syndrome" which essentially is a form of mental retardation. It displays such symptoms as 'Macro-orchidism' (read: gigantic penis) in post-pubertal males, among many other genetic deformities.

I stumbled across an internet conversation that some random girl had posted of her and some guy who had this 'mutation' which talked about his penis size, and her wanting to see it and talking like a slut basicly. He claimed he was 10.3", at the time he was 17, and a virgin (as he was embarrased by his size). Also this had been measured by his doctor as he had been tracking his size since puberty. Another thing he claimed is he had enormous balls, so big that his orgasms lasted 40-50 seconds. He told a story of how a girl made him cum (his shorts were still on) and he came so much she got freaked out and left him coz she thought he had pissed himself!!

Fragile X Syndrome causes a guys penis to grow huge by way of a genetic defect, they even have a scientific name for it!, so what's to say there aren't cases of Macro-orchidism without the presence of the Fragile X Syndrome?

One of Waxn's points is that almost invariably, if someone posts about a large dick encountered in real life, immediately you see the same types of replies - basically implying that we or whoever the dick-sighter is can't judge size and therefore the dick wasn't really that big. Funny how no one EVER suggests that we erred on the short side

Estimating size from a photograph is one thing, seeing it in person is quite another. At distances of around 20 feet or less, our eyes function in true "stereo" 3D. I can look across the room at a variety of small objects, and I can estimate their size within 1/2" or so accuracy. I'm not especially gifted, in fact I'm near sighted. But because of the hobbies I did growing up, and work I did later, this was a skill which I developed - and most of us have this skill to some degree.

I've never claimed, nor has anyone on this forum claimed AFAIK, to have seen an "abnormally" large cock. I've seen a 9", Waxn and others have seen a 10" - sizes which btw are documented in some of the size studies and commonly accepted as the upper end of the size curve. And FWIW, both Waxn and I saw these on guys at 13 or 14 years of age. Yet, we are told that most likely it wasn't that big because our eyes deceived us, OR if it was REALLY that big then the guy MUST have done Penis Enlargement - through some secret father/son tradition, etc. It's almost as if there is some deep fear that a naturally large dick is somehow better than a Penis Enlargement'd large dick. Or perhaps, by believing that basically ALL large (9"+) dicks are the result of some form of Penis Enlargement or enhancement, this gives you positive reinforcement to achieve your goals.

I do believe in Penis Enlargement. And, I do believe that many or most male �naked people movies� actors probably use pumps, weights, Penis Enlargement or whatever they can do to enhance their package. BUT, I also believe that there are guys, admittedly a small percentage, walking around with a 9" or 10" cock that just grew naturally and not the result of any Penis Enlargement or other enhancement. Further, these guys are NOT "Abnormal" or suffering from some rare medical condition, they are just the lucky few at the upper end of the size curve, and as the common expression is they're "blessed."

Originally posted by mazdab8r
First of all i am in no way an expert in this field, most of us aren't. But i do believe that natural huge dicks do exist. I don't know if this can be considered as part of the debate, but there is a genetic condition called "Fragile X Syndrome" which essentially is a form of mental retardation. It displays such symptoms as 'Macro-orchidism' (read: gigantic penis) in post-pubertal males, among many other genetic deformities.nce of the Fragile X Syndrome?

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Maz, this is a great addition to the debate. This would also help skew the bell curve of those above the average mark.

Originally posted by wesb
Well, IMHO it's not a case of "you're right until proven wrong." I could just as easily ask you to produce proof of your claims. While some of your photo analysations are interesting, it is obvious that photos can be manipulated to "prove" a length claim - i.e., using your methods and the same photos I could generate a believable pic "proving" a dick size larger or smaller.

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I agree but I did prove my size in real life. When I went to film at JAZ's home in July he too was suspicious and asked me to measure myself in front of him which I did. I also allowed the gentleman from GQ magazine to do the same.

Originally posted by wesb
I do concede that many tricks are used in �naked people movies� to exaggerate size. However, I have seen some amateur �naked people movies� video, where there is only one camera and obviously no special lense etc., in which I've seen dicks at least 10" x 7".

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I have seen the same thing but we get back to the same debate on how they acquired this. We may never know but we all agree that it has happened through Penis Enlargement, medical related issues or naturally graced. These 3 things are enough to really screw up the actual numbers in the bell curve.

Originally posted by wesb
Agreeing to disagree,

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I love you wesb

Originally posted by wesb
One of Waxn's points is that almost invariably, if someone posts about a large dick encountered in real life, immediately you see the same types of replies - basically implying that we or whoever the dick-sighter is can't judge size and therefore the dick wasn't really that big. Funny how no one EVER suggests that we erred on the short side

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I think it can go both ways. My issue with seeing it in real life is we are still estimating. For all I know the penis Wax or you have seen may be bigger than you think. The point is the only real way to know is by a witnessed measurement.

Originally posted by wesb
I've never claimed, nor has anyone on this forum claimed AFAIK, to have seen an "abnormally" large cock. I've seen a 9", Waxn and others have seen a 10" - sizes which btw are documented in some of the size studies and commonly accepted as the upper end of the size curve. And FWIW, both Waxn and I saw these on guys at 13 or 14 years of age. Yet, we are told that most likely it wasn't that big because our eyes deceived us, OR if it was REALLY that big then the guy MUST have done Penis Enlargement - through some secret father/son tradition, etc. It's almost as if there is some deep fear that a naturally large dick is somehow better than a Penis Enlargement'd large dick. Or perhaps, by believing that basically ALL large (9"+) dicks are the result of some form of Penis Enlargement or enhancement, this gives you positive reinforcement to achieve your goals.

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I am only introducing these what if scenarios to further qualify our combined research.

Originally posted by wesb
I do believe in Penis Enlargement. And, I do believe that many or most male �naked people movies� actors probably use pumps, weights, Penis Enlargement or whatever they can do to enhance their package. BUT, I also believe that there are guys, admittedly a small percentage, walking around with a 9" or 10" cock that just grew naturally and not the result of any Penis Enlargement or other enhancement. Further, these guys are NOT "Abnormal" or suffering from some rare medical condition, they are just the lucky few at the upper end of the size curve, and as the common expression is they're "blessed."

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Agreed

Originally posted by wesb
One of Waxn's points is that almost invariably, if someone posts about a large dick encountered in real life, immediately you see the same types of replies - basically implying that we or whoever the dick-sighter is can't judge size and therefore the dick wasn't really that big. Funny how no one EVER suggests that we erred on the short side

Estimating size from a photograph is one thing, seeing it in person is quite another. At distances of around 20 feet or less, our eyes function in true "stereo" 3D. I can look across the room at a variety of small objects, and I can estimate their size within 1/2" or so accuracy. I'm not especially gifted, in fact I'm near sighted. But because of the hobbies I did growing up, and work I did later, this was a skill which I developed - and most of us have this skill to some degree.

I've never claimed, nor has anyone on this forum claimed AFAIK, to have seen an "abnormally" large cock. I've seen a 9", Waxn and others have seen a 10" - sizes which btw are documented in some of the size studies and commonly accepted as the upper end of the size curve. And FWIW, both Waxn and I saw these on guys at 13 or 14 years of age. Yet, we are told that most likely it wasn't that big because our eyes deceived us, OR if it was REALLY that big then the guy MUST have done Penis Enlargement - through some secret father/son tradition, etc. It's almost as if there is some deep fear that a naturally large dick is somehow better than a Penis Enlargement'd large dick. Or perhaps, by believing that basically ALL large (9"+) dicks are the result of some form of Penis Enlargement or enhancement, this gives you positive reinforcement to achieve your goals.

I do believe in Penis Enlargement. And, I do believe that many or most male �naked people movies� actors probably use pumps, weights, Penis Enlargement or whatever they can do to enhance their package. BUT, I also believe that there are guys, admittedly a small percentage, walking around with a 9" or 10" cock that just grew naturally and not the result of any Penis Enlargement or other enhancement. Further, these guys are NOT "Abnormal" or suffering from some rare medical condition, they are just the lucky few at the upper end of the size curve, and as the common expression is they're "blessed."

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wesb,
I think I can now grasp the magnitude of what an issue this is for some guys. In a way I'm sorry, but also a little perturbed. DLD implies that I'm either wrong or lying when I mention the 9" & 10" kyacks I've seen (when he says "produce them and I'll concede" = "I don't believe you."). I could go on and on with more ancedotal evidence, but what's the point? There are some on this board who refuse to believe that there are huge, natural cocks out there - and they're not as rare as 4-leaf clovers. So be it. And as you astutely pointed out, wesb, it's never suggested that we error on the small side, LOL. And why is it so difficult to believe that there are natural 9 & 10 inchers out there when a 13-INCH PLUS cock has been *officially* scientifically measured - non-bone pressed too, lads. We're talking at least 14" BPenis EnlargementL. There are probably guys writhing out there on the floor, curling into a fetal position just thinking about it. Sorry. Maybe the scientist didn't measure right, or he lied. Maybe the cock was only 7 inches, really.
DLD,
I'm surprised you would be so skeptical and dismissive of even measurements, when you were so badly flamed at �other forum� about your own measurement techniques & size claims. I respect what you've done with Penis Enlargement (no, I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass), but I gotta diverge from your views on this. I think your views on this issue are more than a little tainted by the OCD.
Red,
First you hit us with the 7.5" midshaft girth (which, incredibly, DLD never said a word about, even after you refused to provide a pics with a tape measure), then you insist that acquired traits can be inherited ("after 1,000 years") and posit that your opinion is just as valid as ours since we're not scientists (Okay, it's my opinion that a penis will turn into a vagina after 19 generations, and a vagina will turn into a penis after 22 generations. Fair enough?). But you betray yourself to ridiculous levels when you suggest that __________ is smaller than....um....you.
Okay, Red, you're bigger than __________, bigger than a Clydesdale, bigger than every man on earth. Feel better now?

Can someone produce 1 naturally created 10" cock? There is plenty of talk but I have yet to see one. Just 1...anyone? Post it in the �naked people movies� section btw.

Guys, I think we have let this get a little off track here....sort of like saying "Yep, another Amtrak train "sort of" derailed ........slightly". I think that once in a great while a naturally 10"+ penis can happen but, who can really guestimate what those numbers are? Nobody can. I have also come to believe that more men in �naked people movies� know about Penis Enlargement than let on that they do. Lexxington Steel is a fabulous example. He goes so far as to be quoted as saying "There is absolutely (stressing absolutely of course) no way a man can make his penis bigger without surgery." But, those of us who have seen him get bigger over his career know better dont we? Who knows why these guys wont openly admit that they have done or continue to do Penis Enlargement? Fear of competition? Fear of loss of face? Fear their reputation will be tainted somehow? Pride? So, can the underwear a boy does or does not wear during adolescence affect his penis size? That's another issue that will most likely never be resolved. It's fun to speculate all we want but, really guys...how will we ever know? LOL. I mean you cant really hope by polling a couple thousand guys on a Penis Enlargement forum ...especially when only 20 may reply...to reach a concrete conclusion on that issue can you? I think women sometimes have it easier than us men. There are many more women who have naturally larger or trully huge breasts than men with large or huge penises. It's also much more accepted for a woman to desire larger breasts ....especially when it's for the better-ment of her self esteem.....(riiiight)...than for a man to want a bigger penis....we're selfish chauvanistic pigs if we want that. Surgery for breast enlargement is a damn exact science these days and pretty much is guaranteed successful...whereas Phalliplasty may or may not have a successful result...and cost just as much if not more. ok, I have officially rambled for the day.

I was gobsmacked to see these commetns by Waxn....I was never hostile....just voicing my HO.....no need to be like this.

I know you dought....fait enough thats fine..I couldnt give a fucking toss tobe frank....but please act like an adult.

All this keeps getting REAPenis EnlargementD UP again and again.

Theirs things in this post that should of been new posts.
But anyways.....one answer to the crap ya posted just tome.

DLD did not question my size...as its REAL.
He knows its real.

Simple as.

Now handle it.
Get ya arse into gear.,,,,act like an adult.....help me dont work against me I can be a BIG freind to you.
And get exercising....you can be BIG ....My freind......can the hostile twisted thoughts........it wont do ya mind anygood...I wish u well and hope you can leave this bullshiet in the vault where it belongs.

cya

Waxn, I disagree with your comments on this. In such an internet environment, it is very natural to be skeptic about penis size. Look at those pics at blacksonblondes.com, most of the big dicks show signs of Penis Enlargement. Of course, there are natural big ones among men from every races. No one is refusing to accept it.

Originally posted by teoman
Waxn, I disagree with your comments on this. In such an internet environment, it is very natural to be skeptic about penis size. Look at those pics at blacksonblondes.com, most of the big dicks show signs of Penis Enlargement. Of course, there are natural big ones among men from every races. No one is refusing to accept it.

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As a Penis Enlargement newbie, I must ask what the "signs of Penis Enlargement" might be. I never knew there were obvious distinguishing factors.

Originally posted by penguinsfan
As a Penis Enlargement newbie, I must ask what the "signs of Penis Enlargement" might be. I never knew there were obvious distinguishing factors.

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Some guys will say things like; discoloration like mine near the circ scar, more vienieness than usual (I dont think thats a good one), a bloated look (sign of pumping), an unusual taper, cone, or baseball bat shape, ...or the most obvious one ....seeing them get bigger over the course of several films. LOL. Lexxington Steele and Peter North are both "guilty" of that one.

penguinsfan, there are so many signs. It was discussed at �other PE site� in one of my posts ''Signs of Penis Enlargement''. Sorry but I don't know how to give a link to that thread.

Hey yall should pay attention to what mazdab8r said. read his post over.

I think i have recognized a major factor determining Pre=Penis Enlargement natural size.

I think INTELLIGENCE has some correlating factor determining penis size. I know it sounds far out and wild but just hear me out.

I have a brother who is ... well not mentally retarded, but just about half way there. He's ... just real dumb, I love him, so don't think I'm jealous cuz he gets girls and has a big dick. My brother's dick is about 8 1/2" naturally, now I'm born with just a average 6", (now I am barely hitting 7" thanks to Penis Enlargement)

That's one example. I have another a good friend of mine about the same size 8" max. He's not all to smart either.

Now does anybody have the image in their head of a nerdy computer geek carrying a monster dick ?? No, we all think of him as the "pencil dick". Who do we think of with big dicks ?? Football players, and just generally dumbass dudes.

Now I won't go as far to say that whoever has a 7" or above dick isn't intelligent, but do you see where I'm going with this here?

This can apply to race as well, it's a well known fact, so don't call me prejudice or anything, from studies across the globe, that blacks are generally lower IQ, whites are the average, and asians are the smart ones.

Do you see where I'm going with this? Black- big dick, white- average, asian - modest.

Now WHY would this be true? Well smart people tend to make a lot of money, which is what attracts their women, they don't NEED a big dick.

Whereas no matter how smart or rich you are, women will cheat on their small dicked smart rich husbands, and fuck the muscled big dick man of their fantasy whether he's smart or not!

Now think of this: if you are dumb AND you don't have a big dick, no women will want you, therefore you WON'T pass on your genes.

Sorry this is a theory of mine, I think it has a big impact on dick size, believe it or not. and back to the race factor, there's smart black guys, OF COURSE, and guess what ??? i've seen them naked and they have SMALL DICKS!!!!!

SO am i wrong or what ????!?!

-zeiofen
17 years old
7 INCH FINALLY!!!

hi all, this is my first post on any of these boards, forgive me if it's boring or doesn't advance the topic appropriately, I'm new to all of this. First off, the comments about race and intelligence in a previous post were beyond ridiculous and completely offensive. As a fairly standard young WASP, I often have a difficult time keeping in line with a fully PC rhetoric, but suggesting that race bears significant correlations with IQ across the board is just ignorance. I have gleamed that calling somebodey stupid on these boards is frowned upon, but I would suggest that plastering ass-backwards racist philosophies on a penis enlargement forum is an equally regrettable offense. Secondly, and this is a throw back to an older segment of the conversation, but I fealt compelled to weigh in, what Red Zulu I think is his name, was saying can be absolutely correct as far as evolutionary science is concerned. While other posters were quite correct in stating that environmentally derived characteristics are not transferrable generationally, that does not mean that a large penis could not be emphasized over genetic drift influenced by cultural standards. If Samoan culture placed a societal premium on a large penis, as indicated by engaging in Penis Enlargement, than having a particularly large penis may have awarded them a better opportunity to pass on their DNA. Whether this was through greater status in the society, awarding them more wives or more resources, or any number of other possibilities, generally speaking anything that gives you a "leg up" in culture increases your reproductive success. This being said, if the guys with the biggest wangs were reproducing more in a society that placed a premium on large penises, then over time their DNA would become more prevelant. ANY culture where a man could advance his status and prestige through an advertised penis size would eventually produce a favorable proportion of hung dudes. As for the video stuff, I have looked at some of DLD's studies, and based on what I know about optics and such he generally has a very good point in saying that the "big dick" driven �naked people movies� market is filled with distortion. There are some very large penises in the small amount that I have seen, but I have experience in some digital video work through friends, and the tell tale signs of manipulation are present in pretty much all of the current �naked people movies� I have seen. Even in the videos featuring very well-endowed men. Well, sorry for the long post, you all are a spirited group of debaters!

Welcome Good... we all agree as well as disagree sometimes. Everyones opinion is valuable to a good forum for healthy discussion.