1.2 to 1.5 kg for 4 to 6 hours? That will work :D How long do you suppose that you could go with a 1/2 to 3/4 of a kilo?

Remember that the entire foundational premise of a PMS is to maximize the number of new cells over time. To establish a perpetual constant flow of new cells. Intermittent periods of high-intensity create fluctuations of flow, and thus fluctuations of the rate of cell number growth rate.

Intermittently creating "surges" of daughter cells by increasing intensity also slows the growth phase of the cell cycle because more chemicals/nutrients are needed to support this growth. Maximum efficiency is attained by a constant "flow" that is supportable by the environment. Intensity only needs to be increased when said force is not inducing enough cells into mitosis anymore.

In other words, maintaining that level of force which can be maintained at all times would be more efficient in the long-term. (It would also minimize fibrosis which plagues vets of Penis Enlargement so much)

However, what you say you are doing is far superior to what a lot of Penis Enlargement practitioners employ. :D

Tom
 
Tom

the [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Sg[/words] has 900 1200 and 1500 gram settings. I can go as many of the waking hours as i can dedicate to doing nothing else. Every hour to two hours i need to take a short break of less than 5 min. The down side is that i can not do anything while wearing it. To me it is very limiting.

Now with the [words=http://TLCTugger.com/MOS]vlc[/words] and leg strap i can do almost anything. It provides around a pound of force. I have been using this almost all the time i can't be in the [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Sg[/words]. The only problem with this is when you get night wood it becomes uncomfortable. It wakes me up and off it comes. This set up can be used up to 4 hours before any break is needed but while using it during the day with moving around it tends to slip off every hour or so. Walking is not bad but getting up and down or in and out of the truck it will lose tension and work its way off.

I have noticed slightly smaller erections from this routine. It is probably eq issues from being just worn out from such constant work. I took yesterday off almost completely but the rest of last week was very full. I had some good hanging sessions back at 5 lbs and logged at least 4 hrs per day in the [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Sg[/words]. It is hard to estimate the time using the leg strap because i always seem to take it off sometime during the night but i would guess at around 10 hrs a day. I don't think i could be extended for more than 14-16 hrs daily.

I might try going around the shoulder with the strap to see if that gives a more constant tension. That has its own set of problems though.
 
rebel2011;475249 said:
Tom

the [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Sg[/words] has 900 1200 and 1500 gram settings. I can go as many of the waking hours as i can dedicate to doing nothing else. Every hour to two hours i need to take a short break of less than 5 min. The down side is that i can not do anything while wearing it. To me it is very limiting.

Now with the [words=http://TLCTugger.com/MOS]vlc[/words] and leg strap i can do almost anything. It provides around a pound of force. I have been using this almost all the time i can't be in the [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Sg[/words]. The only problem with this is when you get night wood it becomes uncomfortable. It wakes me up and off it comes. This set up can be used up to 4 hours before any break is needed but while using it during the day with moving around it tends to slip off every hour or so. Walking is not bad but getting up and down or in and out of the truck it will lose tension and work its way off.

I have noticed slightly smaller erections from this routine. It is probably eq issues from being just worn out from such constant work. I took yesterday off almost completely but the rest of last week was very full. I had some good hanging sessions back at 5 lbs and logged at least 4 hrs per day in the [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Sg[/words]. It is hard to estimate the time using the leg strap because i always seem to take it off sometime during the night but i would guess at around 10 hrs a day. I don't think i could be extended for more than 14-16 hrs daily.

I might try going around the shoulder with the strap to see if that gives a more constant tension. That has its own set of problems though.

Sorry for the slow response...been a lot going on in my non-Penis Enlargement dominated life. LOL

I like the sound of what you are trying to do, and it fits in well with what I am trying to say within this thread. I don't see a problem with a "five minute break" every couple of hours.

However, and I know that I often say that most people use more force than is necessary, but one pound of force is quite a small load. The tensile strength of the tunica albungae is approximately 2 kg (about 4.5 lbs). One pound, although better than not applying any force :), is probably not going to get you very much efficiency for the time that you are putting in the device.

We are inducing mitosis of the cells by increasing distance between adjacent cells, a "separation triggered mitosis", by using [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]traction[/words] force. There have been no [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]traction[/words] studies that I have found using such small forces. Even the modest gains reported within them, were achieved using an average of three pounds for at least eight hours daily over a twelve month period.

Be clear though, what you are trying to do is good. I haven't worked out a system for myself yet so I am not in a position to "rip" you. LOL I just wanted to point out that the force you are using with the leg strap is quite small and probably could be upped.

Check the threads that Dickleaker is contributing in. He is way ahead of the curve in actually getting a workable PMS system going for himself. I highly recommend checking what he is saying and doing to anyone who wants to give this PMS a shot.

As to the sleep period of the day. I believe that I have touched upon this on the forums here as well. The important thing to note about sleep, is that there is a significant blood pressure drop during sleep. The blood pressure drops by about 30% at about the two hour mark of sleep. So your ability to withstand the forces applied to the penis will drop correspondingly as well. So while a certain technique or force can be withstood while in the waking state at normal blood pressure, at the low point during sleep, circulation will be lost. (Traction specifically causes vasoconstriction anyway, so the combination of smaller diameter "pipes" and loss of blood pressure at the same time makes circulation significantly lower, and often leads to localized hypoxia within the penis.) After the two hour mark, blood pressure rises linearly for the next six hours back to its normal rate.

What that suggests to me, is that when one knows what level of constant force that he can tolerate without loss of circulation during the waking sixteen hour period, that he should only apply about 70% of that force before going to sleep. (That would be a maximum force for sleep, obviously, being more conservative would be safer. :)) Perhaps, one day we will have a device that would regulate the force applied to the penis by monitoring and then adjusting to the varied blood pressure at any given time during the day or night...

I personally think the EQ issue is overblown. At least in the sense that it necessarily indicates how effective or not a particular exercise routine or technique may or may not be. There are many factors which effect EQ. Basically, we are usually talking about how "hard" or engorged the penis gets "on its own". Well, I forward the notion that if you are making significant progress at a relatively fast rate, your circulatory system cannot match this rate of "growth". The collagen cells that we are normally creating with mitosis to lengthen are penis are of the collagen types I and III which are quite agreeable to manipulation. (Type I is even unstable at normal body temperature and almost any force will induce mitosis, while type III takes slightly more force or a higher temperature to destabilize it.) However, arteries and arterioles, are composed of three layers of collagen. The relatively tough "middle" liner of the "tube" is composed mainly of Type IV and V collagen. Not only does mitosis of these cells require more force and heat than the weaker collagens they are often beyond the "reach" of a [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]traction[/words] technique. They will "grow", these arteries, but the relative force or stress that they receive compared to the other collagens we "exercise" will be less. So they will "grow" at a slower rate respectively.

So if the "structure" of your penis is getting bigger at rate A, your vasculatory system in the penis will be getting bigger at rate B which is slightly slower. A bigger penis bigger by X ml will not get fully engorged by a vasculatory system that has gotten bigger by Y ml which has increased at a slower rate. In plain simple terms, a significant growth rate of the penile "fibrous" structure will always exceed the growth rate possible of the vasculatory system within it. There will always be a "lag" of some sort. The faster that you grow, the greater this lag will be. And until the ability of your penis to gather correspondingly larger amounts of blood, your EQ will suffer somewhat. So in some cases, loss of EQ can mean that a significant growth spurt has taken place, which is a good thing. :D

The shoulder strap is a good idea because it can utilize the constant force of gravity. I am not real familiar with the OTS (over-the-shoulder) techniques. The guys over in the hanging forums can get you up to speed with that.

Have Fun Brother,

Tom
 
dickerschwanz;478756 said:
Isprow. according to your theory.
Doing all day jelq with the right intensity(to grow) slowly increasing it might be the optimum?

Ideally, if we weren't such impatient creatures by nature, we would start our Penis Enlargement journeys with almost zero force. And then continuously increase the force until we reached a point where we could no longer apply that force twenty-four hours a day. And then only increase that force when we could stand the increase twenty-four hours a day. :D

Sadly, we are impatient creatures, and cause delays to our potential growth by interrupting or "surging" the "flow" of a Perpetual Mitosis System. You see, we can easily stand higher intensities for short periods of time, but we fail to realize that the increased rate and number of new cells have only so much nutrients available to all of them so that they will be available to consume to become parent cells themselves. These "surges" to the overall flow of the cell cycle simply slow down the cycle or halt it until further resources are available within the body. "Hurry up and wait." (as you hear in the armed forces :D)

Yes, the fundamental basis of a Perpetual Mitosis System is to establish a constant (thus perpetual) flow of cells entering mitosis that can be maintained at all times, both by applying a constant force and at a rate that can be "nourished" so that the entire cycle of any given particular cell takes place within the minimum time period. Maximum return on effort. Maximum efficiency. Maximum growth over the lifetime of the entire Penis Enlargement journey.

Tom

P.S. I have no idea how one would jelq all day. But you would wind up with the strongest hand in history maybe :D
 
Big_boy;479246 said:
so how much sould the penis rest ?

depends on the amount of stress you put on it.

If you do it the way isprow proposes - just enough work to grow then you just need the night rest.
If you go all out with heavy exercises then you might need more rest.

In both ways you might grow...

There is no definate answer.
 
Irspow, I'm not questioning your mitosis thing, but if that is what causes the Penis to grow,( cells multiplying) then how is it that people like dld lose some size after taking some time off? The cells that filled in the gaps don't just go away if you don't pe right? DLD wrote on here somewhere that he didn't pe for a while and lost a couple inches; I'm just trying to wrap my head around it. Thanks
 
So after reading the whole thread I feel like how you explain penis growth also explain the whole “newbie gains” thing.
Most start out in Penis Enlargement by doing basic stretching and jelq.
High force (manual stretching) for a short time like 15-30 minutes per day should be the fastest and surest way to make our dick tougher and long term success less likely. Only way to continue to gain once the dick gets tougher would be a never ending need for using even more force and this is when most give up. A few continue never giving up adding more force and get big gains by using high force short time workouts but most see newbie gainst then hit the wall.

Do you agree this is why there are newbie gains for those “training” like this then they hit the wall?

If high force short time (HFST from now on) type of Penis Enlargement is the reason we hit the wall and need to use more and more force to continue to gain the exact opposite should be done with low force and long time. This way we “never” hit the wall and make our dicks tougher. We might not gain as fast in the first weeks/months but over a year or years we will gain more/faster to reach what ever goal we have since we are always moving forward. Growing as much/fast as we can without making our dick tougher which will just slow down growth.

Sounds about right?


Since extending the penis 24/7 is just not possible in the real world where we need toilet breaks,,sex and so on 12-16 hours is probably a realistic goal.
Extending for 12-16 hours straight with out any small breaks is also not realistic so I wonder how much will short 5-10 minute breaks during the day effect the growth/mitosic cycle?
If the mitosic cycle takes 120 minutes to complete and I start extending at 08.00am and for some reason must take a 5 minute break at 09.45am will the 105minutes I just spent extending be wasted? Will the parent cells pick up where they left off when I start extending again or is it back to square one?

If any parent cell that is in mitosic don’t get the full time they need (120min) and they go back to square one at any break would that not mean if we take breaks more often then every 2 hours we would get zero effect?
So the time we stretch without a break is just as important if not more then the total hours we stretch per day? 10x90minutes give less results then 5x2 hours since extending 90minutes is not enough for a complete mitosic cycle kind of?




How long must it be stretched?? Anything longer then normal flaccid is enough to gain max results?

How long do we need to stretch the penis.?
It says stretching it longer then it normal is will be enough but what do you really mean by that?
If your flaccid length is 3 inches but your erect length and flaccid stretched length is 7 inches then stretching it from 3 to say 5 inches would be “longer then it normal is” but is that enough? Would we not need to stretch it to its maximum flaccid stretched length or even longer?
If we use an [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]extender[/words] we can change the force used so should the length we stretch to be decided by the force and not our flaccid stretched length or erect length?
So we set the [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]extender[/words] to 500 grams for example and how ever long that makes us stretch we accept no matter if that just stretch us from 3 to 4 inches even if our max flaccid stretched lengh is say 7 inches?


Since HFST is a “bad” way to do Penis Enlargement will doing manual stretching in combination with long time extending be useless or downright bad putting us in danger of making our dicks tougher.
I was thinking about starting the day with manual stretching 15-20 minutes then use an [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]extender[/words] all day long. Maybe even do a second session of manual stretching mid day.
Something like stretching+7hour [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]extender[/words] then stretching+7 hour [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]extender[/words] again.
After reading your posts Im not really sure if it would give me any extra positive effect or might just make me hit the wall and slowing down gains?



Once in the [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]extender[/words] should we always stetch to the same length for the day even if we need to change the tension during the day or should we use the same tension all day no matter what length changes we might see during the day.
So if I start with 500gram tension in the morning and by the afternoon it only takes 400gram to keep that length should I turn it back up to 500gram and get a bit longer stretch or keep the same length to the stretch but the lower tension?
They guys that used too sell the static [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]extender[/words] always said you should never let the stretch get shorter it must stay static. They seem to be the only guys preaching this so Im not sure if there is any truth to it. Might just been a marketing thing to sell their static [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]extender[/words].

You wrote a bit about girth in the thread so I wonder how much do we need to be expanded for mitosic to kick in? Above our normal flaccid girth which would be well under our erect girth or above our erect girth?


One last general question since you seem to know a lot about the inner workings of the penis.
I have long been wondering why 2 dicks with the same errect size can be so different when flaccid.
If everything else is the same. Age,race,body size,clothes and so on and with an erect size of say 6x5 one dick might be 2x2 and the other 5x4 when flaccid.
To me there seem to be 3 type of flaccid dicks.
Extreme grower/turtle dicks often growing 200% from flaccid to erect
Normal often growing 50-100% from flaccid to erect
Shower often close to erect size when flaccid might grow 10-25% from flaccid to erect

The other day I read that a dick can have 1,2 or 3 layers of tunica (not sure of true) with 2 layers being the most common.
When I read this I thought it could explain the grower,normal and shower flaccid dicks.
With the blood preasure being low/normal when flaccid the less layers (or weaker) of tunica one have the bigger once flaccid dick could be. More layers means the normal blood preasure is just not high enough and the dick stay much smaller when flaccid.

Do you or anyone else reading this agree that the layers (or strength) of tunic is the major factor effecting flaccid dick size? Or are there any other theorys for turtle vs shower flaccids?


Jesus that was long,,,happy growing to all.
 
watts;485307 said:
Do you or anyone else reading this agree that the layers (or strength) of tunic is the major factor effecting flaccid dick size? Or are there any other theorys for turtle vs shower flaccids?


Jesus that was long,,,happy growing to all.

For me, flaccid size was very dependent on training my penis to stay extended. [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?44-Ace-Strapped-Jims-Joint]Uncle Jims[/words] Wrap was the thing I did that I think had the most influence and this was only 8 hours a day tops.
 
I've been so happy about my temp gain in the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98]x40[/words] that I got a little overzealous, and seemed to come about less expanded than usual with it. Still crazy swole, but I notice the little guy is resenting those extra sets <:(. There's almost no rest required in PE if you train the right amount of times at the right intensity:blush:
 
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templnite;681791 said:
I've been so happy about my temp gain in the [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98]x40[/words] that I got a little overzealous, and seemed to come about less expanded than usual with it. Still crazy swole, but I notice the little guy is resenting those extra sets <:(. There's almost no rest required in PE if you train the right amount of times at the right intensity:blush:

You are using the Wine-Vac too, right?
 
I've been taking the weekend off like swm and I have way sicker expansion after those two days off. I have way more discoloration the day back on though, good thing it only lasts about one day before going back to normal.
 
templnite;686015 said:
I've been taking the weekend off like swm and I have way sicker expansion after those two days off. I have way more discoloration the day back on though, good thing it only lasts about one day before going back to normal.

As long as it is not sticking around you should be fine. Just don't over pump and try to keep it balanced with some [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/penis-enlargement-forum/12539-slow-squash-jelq-nothing-give-me-better-expansion.html]SSJ[/words] or jelqs and at the end get in some massage.
 
Yeah I do the on where I roll the cock like dough, that always helps get out most of it. There's still some redness left over but that goes away in a night
 
templnite;686287 said:
Yeah I do the on where I roll the cock like dough, that always helps get out most of it. There's still some redness left over but that goes away in a night

Like you are warming your hands?
 
Hi_I_AM_neW19;472883 said:
We know that Pe gives gains,ok,in this 4-5 years in Pe i understood many things about it,but i suddenly realize that rest have something with it and I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE what is happening down there.I am also fan of that all days stretching for 7 days a week and yes,sounds beautiful,but i now realize that after 2,3 weeks of stretching and then resting 4-5 days i can see the results.How much penis should rest???? The muscles need 24-48 hours for recovery,how much the penis need? I now i can gain more if i realize whats happening with the rest and penis enlargement...but now i don't have any idea.

I train 7 days of the week and rarely take off days. But I will be embarking on a 7 days break in June. But it might as well not be up to 7 days, maybe 4 to 5 days.
 
huge-girth;759343 said:
I train 7 days of the week and rarely take off days. But I will be embarking on a 7 days break in June. But it might as well not be up to 7 days, maybe 4 to 5 days.

The break is for measurements?
 
Wow, what happened to this thread?
Right when we were about to learn that most things we've been doing are wrong...

The member who started the thread was banned and that’s probably why the thread got buried. But there are many incredible threads that people never see that are buried deep in the forum that’s why it’s smart to go through old threads.
 
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I hate when people get banned... but even so he was around for two years after the start of this thread, so not sure why he couldn’t of made a follow up report showing that his ideas produced the ultimate penis in 6 months...?

The thought behind some of Tom’s ideas and theories is a great read and should be used for reference in putting together a successful PE routine but I just don’t buy the fact that traditional PE is not effective - kinda the indirect point of the thread.

24 hour medium force PE may be the magic ticket but the closest thing to that is the SiliStretcher-2 and although a great and an amazing tool (and the method I personally used for my first 1”+ length gains) there still gets to be a point of reduced results because at some point, the body adapts and a new kind of stress has to be introduced to re-start the process.

Again, good read and I will prolly even experiment with a couple of things because of this thread... but I just don’t see it as any major game changer because if it was this thread wouldn’t have died 7 years ago.
 
Anyone else feel like they don't want to perform any other manual stretch for the rest of his life after reading this thread?
 
Some well thought out ideas, and this should be used as a reference.

I don't believe an ultimate method, exercise, device, or methology does exist for any of this.

Your best weapon is training smart, but knowing that even with the same biological functions, we being human, each of us has unique needs, and some grow quicker due to how their own body heals, not necessarily due to a magic bullet.

From all my experience, all methods get stale eventually, and the user must overcome, and adapt, otherwise you stay put.

It's not easy at this stage, more psychological, and you even have to challenge your own views on how to exercise more effective, but change must occur.
 
Omg, thanks for bumping this thread up guys ? <3
Had some kind of same thoughts and really excited for trying to wear my extender beside normal manual training for as long as I can during the day and later maybe even at night.
Anyone else here who wants to try with me wearing an extender 12-18h? Since yesterday I'm researching through dozens of threads but haven't found somebody who did it so far.
 
I love your youthful enthusiasm, go for it, but always remember safety.

Very good advice as sometimes we can become overzealous in what we’re doing and when we get lost in that excitement sometimes caution goes to the wind. Take your time be sure you’re safe and do not rush, PE is a lifetime commitment.
 
We know that Pe gives gains,ok,in this 4-5 years in Pe i understood many things about it,but i suddenly realize that rest have something with it and I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE what is happening down there.I am also fan of that all days stretching for 7 days a week and yes,sounds beautiful,but i now realize that after 2,3 weeks of stretching and then resting 4-5 days i can see the results.How much penis should rest???? The muscles need 24-48 hours for recovery,how much the penis need? I now i can gain more if i realize whats happening with the rest and penis enlargement...but now i don't have any idea.

For me, I think rest days are important for pumping. But for length, I suggest we train every other day and be on a good diet.
 
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There is no limit on stretching...the more the better
 
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