Jun 3, 2003
Is Everything Really What it Seems? A ongoing study by DLD

This is a study I have been working on for a while now. I have been asked to post it here. Some may have read it already, for those who have not it may help you, it helped me doing it.

An Overview: Part 1
Part 1: Visual size distortion and influence of language

This photograph by English visual psychologist Richard Gregory shows two people, placed at differing distances, so that their images differ in size. Most people looking at this photograph will state that the nearer person looks a little nearer, but also a lot larger. The two subjects maintained a constant horizontal foot level independent of their distance from the viewer (this was accomplished by having the camera placed at ground level). The effect still occurred, but it is ambiguous due to the lack of a perspective background. This is due to the perspective distortion or illusion of the way the picture is presented. Why is this important to Penis Enlargement? I think after reading this ongoing report I am working on it will become apparent.

(see photo below)

In the course of my studies into illusion, distortion and visual interpretation I have allowed myself to view some �naked people movies� material. (this is important to the people who know I generally do not look at �naked people movies� images)

Over the course of the past few weeks I have become increasingly skeptical of penis pictures on line. The reason I embarked on this study was to calm some of my own anxieties about what I view on line and hopefully help other people suffering with similar problems. I have been left very confused after viewing images of a man in what I will call “an optimum angle photograph” opposed to subsequent pictures of the same man in a non-optimum angle photograph. On first glance the penis picture appears to be huge but on further investigation I have realized that my initial viewing was proportion bias. Basically my vision was distorted by surrounding object and/or proportion optimizing angles. I think that many times we see a picture and based on surrounding object and spacial values we arrive at a distorted perception of the object in question. I will get into this more in part 2

I have also become very interested in how language influences the way we see things. Using a popular figure for example, it has been hammered into our heads that John Holmes had a 14” penis. In turn this is a preconceived belief that will further distort our perception when we actually see a photograph of John Holmes. In many case people will just believe this measurement because it is what they have been told. In this case language played a huge roll in photographic illusion. On further investigation John Holmes is much smaller then the 14” myth, but over time in becomes increasingly more and more difficult to see this due to the constant distorted language. I have spent time doing certain tests I have developed in relation with this study to estimate size based on surrounding object and un-distorted images. In this test John Holmes is closer to less than 10”. More of this in part 2.

I will also get deeper into self image based on pre-conceived self opinions and how this affects how we see ourselves. I will get into my own struggles with this and some new, interesting ways to deal with these issues. I will also point out how this relates to penis enlargement.

Through this study I hope to expose media dishonesty, photographic illusion and help myself battle my own problems with self view.


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Part 2: A deeper look at Size Illusion

A basic assumption that seems to be built into our visual system is that the objects that we see are from a three-dimensional world. Which seems rational enough because we spend the majority of our lives viewing the world in a 3 dimensional environment. So, if we are presented with a two-dimensional picture, our visual system tends to interpret the image as if it were caused by three-dimensional objects. This interpretation is most of the time very close to accurate. But when slight change of surrounding objects or some sort of distortion occurs illusion will follow.

See picture below for a further graphic explanation.

We make judgments in 2 dimensional information based on learned knowledge (sometimes to quickly which is where illusion becomes evident). These assumptions are usually based in our three dimensional judgement. When an artist wants something to appear further away he will paint that object smaller in proportion to the foreground object, the further away the object the smaller it must be. This gives perspective of size difference and spacial value on a flat surface. Now when these same principals are applied to creating size illusion some very basic adjustments need to be made to accomplish the desired outcome. The reason this illusion is so easily orchestrated is because our visual system has been adapted for use in a three-dimensional (not a two-dimensional) world. Many times size illusion will happen purely by accident (mainly in a non controlled environment) but if the producer chooses to create illusion of something larger and/or something smaller they only need to manipulate the surrounding, not the object itself. This is easily visual in movies where the object of visual size difference is created by it’s environment. i.e..) Honey I shrunk the kids, King Kong. So when these same rules are applied to �naked people movies� pictures the illusions are easy accomplished. Further manipulations are made at the editing phase where many adjustments can be made via the computer that before were not possible. (i.e.: morphing, which is very evident on web sites like monstercocks.com)

Being creatures of a prominently based 3 dimensional world it is easy to see how we are fooled by such basic manipulation. But it still remains that we will believe what we see a majority of the time because we lack the ability to quickly find these distortions and rationally put them in place.

Learned knowledge acts as the catalyst for this confusion because when we see something in two dimension our brains base size estimations on surrounding objects and what our past learned experience of the objects are. For example if you were to shoot a picture of a car but surround that picture with oversized objects the car would appear to be smaller. The same principals hold true when seeing a picture that lends distortion to increasing the visual size of something.

What does this knowledge accomplish for us in penis enlargement? I will relate this to myself as not to speak for other people. I can become very discouraged when I view some of the material on-line, I will play head games and ultimately feel badly about my own self image. Any kind of compitition with the images we see on line, in movies, or magazines is a very unfair war.... Why? We do not have the advantage of angle when looking down at our penis. We have very few visual points to view our own penis but in a 2 dimensional world there are infinite angles, perspectives and distortions. The second problem with viewing ourselves compared to media images is we are usually consumed with self doubt and have the insistent belief that the rest of the world is better than us. Having a negative view of ourselves and then looking down at our penis it becomes almost automatic to have a dismorphic view.

Over the course of this study I have looked at many pictures portraying the penis. Initially it was a very anxious environment for me but as time went on and I conducted my various tests on these images (part 4 will be a graphic model of all my findings) I started to realize much of what we see we believe based on language. If the ad says 14” then it must be true. I challenged many of these claims and many of the claims were untrue. The ones I found to have enough evidence to support their claim were all in reasonable size values. (Language will be part 3 of this study)


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Part 3 will feature my techniques on judging size based on different components and how many illusions are performed. As far as I am concerned the most accurate angle to judge size is the angle you can find in the members only forum. There is a picture in the thread http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34 that shows Jen holding my penis from the front with two hands on the same plain of vision, this is the easiest position to judge accurate size. I will also break some of my own photos down in part 4 explaining some technique to accurately judge size.

Part 3
Taking on the media

In this part I will use one of my own idols as the example. John Holmes is probably one of the first images that comes to mind when the term "Huge Cock" is used and righfully so. John Holmes had a magnificently huge penis, very long and very thick...what most of us dream of having.

In one particular interview with "The King" he was quoted as saying his penis was 10" long...these are his own words and I have to agree that with a very nice bone pressed measurement in a dead stretch setting he is very close to this claim. How big is 10"? Huge. Look at a standard US paper towel roll, this is slightly over 10" and it is HUGE. A penis that would scare the biggest size queens.

In this first illustration: (see below) I will show how the language of the ad is misleading. In the ad it claims John Holmes as having a 14.5" penis. This is a measurement I have heard for most of my life when John Holmes was discussed. This is a perfect example of language giving us the illusion that the picture we are looking at is based in reality. For most people a glance at the picture would show A.) a Huge Penis and B.) the words 14.5" printed below it. The illusion here will become evident in the next two illustrations. But living in a society where most of us want to believe people and have a general thirst for honesty we are easily fooled into taking part A and part B and combining them without question. Language, as misleading as it can be, is a wonderful tool in any type of successful sale. Weather the sale be ourselves to another person for a date, or IBathmate to the general public to sell a expensive computer system. How many times have you heard a women say, "oh he was huge, at least 10 inches" what is this statement based on, Reality? No chances are it is based on the man selling his penis as being a 10 incher and her believing the language. Even though the two may not coincide she still thinks it's true for the simple reason that WE WANT TO BELIEVE.


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In this illustration (see below) where I have dissected the penis from the original. This step alone has a huge effect on what we are truly seeing but I took it a step further. Taking averages into mind, I drew two lines that show the distance the penis is if it were laid on her face. Measure your own face, chin to middle forehead...what is the measurement...I got 8”. Now is this a mighty cock? Hell yes. Is it 14.5”? imagine how big her head would need to be for this to be true.

Using the same method of measuring her head and using the general averages to determine size, this third illustration represents a poorly morphed version of what a 12” penis would look like next to the models head. Quite a difference but still not the 14.5” claim. I ran out of palet room to show 14.5”. Take special notice of the ruler measurements given in the advertisers picture.

see picture below

How does this apply to Penis Enlargement? Again, speaking for myself, knowing that people like John Holmes really were something closer to a 10” than 14.5" relieves quite a bit of the anxiety that I felt before I questioned this language. 14.5” is unreal, but still there are many who still think these measurements are out there. When we lower the bar to 10” our goals become more realistic and attainable. The typical average man starting Penis Enlargement (estimating the mean average at around 5.5" in length) truly thought that John Holmes was 14.5" his mindset for getting himself to this level would seen impossible. With this false belief he would need to ad and additional 9" in length to get there. But when the bar is lowered to a more realistic and accurate number this newbie only need to gain around 4"....Yes 4" is an incredible gain but this has been done in Penis Enlargement. If others have gone before us and made some of our own goals a reality it allows us the same motivation to realize our own goals.


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Part 4: Size estimation and Photographic Morphing

Estimation of Size using Female Hand Averages.

When I estimate size in a photograph I prefer to use hand size as the gauge. Understand, this is my preferred way to estimate, but I have other methods that are even more accurate. (Using objects of common knowledge measurement on the equal plain as the subject. Bringing all object to an equal plain as to eliminate illusion, etc.)

In a reputabal study 68 grown females were measured for hand breadth. Hand breadth is the distance between the upper most part of the hand to the lower most part of the hand on a vertical plain. See the picture for illustration of this. In this study the size varried from 2.9” to 3.5”. 3.5” being the largest measurement in this female study should be used to determine size as to give the benefit of the doubt to the subject in question. In a graphics program using simple duplication techniques approximate size can be determined based on average hand sizes. I feel this is a more than fair tool to determine penis size for the simple fact I am giving the subject every advantage possible (largest average hand comparison). Usually in size driven �naked people movies� the women will not have a huge hand, the producer will more than likely find a women at the smaller end of the range. What I like to do is find a subject that has a women grabbing the penis. From this point I simply duplicate the hand breadth and place it along the edge of the penis. Simple math gives a very close measurement of length. This process can be done using various averages in body part comparison. I like to always use the largest average as to ensure a fair reading in the benefit of the subject.

(techniques done at the editing phase)

This is a very simple technique that can be done with amazing accuracy with a skilled designer. Using various tools in a photo manipulation program images can be made longer, thicker, shorter, or simply replaced with another image very easily. I quickly did an example of this. The original picture is the one on top, the image below I created. (see below) This process is not limited to still photography...video can be manipulated frame by fame to accomplish the same results. 99% of the penis images at www.monstercocks.com are morphed in a similar way. This took me about 5 minutes to complete. With proper time I can produce a seamless image that would be virtually impossible to detect. You may ask yourself how I detect morphed images? To the naked eye it is impossible. But when a questionable image is enlarged many times the pixels become visible. In this state I am able to see repeated patterns, color inconsistencies, breaks in tone, among other tell tale signs of manipulation.

Why is this important to Penis Enlargement?

I think that once we realize that things that seem unreal usually are it brings a sense of security to the person struggling with self confidence issues. The penis is the most sensitive issue for most men and when we subject ourselves to false, dishonest standards we create impossible goals. For myself my Penis Enlargement goals need to be based on reality. Trying to keep the determination to continue to accomplish these goals becomes much easier when the playing field is leveled.

The next part of this study will be mostly graphic and involve sample pictures and size analysis, enlarged pixels of morphed images, and other DLD techniques. I hope everyone is enjoying this study so far. I know it is helping me with some of my fears and I hope it is helping you too.


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Some History about Penis Size...source available to those that want it

Largest Penis by Race
Going strictly by the Kinsey data, which still remains one of the most exhaustive studies on penis size to date, the average white male has a penis measuring 6.2 inches long and 3.7 inches around, whereas the average black male has a penis 6.3 by 3.8 inches, for a difference of 0.1 inches--not what you'd call statistically significant. When it came to flaccid length, however, blacks fared a little better: 4.3 inches long, versus 4.0 inches for white males. So it may be, therefore, that while those of African heritage appear larger initially, under actual working conditions things tend to even out. You should consider this a tentative hypothesis rather than a scientific fact, as there were only 59 black respondents to the survey, versus 2,500 for whites.

Smallest Penis by Race
Inhabiting the low end of the penile spectrum are those of the Asian persuasion, specifically those of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, or Vietnamese descent. Hard data supporting this claim comes from The Definitive Penis Size Survey, a website maintained by Richard Edwards and dedicated to answering the imponderable mysteries surrounding man's most cherished appendage (the mysteries related to size, anyway). Among the interesting tidbits we gleam from his work, now in its sixth edition, is a graph correlating different erect sizes with race. The final tally: Caucasians on average measure 6.5 inches (16.5 cm), whereas the average Asian measures--5.5 inches (14 cm).

Is the �naked people movies� Industry partially to blame for race driven beliefs?
There are the dubious claims of immense penis size by various personages operating within the sex industry. These claims are almost invariably false, the result of exaggeration and hype by unscrupulous dealers hoping to hawk more products. Take the legendary Long Dong Silver, for instance. Made famous by the Clarence Thomas-Anita Hill hearings, his one enduring trait was his supposedly 18-inch penis. Totally fraudulent, as it turns out; in fact, there are videos in which he appears only normal sized.

What type of pressures do males feel when the issue of size is faced? Are myths only exaduratted rumors? Do these rumors play a roll in anxiety? I decided to get the opinions of a small cross section of males that often fall victim to these rumors. Here are the questions I proposed to these men. I have interviewed 1 Black male, 1 Italian Male and 1 Asian male. I choose these three races as many rumors have surfaced in these areas. I have also included some additional thought from another good friend of mine to give an added perspective.

#1 Black Male

What type of pressures do you feel as a black male when issues of size is brought up among other black males?

Believe it or not, the black males I hang around rarely bring "the size issue" up. Every once in a while someone may make a joke in passing about "what everyone knows" about white male size, but no one ever talks about their own tool -- bragging or otherwise. Probably because most of us have nagging doubts about our own ability to live up to the stereotype of the gigantic black penis. And because I haven't seen very many black penises, particularly erect ones, I couldn't really validate or dismiss the stereotype. I will say that I've noticed in locker rooms that it seems as if black males are more likely to cover up than white males. This may be due to the increased pressure they feel to measure up to the legend. Even though I am far out on the right tail of the dick size distribution according to all the studies I've seen, I often feel this pressure as well.
It interesting to note, however, that most of these studies tend to be based on samples with relatively few black males.

Do the size rumors about blacks that surface in public circles become even more exaggerated in black circles and how does this make you feel?

Again, it not something that comes up that often among men in my experience. I have had a few girlfriends, however, who gossip about size with their female friends. Because most of them had not been with a white male, they often speculated about whether the size difference rumors were true. At the same time, I've overhead many conversations about black males
that a girlfriend or her friend had been with who wasn't very well endowed. So clearly all black males aren't packing.

Do you feel an added pressure to be "Bigger" due to this stigma?

As I noted above, I definitely feel pressure to be bigger due to the rumor. I'm naturally competitive -- particularly when it comes to my body (I'm a bodybuilder, etc.). Even though I know most men would be happy with what I have, I don't believe I'd be completely at peace with my endowment unless it was in the 12" range. Sad but true.

#2 Italian Male

What type of pressures do you feel as an Italian male when issues of size is brought up among other Italian males?

I don’t hear alot of penis size talk with my Italian friends. I am always grabbing it and saying right here and other stereotypical shit but when it comes to size I think I like to just let the rumor speak for itself weather is true or not. Hey I need every edge I can get, right?

Do the size rumors about Italians that surface in general circles of people become even more exaggerated in Italian circles and how does this make you feel?

I think so. If size does come up I always feel this added pressure to sorta prove myself to my boys.

Do you feel an added pressure to be "Bigger" due to this stigma?

Well I am hear, aint I? I guess I do feel this way. But my opinion of this stuff is I am not sure if the rumors are true for every Italian guy, but I am going to make sure it is with me.

#3 Asian Male

What type of pressures do you feel as an Asian male when issues of size is brought up among other Asian males?

Well when penis size is the topic of discussion I am usually quite reserved. I fall into the average size guidelines so I do not feel any need to really speak on it. I have been in locker rooms with some of my Asian friends who appear to be about the same as me.

Do the size rumors about Asians that surface in general circles of people become even more exaggerated in Asian circles and how does this make you feel?

Those rumors are quite irritating to say the least. I am not entirely sure where these size rumors come from but it really makes me mad. I have seen allot of men naked in my life because I was on the swimming team in college and high school. My opinion is everyone has “basically” the same equipment. Some may be a bit larger and some may fair a little smaller. I have never seen anything drastic.

Do you feel an added pressure to be "Bigger" due to this stigma?

I am not sure if it is due to any stigma from rumors but I like most normal men want to be larger. When thinking about the difference between a normal penis and a large penis that difference is very small in the grand scheme of things.

Additional thoughts by another Black male:

But The pressure is great with the black male penis issue. With the high standards you have to be there much better to be considered something special. Like I know many people here that would be happy to only be 7 inches and I know alot of black women that would consider that small. Luckily I was born into a better position but I want to try and make the myth true with me. For the most part the myth has a basis in fact even though studies would show other wise. No to say every black man is hung like a horse would be like sayin every asian girl has small titties or al white girls have no ass. For the most part these are true but they cannot apply to all people. The black myth is a double edged sword if you ask me. It's a good myth if you have been blessed with the horse dick, but at the same time for those that have been shorted a lil that can make you feel inadquate.

It's harder for me because even though there are many more black guys smaller than me I still want to raise up out of the crowd more. With black men alot of time even though it mght not be said or what not we are very conscience bout our dick sizes and how we compare with others. We the be the biggest and the best. It's in our competitive nature. The size rumors are not as bad as it is seen in white circles cause it's something we've lived with our whole lives. Black people on average are more likely to have bigger body parts that most other races. You can go out now and see the hands, feet, heads, noses, lips. These parts among others can be bigger on blacks than othe races so it's kinda something that's lived with. But like before with these bigger body parts many want to have the bigger penis since they have to go through life with a big nose or a big head.

Myths seem to be endless.Through my own interviews and reading I have concluded that there is little or no evidence to support any of the penis rumors surrounding the three test races. I know I used a very small cross section but I thought it to be more interesting and time sensitive to get data from people I know. The reason I confronted the Myths issue is to show how un-supported rumors cause additional stress to the average man engaging in Penis Enlargement. I found it humorous this humerous and encouraging: ” I am not sure if the rumors are true for every guy, but I am going to make sure it is with me”. I think this is what we all feel here in some respect.

I wanted to post these interviews before I go on to the illustration and psychological part of this study...

Thank You to those who participated
Part 6
Thoughts on
average size,
penis studies
and other confusing
penis subject matter.

If you are anything like me the phrase “average penis size” can take many different shapes and leave you feeling confused about the definitive answer. Looking on-line will make things even more confusing due to the numerous surveys and studies conducted around this issue. I visited every conceivable study the internet has and picked two studies I felt to be most accurate out of the vast collection of sites.

The Kinsey study is one of the biggest and most famous penis size studies ever done. It was done in 1948 and involved 3,500 college males.. I thought this to be a great study with some minor flaws. One being most of the men in the study were white, this is a problem because it leaves doubts about race cross sections. The another being the method of measurement. The subject simply held a white card against their penis and marked their length on the card, which was later measured. Even though this was medically viewed it leaves a large area of error. The Kinsey study concluded average erect length was 6.21 inches and the average erect girth was 4.85 inches. Flaccid length was found to be 3.89 inches and flaccid girth 3.75 inches on average.

Other studies fall short of any kind of ethical standard because of method of measurement. (usually done unassisted by the subject) These studies have such a broad element of error that making a conclusion here would be wrong. Men generally will not be honest in these situation due to the inconclusive studies that have spawned unconfirmed rumors of average size. Most men when asked what they believed average size was would say it to be in the 6.5” area. So when measuring most will stretch the truth above this point to avoid embarrassment. Statistical surveys and self-perception questionnaires have caused more confusion. And based on the evidence, the answer confirmed is still a cloudy 6 to 6.5”. I think this is still untrue and a very unfair size for science to conclude. So I continued to search.

The one study I did like most is Lifestyles Condoms. I think it left the smallest amount of error. In the Spring 2001 in Cancun, Mexico, Lifestyles gathered a total of 301 male volunteers over 18 years old. Each subject was measured by a researcher which eliminated the cheating factor. The results of the Lifestyles survey found that average penis erect length is 5.87 inches and erect girth is 4.97 inches. Also, according to the survey, 54% of subjects measured between 5.5 inches and 6.3 inches in erect length with 53.3% measuring between 4.72 inches and 5.11 inches in girth. I liked everything in this study but the amount of subjects and the race inconsistencies.

When digging deeper into the race card I found this. A Toronto-based physician, Dr. Jerald Bain, who treats men with reproductive disorders had this to say about race. "But I can tell you from my own personal experience in seeing hundreds and hundreds of men - and I have the added advantage of working in Toronto, a very international city - that there is no difference from one ethnic origin to another,"

What I think to be the most definitive answer:
In my opinion, considering all of the information above, I would conclude that the average erect penis measures closer to 5.5 then the previously believed 6.5 inches in length. As far as girth is concerned 5 inches is what I believe to be the average. These may be my opinions but I would like to let you know I have studied very closely all surveys of validity and found these numbers to be most unbias.

How is this important to Penis Enlargement?
I think that weather we are above, below or right smack in the middle of what average is it gives us a better game plan when the actual number is true. For the person who feels his 5.5” penis is small, this information becomes very relative to him. For the person that falls short of this number, it gives him a solid, realistic goal to work towards. For the men who fall above this number it give the added confidence we all desperately seek.
Part 7: Angle & Contrast

First lets take a look at angles and how they effect what we see.
If an object appears big or small in a picture, the viewer assigns greater or lesser importance to it. An object that is prominent in the foreground and therefore appears relatively larger, takes on an importance for the viewer. The photographer is saying “LOOK AT THIS” by making it appear large in the frame and making it’s surroundings appear smaller. An image that contains distant objects isolates the viewer from them. Their relative small size makes them appear to be less significant, even though they may be the most significant part of a scene, but their far-away appearance mentally detaches the viewer from them. An image showing a naked man of average size in a bare white room make the mans penis appear benign and average, whereas the exact same man shown close-up and magnified in a macro-photograph may appear huge and monestrous.

Here is an example of skewed proportion using spacial value

A.) First Angle
See Below


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B.) Second Angle (see below)

B is the same egg as in A but with a simple angle the B egg becomes larger than life. Imagine what the �naked people movies� industry is doing with there cameras! When you encounter a picture that seams to good to be true...generally it is.


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Why does a penis appear larger in interracial �naked people movies�?
Addressing the color issue or Should I say CONTRAST

If you are anything like me your first reaction to interracial �naked people movies� is initially skewed. What we see depends not only on objects but also on their backgrounds. A white object will be difficult to see against a white background but easy to see against a dark one. Conversely, a dark object might still be highly visible if the background is bright. The following pictures illustrate that we perceive "contrast," the difference between objects and their backgrounds, rather than the simply the amount of light coming from the object. This will show why men in interracial scenes always appear larger than men in same race scenes.

In the next two attatcHydromaxents you may rethink what you see:


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And White on Black


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How does this happen?
This next graph will show how size becomes less prominent as it’s contrasting color becomes closer to it’s own. (see below)

Notice how much smaller the circle at the right appears in comparison to the circle at the left. Contrast is a very important aspect in what we view and how our brains translate this information. When we incorporate Myths and preconceived media language the contrast becomes larger and larger.

How is this important to Penis Enlargement?
Using this knowledge when viewing naked images will get you to stop and question what you may have missed previously. When we are able to really SEE what we are looking at it helps give us a more realistic goal in Penis Enlargement. The Ghetto Boyz said it best when Scarface said' "My minds playin' tricks on me homey" Our minds are very, very powerful and this ability can be used against or for us.


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Part 8

This part of my study is mostly based on my opinion over the information I have studied so far.

I think that we have gotten a pretty clear view of what average is, but what is considered big? I have looked through 100’s of penis pictures during this study and I picked the pictures I felt looked the biggest to me. (these I will feture in Part 9) I took these images and ran various size tests to determine size. To my surprise I found some interesting things. Most of the time on first glace the men in these photos appeared to be pushing the 10” range (needless to say this caused me initial anxiety) but after very carefully analyzing each photo I came up with almost the same measurement for each one I considered big. The conclusion may surprise most of us but invariably it came out to be between 8 and 8.5” with an average girth of 6”. I determined this through different processes I spoke of in earlier sections of this thread. I did find a very small percentage of men above this measurement those being in the 9-9.5” range. Nothing beyond this...NOTHING....SO to me in my opinion when I view a mans penis I am blown away at around the 8x6” mark. I consider this huge. It seems that measurements beyond this “magic mark” are not easily defined. The difference between an 8” penis and a 9” penis is not as exceptional as the difference between a 7” penis and a 8” penis in my opinion. A huge factor in initial size view was girth. The man who measured in length the same as another but had more girth looked considerably larger to me. On the average most subjects in my general testing fell into the 5.5x5"” to 6.5x5"” mark respectively.

This may come as a surprise also but I found no real difference between races that was consistent enough to determine one bigger or smaller than the next...which I feel is good news for us. On penis sensitive sites, meaning sites that content was mainly centered around large size, played into race myths...but consistently I found the same actors working many of these circles.

One very, very consistent thing I found 100% of the time was a correlation between the look of the larger penis in comparison to the look of the average penis. This brought me to my final opinion on size. Every “large” penis I encountered bared the marks of a P.E.er. Consistencies ranged from vein structure, stretch marks to darker and lighter skin areas. These are truly the marks most P.E.ers where. these are the marks that people who do not engage in Penis Enlargement lack. I will give my opinion at the end of this update.

Again my opinion, but I think the difference between men who never P.E.ed fall into the average size area within about an inch either way. I think that men who engaged in alot of masturbation growing up may have slightly longer units than the people who didn’t due to the constant pulling. So I think men are not born huge...I think most of us are born with the same opportunity as the next.

I think we can assume now that Sean Michaels prob. hangs or John Holmes was an avid jelquer...but what I am sure of is these impressive men shared the knowledge we have here at peforums. Each one has a similar penis to the next, sharing definite tell tales of pe. I think with this in mind it gives us the needed confidence to tackle our pe goals with a new understanding that before was mythical. I determined my opinions on a vast amount of information. I have searched far and near and looked at countless images with a slew of never ending text. My curiousity has determined some new ways of thinking thus far. To date here are my newest views.

1.) The largest men out there are the men in these forums
2.) Race only plays a roll when the myths drive certain races to find Penis Enlargement
3.) Men are born equal
4.) A massive penis is 8x6 respectively IMO
5.) There are exceptions to all of this but a very small amount.
Part 9: The Big Boys

The people I choose to analize were chosen for 3 different reasons. The first reason is that each comes from a diversified background in race and era. The second reason is their popularity. The third reason is each subject has been rumored to have an over estimated size. I do not feel any of this dishonesty is by way of the stars themselves. I believe blame to be on the media and how they exploit these men and prostitute dishonest sizes to capitalize. I have a great respect for each one of the subjects chosen and feel them to be our P.E. allies. I want everyone to know that I think these are among the biggest out there and I give each one of them props for there immense size and (assuming) dedication to their own P.E. programs. I am in no way trying to discredit these men, I am only trying to create a more realistic environment for us to gauge our goals, success and desires by.
Sean Michaels: Rumored to be in the 12+ inches range.
Method of analysis: enlarged image to follow the national average for head size, female. After enlargement I gave an overestimation for actual size to eliminate any margin of error that would discredit my tests. Items chosen are on equal plains to eliminate 3 dimensional illusion.


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Rocco Sifferedi: Rumored to be in the 9.5+ inches range.
Method of analysis: enlarged image to follow the national average for head size, male. After enlargement I gave an overestimation for actual size to eliminate any margin of error that would discredit my tests. Items chosen are on equal plains to eliminate 3 dimensional illusion.


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Ron Jeremy: Rumored to be in the 9.75 inches.
Method of analysis: enlarged image to follow the national average for head size, male. After enlargement I gave an overestimation for actual size to eliminate any margin of error that would discredit my tests. Items chosen are on equal plains to eliminate 3 dimensional illusion.


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Mr. 18: Rumored to be in the 18 inches.
Method of analysis: enlarged image to follow the national average for head size, female. After enlargement I gave an overestimation for actual size to eliminate any margin of error that would discredit my tests. Items chosen are on equal plains to eliminate 3 dimensional illusion.


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John Holmes: Rumored to be in the 13+ inches range.
Method of analysis: enlarged image to follow the national average for hand breadth size, female. After enlargement I gave an overestimation for actual size to eliminate any margin of error that would discredit my tests. Items chosen are on equal plains to eliminate 3 dimensional illusion.


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How this relates to Penis Enlargement
This series of test gives the much needed encouragement to any of us who are suffering with a poor self image. When illusion, dishonesty and effects are eliminated the size anxiety becomes more easy to deal with. Knowing that these men of size, who most of us admire them for, is something we can realistically acquire through hard work and dedication to Penis Enlargement brings a calming feeling to me. I hope each one of you who has gained interest in this thread has gotten the extra confidence to push on. I did this for many reasons, which I will discuss in the final part, but mainly to help the people here that have helped me by giving back.
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