Christianity vs. PE - can they co-exist?

NeXus said:

The Bible says God made the world in 6 days. That is a flat out contradiction to what has been proven about Earth. The Earth is about 4.5 billion years old. According to the Bible, it would be less than 1 billion years old.

Science is about EVIDENCE to PROVE your theory. Religion is about blindly puttin your faith into a organization and excepting whatever bullshit they fill your brain with. Kinda like a cult.

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So, Science is about evidence to prove your theory???? That is questionable? You can't find any proof for anything. You can find theories but not evidence. That is all evolution is based on anyway, theory. There is little proof for anything. Too much theory based on theory.

And further.....??? You are wrong, Religion is not about blindly putting your faith into a organization.....! True Christianity is not about blind faith but faith based on fact. The continual rejection of the bible is the unbelieving heart of man. Too many facts in the Bible are provable. We have debated this before, and then when faced with the facts those who reject the bible run and hide. NeXus, you read too much from people who reject the bible and believe them. I don't mean to mention just you, many more keep hammering away on this theme too. Sorry, but you don't have a "leg to stand on" to reject the bible and the truth of the Bible. Have your way with religion, organizations and slander them all you want, they often deserve it, but Christ, the bible and the truth of the Bible you can't touch. You can attempt to hurt them but you can't, Men have tried for years and centuries to destroy Christ, but to no avail. Just thought I would step in and offer some words of encouragement. GS

NeXus said:

The Bible says God made the world in 6 days. That is a flat out contradiction to what has been proven about Earth. The Earth is about 4.5 billion years old. According to the Bible, it would be less than 1 billion years old.

Science is about EVIDENCE to PROVE your theory. Religion is about blindly puttin your faith into a organization and excepting whatever bullshit they fill your brain with. Kinda like a cult.

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OK, here we go again. Most of this will look familiar because you don't seem to pay attention to what anyone else says.

They have not proven anything. Sorry, but you cannot absolutely prove the age of anything unless you were there when it was "born" or formed or whatever. So, while 14 billion years is the closest estimate they have, they have not proven anything. And for you to keep saying that they have is nonsense, like most of the rest of what you say.

I never said I don't buy that the universe is 14 billion years old. I think that's quite possible, and probably pretty accurate. I said I don't buy that they have PROVEN it. You need to read more closely what I type so you don't misquote me anymore.

Who said that Christianity doesn't want us to ask questions? It isn't in the Bible anywhere. Can you show it to me? No, I think you heard that from some other agnostics or atheists or whatever. It's ok for us to ask questions. It's ok for us to search for truth. It's even ok for us to question God. But you probably won't believe me on this because you have probably been told otherwise by agnostics and the like. Whatever.

As I said earlier, Genesis was not intended to be a science book. So all this crap about your so-called proof contradicting the Bible doesn't fly with me. And besides, I don't care whether the universe is 6000 years old or 6 trillion years old. It makes absolutely no difference to me and has nothing to do with Christianity.

So once AGAIN, before I'm going to take you seriously whatsoever, I want you to show me one good reason not to be a Christian. If you think you can, try me. But I doubt it. Until then, you can keep posting this rubbish that has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity, and I'll keep showing you why it has nothing to do with it, and we'll go 'round and 'round in these pointless circles that you seem so fond of, and get absolutely nowhere.

Don't get me wrong, I love circles.

Any more?

It baffles me how people take books that were written thousands of years ago, by a bunch of people who heard stories from other people, and take that as absolute truth.

All Im saying is that the Bible is NOT absolute truth! Adam and Eve never happened, neither did Noah's Ark or Jonah in the Whale. Its just supposed to be a guide.

I believe in "God" or a Creator of everything, but I dont believe that ANY human knows who God is. Because they dont. And if they do, thier lying, plain and simple. They make believe they know, but in reality, they have no idea.

Maybe Islam is the right religion? How would you guys know the difference if you grew up in Suadia Arabia as opposed to San Fransico? You cant choose where you come from or who you ancestors are.

At least with science, it can change with TRUTH. Thats something that religion cannot do.

NeXus said:

It baffles me how people take books that were written thousands of years ago, by a bunch of people who heard stories from other people, and take that as absolute truth.

All Im saying is that the Bible is NOT absolute truth! Adam and Eve never happened, neither did Noah's Ark or Jonah in the Whale. Its just supposed to be a guide.

I believe in "God" or a Creator of everything, but I dont believe that ANY human knows who God is. Because they dont. And if they do, thier lying, plain and simple. They make believe they know, but in reality, they have no idea.

Maybe Islam is the right religion? How would you guys know the difference if you grew up in Suadia Arabia as opposed to San Fransico? You cant choose where you come from or who you ancestors are.

At least with science, it can change with TRUTH. Thats something that religion cannot do.

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You really don't make any sense, and you make a terrible argument. Can you back this stuff up? No, you cannot. You just say it because it fits your beliefs but you have ABSOLUTELY NO SUPPORT for what you are saying. Why is the Bible not absolute truth? How can you say Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, or Jonah and the big fish (it never said whale) never happened? What evidence do you have to back this nonsense up? Nothing at all!

What do you have to back up your claims that we can't know God? What philosophising can you do to support yourself? How do you know you are right? Just because you are?

Nah, I don't think Islam is right. But that's a WHOLE other thread. Aren't there Muslims in San Fransisco?

In every country in the world that is predominantly Islamic, there is no freedom of religion. You can check on that one, I guarantee you. Christians are not forced into their beliefs like that. Of course, that doesn't have much to do with which religion is right...just a thought.

I really am interested in why you believe what you believe. I'd really like to hear about it. Because I can talk Christian apologetics all day, but I have yet to see you back up any of your beliefs whatsoever. And I don't mean I want to read this again: "Nobody can know God. They just can't, and that's all there is to it." I want to know why I can't know God. Convince me. Give me some agnostic material to read. Quote a great agnostic philosopher. Because I can do that as much as I want, and back up my beliefs as much as I need to. But I have yet to see you do the same.

There is a strong sense of Christianity in 9cyclops9. Welcome brother

Gods laws in the bible, not too hard to follow or comprehend. Why is it so hard to follow?
Did you all think to why there isn't an enemy called ANTIBUDDA or Antimuslim
but there is the ANTICHRIST? Why do you suppose Jesus Christ is hate MOST OF all? If he is so fake, why even bother. The easter bunny is not real, but we dont see you faltering trying to prove us that he isn't real. Why even care if you believe he isn't there, or even think about it?
Why do people say for CHRISTS SAKES, or JESUS!! and not For Buddha sakes? Cause Christ is the most real, he has made the most grand impact on the world. You cannot deny him to your death without hurting yourself.

accidently unsubscribed.

BusterSword said:

Gods laws in the bible, not too hard to follow or comprehend. Why is it so hard to follow?
Did you all think to why there isn't an enemy called ANTIBUDDA or Antimuslim
but there is the ANTICHRIST? Why do you suppose Jesus Christ is hate MOST OF all? If he is so fake, why even bother. The easter bunny is not real, but we dont see you faltering trying to prove us that he isn't real. Why even care if you believe he isn't there, or even think about it?
Why do people say for CHRISTS SAKES, or JESUS!! and not For Buddha sakes? Cause Christ is the most real, he has made the most grand impact on the world. You cannot deny him to your death without hurting yourself.

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LOL I tried that for a while to see peoples reaction when I was a teen. I got tired of people taking Christ's name of God's name in vain. and this thought crossed my mind if they can slander my God or someone who is BIG in my life I should be able to return the jesture. So I'd randomly start with "oh budda" or "mahomid" or whatever. heck the best responces came when you'd stop them and ask who was thier best friend or was the most important person in thier life and substitue thier profanity of God and Jesus with thier special person. at first you get the wierdo look then it gets ugly quick...goes over like a lead baloon.

NeXus said:

The Bible says God made the world in 6 days. That is a flat out contradiction of what has been proven, that the Earth was made over billions of years. And is about 14 billion years old.

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bottom line is prove it. 14 billion years old? that's nothing more than a theory. cabon dating has been shown not to accurate as well as some other methods of dating once thought to be accurate measurements of dating. Going with the info you posted I would assume you believe in evolution as well. If you anyone is crazy enough to believe that I'd like to see proof. heck in over 200 years nobody has seen any evidence of it?

NeXus said:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/johnson0.htm#TTOC

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I'm in the process of reading this. What I've read so far is rubbish. Don't worry, I'll tell you why after I get done with it in a few days. He seems to be another person who doesn't have any concept of what real Christianity is about. His idea of Christianity is some little boy's watered down crap. That isn't what I'm talking about. He also takes most of the verses he quotes WAY out of context (to fit his beliefs, of course. I'm seeing a pattern).

He talks a lot about rituals. I don't care about rituals, and the rituals really are not essential to the faith. But I'll touch on all of that in a few days when I have some time to write you a book.

I don't claim to know everything but I took a year outta my life to do nothing more than study the bible...and nothing but. So 9cyclops9 write on bro. I'll read till I'm blue in the face and my eyes can't take anymore.

loco said:

bottom line is prove it. 14 billion years old? that's nothing more than a theory. cabon dating has been shown not to accurate as well as some other methods of dating once thought to be accurate measurements of dating. Going with the info you posted I would assume you believe in evolution as well. If you anyone is crazy enough to believe that I'd like to see proof. heck in over 200 years nobody has seen any evidence of it?

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Its funny how Cyclops calls the site "rubbish" but his man-made bible is "absolute truth". I didnt know Cyclops was a religious scholar AND a scientist.

They measure the universe by taking space photographs of light and measure the light and how long it has been traveling. They're are light rays that have been traveling since the beginning of the universe.

14 billion, 140 billion, 1 billion, the point is the Bible bases its age on NOTHING but speculation and religious beliefs. This is a scientific process and is the most accurate estimation we have today. Its been PROVEN to an accuracy of 99.99%.

Come on, dont tell me you all dont believe in Evolution? We came from monkeys, just like alligators and lizards came from dinosaurs.

Christianity and Pe can they coexist? I say so. God gave us a body, a clay piece. Its our duty to improve upon it and make it better. Heck, why not?

A clay piece? I bet you get gains quick with a clay penis.

NeXus said:

Its funny how Cyclops calls the site "rubbish" but his man-made bible is "absolute truth". I didnt know Cyclops was a religious scholar AND a scientist.

They measure the universe by taking space photographs of light and measure the light and how long it has been traveling. They're are light rays that have been traveling since the beginning of the universe.

14 billion, 140 billion, 1 billion, the point is the Bible bases its age on NOTHING but speculation and religious beliefs. This is a scientific process and is the most accurate estimation we have today. Its been PROVEN to an accuracy of 99.99%.

Come on, dont tell me you all dont believe in Evolution? We came from monkeys, just like alligators and lizards came from dinosaurs.

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Man-made? Yes. God-inspired? Yes. Absolute truth? Yes.

And don't even think about telling me there is no absolute truth.

I don't claim to be a religious scholar OR a scientist, but I know enough about science and enough about the Bible (which neither you nor the author of that pamphlet know very much about, apparently) to know that there is no contradiction between science and the Bible. Let me make this statement once again:

THE BOOK OF GENESIS IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SCIENCE BOOK.

It says nothing about the age of the universe. Only about the history of man. Sure, it says God created the universe. But it does not say how long passed between "day" one and "day" two. So it is ENTIRELY plausible that billions of years could have passed before God saw fit to create the earth.

Evolution? I believe in evolution. From monkey to man? No. From monkey to new type of monkey? Yes. This happens all the time. It would be utterly stupid to say that evolution is completely bogus.

HOWEVER, there is absolutely NO proof, or even evidence, that we came from monkeys, and that monkeys came from some goop. NONE WHATSOEVER!!! You want to talk about something based on speculation? The theory that we came from goo is completely based on a guess! What evidence have we that this is even possible? Nothing!

The chance for life to have appeared out of non-living matter (what you call evolution) is one in 10 to the 60th power. Here's what that looks like:

.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%

(sorry about the space...not sure why it does that)

This is about the same chance you have of aiming at a one inch target 20,000,000,000 light years away (that's about 117,572,802,186,120,000,000,000 miles away) and hitting the target. Makes the probability of creation seem more likely, yes?

I'll give you this link again. You probably won't watch the video, but if you don't, then I'm not going to listen to any more of your arguments for evolution. You have to look at both sides.

Although I don't necessarily agree with everything he says (he's very conservative) he does a good job showing exactly why this theory is so ridiculous. Check it out. Video number 1.

http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=seminarset_online

Enjoy.

also if you are looking for a good creation backed site check out answersingenesis.org . Many good scientist once supporting evolution and through heavy research had found it made more sense to believe in creation over evolution.

and cyclops bro I'll stand up for this one. Going back to the languages in which the bible was orginally written in and doing some literal translation would support that that it was 6 literal days for creation. and why not in order? God being the creator of all doesn't need to wait for his creation to "evolve" to be able to continue His work. If by His very words things can come into being why would anyone limit Him to having to wait spans between His creation? The only thing from scripture someone could take and try and apply to this is "a day is to 1,000 years, and a 1,000 years is to a day" which would be taken outta context.

Evolution is sili at best. God's creation was designed to pro-create within the species. If you believe in evolution there would really be no seperation of species as it would have you believe. But rather we all came from cosmic dust which over time evolved. If that was so when was the last time anyone one you know has desires to mate with fish, monkey's, elephants, or whatever? unless someone is really messed up the answer would honestly be no one. Because it's not the way God intended it.

I didn't mean to imply that God waited for the creation to evolve. And I do believe that each day of creation was literally one day as we know it. But I don't see where it says they were six consecutive days. But I'll look into that.

The thing is, I don't care how old the universe is. If God made it 6000 years ago, that's His business. And if He made it 14 billion years ago that's also His business. It makes no difference to me. I believe either is possible. The scientists that say it is 14 billion years old could very likely be wrong (they have been wrong about atoms many times, and those are much easier to observe than the whole universe). And the people that believe it is 6000 years old could also be wrong.

The thing is, it makes no difference to my faith. My belief in Christ is not based upon anyone's belief of how old the universe is.

It's really great to see how many Christians we have here. You guys rock!

also bro just so you know from a fundamentalist christian view and from my study of the bible we would say the earth is roughly 10,000 yrs old give or take a little. (talking a few thousand years) If you are looking for some great reading material on the subject, the guy from the web site I posted on above-Dr. Ken Ham, has some awesome info and books on the subject. I've had privledge to meet him in person at a couple conferences, bible college, and to read his books. He has a strong Aussie accent but is a wealth of knowledge. and usually starts off with his history on how he became a creationist from an evolutionist background.

loco said:

also bro just so you know from a fundamentalist christian view and from my study of the bible we would say the earth is roughly 10,000 yrs old give or take a little. (talking a few thousand years) If you are looking for some great reading material on the subject, the guy from the web site I posted on above-Dr. Ken Ham, has some awesome info and books on the subject. I've had privledge to meet him in person at a couple conferences, bible college, and to read his books. He has a strong Aussie accent but is a wealth of knowledge. and usually starts off with his history on how he became a creationist from an evolutionist background.

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Loco, Ham is an awesome speaker. I have seen a number of his tapes/videos and he really knows his subject. GS