DLD: An observation on pre-PE size

M

Metal Ed

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DLD, you wrote the following in your lengthly (and very helpful) "Is everything what it seems" post:

>>>>ARE MEN BORN WITH IT:
Again my opinion, but I think the difference between men who never P.E.ed fall into the average size area within about an inch either way. I think that men who engaged in alot of masturbation growing up may have slightly longer units than the people who didn’t due to the constant pulling. So I think men are not born huge...I think most of us are born with the same opportunity as the next. >>>>>


Over at Thunder's I posted the following information. You might find it interesting.

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Ever since starting Penis Enlargement I have noticed an increase in nocturnal erections. I've always gotten hard-ons while sleeping, but now, even more so.

Very often I wake up with a partial erection all squished up in my tighty-whiteys. Often times it is very much like doing a partially erect bend or partially erect squeeze. And everytime I wake up like this, I wonder just how long my penis has been in that state.

Lately I've been thinking back to my adolescence and remembering how I would often sleep through multiple nocturnal erections. I got quite good, for example, at holding back my urine and never having to get up in the middle of the night to piss. I'd hold it all in until morning. And so I'd wake up with a throbbing hard-on that had been subjected to a prolonged squeeze or partial bend for who knows how long.

As a teenager, I always wondered if that was bad for my penis, or if I was unknowingly doing something that would affect my penis in the long term.

Lately, with my newfound knowledge of Penis Enlargement, I've been wondering if years and years of sleeping this way, throughout my growth years, contributed at all to my pre-Penis Enlargement 7 x 5.7 size.

Or maybe I'm just sniffing glue and there's no connection at all. Still, I got to wondering.....

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I also posted a poll at Thunder's, encouraging members to enter their pre-Penis Enlargement sizes and choice of underwear durng their teenage years. I intend to look for correlations after I get enough responses.

I am not sure if I should post the same poll here? I know a lot of guys come here and to Thunder's, so I didn't want to be redundant.

If there is enough interest from the guys here I'll set up a second poll here and pool the results.......

Or you guys can just post with your pre-Penis Enlargement measurements and choice of underwear (boxers or briefs).
 
Originally posted by Metal Ed
>>>>ARE MEN BORN WITH IT:
Again my opinion, but I think the difference between men who never P.E.ed fall into the average size area within about an inch either way. I think that men who engaged in alot of masturbation growing up may have slightly longer units than the people who didn’t due to the constant pulling. So I think men are not born huge...I think most of us are born with the same opportunity as the next. >>>>>
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I don't understand why some guys just cannot accept that some men are born with huge dicks. Why must we all be within 1" at either end? Look at height, for example. I've known adult men who were only 5-4 and one who was 6-11. People have vastly different-sized ears, noses, lips, hands, feet, etc. Why not vastly different-sized penises?
As I've mentioned, I went to school with 2 guys who were local legends - one had 9" the other 10" (and this was back in late '70's - early 80's). I'm certain that neither had surgery. Also, they lived at home with family. I doubt they hung weights or Penis Enlargement'd - if they did, I can't imagine how. They lived at home, went to school, played on sports teams, hung out at the local drive-in, pizza shop, etc., etc. They couldn't have had any time to do any penis enlargement whatsoever. They just had big dicks - naturally. Even the one boy's mother used to say, blushing, that her son was always "unusual down there."
What about the guy measured at the turn-of-the-century at 13" plus? Hey, I Penis Enlargement, and you guys obviously do as well - but that doesn't mean that every guy with a big'un did it also. I find an odd sort of counter-universe in these forums that insists:
(1) Every guy in adult entertainment does Penis Enlargement, pumps, jelqs, hangs, etc.
(2) adult entertainment stars are at most 8 or 9" - it's all just tiny gals, wide-angle lenses, etc.
(3) Nobody is born with a big dick
Sheeeeeeeesh! Some guys are just well-endowed. Get over it and move on.
 
Originally posted by WaxN
I don't understand why some guys just cannot accept that some men are born with huge dicks. Why must we all be within 1" at either end? Look at height, for example. I've known adult men who were only 5-4 and one who was 6-11. People have vastly different-sized ears, noses, lips, hands, feet, etc. Why not vastly different-sized penises?
As I've mentioned, I went to school with 2 guys who were local legends - one had 9" the other 10" (and this was back in late '70's - early 80's). I'm certain that neither had surgery. Also, they lived at home with family. I doubt they hung weights or Penis Enlargement'd - if they did, I can't imagine how. They lived at home, went to school, played on sports teams, hung out at the local drive-in, pizza shop, etc., etc. They couldn't have had any time to do any penis enlargement whatsoever. They just had big dicks - naturally. Even the one boy's mother used to say, blushing, that her son was always "unusual down there."
What about the guy measured at the turn-of-the-century at 13" plus? Hey, I Penis Enlargement, and you guys obviously do as well - but that doesn't mean that every guy with a big'un did it also. I find an odd sort of counter-universe in these forums that insists:
(1) Every guy in adult entertainment does Penis Enlargement, pumps, jelqs, hangs, etc.
(2) adult entertainment stars are at most 8 or 9" - it's all just tiny gals, wide-angle lenses, etc.
(3) Nobody is born with a big dick
Sheeeeeeeesh! Some guys are just well-endowed. Get over it and move on.
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From your post I assume that these men with bigger noses are not twice the size of a normal nose, nor are the ears or for that matter the penis. If this occurs it is an extreme rarity. With that said I do not encourage men to believe that there are no men out there with bigger penis's than others. I am, however, disputing that these men are born with 9 and 10 inch dicks. This is as abnormal as a guy born with 6" ears or a 5" nose. I have done EXTENSIVE studies into this and I have always said that the spectrum of average size can range anywhere from 4.75" up to 7". 7" in the same proportions as a 7' man would also give the possibility of slightly larger ears, feet or noses but this is not a scientific fact. Some men that are 6' 5" with size 14 feet may be born with a 4" penis while a guy that is 5' tall with tiny hands and feet may have a 7" penis.
 
DLD,
I have seen the size of noses & lips vary by that much. Some folks having a tiny button nose while others have a huge honker. Same with lips - some very narrow, others very thick.
But what of the 2 guys I knew? I saw their dongs with my own eyes (as did half of our school). They had monster cocks. To simply dismiss that as a "birth defect" doesn't make sense - because their cocks looked "normal" in appearance (just huge) and their tools functioned (i.e., they were able to have sex).
I respect your knowledge about Penis Enlargement a great deal, and I don't doubt that you've studied this, however I can't erase what I saw from my memory. I know these guys had cocks way bigger than 7" (the one since he was barely 13 years old). They didn't have surgery, I'm sure they didn't Penis Enlargement - and they didn't suddenly turn up with big cocks - they always had them (even the one kid's mother lamented her son's "unusual" genitalia).
If you want to call it a birth defect, fine....I just wish I was thus afflicted. :)
 
Originally posted by WaxN
DLD,
I have seen the size of noses & lips vary by that much. Some folks having a tiny button nose while others have a huge honker. Same with lips - some very narrow, others very thick.
But what of the 2 guys I knew? I saw their dongs with my own eyes (as did half of our school). They had monster cocks. To simply dismiss that as a "birth defect" doesn't make sense - because their cocks looked "normal" in appearance (just huge) and their tools functioned (i.e., they were able to have sex).
I respect your knowledge about Penis Enlargement a great deal, and I don't doubt that you've studied this, however I can't erase what I saw from my memory. I know these guys had cocks way bigger than 7" (the one since he was barely 13 years old). They didn't have surgery, I'm sure they didn't Penis Enlargement - and they didn't suddenly turn up with big cocks - they always had them (even the one kid's mother lamented her son's "unusual" genitalia).
If you want to call it a birth defect, fine....I just wish I was thus afflicted. :)
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I will upload a couple of pictures to explain my position. But I think you may have run into a couple of mutants:)
 
These pictures represent what a guy with an average nose and/or ears would look like with eyes and/or nose at twice the average size. Possible but very rare.
 
Originally posted by doublelongdaddy
These pictures represent what a guy with an average nose and/or ears would look like with eyes and/or nose at twice the average size. Possible but very rare.
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Yes, you took a guy who already had a normal-larger nose, then resized it by 200% - but that's not what I said. I said that some people have a nose that is twice the size of other people's noses. But you took one guy and doubled the size of his nose. That would be like taking a little guy with a size 7 shoe, then morphing to a size 17 - making it look absolutely ridiculous then saying, "See, nobody could have a foot that big."
I've known some little dudes, especially Asians, with small faces & tiny button noses. And I've known taller guys with very prominent noses. I don't doubt that some people have noses twice the size of other people.
Again, I'm not making a running argument out of this; nor am I suggesting that big cocks aren't "rare" - I'm sure they are. But even reputable studies have printed tables show the respective sizes of their subjects - some under 4.75", others between 9-10". My point is that they're out there, and they're not necessarily "birth defects," but I agree that they're very rare. It is probably statistically very odd that I encountered 2 such males in a school of about 1,000 students (which would be 2 penises between 9-10" out of roughly 500 males).
I also think your study of adult entertainment size is very enlightened, although I've read others say things I didn't agree with - such as John Holmes only being 9.5 - 10" (I don't believe he was 14" obviously, but I think he was between 10.5-11.5" at least).
However, I'll concede that none of us has the definitive answer...not until we conduct a serious study involving thousands of men, spanning across the ethnic groups.
 
Wax, I love disputing this...I do not see it as arguing just good debate.
 
Originally posted by Metal Ed
Lately I've been thinking back to my adolescence and remembering how I would often sleep through multiple nocturnal erections. I got quite good, for example, at holding back my urine and never having to get up in the middle of the night to piss. I'd hold it all in until morning. And so I'd wake up with a throbbing hard-on that had been subjected to a prolonged squeeze or partial bend for who knows how long.
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Wow. That makes me thing about a bad corelation in my life. I posted sometime back about my lack of morning erections, as compared to when I was a teenager. I can also remember now that I would never wake up to piss as a teenager, but it's not an unusual occurence now, though I sleep through most nights.
 
WaxN and DLD, you guys have made some great points. I would say that a huge percentage of guys are within that 1" of average. However, like WaxN said, I have seen people with small noses and people with large noses. I pretty confident that I've seen people with noses twice the size of those with really small noses. I do believe that some guys are born really big. Life isn't fair and this is no exception.
 
I reckon only a VERY small portion of men have REAL Monsters from birth.
And I reckon thats still effected by their luck of the genes and their race.

DLD has done shit loadz of research into this and I have read EVERY fucking page on it their is and I have to agree with him over Waxn here.

But the biggest cock I saw was from a Guy from Niue or Samoa, either way it was a Pacific Islander.
He was hung flaccid like 9/10 inches...I can measure and estimate fine.

This guy worked with us at another fire station.
We went out one night me and two other guys with him and got some chix.
We all had a groupy....and I am telling ya he was at least 12 inches long NBP and the girth about 6.5'ish.

He was fucking gigantic.
But hes very very very RARE indeed.
The other guys were either small or average with me being large-average / big.

Also the samoans have a history of penile enhancement thru their tribes.
Maybe this is where he got that rediculous size from????

I know some of you will jump of ya chair and say IMPOSSIBLE.....Penis Enlargement AINT GENETIC POSSIBLE.
Well I say yes it is over many centurys and I mean MANY 1000's of years of daily hanging of rocks from ya beanstalk via father and son each genaration.
Over time this IMHO could give them Samons of today giant dicks.....of course their ancestors would have to been commited to it all.

But anyways enough of this.

Big men real....are VERY VERY rare indeed IMHO.
DLD has done research and backed it up.

Goodday.
 
Another thing that may skew the legitimacy of Monsters at Birth may be privacy. We are very open here about our Penis Enlargement techniques but some men, boys or children for that matter may not be. In some families they may be taught Penis Enlargement by their fathers and told never to say the better of it. In this case some guys who are huge may Penis Enlargement but will never admit it. The penis comes in all shapes and sizes but I truly believe 99% of the men in the world who are not victim to some defect or privy to Penis Enlargement are between the range of upper 4" to lower 7".

Another thing that may be overlooked is our own perception of size. It is very easy to look at a penis in a locker room and see a bigger size than our own and have an exaggerated view of this. It is very easy for women to make the same type of assumptions. I know all of us have done this, myself included, where we see a big penis, say 7", and misconstrue the size and say 9". One last point is it becomes easy to make an assumption on erect size based on the flaccid size we see in the locker room. Flaccid size is almost never a reflection of erect size. I think some people may see a guy in the changing room with 7" soft and just make the assumption he may be 10" hard.

There are so many if, but and what abouts when it comes to penis size. When I did the original study I looked at thousands of dicks. I measured thousands of dicks. Most men were right around 6". Some were slightly longer some where slightly shorter but I think it's safe to say 99% of these men fell between the 4.75-7" spam respectively. The monsters that fell into the 8-11" range all showed tell tale signs of Penis Enlargement. Another important bit of data is that in my entire time being involved in these forums no one has started Penis Enlargement with a 9" penis.

This is kind of funny too. Imagine a 13 year old with a natural 9" hang. The average 13 year old upper leg is in the range of 9-10" which means it would be slapping against his knee caps...imagine that in the shower room.
 
I just recalled an incident from a while back...almost a year ago actually. I was working this dumpy factory job.....those of you who have seen the movie 8 Mile ...just picture me as the part of "Rabbit"...without the blond hair. Anyway, this guy I worked next to most of the time...just out of the blue one day starts talking about this black guy from somewhere like Nigeria that he used to work with. He told me how this guy who spoke in broken english used to brag about how big his penis was to him and how he had used weights to make it bigger and how he preferred to have sex with small women because they usually thought he was too big for them. This co-worker of mine did not know that I personally engaged in Penis Enlargement ...so that made it even more odd to me that this guy would just suddenly bring up the subject. "Monsters at birth" are indeed are rarity. Could you imagine that though? "I see the head!...no wait....it's a Penis EnlargementNIS....oh my gaaawd!" LOL.
 
Originally posted by REDZULU2003


Also the samoans have a history of penile enhancement thru their tribes.
Maybe this is where he got that rediculous size from????

I know some of you will jump of ya chair and say IMPOSSIBLE.....Penis Enlargement AINT GENETIC POSSIBLE.
Well I say yes it is over many centurys and I mean MANY 1000's of years of daily hanging of rocks from ya beanstalk via father and son each genaration.
Over time this IMHO could give them Samons of today giant dicks.....of course their ancestors would have to been commited to it all.



Goodday.
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Yes, I will jump out of my chair and say "impossible." That is hogwash. There is no such thing as inheritance of acquired characteristics. Sorry.

You either saw a true natural freak, or a guy who had done lots of Penis Enlargement himself. Whether or not his ancestors did it has no bearing on his size.
 
I'm with DLD on this one, specifically the following:


"I think some people may see a guy in the changing room with 7" soft and just make the assumption he may be 10" hard. "

I remember some 20 years agao, being in college, and seeing a friend in the locker room for the first time. It was after we had participated in some intramural sports. I had to look away quickly, because I was shocked. Could have sworn at that time, that he was 7" flaccid. He was also slim in those days, you get the drift. Of course, I then concluded that he had to be 10" when hard. Imagine when he and I and some other buddies used to go bar hopping, etc. It was in my stupid head that he was going to get all the babes, in fact, he was rather shy and not outgoing at all.

Of course, the reality is that it was NOT 7" flaccid, probably more like 5-5.5". Just that initial shock distorted the size. And of course, he could well have been a total shower, who in reality was 7" raging hard, putting him at the high end of average and that's all. But to our circle of friends, back in our college days in the early '80's, he was hung like a stallion.

Interesting, as we fast forward 20 years, I actually play recreational hockey on a team with him and some of all the old college buddies. He has gained some weight over the years, and well, put it this way, it does not look all that impressive anymore. Go figure.

Blackandwhite
 
Hey everybody, go look at the Penis Poll on this very forum. It is a classic "Bell curve." Since there are several hundred guys in the sample, it is a very good demonstration of the distribution of penis length (I just started a girth poll there too, so vote in that one, will ya?)

The farther you get from the average, the rarer it is.

As for nose sizes and the like, a better example would be female breast sizes. That range is extreme, much greater than the penis size range. You can have women with practially no breast development at all, and then you can have women with breasts as large as watermellons.

The penis and the breast are both 100% soft tissue. Whereas most other human body parts have bone or cartilage. Also, as we know, mates are selected on penis and breast size, so evolutionary genetics have been influenced to some extent by human selection.
 
Originally posted by doublelongdaddy
Some men that are 6' 5" with size 14 feet may be born with a 4" penis while a guy that is 5' tall with tiny hands and feet may have a 7" penis.
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Agreed. Men are usually larger than women in height and weight. But the pecker has to match with her cunt's depth for reproduction (thinking in terms of trial and error evolution process where something that's favorable is kept while something that doesn't work is discarded in future generations). So my guess is that resulting genetics after evolution regulate the penis size to remain in the average (compatible) range. Too big a dick would not be *naturally* compatible to reproduction. A regular guy would win over the monster cock guy, in terms of impregnating a female (his chances are more), thereby passing on his regular cock genes to the offspring.... my 2 cents ;)
 
Metal Ed posted

Whether or not his ancestors did it has no bearing on his size.

---

No disrespect to you...but I am stickin to ma guns :p IMHO I think that it can happen but it would take a VERY long time.
A saying.... 'Life will find a way' / 'Life will evolve' comes into effect here IMO.

Theirs an island I cant remember where.
But theirs like shit loadz of finches their.
Now we all know they eat seed.
But these finches many 1000's of years ago ran outta this food.
So they evolved to eat blood from other animals.
Its true...I saw a program on it.
These finches eat and drink blood.

The point to this is....that over time things evolve and change.
When these finches hatch outta the eggs their instinct it to drink blood...not the seeds they would crave milleniums ago.

But I dont want some huge argument or debate over this.
Its in the wrong subject anyhow....but its MHO based on facts I have gathred.
Same with you Metal Ed.
 
Originally posted by blackandwhite
Interesting, as we fast forward 20 years, I actually play recreational hockey on a team with him and some of all the old college buddies. He has gained some weight over the years, and well, put it this way, it does not look all that impressive anymore. Go figure.
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Weight will definitely devastate EL and will absolutely destroy flaccid length. I have gained .25" BPenis EnlargementL recently, but .75" EL and I attribute this to weight loss in recent weeks. I cannot ever remember seeing a guy carrying a significant amount of excess weight that appeared to have a large flaccid cock.
 
Originally posted by bobbdobbs
As for nose sizes and the like, a better example would be female breast sizes. That range is extreme, much greater than the penis size range. You can have women with practially no breast development at all, and then you can have women with breasts as large as watermellons.

The penis and the breast are both 100% soft tissue. Whereas most other human body parts have bone or cartilage. Also, as we know, mates are selected on penis and breast size, so evolutionary genetics have been influenced to some extent by human selection.
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Well, there certainly are some women that have some natural, enormous breasts. They are likely more common that natural, enormous dicks, but we can conclude that some guys would be born with exceptional cocks. It seems the only thing we're really debating here is how rare these exceptions are.
 
>>>>No disrespect to you...but I am stickin to ma guns

That's cool.


>>>A saying.... 'Life will find a way' / 'Life will evolve' comes into effect here IMO.


No, it doesn't.

Evolution involves the passing on of genetically determined traits.

Penis Enlargement is environmental, i.e., not genetic.





>>Theirs an island I cant remember where.
>>>But theirs like shit loadz of finches their.
<>>Now we all know they eat seed.
><>>>But these finches many 1000's of years ago ran outta this food.
>>>>So they evolved to eat blood from other animals.
>>>>Its true...I saw a program on it.
>>>>These finches eat and drink blood.



Correct. The finches that could survive on blood lived and passed on their traits. Over time, the ones that could thrive best on blood were favored.

This has nothing to do with an individual adapting itself to eating blood, then passing on those blood-eating abilities to his descendants.

This has to do with some finches being naturally a little better at living off of blood than other finches, surviving when others couldn't and passing on those traits to their descendants.




>>>When these finches hatch outta the eggs their instinct it to >>>>drink blood...not the seeds they would crave milleniums ago.



Because all the finches who couldn't live on blood died.


>>>But I dont want some huge argument or debate over this.
>>>>Its in the wrong subject anyhow....but its MHO based on >>>>facts I have gathred.


Don't take this personally, but it's against all evolutionary theory and there's not a biologist in the world who would agree with your take on what happened with the finches.


Now, will someone please tell me about their pre Penis Enlargement size and their choice of underwear? :)
 
Originally posted by Metal Ed
Yes, I will jump out of my chair and say "impossible." That is hogwash. There is no such thing as inheritance of acquired characteristics. Sorry.

You either saw a true natural freak, or a guy who had done lots of Penis Enlargement himself. Whether or not his ancestors did it has no bearing on his size.
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Agreed. The only thing that could have a "generational" effect would be a culture of selection - where only/mostly big-dicked males were sought as mates. This would gradually weed out the little-dicked guys. But nothing you do after birth could have any effect, genetically, on your offspring - unless, of course, you received some type of contamination (LSD, radiation, etc.) which caused damage to your DNA - but this, of course, would do nothing for dick size.
 
Originally posted by doublelongdaddy
In some families they may be taught Penis Enlargement by their fathers and told never to say the better of it. In this case some guys who are huge may Penis Enlargement but will never admit it. The penis comes in all shapes and sizes but I truly believe 99% of the men in the world who are not victim to some defect or privy to Penis Enlargement are between the range of upper 4" to lower 7".
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Again, we're back to the "if he's big, he must've Penis Enlargement'd" syndrome. It's circuitous reasoning, with nothing substantial to back it up.
Furthermore, your estimate of "99% of the men in the world...being between 4-plus to the low 7's" goes against every study that I've ever read.
The most common & most reputable seem to indicate that 83% of men are between 5 to 7 inches erect. But that leaves 17% who are not. I seem to recall that 4 or 5% were below 5", but that leaves 12-13% above 7 inches. I believe the number who possessed 8" or more was only about 6-7% of the population. However, from what you wrote, you seem to be saying the number of guys above the "lower 7" are less than 1%. The less-than-1% group was in the 9-plus range. Which I think is probably accurate, making my experiences with those 2 guys fit right in (2 at 9-10" out of 500 males, is about 1/2 percent).
I would also dispute your "hidden society of Penis Enlargement'ers." If that were remotely the case, there would not be so much ignorance regarding Penis Enlargement, and the fact that nobody (outside of our communities) even remotely believes that this stuff would work.
Also, why would the Penis Enlargement paysites abound & profit so much money if this is already common knowledge? It became more "common" after the advent of the Internet, but I bet the number of guys who do this is phenomenally rare - probably more rare than a natural 10-incher.
Also, notice what we've done....we've taken this subject beyond the realm of reason:
(1) If we see a big flaccid hang, our mind is just playing tricks on us [optical illusion]
(2) If a woman describes lovers with huge dongs, she is just bad at guessing size [inaccurate size estimate] or she's exaggerating [deception].
(3) If we see a huge dong in the pornos, he either Penis Enlargement'd [begging the question], is augmented by special lenses/small women [optical illusions again or commercial fraud/deception].
Philosophers have written about the epic battle of Reason vs. Irrationality....such obstinacy cannot be combatted by Reason. Only when 2 minds are genuinely open can there be a worthwhile intellectual exchange.
Red says I've somehow been proven wrong, but then he relates a guy with a 12" cock (which I'm sure DLD would dispute), then he somehow believes that cock was "genetically" passed down through the ages.
Okay....what's on T.V. anyway?
 
Originally posted by WaxN
(1) If we see a big flaccid hang, our mind is just playing tricks on us [optical illusion]
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This is not what I said. I stated that many men make the assumption that if a guy has a big flaccid hang that he has huge erect size. Another point on this matter the 2 men you saw in the locker-room did you measure them? DId you witness there erect 9 and 10 inch penis? or did you make an assumption based on their flaccid size? Was there a ruler handy?

Originally posted by WaxN
(2) If a woman describes lovers with huge dongs, she is just bad at guessing size [inaccurate size estimate] or she's exaggerating [deception].
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of course. Try this experiment....I have many times. The next girl that talks about this guy with a HUGE dong and quotes a size ask her to draw a line to this effect. Everytime I have done this the women was off by inches!

Originally posted by WaxN
(3) If we see a huge dong in the pornos, he either Penis Enlargement'd [begging the question], is augmented by special lenses/small women [optical illusions again or commercial fraud/deception].
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I have already proven this in my study. The adult entertainment market is obsessed with big dick adult entertainment. You think they go out and get a huge girl with gigantic hands and a regular lens when they can do the opposite and make a big dick look larger than life. If this was the case my study would be worthless. I have asked these questions from a NY Adult Film Producer (a Friend of JAZ) and the first thing he mentioned was the Ultra Wide Angle Zoom. Second was tiny females. Case in point Mandingo (I will post these pics for everyone to see) I have seen him look 14" long with the right conditions, I have seen him look smaller than 8 with the wrong environment.

Originally posted by WaxN
Philosophers have written about the epic battle of Reason vs. Irrationality....such obstinacy cannot be combatted by Reason. Only when 2 minds are genuinely open can there be a worthwhile intellectual exchange.
Red says I've somehow been proven wrong, but then he relates a guy with a 12" cock (which I'm sure DLD would dispute), then he somehow believes that cock was "genetically" passed down through the ages.
Okay....what's on T.V. anyway?
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WaxN I am very open to your views as a matter of fact I encourage them. Do I dispute a 12" penis...Until I see it with my own eyes and a ruler I do.
 
DLD, check these out....

http://www.sizesurvey.com/result.html

2,545 subjects

Penis EnlargementRCENTILE FLACCID ERECT CIRCUMFERENCE
0 25(1.0") 68(2.7") 60(2.4")
10 50(2.0") 125(4.9") 95(3.7")
20 60(2.4") 140(5.5") 110(4.3")
30 73(2.9") 147(5.8") 120(4.7")
40 80(3.1") 152(6.0") 125(4.9")
50 88(3.5") 160(6.3") 130(5.1")
60 95(3.7") 170(6.7") 134(5.3")
70 100(3.9") 176(6.9") 140(5.5")
80 110(4.3") 185(7.3") 150(5.9")
90 120(4.7") 200(7.9") 160(6.3")
100 157(6.2") 260(10.2") 205(8.1")


Also note that these are NOT BP, as evidenced by the photo example.
Also, few blacks were included in the survey, but the follow up is being conducted in the D.C. area, so those NBP sizes should be pushed up even higher.
But just the above survey indicates that roughly 20% of men were 7.3" NBP or more; 10% were 7.9% BP or more. With NBP measurements up to 10.2"

http://www.penis-size-facts.com/penis-size-facts.html

This survey is also NBP - and the numbers are also much higher than you state. Above 7.26" NBP is 5.7% (not 1%). And these are NBP not BP (I have a full inch fatpad, so it's conceivable that the above numbers could easily be 8 - 8.25" BPenis EnlargementL or bigger is 5.7%).
 
WaxN I have studied these surveys extensively and all but one is really useless for one reason. The subjects measured themselves.

The one study I did like that was accurate, is Lifestyles Condoms survey. I think it left the smallest amount of error. In the Spring 2001 in Cancun, Mexico, Lifestyles gathered a total of 301 male volunteers over 18 years old. Each subject was measured by a researcher, which eliminated the cheating factor. The results of the Lifestyles survey found that average penis erect length is 5.87 inches and erect girth is 4.97 inches. Also, according to the survey, 54% of subjects measured between 5.5 inches and 6.3 inches in erect length with 53.3% measuring between 4.72 inches and 5.11 inches in girth.

Mow as far as photography and illusion are concerned I used a picture you posted where you stated "Here's a still of some guy with a monster cock...he must be near a foot long & at least 7" around.... I coupled that picture with one from a less illusionary shoot. You be the judge but I think it's safe to say he is not a foot long. The model here is Mandingo.

The picture on the left is a flat regular lens. The picture on the right is a Ultra Wide Angle Zoom...The same penis.
 
Originally posted by doublelongdaddy
Another point on this matter the 2 men you saw in the locker-room did you measure them? DId you witness there erect 9 and 10 inch penis? or did you make an assumption based on their flaccid size? Was there a ruler handy?

....

The next girl that talks about this guy with a HUGE dong and quotes a size ask her to draw a line to this effect. Everytime I have done this the women was off by inches!
Click to expand...
Sorry, I missed these. As to my buddies, I never saw the guy with 9 erect, but he honestly was 7.5-8 flaccid in the lockerroom - he really hung low & flopped around. The guy with 10" I saw erect at parties many times - when he would get drunk he would whip it out & bounce it up and down with his thumbs, like a diving board. No ruler was present, but DAMN was he big. He was almost my exact height, body size, etc., and I was 6.5" BPenis EnlargementL at the time; he was damn-sure at least 3.5" longer than me, and I would guess my present girth (6.25") or more.
Regarding the line-drawing experiment, I think that's misleading. A line, due to it's thinness (-----------------------------------) would tend to look longer than it really is, causing a girl to under-draw her estimate. I've seen gals give a more reliable estimate using their hands. One made a fist and said to her girlfriend, in front of me, he was about this long (and held one hand about 3" above her fist), showing a length of about 6.25-6.5" (assuming her fist was about 3.25" across). But I saw one girl once put both fists together and indicate that his head, and some shaft, was still exposed - that had to put her boyfriend at easily more than 8" erect.
But, here's the dilemma....you don't believe women's accounts, you're suspicious of camera lenses & angles, and you don't seem to subscribe to the prevailing surveys.....
What's left? Guessing? I'm sure not going to embark on a dick-sucking journey to find out for myself, LOL.
 
Originally posted by WaxN
you don't believe women's accounts, you're suspicious of camera lenses & angles, and you don't seem to subscribe to the prevailing surveys.....
What's left? Guessing? I'm sure not going to embark on a dick-sucking journey to find out for myself, LOL.
Click to expand...

But all of the above mentioned items are guesses. I require proof. Some girl saying it looked 10" really is not concrete nor is a camera view (see the picture I posted) Surveys I have always disputed (see my last post) We need to slow down were missing each others posts lol.
 
Regarding the Mandingo pics, I blurted out the 12 x 7 because I was shocked by his size, never saw him before. But he could be a tiny guy (John Holmes, for example, was tall). But the pic I sent was a still from a video - so I saw his cock in action. The other pic you posted doesn't even look like the same cock (I'm not saying it isn't), so I'd guess that there was a different level of arousal. Think of your cock at 90%, 95%, etc.
I'd bet my life, however, that there's no way in hell that he's "only 8 inches." Like I said, I saw the video of that woman sucking it. He was also screwing her in a weird position - she had her knees drawn up, while he was laying on his side, at her bottom. He wasn't even up against her, he was thrusting rapidly & he never fell out. I doubt the video was shot with a wide-angle lense with too much distortion since nothing else in the video picture looked skewed (for example, her pussy or his balls didn't look gigantic - just his cock).
But I don't honestly think he was 12 x 7, just as I'm sure he's not just 8 or 9 inches either.
 
Originally posted by WaxN
But I don't honestly think he was 12 x 7, just as I'm sure he's not just 8 or 9 inches either.
Click to expand...

and this is the main problem with video and pictures...WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE. I did not do my study to dispute that gigantic cocks are in the world nor did I do it to prove every hung guy does Penis Enlargement. I did the study to calm my own anxiety in the porno world and as I worked on it I found out allot about dick size. I brought my data to you guys to help calm your anxieties and create more realistic goals.

Are there huge cocks out there? Of course...What is huge? In my opinion 7 to 8 inches is monster. Jen has slept with many men (sorry hun) in her insatiable quest:) she came across one monster a guy who was the size of a standard US [words=http://fleshlight.sjv.io/c/348327/302851/4702]FleshLight[/words]...7x6. Look at a [words=http://fleshlight.sjv.io/c/348327/302851/4702]FleshLight[/words]....It is HUGE. My point is HUGE can sometimes be synonymous with exaggerated size estimates. There is so much room for errorr in video, word of mouth, pictures, etc. The only way to be sure is to measure the penis yourself...which I had to go through with GQ magazine :( and it's not pleasant.

THe most important message my study was meant to invoke was this; We have the potential to be the biggest out there. Fuck studies, fuck he said she said shit...We own the secret and we are creating our own bell curve:)
 
I must say, DLD, you are the David Hume of the dick world: you believe neither eyewitness accounts, surveys, or cameras - just sort of an a priori knowledge of penis size.
I must bow to such discriminating skepticism - you are the cock connoisseur par excellence ("cockoisseur"). I should prefer the destruction of my favorite ruler, than to disbelieve the limits of "human understanding" by accepting the value of the numbered gradients.....whatever that means.
Cheers...
I must be off for my Blasters (kudos for the exercise).
 
Originally posted by WaxN
I must say, DLD, you are the David Hume of the dick world: you believe neither eyewitness accounts, surveys, or cameras - just sort of an a priori knowledge of penis size.
I must bow to such discriminating skepticism - you are the cock connoisseur par excellence ("cockoisseur"). I should prefer the destruction of my favorite ruler, than to disbelieve the limits of "human understanding" by accepting the value of the numbered gradients.....whatever that means.
Cheers...
I must be off for my Blasters (kudos for the exercise).
Click to expand...

...and I bow to your intelligent debate.
 
Originally posted by WaxN
Agreed. The only thing that could have a "generational" effect would be a culture of selection - where only/mostly big-dicked males were sought as mates. This would gradually weed out the little-dicked guys. But nothing you do after birth could have any effect, genetically, on your offspring - unless, of course, you received some type of contamination (LSD, radiation, etc.) which caused damage to your DNA - but this, of course, would do nothing for dick size.
Click to expand...


Wad!

This is a first!

We *agree*!

Think..... we had to debate atheism, Hitler, the efficacy of pumping (which I am still trying to determine, myself), Barry Bonds and Babe Ruth, before finding common ground.

And here's one more thing we agree on: I do think that there are natural 9, 10's and even 11's out there. Just exceedingly rare. I don't agree with DLD that everyone who's huge has to have Penis Enlargement'd.

However, I do think that DLD is on to something when he says that some of the folks who start Penis Enlargement a little bit above average (the 7 inch guys) may have inadvertently done some Penis Enlargement in their youth without knowing it. I'm not saying ALL - and I'm sure some guys are just naturally blessed with 7 x 5.7 the same way others are naturally blessed with 10 x 7' - but I think SOME.

In my case, I know now that I did a lot of partially erect squeezes and bends during my youth, all without realizing it at the time. It just happened and since it didn't hurt or kill my dick, I just let it keep happening.

I'm not saying it had a *huge* effect but I wonder if this is why I started at 7 x 5.7 rather than 6 x 5.

Heck, maybe it didn't do a damn thing at all, or maybe it did. I have no way of knowin for sure, unless I clone myself and raise little Ed-prime, only buying him boxers and forbiding him to sleep through the urge to urinate ("Ed-prime! Wake up! It's dad! Go pee!") and then measuring his wee-wee when he's all grown up.

I'm just throwing out some ideas and livening up the board.
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by Metal Ed
I don't agree with DLD that everyone who's huge has to have Penis Enlargement'd.
Click to expand...
Where did I make this difinitive statement? Is this a quote? I plead the 5th:p but seriously, I don't think I ever made this statement :confused:


Originally posted by Metal Ed
I'm just throwing out some ideas and livening up the board.
Click to expand...
...and you are doing a fine job of this. Thanks for your involvement in this topic!:)
 
I am still stickin to ma guns :p
No offense but none of us are professors or anything....so what we say is our own opinion...hopefully based on fact.

I am convinced that over a long time it can be inherited,
I think you a misreading this and thinking a few 100 years....I am talking MANY 1000's of reguler years exercising.
I think that slowly [VERY] this will somehow effect the genes,,,,I dunno how but IMHO I think it will.

I dont care what you say ;) your just a normal guy not a Biologist or anything like a Proffesor so I'll stick to what I think.
 
I do think that naturally big born guys are extremely rare. So, my opinion is that much less than half of the big dicks are natural and the rest are Penis Enlargementd ones. IOW, there are many huge dicks for sure and a majority of them are Penis Enlargementd ones while the rest minority are all natural.
 
I also reckon that most BIGGER men some of us see in adult entertainment....look bigger than they are as its our mind telling us their MUCH bigger than they are as we aint as large as them.

Plus imagery and video aint the best way of telling size accurate at all.
Even going of a girls hands, head and build etc aint accurate as they all vary.

At the end of the day we must GUESS GUESS GUESS and agree to disagree on this one.

We will only know the REAL size of Mandingo and Lex if they have a ruler rammed into their abs along their shaft......and ya know what??? I reckon they will not be as big as some of us think.

That picture of mandingo......the girl has TINY TINY hands.
I'd say his penis is 8.2/8.5 inches long.
With the girth in the 6 range somewhere.

Still Big but not 12 inches like before.

Another thing with adult entertainment....they want to sell the film.....alas it must look convincing....it must work some of you think its bigger than it is....easy to do....the buisness want this.
 
I think you are wrong regarding inheritance over 1000 of generations by doing Penis Enlargement. The only way that genes for "a bigger dick" would be passed is if the father has these genes. He would have gotten them from his father (meaning a man without pe gains) or because of a mutation (meaning that the genes from his father did not have any effect). This would be the same even after 1000 of generations.

A question to DLD. The guy in this film, is it Mandingo? Also, what would be his estimated size (length and girth)?

http://www.sexvidz.com/movies/DIV00011.MPG

Priapos
 
Originally posted by WaxN
I must say, DLD, you are the David Hume of the dick world: you believe neither eyewitness accounts, surveys, or cameras - just sort of an a priori knowledge of penis size.
I must bow to such discriminating skepticism - you are the cock connoisseur par excellence ("cockoisseur"). I should prefer the destruction of my favorite ruler, than to disbelieve the limits of "human understanding" by accepting the value of the numbered gradients.....whatever that means.
Cheers...
I must be off for my Blasters (kudos for the exercise).
Click to expand...

Waxn, I'm with you on this one. I've posted similar views before, and gotten ragged about it. I do believe a lot of what DLD has concluded about pornstar size, but I know as well as you that there are natural 9" or 10"+. However, I think we all can agree that it's difficult if not impossible to find any dick that's truly 12" - or even 11 1/2". I posted a while back, about this chick's web site where this married white lady screws the biggest black cocks she could find. 10 3/4" was the largest, and she'd actually measured it. I got blasted, everyone saying stupid stuff about how bad she looked etc., but it's interesting to me to see "real world" accounts. This lady was searching for the "elusive 12 inch dick." I recently downloaded a few John Holmes clips, and I tend to believe with others that at his best he may've been 10 1/2" in length but his girth was great at least 7"+

I was excited to run across an old 70's video posted the other day, called "Mr. Footlong" and there was a preview pic of this skinny white chick holding a ruler on a black guy's dick. I was disappointed to find that the actual footage was obviously not an accurate measurement, you see her stretching this tape out and then they show the dick head almost at the 12" mark. He was standing up, with his dick hanging down. She held one end up around his pubic hair, and stretched out the tape. Freezing the frames here, unless he had 3" or more dick covered by pubic hair there's no way he was 12". Granted, he looked more flacid than erect, but the rest of the video showed him erect and not that large either.

As the ladies can probably attest, girth is much more desirable than length. I saw one video with a guy who couldn't have been more than 5" or so in length, but impressive girth looked kind of like a coke can - and it was obvious she was enjoying it ;-)
 
Originally posted by wesb
Waxn, I'm with you on this one. I've posted similar views before, and gotten ragged about it. I do believe a lot of what DLD has concluded about pornstar size, but I know as well as you that there are natural 9" or 10"+.
Click to expand...

Produce them and I will conceid:)
 
Originally posted by REDZULU2003
I am still stickin to ma guns :p
No offense but none of us are professors or anything....so what we say is our own opinion...hopefully based on fact.

I am convinced that over a long time it can be inherited,
I think you a misreading this and thinking a few 100 years....I am talking MANY 1000's of reguler years exercising.
I think that slowly [VERY] this will somehow effect the genes,,,,I dunno how but IMHO I think it will.

I dont care what you say ;) your just a normal guy not a Biologist or anything like a Proffesor so I'll stick to what I think.
Click to expand...


Friend, I am a graduate student on my way to my Master's. But that doesn't mean anything.... pick up a book on evolution and see for yourself.
 
Originally posted by REDZULU2003
I also reckon that most BIGGER men some of us see in adult entertainment....look bigger than they are as its our mind telling us their MUCH bigger than they are as we aint as large as them.

Plus imagery and video aint the best way of telling size accurate at all.
Even going of a girls hands, head and build etc aint accurate as they all vary.

At the end of the day we must GUESS GUESS GUESS and agree to disagree on this one.

We will only know the REAL size of Mandingo and Lex if they have a ruler rammed into their abs along their shaft......and ya know what??? I reckon they will not be as big as some of us think.

That picture of mandingo......the girl has TINY TINY hands.
I'd say his penis is 8.2/8.5 inches long.
With the girth in the 6 range somewhere.

Still Big but not 12 inches like before.

Another thing with adult entertainment....they want to sell the film.....alas it must look convincing....it must work some of you think its bigger than it is....easy to do....the buisness want this.
Click to expand...

Agree on all points here....except I think Mandingo is a legit 10 - 11.

OTOH, he's claiming anywhere from 14 -16, so obviously that's a fantasy.

Fantasy. It's a virtual guarantee that some degree of fantasy is going into these hyped up adult entertainment measurements.

The adult entertainment industry is selling fantasy. They offer nothing else. Buying adult entertainment won't make you smarter, better looking, or a better person. The only service that adult entertainment offers is fantasy. And that is why we WANT to believe these insane measurements.... because we like to watch and fantasize that it's our own over sized penis in that video.
 
This would be the same even after 1000 of generations

-----

I cant see how any of you can back this up with solid evidence.
Like I cant with my claims...they are just MHO.

I havent seen any solid info' to dismiss my claims.

Developments in Science are going on all the time.....you never know...oneday I may be rpoved right????

I dont really wonna say much more on any of this.

Thanks to all of you who have taken part and had a REAL Adult discussion....thanks ;)
 
Originally posted by doublelongdaddy
Produce them and I will conceid:)
Click to expand...

Well, IMHO it's not a case of "you're right until proven wrong." I could just as easily ask you to produce proof of your claims. While some of your photo analysations are interesting, it is obvious that photos can be manipulated to "prove" a length claim - i.e., using your methods and the same photos I could generate a believable pic "proving" a dick size larger or smaller.

I do concede that many tricks are used in adult entertainment to exaggerate size. However, I have seen some amateur adult entertainment video, where there is only one camera and obviously no special lense etc., in which I've seen dicks at least 10" x 7".

Agreeing to disagree,

wesb
 
First of all i am in no way an expert in this field, most of us aren't. But i do believe that natural huge dicks do exist. I don't know if this can be considered as part of the debate, but there is a genetic condition called "Fragile X Syndrome" which essentially is a form of mental retardation. It displays such symptoms as 'Macro-orchidism' (read: gigantic penis) in post-pubertal males, among many other genetic deformities.

I stumbled across an internet conversation that some random girl had posted of her and some guy who had this 'mutation' which talked about his penis size, and her wanting to see it and talking like a slut basicly. He claimed he was 10.3", at the time he was 17, and a virgin (as he was embarrased by his size). Also this had been measured by his doctor as he had been tracking his size since puberty. Another thing he claimed is he had enormous balls, so big that his orgasms lasted 40-50 seconds. He told a story of how a girl made him cum (his shorts were still on) and he came so much she got freaked out and left him coz she thought he had pissed himself!!

Fragile X Syndrome causes a guys penis to grow huge by way of a genetic defect, they even have a scientific name for it!, so what's to say there aren't cases of Macro-orchidism without the presence of the Fragile X Syndrome?
 
One of Waxn's points is that almost invariably, if someone posts about a large dick encountered in real life, immediately you see the same types of replies - basically implying that we or whoever the dick-sighter is can't judge size and therefore the dick wasn't really that big. Funny how no one EVER suggests that we erred on the short side ;-)

Estimating size from a photograph is one thing, seeing it in person is quite another. At distances of around 20 feet or less, our eyes function in true "stereo" 3D. I can look across the room at a variety of small objects, and I can estimate their size within 1/2" or so accuracy. I'm not especially gifted, in fact I'm near sighted. But because of the hobbies I did growing up, and work I did later, this was a skill which I developed - and most of us have this skill to some degree.

I've never claimed, nor has anyone on this forum claimed AFAIK, to have seen an "abnormally" large cock. I've seen a 9", Waxn and others have seen a 10" - sizes which btw are documented in some of the size studies and commonly accepted as the upper end of the size curve. And FWIW, both Waxn and I saw these on guys at 13 or 14 years of age. Yet, we are told that most likely it wasn't that big because our eyes deceived us, OR if it was REALLY that big then the guy MUST have done Penis Enlargement - through some secret father/son tradition, etc. It's almost as if there is some deep fear that a naturally large dick is somehow better than a Penis Enlargement'd large dick. Or perhaps, by believing that basically ALL large (9"+) dicks are the result of some form of Penis Enlargement or enhancement, this gives you positive reinforcement to achieve your goals.

I do believe in Penis Enlargement. And, I do believe that many or most male adult entertainment actors probably use pumps, weights, Penis Enlargement or whatever they can do to enhance their package. BUT, I also believe that there are guys, admittedly a small percentage, walking around with a 9" or 10" cock that just grew naturally and not the result of any Penis Enlargement or other enhancement. Further, these guys are NOT "Abnormal" or suffering from some rare medical condition, they are just the lucky few at the upper end of the size curve, and as the common expression is they're "blessed."
 
Originally posted by mazdab8r
First of all i am in no way an expert in this field, most of us aren't. But i do believe that natural huge dicks do exist. I don't know if this can be considered as part of the debate, but there is a genetic condition called "Fragile X Syndrome" which essentially is a form of mental retardation. It displays such symptoms as 'Macro-orchidism' (read: gigantic penis) in post-pubertal males, among many other genetic deformities.nce of the Fragile X Syndrome?
Click to expand...

Maz, this is a great addition to the debate. This would also help skew the bell curve of those above the average mark.

Originally posted by wesb
Well, IMHO it's not a case of "you're right until proven wrong." I could just as easily ask you to produce proof of your claims. While some of your photo analysations are interesting, it is obvious that photos can be manipulated to "prove" a length claim - i.e., using your methods and the same photos I could generate a believable pic "proving" a dick size larger or smaller.
Click to expand...

I agree but I did prove my size in real life. When I went to film at JAZ's home in July he too was suspicious and asked me to measure myself in front of him which I did. I also allowed the gentleman from GQ magazine to do the same.

Originally posted by wesb
I do concede that many tricks are used in adult entertainment to exaggerate size. However, I have seen some amateur adult entertainment video, where there is only one camera and obviously no special lense etc., in which I've seen dicks at least 10" x 7".
Click to expand...

I have seen the same thing but we get back to the same debate on how they acquired this. We may never know but we all agree that it has happened through Penis Enlargement, medical related issues or naturally graced. These 3 things are enough to really screw up the actual numbers in the bell curve.

Originally posted by wesb
Agreeing to disagree,
Click to expand...

I love you wesb:)

Originally posted by wesb
One of Waxn's points is that almost invariably, if someone posts about a large dick encountered in real life, immediately you see the same types of replies - basically implying that we or whoever the dick-sighter is can't judge size and therefore the dick wasn't really that big. Funny how no one EVER suggests that we erred on the short side ;-)
Click to expand...

I think it can go both ways. My issue with seeing it in real life is we are still estimating. For all I know the penis Wax or you have seen may be bigger than you think. The point is the only real way to know is by a witnessed measurement.

Originally posted by wesb
I've never claimed, nor has anyone on this forum claimed AFAIK, to have seen an "abnormally" large cock. I've seen a 9", Waxn and others have seen a 10" - sizes which btw are documented in some of the size studies and commonly accepted as the upper end of the size curve. And FWIW, both Waxn and I saw these on guys at 13 or 14 years of age. Yet, we are told that most likely it wasn't that big because our eyes deceived us, OR if it was REALLY that big then the guy MUST have done Penis Enlargement - through some secret father/son tradition, etc. It's almost as if there is some deep fear that a naturally large dick is somehow better than a Penis Enlargement'd large dick. Or perhaps, by believing that basically ALL large (9"+) dicks are the result of some form of Penis Enlargement or enhancement, this gives you positive reinforcement to achieve your goals.
Click to expand...

I am only introducing these what if scenarios to further qualify our combined research.

Originally posted by wesb
I do believe in Penis Enlargement. And, I do believe that many or most male adult entertainment actors probably use pumps, weights, Penis Enlargement or whatever they can do to enhance their package. BUT, I also believe that there are guys, admittedly a small percentage, walking around with a 9" or 10" cock that just grew naturally and not the result of any Penis Enlargement or other enhancement. Further, these guys are NOT "Abnormal" or suffering from some rare medical condition, they are just the lucky few at the upper end of the size curve, and as the common expression is they're "blessed."
Click to expand...

Agreed:)
 
Originally posted by wesb
One of Waxn's points is that almost invariably, if someone posts about a large dick encountered in real life, immediately you see the same types of replies - basically implying that we or whoever the dick-sighter is can't judge size and therefore the dick wasn't really that big. Funny how no one EVER suggests that we erred on the short side ;-)

Estimating size from a photograph is one thing, seeing it in person is quite another. At distances of around 20 feet or less, our eyes function in true "stereo" 3D. I can look across the room at a variety of small objects, and I can estimate their size within 1/2" or so accuracy. I'm not especially gifted, in fact I'm near sighted. But because of the hobbies I did growing up, and work I did later, this was a skill which I developed - and most of us have this skill to some degree.

I've never claimed, nor has anyone on this forum claimed AFAIK, to have seen an "abnormally" large cock. I've seen a 9", Waxn and others have seen a 10" - sizes which btw are documented in some of the size studies and commonly accepted as the upper end of the size curve. And FWIW, both Waxn and I saw these on guys at 13 or 14 years of age. Yet, we are told that most likely it wasn't that big because our eyes deceived us, OR if it was REALLY that big then the guy MUST have done Penis Enlargement - through some secret father/son tradition, etc. It's almost as if there is some deep fear that a naturally large dick is somehow better than a Penis Enlargement'd large dick. Or perhaps, by believing that basically ALL large (9"+) dicks are the result of some form of Penis Enlargement or enhancement, this gives you positive reinforcement to achieve your goals.

I do believe in Penis Enlargement. And, I do believe that many or most male adult entertainment actors probably use pumps, weights, Penis Enlargement or whatever they can do to enhance their package. BUT, I also believe that there are guys, admittedly a small percentage, walking around with a 9" or 10" cock that just grew naturally and not the result of any Penis Enlargement or other enhancement. Further, these guys are NOT "Abnormal" or suffering from some rare medical condition, they are just the lucky few at the upper end of the size curve, and as the common expression is they're "blessed."
Click to expand...
wesb,
I think I can now grasp the magnitude of what an issue this is for some guys. In a way I'm sorry, but also a little perturbed. DLD implies that I'm either wrong or lying when I mention the 9" & 10" kyacks I've seen (when he says "produce them and I'll concede" = "I don't believe you."). I could go on and on with more ancedotal evidence, but what's the point? There are some on this board who refuse to believe that there are huge, natural cocks out there - and they're not as rare as 4-leaf clovers. So be it. And as you astutely pointed out, wesb, it's never suggested that we error on the small side, LOL. And why is it so difficult to believe that there are natural 9 & 10 inchers out there when a 13-INCH PLUS cock has been *officially* scientifically measured - non-bone pressed too, lads. We're talking at least 14" BPenis EnlargementL. There are probably guys writhing out there on the floor, curling into a fetal position just thinking about it. Sorry. Maybe the scientist didn't measure right, or he lied. Maybe the cock was only 7 inches, really.
DLD,
I'm surprised you would be so skeptical and dismissive of even measurements, when you were so badly flamed at Thunder's about your own measurement techniques & size claims. I respect what you've done with Penis Enlargement (no, I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass), but I gotta diverge from your views on this. I think your views on this issue are more than a little tainted by the OCD.
Red,
First you hit us with the 7.5" midshaft girth (which, incredibly, DLD never said a word about, even after you refused to provide a pics with a tape measure), then you insist that acquired traits can be inherited ("after 1,000 years") and posit that your opinion is just as valid as ours since we're not scientists (Okay, it's my opinion that a penis will turn into a vagina after 19 generations, and a vagina will turn into a penis after 22 generations. Fair enough?). But you betray yourself to ridiculous levels when you suggest that Mandingo is smaller than....um....you.
Okay, Red, you're bigger than Mandingo, bigger than a Clydesdale, bigger than every man on earth. Feel better now?
 
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