The hormones you need to know

If you want to grow your penis, you need DHT gel, and maybe IGF1 which is not available. I don't know if these will actually grow your penis, but please read more. I will post links to studies soon, though they are easy to find with google.

To understand why your penis is not growing now, you must look at what is different between puberty and adult hood. I think the answer is which hormone modifying proteins and which hormone receptors are active in which tissues.
I spent a few years studying hair loss and how hormones affect it. I then stubbled on some penis studies. The two are interconnected.

DHT is manufactured in the tissues where it is used. It is not transported in the blood, but rather is quickly broken down in the blood. It is made by 5 alpha reductase types 1 and 2. Type 1 is in nerve cells and oil glands and maybe other tissues. Type 2 is in hair follicles, the penis, the prostate, other places, and maybe even the part of the brain that makes GABA.

As you get older, androgen receptors and 5 alpha reductase in your head hair and body hair become more active. Your head hair and body hair respond oppositely to DHT. DHT is the androgenic signal in most tissues except your muscles, which respond to just testosterone. Only the DHT made in your scalp affects hair loss. The DHT in the prostate is quickly broken down once it enters the blood.

Estrogen is good for scalp hair. Estrogen fluctuations cause reversible sheds. Estrogen strongly slows or reverses penis growth. When you inject with testosterone, some tissues with turn it to DHT, and to estrogen, in different proportions depending on the enzyme activities in those tissues. And the receptors will vary too. Extrogen in the penis often overpowers DHT. That is why testosterone gel would not grow your penis.

Growth hormone might grow your penis. Injecting a little into your penis with a 31g needed (do not use anything bigger) might be more affective. It depends if your penis has the enzyme to convert HGH into IGF1. It is actually IGF1 that does the growing. You can buy IGF1-LR3, but it might now work like IGF1. At least the effects are local since it can't bind to blood proteins. I don't think you can get IGF1 anywhere. Teenagers make up to 12 IU of HGH per day, though 6 IU might be average. Adults are 1-2IU near 25-30.

You have many HGH IGF1 conversion receptors throughout your body.

I wrote twice as much info as is above. I first wrote that, clicked "post", then used the edit button to add more. But I'm so upset that I was logged out before I could click "post" again, that I don't even feel like re-typing it all.

OK, this time I'm typing this in Notepad and pasing so it does not get eaten.

I might be repeating some stuff, but here's some basic info:

Enzymes: they make something into something else. They are pretty specific about what they will grab and modify too.

Types you must know:
5 alpha reductase types 1 and 2. These grab testosterone within the cells and turn it into DHT. DHT, not testosterone, is the androgenic signal in most cells, except muscle and a few others that use testosterone.

HSD3 or something like that: It grabs DHT in the blood and turns it into some useless prohormone, very soon after it leaks out of the cell. Yeah, when they test your DHT levels, they are testing what is in your veins, which is low, but the most DHT is found inside the cells. Hairloss is caused by DHT made in your cells or very close by, not by the small amounts in the blood from the prostate.

Aromatase: This is also inside certain cells. It makes testosterone into estrogen.

Human growth hormone receptor, or something like that: The body does not use human growth hormone to tell it to grow. At least not for most types of growth. It first turns HGH into IGF1. Both HGH and IGF1 are carried on blood proteins until they are used by cells, either by the IGF1 receptor in the cell, or by the cell making its own IGF1 from the HGH in the blood. While HGH can travel in the blood, it is usually converted to IGF1 completely within 20-30 minutes.
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OK, so that was the hormone converters. They exist in your cells, and I believe their activity levels change with age. When you are a kid, your penis can make those hormones it needs to grow. When you are an adult, those turn off a bit and you'd have to put DHT topically on your penis as andractim, and inject some type of IGF1 perhaps.
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Next, there are the receptors for these hormones:

The Androgen receptor: when androgens like testosterone or DHT bind to it, it tells the cell to do stuff. DHT gives a much stronger signal though.

The estrogen receptor: I don't know if it tells the cell to do the opposite of what the androgen receptor tells it to do, or if it is just different. But as far as penis growth goes, it is mostly the opposite. Estrogen binds to this receptor.

The IGF1 receptor: only cells with IGF1 receptors respond to HGH treatment. I think this receptor is very active in your bones when you are growing, and then turns off after the growth plate turns off. I don't know exactly what the growth plate is, but I think it is the part of the bone that has active IGF1 receptors, and high levels of testosterone in the blood tell them to shut down. I doubt testosterone actually is what shuts them down. I think it is first converted to estrogen or DHT and that then tells them to shut down. Either way, as an adult, your intestines, your liver, and your muscles and skin still have IGF1 receptors, but your bones not so much. Your face does too.

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So our problem is that with age, different cells in different parts of our body have different hormone modifying and different hormone receptor activities than they did when we were a kid. Lump all this together and say it is controlled by the Hox gene or whatever. But our challenge is to get more DHT, less estrogen, and more IGF1 into our penis cells, without affecting the rest of our body too much. That is why I suggest topical treatments, or penis injections. And since we dont' know what stuff is real, and don't want to poke our selves too much without knowing if it will work, it would be nice if some scientists would do some studies.

It logged me out that time too, but I just logged back in and re-copy-pasted it!

OK, here are the studies they have done so far:

They give just testosterone to micro-penis kids to find out if they don't have 5 alpha reducase in their penis. If they have 5ar (the enzyme that turns testosterone into DHT), their penis grows even with testosterone topical. If it does not grow, they know the kid is 5ar difficient (type 2, not 1). They then put DHT on his penis and it grows.

If your penis is over 2 inches long, they know you don't have 5ar2 difficiency, since all 5ar2 difficient kids are smaller than that. OR maybe it is not 2 inches. I think they say 3 standard deviations below average, which is still pretty small. Since you are not 5ar2 difficient, they don't even give you DHT, I guess. Sounds pretty dumb though, but I've searched and searched for studies that put DHT on adults, and I could not find any. All I could find is studies that use testosterone, and don't grow the penis.

I read on a body building site or a penis enlargment site that someone did find a study that put DHT on adults, and that it grew the penis and it stayed large. But I don't know if the guy misread the study or if he found the study on a DHT selling site that was lying, or if it was legit. Either way, it gives hope. They guy said he could not find the study again.

I also saw a study that showed that aligators in water with estrogenic compounds had micro penis. They also put testosterone or estrogen or DHT on crocadile penises and found that estrogen inhibited or reversed growth, and also damaged penis cells in test tubes, and that DHT grew the penis. Testosterone had mixed results. At a young age, it grew it. At older age, they found that it converts into estrogen more than DHT, and thus actually inhibits growth, even at very high doses of testosterone.

So taking high doses of testosterone or other aromatizing compounds will halt or reverse your penis growth.

Someone told me they read that DHT is what tells your penis to repair itself. So those of you doing stretches would get better repair if you had DHT added topically, but would just tear yourself down if you have too much estrogen. Overweight guys tend to have more estrogen than muscular and fit guys.

It is well known that the most important time to have DHT is in the womb. If you mom takes propecia at any dose while you are in the womb, that guarenties you will have micropenis. I guess DHT in the womb tells your cells to make it or something. All your genes are activated or de-activated by the womb environment. You may have read in men's health that testosterone is what does this. But the testosterone actually must be converted to DHT to do the job.

There has been more than one study done, with results ranging from 0.5 - 2cm in 2-4 months. They also listed the dose, which I forgot. It is easy to find the studies if you google DHT penis or DHT phallus or andractim.

Finally, I'm going to tell you about the products out there I hope they study, and which not to use.


Proviron and Masteron are like DHT, but are modified so they don't break down fast in the blood. Do not use these! Body builders use them because they think if DHT is stronger than testosterone, maybe it will make their muscles grow bigger. But when they injected with DHT years ago when it was on the market, it just bonded to the enzyme in their blood that breaks it down, HSD3 or something like that. They also don't like sticking themselves every day. So someone modified DHT to not bind to that enzyme, so it could stay in the blood for days and reach every muscle cell. Judging by hairloss effects, it seems it still binds to the androgen receptor well even in it's modified form. You might be tempted to use this for your penis because it is easier to get than DHT. Don't do it. It will go systemic and affect the hormone receptors of every cell in your body. Your body makes DHT in the right cells locally for a reason, so it does not mess up the other cells. We need some scientists to test Andractim on adult penises, or mix DHT into the IGF1 for injection into the penis, or do both. Proviron and Masteron are illegal too. They can cause head hair loss and increase body hair.

IGF1: no longer on the market. Been off it for decades. If it were available, it would be much better to inject it instead of HGH into your penis. That is assuming of course that there are no side effects. Let the experts do trials first though.

HGH: still off the market and illegal. If you inject HGH into your belly, it might affect the rest of your body more than your penis, if your penis HGH conversion enzymes are not as active as those in your liver or intestines or muscles. If you inject it into your penis, you increase your chances of it working, but I don't know how the capiliaries and spongy tissue down there work: maybe it would flow through the whole penis and grow it all, or maybe it would go through a capilary at the site of injection, and back down a vein to the heart and not help the rest of the penis. Or maybe your penis would not be able to convert it to IGF1 an it would just flow through and affect the rest of your body instead.

IGF1-LR3: This is on the market and is illegal. The manufacturer says it can damage your cells. They use it in test tube studies because it is IGF1 that has been modified so it won't bond to blood proteins. This way, researchers can put it in the test tube and see just what the IGF1 dose does right then. Body builders use it illegally for locally building certain muscles. Some say that the modification makes it no longer work like IGF1, and makes it useless. Who knows what effect it would have on a penis if injected there.

Estrogen receptor blockers like 6-oxo and others: these all go systemic, which you don't want unless you have gyno. They can cause hair loss. All of them, as I read on PubMed one at a time, must first be converted to a different form by the liver before they can do their job, which means a topical would not have a local effect. However, I did not find any such study for 6-oxo, so maybe it works right at the local spot. I searched long and hard for positive proof, and don't remember if I found one stating it does work immediately locally. Making it into a topical and putting it on your penis might help, but the dose is unknown, and you would get some systemic effects, which may be mild considering the oral effects can be mild at lower doses. 6-oxo is OTC. Do not hold me responsible for any decisions you make based on what I think I read somewhere. Make sure you go find evidence to back it elsewhere and base your decision on that, not this.

Topical testosterone: This gets converted to estrogen, as many body builders know. Estrogen is anabolic for muscle, but also grows breasts. Muscles grow from testosterone, and don't need DHT to grow, so testosterone works for them. Penises need DHT to grow, and estrogen reverses or inhibits their growth. So testosterone topical will hurt your penis growth, not help it.

Blood dialating pills and topicals: dialating the penis blood vessels might make your erection bigger, but might not make the cells actually multiply to get perminent safe gains.

Stretching, pumps, etc: These might tell your penis to build itself, but you would probably need IGF1 and DHT down there to help. And less is more. Just like building muscle, if you workout too much, you just tear yourself down. That is why bodybuilders take days off. And we don't know how much or how often is optimal for penis growth. Just make sure you don't injure your very precious orgain. It is better to start very slow and light and gradually increase over many months. I personally don't think it helps much, though I do use a low setting on a penis pump to non-painfully stretch my penis a bit 3 times per week.

There was a study on penis pump growth: they took maybe 200 men, and had them pump their penis to 10mmHg for 10 minutes, 3x per week, for 6 months. AT the end of 6 months, the average increase was 3mm, and do to the variations and excitement levels and such, they said the 3mm could be a measurement error. Doctors say higher pressure differences can damage your penis so you can'g get it up at all. I've found I start to feel pain around 15mmHg. Some people say 3mmHg for 1 hour would be better. I do 9-12mm Hg for 20-30 minutes, 3x per week. I'm not seeing growth. If you go this route, you will need $100 to get a good pump with a good pressure gauge. Do not inflate fast or slow. Slowly squeeze, and don't squeeze again until you stop feeling a change in the pressure inside your penis, and then slowly release the pressure over at least a minute. And I'm probably leaving out lots of important details, so make sure you visit a medical site or talk to a doctor or something about penis pumps to get the full set of directions, since you can easily destroy your penis in seconds if you do it wrong. The pump make you push blood hard into penis, stretching it to its limit like a balloon. Some of the nerves in there are like cords, and might not be long enough to go as far as the penis can go, and could rip from being pulled. Do not test your limits. Get educated before trying this. And realize that it probably won't do anything for you, at least by itself.

PC exercises: if you strengthen your PC muscles, you can force blood into your penis with your own blood pressure and penis muscles and blow it up like a balloon without a pump. It is called ballooning. You can read on here. I don't know how big or safely you can go, but you can probably at least get a temporary 1/2 gain by working for it. PC muscles take time to grow, but also let you delay early ejeculation so you can last long enough for her. So worth trying anyway.

And if anyone is thinking of sticking their penis with a syringe for any reason (I hope you don't if you are not fully educated and sure of your sources from a doctor), do not use any syringe bigger than 31 gauge. 30 is bigger. 32 is smaller. 31 are called insulin syringes. 30 is possible but can really really hurt. 31 hurts too but is more doable. Have your doctor give you 32 if possible. That goes for most types of things, unless you are getting blood drawn and speed is an issue.

Really though, if you don't know what something is, do you really want to put it in your penis with an injection? And again, do not destroy your penis with a pump. It is easy to do. Once you feel the pain, it is probably too late. And if you feel it and release the pressure all at once, you do more damage. Don't mess with it unless you are sure you know what you are doing. You only have one penis, but you have lots of time to research stuff. Reading is free.

Finally:

Penis surgery.

Do not get fat injections, or special cell grafting, etc. The fat does not feel hard. The special cells don't get hard or flacid like a normal penis. It won't feel or look right. Yeah, maybe it will make her feel a bit better than your tiny one. But have some self respect and skip it. And the complications which I'm sure will occure. Most people won't admit they had surgery even to have a law suit, so you won't know how bad the docs are. In this wonderful country, any doctor who went through med school may do any cosmetic produre even if it is not up to standards. Many hair transplant surgeans still do scalp flaps and old fashiond huge plugs that look like doll hairs, just because it is easier than doing micro grafts of one or two hairs.



However:

There is penis surgeon in Serbia who did a study at one of the University of California campuses on 300 men with no bad side effects. I don't know his name or contact info. Good luck finding it. But he uses biodegradable scaffolding and cuts right behind the head of the penis, slices in like a cylinder, and slides the cylinder shaped scaffolding down your shaft under the skin. The scaffolding makes your penis cells start growing out, and the scaffolding breaks down in weeks. It increase shaft girth by 30% on average, with actual penis tissue that erects or gets flacid like normal. The only problem is it makes the penis look like a fat pencil instead of mushroom, since it does not make the head bigger and does not make it longer. It costs about $10,000. I can't find the site again and did not memorize the address.

To read more about scaffolding, read here.
http://www.sciencecentric.com/news/article.php?q=08080104
This is not the penis people though. If you find the site, post it here.

http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/06/possible-asian-small-penis-gene.php

That is not one of the studies I found. I'm about to go get breakfast. But that was on the first page of a "DHT penis" google search, underneath 10 forums that say you can't grow the penis. I found like 10 different studies out there, many repeated on different sites, just none that actually tested adults with DHT topically.

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Possible Asian "small penis" gene identified in Japanese sample posted by Darth Quixote @ 6/29/2006 09:27:00 AM


Jason Malloy has alerted us to an interesting 2003 paper by Sazaki et al. 81 Japanese patients with penis sizes 2 SD below Japanese age norms were genotyped at SRD5A2, which encodes an enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. Deficient activity of this enzyme results in "various degrees of male pseudohermaphroditism." Three cases showed unusual mutations. One of these, a missense mutation severely reducing enzyme activity, was found in heterozygous condition in 2 of the 100 controls. (One of the special cases was homozygous for the mutation; the other two were heterozyous for the mutation and for additional mutations of the same gene. The three cases also failed to respond to testosterone enanthate treatment for penile lengthening, while responding positively to 5-alpha-DHT so that their penis lengths ended up at "nearly the average of age-matched Japanese controls.") Previous studies have found this mutation homozygous in two Vietnamese brothers with extremely small penises and heterozygous in 5 Chinese males after examination of an ethnically diverse group of 543 males. In the words of the authors, "[t]hese findings imply that R227Q [the missense mutation] may be relatively frequent in Asian populations."

It is perhaps worth pointing out that testosterone levels show a complex and as-yet poorly understood relationship to spatial ability (Pinker, 2002, ch. 18; see also the note here).

The paper is available for free here.
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2SD means it was the smallest 3% of the population. They tested their DNA and found the two of them had two of the same (homo) bad genes and one of them had had just one bad gene and a good gene (hetero). The rest of them must have had some other genes not yet identified.
They gave them a form testosterone that is slowly released in the blood. It did not work becuase their 5 alpha reductase type 2 was not working propperly. So they give them DHT and it grew their penises to normal size.

I'll try and post more studies later for those who don't want to google search. It would take maybe 2 hours to find all 10 independent studies. There are probably more out there I have not found, hidden in books. I'd rather someone else post them for me though. I'm just passing on what I found and would rather not sit in front of the computer.

That's a lot of info to sift through. My head now hurts. The thing about injecting something into your body, is you can't be entirely sure what your body will do with it. That's why people have allergic reactions. Certain meds work for some and not others. It's just hard to say. Our bodies are similar in makeup but not the same and every enzyme or substance your body creates naturally has multiple functions.

Since the human body makes HGH, it is not allergic to HGH. It might be allergic to any small bits of bacteria left over from the bacteria that made the HGH though. The generic stuff is more likely to be less pure. Definitely something to think about though with any injections.

Sorry your head hurts. All that info took me forever to find. For me it would be a gold mine. I just wish I could find a few more studies to answer some questions, but it seems they don't exist. Though researchers would have to be smart enough to do the extra tests.

Excellent stuff so far HairHormoneExpe. A few contradictions within statements...not saying I could better

Fascinating stuff endocrinology is eh?

Increase testosterone through dietary and lifestyle factors. Elimate conversion of testosterone to estrogen through dietary and lifestyle. Maximize and balance neurotransmitters such as dopamine, seratonin, acetylcholine and GABA. Maximize and balance prostaglandins and eicosanoids which regulate and control vasodilation and constrictions as well as an infinite number of other crucial factors. Very important is too keep cortisol levels low and prolactin levels low and adrenalin. Stress hormones and some of the catecholamines can be very detrimental towards encouraging penis engorgement and subsequent growth.

Keep studying and keep posting.

Since I'm trying to build muscle, I'm already watching my cortisol levels. GABA helps make growth hormone. But all this stuff you say is not enough to grow your penis, at least not any time soon.

I'm taking propecia, so there is absolutely no way I can make enough DHT down there on my own. I have to use DHT gel locally. I just hope it penetrates deep enough.

I found an eBook a while back by a doctor Kevin Pezzi MD. He claims to have increased the size of his penis over the course of three weeks using a combination of DHT and Yohimbe. Supposedly the DHT encouraged the cell reproduction/penile growth while the Yohimbe had the effect of giving him really hard erections and all-day-semi erections. High internal pressure + cellular reproduction = growth in size.

The thing is that the guy has a bit of a reputation as a quack. In his book which I bought he says he increased his dick size by 'at least 50% erect volume.' The thing is I don't think he knows much about Penis Enlargement or how to measure a penis. For a doctor his summation of his self-guinea pig study was weak to say the least. He gave no start length or circumference, and no end length or circumference. He says he stopped using DHT because it increased his rate of hair loss. Now, I find this part annoying because he doesn't say in his book how he administered the DHT to himself. I'm left to wonder if he was injecting (which seems stupid if it breaks down in the blood stream) or using topical gel on the penis. I would imagine that the topical gel would have a tough time reaching the scalp, unless DHT travels in the lymph. Otherwise I would think that topical gel would have an extremely local effect.

To give him the benefit of the doubt, I only got The Science of Sex eBook. He has another called Advanced Enlargement which I haven't bought because it's $50 USD for an EBOOK. I'm still considering buying it since I can actually afford it now. Still, $50... wtf.

Here's his homepage: http://www.sexualtips.net/

And the books: http://www.pezzi.org/order.php

I tried some Yohimbe with minimal effect. I wonder if the combination with DHT would make it work better. Some men should avoid yohimbe like the plague, it can produce side effects like high blood pressure and racing heart rate.

I've been considering getting some Andractim for a long time, though earlier when I found the study I was unemployed and couldn't afford it. If anyone here knows a legit supplier of Andractim I'd like to hear it.

The thing is that would rather figure out what the DHT precursors are, and find some foods or supplements so my body can produce it's own DHT. Found anything to this extent HairHormone?

If you read what I wrote above, you would know that testosterone is the only DHT precurser. It is turned into DHT in your penis naturally, but not nearly enough after a certain age. 5 alpha reductase type II in that area shuts down a lot after a certain age. You will not find any dietary stuff that works nearly as good as prescription topicals.

You do not want to take anything that increases DHT production unless you can localize it to the penis. I know of no such method.

Andractim gel is the only DHT on the market. There is no injectable DHT since at least 15 years. Also stated in my long post.

Erections might help with growth, but a penis pump does this too. Viagra is much more local than any other pill you can get. But it costs a lot. I thought of getting viagra. Price turned me away.

Topical DHT is not 100% local. It does break down in the blood, but not 100% right away. It can get a little more DHT into your hair. But the DHT made in your follicles is the main thing responsible for hair loss. You might get a few extra pimples while using andractim, but most of it should go to the penis.

That doctor could have put topical spiro on his head until he was done, instead of quiting so soon.

Yeah, DHT is a love/hate thing.

If I wasn't so prone to MPB, I would love it.

Muscle and penis likes DHT...head hair does not

So I bought Pezzi's Advanced Enlargement book. He's painfully long winded and roundabout in his discussion, the guy can't just out and SAY it. I'll attempt to summarize a few of his findings.

DHT is useful only to the extent that your receptors are sensitive/present. Adding more DHT to a grown man's insensitive receptors is like pouring more water into a full sink. The water will still drain at the same rate, you'll just spill a bunch over the edge.

A way to resensitize DHT receptors: Propecia and Rogaine contain finasteride, which supresses DHT. A DHT drought in the body can create more sensitive receptors. So taking Propecia for 6 months and then going off it will create a period of time where your body is more sensitive to DHT. During this post-DHT drought period is when you are supposed to start using DHT gel, when your receptors are hyper sensitized. I sure as hell don't need or want to go on Propecia, DHT gel is about $200 a squeeze tube. Maybe if I'm balding and well financed I'll try this method.

He also talks about heat, and how tissue responds more amicably to tension when heated. He cites a discussion with one of his readers who as a routine heated his penis for a full 1/2 hour, then did basic stretches. This guy reported a 12mm gain in both length and girth(!), but stopped gaining after about 2 weeks. Noobie gains, but this makes me wonder about warm-ups. The usual warm up is about 5-10 minutes.While it has been largely dismissed by the Penis Enlargement community as an injury prevention tactic, it may be worth looking at it as an actual gaining tool. I think I'll try an extra-long warm up routine. while if this info is applicable to my physiology it may break me from my 6 month plateau.

And HairHormone, I did read your post. Sorry if I didn't read it thoroughly enough for you. Also use the "Remember Me" checkbox when you login and you won't be logged out when you make long posts

Looks interesting.

Yeah, I was taking duta for about 2 years and then said fuck it and came off and hair started flying everywhere.

Talk about a DHT rebound...eek.

DHT is the shit though. I wish I didn't have to kill it. Ignoring the possibility it has in increasing the penis, it is very very useful.

Hell, proviron which is basically synthetic DHT, is great for treating a lot of forms of sexual dysfunction.

Muscles don't care about DHT. You can't get DHT into your muscle because an enzyme in them breaks it down so fast. Most tissues must make DHT to get an androgenic signal, but not muscle, which just needs testosterone.

DHT is good for the penis, bad for hair and acne. Unknown needs/effects on other body tissues.

But if you take oral spiro or flutamine or saw palmetto, those can hurt your muscles because they shut down the androgen receptors, which is what testosterone binds to.

My gamble with topical DHT is that its effect will mostly be local. Propecia, on the other hand, should really hurt my penis growth. But I can't stop using propecia. I'm already NW4.

I'm prone to androgenic alopecia as well, but the Vin Diesel look works for me. I'm not 100% on the accepted theories of DHT binding to select follicles on the head and causing hair loss while encouraging hair growth in other areas. I believe the hairloss scenario is more involved...but that is an other area of discussion.

What do you guys think of Novedex XT from Gaspari. It is an aromitase inhibitor that studies have claimed to cause up to a 700% increase in DHT within a few weeks. I have tried the stuff a couple of times and still have a bottle in the cuboard. I can't say I ever noticed any significant physiological effects. I would think that a 700% increase in DHT would throw the balance of all hormones out of whack considering the mechanisms of feedback loops.