There's a poster on Thunders (ticktickticker) who says absorption into the bloodstream would happen quickly, and this would be useless. Perhaps an erection could help prevent this. He's a doctor, obviously well informed, and very supportive of the use of drugs for Penis Enlargement. Maybe subcutaneous injections would be the solution. I'm going to PM him later concerning this.Cartman54 said:
PGE-1 Injection Progress Thread
- Thread starter spinner2
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- chem pe dysfunction effective elongation erect erectile erectile dysfunction erection erections exercise exercises flaccid foreskin gain gains girth gains glans growth hanging impotence larger length gains lidocaine massive pain painful penis peyronies phallosan priapism progress research results routine sensitivity sex short shrinkage skin stretch stretched stretcher stretching supplement support veins wide
Hey spin,
Good to see you experimenting more. I know you were looking forward to it for a while and I'm glad you've found the right conditions to do it. I'm happy to continue learning about chem pe and especially pleased with learning from you since I so far find you to be an effective researcher, learner, applier of knowledge and communicator. Thanks for the thread.
Interesting to see from you, considering the last time we "butt heads" a bit about my advice to do manual Penis Enlargement for at least about 3-6 months before chemical Penis Enlargement. But, I'm really not suggesting we get into the conversation again or I would have continued the last. I will say that I do think there are enough techniques for collagen breakdown for any Tunica thickening from manual Penis Enlargement to not be much of an issue, and I am not sure of the evidence of Tunica thickening from every manual Penis Enlargement exercise or from any specific exercises if only limited to girth exercises and not length ones etc.
I was very happy to get into that discussion with you though, in the end, because immediately thereafter I dug into chem Penis Enlargement info a lot more and I was pleased with what I found.
Back when I did the bulk of my chem pe research to date, I took some notes because I knew I would not absorb everything. In my notes I have a mention of Verapamil as topical collagen breakdown which I found in research on Potaba in Peyronie's, where Verapamil is a topical alternative to Potaba.
I think Verapamil was originally used with injection, and Prescription Dispensing Laboratories (PDL - Prescription Dispensing Laboratories) created a Cream version.
Here's a site: Topical Verapamil . Also google verapamil, topcial verapamil cream etc.
Reviews I have read stated it is very effective but very expensive.
My notes also have All About Peyronies Disease, Alternative Medical Treatment as a good source of info for collagen breakdown.
Also, remember, many Peyronie's patients take 12g of Potaba per day for a year, despite possible effects to ligs, tendons in the whole body. However, maybe the best regimen, money aside, would be 4g oral Potaba and very liberal application of Verapamil Cream, possibly with DMSO.
I had also found an auto injector that seemed much better quality than the links sikdogg provided, and may or may not help you with some of your injection challenges, but I can't seem to find the link at the moment.
In regards to comments on pain, I think the "no pain, no gain" thing is likely very true with chem Penis Enlargement. I recall painful erections in puberty and it seems common sense that there will be "growth pains" so I would actually be discouraged if there wasn't any pain/aches.
For stretching, it seems to me that only a 5-10 minute stretch/hang would be best before erection for prep (unless more can be done without causing injecting problems) and, despite reports of pain, a 20-60 minute stretch/hang after erection would be best for gains because the Tunica would be in a state with the most collagen breakdown and the most expansion for the day already, providing less resistance for stretching AND giving reason to want to not only improve but sustain that stretched state as much as possible to increase chances of gains.
Good luck with everything.
Good to see you experimenting more. I know you were looking forward to it for a while and I'm glad you've found the right conditions to do it. I'm happy to continue learning about chem pe and especially pleased with learning from you since I so far find you to be an effective researcher, learner, applier of knowledge and communicator. Thanks for the thread.
spinner2 said:
Interesting to see from you, considering the last time we "butt heads" a bit about my advice to do manual Penis Enlargement for at least about 3-6 months before chemical Penis Enlargement. But, I'm really not suggesting we get into the conversation again or I would have continued the last. I will say that I do think there are enough techniques for collagen breakdown for any Tunica thickening from manual Penis Enlargement to not be much of an issue, and I am not sure of the evidence of Tunica thickening from every manual Penis Enlargement exercise or from any specific exercises if only limited to girth exercises and not length ones etc.
I was very happy to get into that discussion with you though, in the end, because immediately thereafter I dug into chem Penis Enlargement info a lot more and I was pleased with what I found.
spinner2 said:
Back when I did the bulk of my chem pe research to date, I took some notes because I knew I would not absorb everything. In my notes I have a mention of Verapamil as topical collagen breakdown which I found in research on Potaba in Peyronie's, where Verapamil is a topical alternative to Potaba.
I think Verapamil was originally used with injection, and Prescription Dispensing Laboratories (PDL - Prescription Dispensing Laboratories) created a Cream version.
Here's a site: Topical Verapamil . Also google verapamil, topcial verapamil cream etc.
Reviews I have read stated it is very effective but very expensive.
My notes also have All About Peyronies Disease, Alternative Medical Treatment as a good source of info for collagen breakdown.
Also, remember, many Peyronie's patients take 12g of Potaba per day for a year, despite possible effects to ligs, tendons in the whole body. However, maybe the best regimen, money aside, would be 4g oral Potaba and very liberal application of Verapamil Cream, possibly with DMSO.
I had also found an auto injector that seemed much better quality than the links sikdogg provided, and may or may not help you with some of your injection challenges, but I can't seem to find the link at the moment.
In regards to comments on pain, I think the "no pain, no gain" thing is likely very true with chem Penis Enlargement. I recall painful erections in puberty and it seems common sense that there will be "growth pains" so I would actually be discouraged if there wasn't any pain/aches.
For stretching, it seems to me that only a 5-10 minute stretch/hang would be best before erection for prep (unless more can be done without causing injecting problems) and, despite reports of pain, a 20-60 minute stretch/hang after erection would be best for gains because the Tunica would be in a state with the most collagen breakdown and the most expansion for the day already, providing less resistance for stretching AND giving reason to want to not only improve but sustain that stretched state as much as possible to increase chances of gains.
Good luck with everything.
spinner2 said:
Good on all points in my opinion. Please keep us up to date on your home made verapamil cream.
spinner2 said:
Fascinatingly strange. My condolences. I have never heard of this before for any injection reason nor for any chem pe reasons. I do wonder if it has to do with your injector AND OR your injection location AND OR your injection technique which may or may not be linked to the injector.
I think this is the auto injector that I previously found: Kineret® - SimpleJect® Auto-Injector .
Please describe, maybe again, in as much detail as possible, your observations for what you mean by how the injection is not working and yet how simultaneously you are drawing blood.
If you do decide to apply DHT, I would suggest a twice weekly application instead of everyday. 3-5 grams of Andractim (75-125mg DHT) twice weekly should be a good dose. Keeping the transdermal applications spaced out allows the pores to open up again. Everyday application will greatly reduce how much can pass through.
Also, you may want to get in touch with somebody who is having this procedure done professionally and have them show you in person how to inject. There might be a critical piece of information you are neglecting.
Also, you may want to get in touch with somebody who is having this procedure done professionally and have them show you in person how to inject. There might be a critical piece of information you are neglecting.
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The simpleJect is very similar to the Autoject2 that i posted a link to on page 2 of this thread. I like the Autoject2 better because it was designed to be used with all sorts of syringes unlike the SimpleJect which is designed for pre-filled glass syringes.PenilePersist said:
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Sub-q injections would work better but the problem is that when you inject sub-q, you are only applying the drug at the local injection site. If you inject DHT sub-q, it is not going to be applied uniformly around both the CC like applying a transderm would. In order for sub-q shots to work, you would have to do several shots all around the penile shaft.spinner2 said:
It's all a learning curve for me too.
I find that if I stretch first and then inject, I get a much weaker response.
The Andractim comes with a prostate testing kit.
2 x 80g tubes gives you 42 weeks supply if you inject 3 times a week, so not expensive.
I always get a semi before injection, this avoids hitting the septum.
The needle sticks out 11mm from the auto injector.
I use an alcohol swab to apply pressure for a few minutes after injection, there is always a small amount of blood at the site sometimes a small bruise.
I inject about 1/4" lower every time and alternate left and right side.
Avoiding veins I suppose I have about 10 or 12 different injection sites.
Whether this injecting will lead to scarring or Peyronies I don't know, hope not.
I find that if I stretch first and then inject, I get a much weaker response.
The Andractim comes with a prostate testing kit.
2 x 80g tubes gives you 42 weeks supply if you inject 3 times a week, so not expensive.
I always get a semi before injection, this avoids hitting the septum.
The needle sticks out 11mm from the auto injector.
I use an alcohol swab to apply pressure for a few minutes after injection, there is always a small amount of blood at the site sometimes a small bruise.
I inject about 1/4" lower every time and alternate left and right side.
Avoiding veins I suppose I have about 10 or 12 different injection sites.
Whether this injecting will lead to scarring or Peyronies I don't know, hope not.
I've got multiple injection sites. I'm also using DMSO and POTABA, so hopefully fibrosis isn't an issue. I've had no luck on verapamil so far.
Thought it over and I'm not super concerned about injecting the septum right now. I figure it'll be totally useless for girth, but I'm more concerned about length. I think PGE-1 injections in the septum would be better for length than CC injections. Not that I plan on injecting the septum on purpose, because it hurts waaay more than usual injections.
Took a break today for homework. Stretching now, and injecting again tomorrow.
Thought it over and I'm not super concerned about injecting the septum right now. I figure it'll be totally useless for girth, but I'm more concerned about length. I think PGE-1 injections in the septum would be better for length than CC injections. Not that I plan on injecting the septum on purpose, because it hurts waaay more than usual injections.
Took a break today for homework. Stretching now, and injecting again tomorrow.
I don't think fibrosis will be an issue... i was talking to a guy from another board that had been injecting PGE1 for years as treatment for his ED and he hasn't experienced any fibrosis.
You don't want to shoot into the septum as the septum is the junction between the two CC chambers... it is the point where the tunica of both chambers touch. Injecting into it would be a waste...
You don't want to shoot into the septum as the septum is the junction between the two CC chambers... it is the point where the tunica of both chambers touch. Injecting into it would be a waste...
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sikdogg said:
That might be true, but did they sustain the erection for 3-5 hours and/or include stretching exercises?
dogsdoodahs said:
No, they used the Trimix solely for erectile dysfunction and were not doing any stretching or jelqing.
One of the guys was getting erections for about 3 hours though.
One of the guys was getting erections for about 3 hours though.
goldmember said:
I injected 5mcg a few days ago and had a response for only 1hr 45 minutes. It might have been stress, from girl problems, but hopefully I don't have to adjust the dosage again. It's way too soon for the effectiveness to change, so I doubt that was it (pge-1 has been refrigerated since I began injections). I injected 6.25 mcg 45 minutes ago, so I'll see how I respond.
I saw that it's been nearly a month of this, so I pulled out the ruler a minute ago and did a bpfsl check. It looks like I've put on a little length. My girth has increased noticeably since I started, which is pretty clear during sex. I'm also coming back from a decon break, so it's too early to make any conclusions. I'll see whether I hit a 1" bpfsl gain within a few months.
Spinner,
when the plunger doesn't go down, it means your not in the spongy tissue. if you force it down you'll feel a sharp pain. The reason being the fluid is trying to force the space around it where as in the spongy tissue, there's lots of space for the fluid to bounce around.
Practicing manual Penis Enlargement broadens the Suspensory ligament running a top the penis (the cord some refer to as the septum) and hence makes it more difficult to inject. if you inject into the lig/septum you wont get into the CC chambers. So if there's resistance, simpley withdraw and apply elsewhere.
I also find that if you compress, with your hand, the opposite chamber, a little blood is forced into the side your injecting, making it easier.
Also, I read a mention of injecting into the CS. The CS is a much lower pressure system than are the CC and the engorgement of the CS isn't done via the veno-occlusive system, but rather through the contractions of the PC/BC muscles. So injecting into the CS has next to no effect.
Initially I had a priapisim when I injected 7.5 units, but now for some reason I can inject around 12 units without a priapism. I dont even get 100% erect. around 70%. Although I manually 'edge'.
I have been in the 'titrating' stage for the past 2 months almost and have done 2 or at most 3 injections per week.
when the plunger doesn't go down, it means your not in the spongy tissue. if you force it down you'll feel a sharp pain. The reason being the fluid is trying to force the space around it where as in the spongy tissue, there's lots of space for the fluid to bounce around.
Practicing manual Penis Enlargement broadens the Suspensory ligament running a top the penis (the cord some refer to as the septum) and hence makes it more difficult to inject. if you inject into the lig/septum you wont get into the CC chambers. So if there's resistance, simpley withdraw and apply elsewhere.
I also find that if you compress, with your hand, the opposite chamber, a little blood is forced into the side your injecting, making it easier.
Also, I read a mention of injecting into the CS. The CS is a much lower pressure system than are the CC and the engorgement of the CS isn't done via the veno-occlusive system, but rather through the contractions of the PC/BC muscles. So injecting into the CS has next to no effect.
Initially I had a priapisim when I injected 7.5 units, but now for some reason I can inject around 12 units without a priapism. I dont even get 100% erect. around 70%. Although I manually 'edge'.
I have been in the 'titrating' stage for the past 2 months almost and have done 2 or at most 3 injections per week.
i used to think so as well. But I was told not to inject any higher than 2 O'clock because i'd be injecting into the ligament ?
? ? and that this.. 'ligament'.. runs on the top side of the penis until just below the glans.
so I assumed that this 'ligament' is the one and only suspensory ligament.
? ? and that this.. 'ligament'.. runs on the top side of the penis until just below the glans. so I assumed that this 'ligament' is the one and only suspensory ligament.
Yes, I've figured out that the proper injection technique is between 9 and 10 o clock. Any lower and I hit the CS, any higher and I hit something bad, whatever it is. I've also been on only 2-3 injections per week, while I'm figuring out the details. I usually have only a moderate 70% response from the drug, unless I edge, but I'm not too concerned about that. From the patent literature that seemed like a 100% erection wasn't necessary for gains.
I never understood why the suspensory ligament is called a ligament and not a tendon because a ligament is supposed to be a connective tissue that connects bone to bone while a tendon is a connective tissue that connects bone to muscle. That said, having a ligament (or tendon) running along the top of the penis doesn't make much sense... The cord that you feel running along the top of the shaft is the septum.Vaseline_Knight said:i used to think so as well. But I was told not to inject any higher than 2 O'clock because i'd be injecting into the ligament ?
so I assumed that this 'ligament' is the one and only suspensory ligament.
sikdogg said:
ya i agree.. but then again, maybe the penis is considered a bone.:blush: rofl
Do you have enough control over your erection duration to "over inject" but only slightly and then make the erection subside when the times up?... that said I'll bet its your diet that causes alot of the fluctuation in duration length.
Maybe supplementing with a multi-vitamin and/or l-arginine would help with the repeatability of your injection?... I'm just guessing!
Maybe supplementing with a multi-vitamin and/or l-arginine would help with the repeatability of your injection?... I'm just guessing!
Is there any possibility that the PGE-1 solution isn't stable, and is somehow decreasing in strength? Based on my research, it should be stable for at least 6 months, but my sensitivity to injections has been decreasing significantly lately. Maybe I should reconstitute new powder once monthly for injections.
spinner2 said:
spinner
the first time I injected 7 mcg, I suffered a priapism that required a 'special injection' by my doctor to subside. Nothing seemed to bring it down, I did around 180 squats (I know, my legs were gone!), and I took Sudafed, and it did nothing. So the injection was the last option, IC, and it hurt like HELL.
7.5 mcg seemed to produce a good 2 hour erection, at 100% for a while, and then all of a sudden the response dropped to 50%. So I upped it to 9 mcg, still 50-70%. Right now I'm injecting anywhere around 10-11 mcg, and edge manually. I did 13 mcg and got 100% response for 3 hours (which scared me, but it did go down on its own).
So I'm guessing, the body builds an immunity to this.
I'm not so sure. I've read that PGE-1 is stable for 3 months at pH 7 when stored in a refrigerator. Stability increases as pH decreases from 7: reaching the maximum stability at pH of 3. I stored the solution in bacteriostatic water which has pH of 5.7, so the solution should be stable for over 3 months. I reconstituted exactly 5 weeks ago, and have stored it in a refrigerator since.sikdogg said:
Have you switched solutions yet VK? I know Dr. Adams gives out 2 months supplies at once, so if your reaction is the same after switching solution we could easily verify this.
Caverjct, the most common form of PGE1 sold for ED automatically reconstitutes the powder just before it is used and is supposed to be used within a 24 hour period of time once reconstituted. They also only sell single-use vials and not the more cost effective multi-use vials. Why is it that do you think??
One way to test both of our theories is to mix a new batch and see if your response improves. If it doesn't then you are most likely correct...
One way to test both of our theories is to mix a new batch and see if your response improves. If it doesn't then you are most likely correct...
sikdogg said:
I agree with sikdogg this needs to be cleared up and this would be a conclusive way of doing that.
Also just wanted to say thanks to all the guys doing this as you are pioneering this for the rest of us and it looks like this could be the breakthrough we have all been looking for.
Does this effect your ability to get an erection normally and how hard do you get when you do get one?
spinner2 said:
My response is different every time I inject.
Today I thought it was going to be shit because I was only plump for the first 45 minutes then it got really hard for 3 1/2 hours and I am still plump, full girth but no hardness and it is 7 hours after injecting. Strange.
Hi guys, a topical form of Alprostadil, the trade name for PGE, is available--it is being developed for females actually--to apply before sex--but it is the same principle--much more convenient than injection or suppository (urethra). Trouble is, I can't find a source--seems to be more widely used in Europe.
You can read the press release for the company developing ALISTA here:
Vivus - Press Releases
I have been googling but can't find anywhere to buy it yet. This topical delivery system has been around a while---have seen it referenced as far back as 2004. See if you guys have better luck finding some.
You can read the press release for the company developing ALISTA here:
Vivus - Press Releases
I have been googling but can't find anywhere to buy it yet. This topical delivery system has been around a while---have seen it referenced as far back as 2004. See if you guys have better luck finding some.
I don't think this will work for men the same way it works on women... let me explain. The press release alludes to the fact that it's use requires direct and local application of the agent. For women, this makes sense because the surrounding tissues of the clitoris, up to and including the vaginal passage is very similar to the tissues found in the urethra... not the foreskin. The skin in the urethra and the vagina is much thinner and more senistive which allows for better penetration of transdermals. With the penis, it would have to penetrate the foreskin AND the tunica before the target tissues are reached. That's not the case with women... I'll try to do more research on this.
This is going to sound stupid, but... can someone explain the purpose of the injections? Sounds like it forces an erection. How does that help with Penis Enlargement?