Dispelling the Myth

I have held my breath for the most part on the topic of FR as it has been discussed here, only chiming in a few times when I think the dogma had reached extreme levels, but now I wish to give my full opinion on the topic. I know there are quite a few people opposed to FR, but all of the posts occur in pro-FR threads and those opposed almost always (wrongfully) get accused of being hateful, jealous, ect... so because of this I have decided to start a new place to discuss this topic.

***FOR THE RECORD***

*I believe FR is possible
*I believe FR might have some potential merit
*I am not threatened by FR or anyone who undertakes it
*I do NOT believe that FR will cause extreme orgasms/bigger dicks/more sensation/decreased aggression/ect...

This being said, I do believe there is quite a lot of bullshit being forced upon some of the more inexperienced and impressionable members at this forum. There are no studies to back up 90% of the claims that the advocates of FR claim and I think it is very damaging to the credibility of the forum to let things go on as they are. As I stated in another thread in which rediculous claims about FR were being made, I believe that FR has taken on a cult-like mentality here. The posts that promote it are becoming frightenly similar to the ROP posts this place was plauged with for the longest time. Those who have been at the forum for more than a few months can remember how things went with the ROP (I have come to the forum on a semi daily basis since it opened 1.5 years ago, I only registered recently).

The ROP began as an erection aid, producing viagra-like benefits to the user. While it was a complete hoax IMHO this claim is relatively tame compared to the bullshit that went on over time. The progression went as follows.

"I have been experiencing trouble staying hard for my Penis Enlargement sessions and during love making, what should I do?"
"Get a ROP"

"I plan on growing 3 inches to the length of my dick and making a substantial improvement to the thickness as well in the coming 2 months, how can I undertake this most appropriately?"
"Get a ROP"

"My GF left me for another man, I am failing out of school, I have trouble paying my bills, and I've never accomplished my lifelong dream of being an astronaut. What can I do about it?"
"Get a ROP"

To anyone who scoffs at the preceding dialog, please don't. This shit happened here at MOS on a daily basis for over 6 months and the MODS and ADMINS didn't do a damn thing to stop it for a very long time.

It might pain a certain proclaimer of FR to join the ranks of Supra, but I feel that things are well on their way. FR has existed in the internet for as long as Penis Enlargement has, and when it began the purpose of foreskin restoration was to restore your foreskin, for the sake of restoring your foreskin. It is now being marketed as the end-all, be-all solution to any sexual problem that I man can have. Anyone who posts about his lack of length, lack of girth, penile curvature, decreased libido, decreased sexual stamina, decreased erection power, ect...is told that the cause was a botched circumcision. I think this is wrong. For those that believe this, and many people come here desperate and will believe anything the highly acclaimed moderators tell them, they will blindly follow the advice and be very frustrated when they don't get results with their problem. This hurts the credibility of the forum, DLD, the members, moderators, and of course, DLD himself.

I imagine Kong is going to chime in and claim that a)I am hateful towards him and am taking personal attacks and b)FR is nothing like the ROP situation because he isn't profitting. However, I have not taken any personal attacks and I didn't just post this thread for the hell of it. Things went back and forth in a recent thread in the FR forum titled 'Attitude towards parents' with Kong, AC, myself, and a few other members. Also, just because no one is profitting here (as of now) with FR does not mean that it is harmless. I think many people will agree that it is being rammed down our throats.

I don't have anything against Kong or anyone else for that matter who strongly believes in FR. I don't think he is intentially trying to hurt or deceive us by promoting FR. I can already foresee what the defense is going to say in response to my post. They are going to ask me why I care and why they would go so far with the FR charade. To me the answer is simple. I don't care if another man wants to regrow his foreskin but I am bothered by all of the propaganda that exists on this topic at MOS. And I think that the need for this stems from a classical male insecurity. We are all insecure about the size of our penis on some level or we wouldn't be here, this is discounting the small fraction of us who have achieved our lifetime Penis Enlargement goal size and are only here to comtinue to help out in the Penis Enlargement community. I am going to go ahead and make a quick simplifying assumption and lump dissatisfaction over penile curvature, premature ejaculation, hairy shaft, ect... into the same category with size. Some of us just are not happy about our sexual prowess for a variety of reasons. There are several ways to deal with it. It is common with the whole penis size issue to rationalize that huge dicks do not exist, or some here have come up with rediculous figures for how small the average erect penis is. I have heard some claim that 5 inches BP is an average size. Clearly 5 inches is below the average, any survey in existence about adult penis size will tell you this, whether self reported or not. This is an example of classical denial and claiming that every problem with male sexuality can be caused by the removal of a flap of skin around the penis head is along the same lines. Some people can come to terms with what they are unhappy about (and I do believe this is a major step in becoming proactive about your Penis Enlargement and being productive, rather than making excuses), while others will always look for an excuse. With dick size there has always been the classical denial of huge dicks and now this FR stuff is whats taking over. It is basically saying "You are OK, you have the mammoth cock you have always wanted and the sexual prowess along too, you've always had it, all you need to do is unlock your magic foreskin again and you will miraculously regain what you had all along." I guess some people need to live this kind of lie to feel secure about themselves. I don't. I won't. I know I am here to make gains. I don't concern myself with why I am the way I am, whether it be genetics, diet, a tight circumcision. It doesn't matter, I think FR is a big crutch here for those that want to blame everybody but themselves. You can get what you want with Penis Enlargement but no magic pill, cream, lotion, ROP, or foreskin is going to do it for you. You're going to have to jelq, squeeze, stretch, and hang your dick for months/years until you're blue in the face. Most of the true big gainers such as SWM and DLD have proven this one.

This post was not intended to hurt the feelings of anyone, I support those who wish they had a foreskin, I just hope you are doing FR for the right reason and not due to some kind of propaganda that you have been tricked into believing. I know how frustrating these male insecurities can be and I wish everyone here the best. I can not wait to get everyone's opinion here about this, especially DLD. I hope you don't sit back and watch this debate without partaking and giving us your thoughts. Let me know what you think everyone.

-Skepdick

Skepdick, great post. I am weary though, that since this hasn't reached ROP proportions YET, it isn't going to be taken well. People tend to get beaten down for bringing something up before it is a problem. A 9-11 conundrum.

I applaud you, and I think you know this post isn't going to be taken well. Good luck to you, I'll be here to help if I can.

While I don't believe FR alone will make your penis bigger, I do think it can be an aid in Penis Enlargement, perhaps speeding the process up slightly. I do know that it has given me better sensitivity, but I know that this can't be proven. And I think Kong illustrated this idea pretty well in "Foreskin Restoration Benefits-- Subjective and Objective." Sure you can't prove some of the benefits, but once you experience them for yourself, you'll know. And not all guys get all of the benefits. I know that I for one, don't get more intense orgasms, but it sure does feel a lot better getting to that point. As far as FR applied to Penis Enlargement, I see it as a means to an end. It's a tool to help you get to your goal. It isn't a replacement for hard Penis Enlargement work though, as far as gaining size, because I don't think you can gain size on FR alone, as I said.

I agree with Alloy that it isn't close to the ROP thing yet, but I do believe that some people can get way overzealous about it. And I'm not just referring to Kong, although I do include him. However, I've seen nastier comments from other people than anything I have seen Kong say. Kong isn't a dick about it, where some other people have been. Kong is just very passionate about FR, and I completely understand why.

Anyway, my whole point is, many of the benefits of FR are subjective. They can't be proven, so when you see some FR enthusiast post about better orgasms due to FR, don't just assume he's full of shit and spouting propaganda. If he percieves his orgasms to be more intense, then they are. How can you argue and say "They aren't more intense! Where's your proof?!?" Because it is impossible to prove. That's like if you told me you were sad, and I called BS because you can't prove your emotion. Both of these are subjective things. And perception will definitely vary from person to person.

BUT, I think you have the wrong idea about one aspect. I don't know of anyone that's hoping to reach their size goals through foreskin. FR is not touted as an enlargement method. The closest it gets is that it may help speed gains slightly. Slightly! I don't know of anyone that claims that FR is a replacement for Penis Enlargement as far as size gains, and I don't think anyone is saying that FR will magically give you sexual prowess that you were robbed of as a baby. The benefits are all listed in Kong's "Foreskin Restoration Benefits-- Subjective and Objective" thread. Check it out. I'm going to make it a sticky so people will see it first thing when they enter this forum, so it will be clear what they can expect, and what they may percieve.

Good post cyclops.... Honestly, I'm doing light FR considering some of the guys here and other places get really worked up about being covered 24/7, me I normally go between 6-8 hours, and I usually FR after a session so that I can heal a bit faster because more blood flows to the area locally, at least that's what I have noticed, and I know this for a fact that when I take off the weighted cone I use that my bruising is much lighter and I measured right after removall and I was around .25 larger in girth. Does this prove absolutely that it improves healing, no. I can say that I don't experience those nasty skin tears I was getting after girth work, my skin is more pliable than it use to be, but I've always had a bit of extra skin since I wasn't cut "too tight", and Penis Enlargement exaserbated this natural amount of skin, so I took it and said "why not" just to have a covering, like a hoodie for my penis. I don't see this as anything like the ROP and I still think the ROP may have merit with guys with low test levels, since that was what the original research was done on and it proved to be useful. That whole situation went both ways, from all praise to all rage. I think we just need to Penis Enlargement, reach the goals set for ourselves and go on with our lives. Learn to be satisfied and fulfilled in the Lord and discover who you are in Him and everything else passes away. The only reason I am still Peing at all is because I always finish what I start, and I'm almost there.

AlloyCG said:

Skepdick, great post. I am weary though, that since this hasn't reached ROP proportions YET, it isn't going to be taken well. People tend to get beaten down for bringing something up before it is a problem. A 9-11 conundrum.

I applaud you, and I think you know this post isn't going to be taken well. Good luck to you, I'll be here to help if I can.

Click to expand...

You obviously understood my intentions with this post and I am happy for that. I think there are many warning signs already for FR. A lot of bullshit is being discussed so openly and matter-of-factly that it risks becoming accepted as common knowledge. If 10 of the highly acclaimed members of an online forum said they drank 3 gallons of rancid goat piss at each meal and make a bunch of posts discussing it at length that said it accounted for their record gains in length and girth many of the members would take it as a scientific fact that a direct correlation exist between goat piss consumption and faster penis enlargement gains. No one questions the science behind it!!! And we can't wait until the problem is already right out on the table, affecting every aspect of the forum at its core because by that point the damage is done. Once again, do a search for the words "Ring of Power" and review the history of that bullshit hoax if you don't believe me, FR makes many identical claims, and it only gets worse each week.

I remember RED eating a bunch of fern leaves thinking it would make his penis bigger, or at the very least be a Penis Enlargement aid. Thank god that didn't catch on.

A repost from what I said in the main forum...

I think what Skepdick is trying to do is prevent another ROP fiasco. He's not trying to squelch FR, or get people not to do it. He's not even debating that there may be some benefits. What he is trying to squelch is FR getting the godlike status that the ROP had. Simply a calling of people to be on their toes whenever the "next big thing" happens. Similar to my aversion to clamping. In fact, exactly like it.

[For those of you that don't know about me and clamping, I pretty much did what Skepdick did as trying to stop the rumor that clamping was the end all to girth work.]

I agree somewhat with Skep. I've never totally subcribed to some of the claims made by the guys who are uber-pro forskin restoration. The guys making the claims that seem to give FR an almost miracle like status. The guys making it seem almost like there was a twin aborted at birth that the circumcised of us were never told about by our evil parents. I can see how FR can have some benefits, but I dont see it as a cure all that some guys seem to be promoting it as. I'm not directing my comments toward any individuals either. We're all here to pursue our own goals. Some of us want length/girth, some just one or the other, and some want both and a restored forskin, some just a forskin. Like I said, to each their own.

That said, I dont see where anyone has had FR shoved down their throat. I'm a mod, so if anything has been going on like that, I probably would have seen it. I'm not buddies with any of the other mods...in other words, I dont give anyone preferential status, DLD is about the only one who's ass I could say that I 'might' be up to any degree. Love ya Man. FR has gotten it's own forum because there seems to have developed enough of an interest in it here recently to merrit this. Also, this way it does not end up having more of an impact on the forum than it should. Just like hanging, or pumping. These other types of Penis Enlargement have their own sub-forums to keep the main Penis Enlargement forum focused on just that, the main types of Penis Enlargement....manual exercises focused directly on size increases.

I'm not about to hop on any individual's bandwagon and say things like "yea man, youre right....FR is the way to go...I'll help ya promote it so it gets more attention..." or "yea man, I'll chime in to your post on how you doubt FR because you need my "influence" to help lean your post a particular direction...." not gonna happen. I've stated my views.

Now, don't take this is any kind of defensive, antagonistic way...but how do you know it doesn't do what some of us says it can do? You clearly do not believe it works. You clearly do not want to do it. You clearly are uninterested in it in any way except to keep it from moving into the realm of the ROP. I think you have it in your head that there is something deceptive about it because you already have some preconceived notions...maybe even prejudices...against uncut men. Please see my thread on the objective/subjective benefits and get on with your life. I never said many of the things you believe I have promised. You must have me confused with Supra and his ROP. I am not self-aggrandizing like our friend Supey, nor am I profiteering. Yes, I am LOUD about FR because their is so much entrenched dogma about uncut men that you have to yell loud to be heard over the cacaphony of "smelly", "dirty", "nasty", and "unhealthy" propaganda from the pro-circ industry (and yes, it is an industry). I have never promised anything that wasn't at least anecdotally proven. I am only trying to get my voice heard over the engine of the money machine that mows down penises here in the US every day by the thousands, for no medically proven reason! Am I zealous? Hell, yeah! Wholesale sexual mutilation of men makes me angry and revolted. Of course, you being one of those poor victims who believes his foreskin was just a "little flap of skin" is never going to be able to come to terms with what was horrifically and tragically done to you. Is FR a ROP? No, baby, it's the real deal!!!

I don't believe in Foreskin Restoration because I am insecure about my sexual prowess, the size of my penis or whatever. That is just another tactic to make my beliefs seem sili and unbelievable. Either that, or you're projecting. To be honest, I think I have a pretty big cock and I also believe I am really good in the sack. :D Part of my doing FR is greed. I am greedy for more pleasure, more powerful orgasms...more to play around with. My wife loves to play with my skin, pull it up over the head, run her tongue in circles over it...and I love it too. She likes that uncut smell and taste I have developed over the last 10 months. She told me as much. You think FR is some kind of crutch for me? Dude, its EMPOWERING! FR has for me a dual quality. First, I am taking a stand against a disgusting sexual assault on men, and second, it appeals to my sensual and kinky sexual nature.

You guys really surprise me. You stand there and say What you think FR will and wont do, and you don't even do it yourselves. Funny how you beleive straight away that Pe does work, yet FR has no possibility of enlarging your penis. If you use your brains you can actually figure out that a possible enlargement of the penis is possible through growing more skin, it isnt hard to figure out how, I will let you all think for yourselves ( you only have to read peoples progress diaries to find out it IS possible ).
I feel kong is getting posts personally directed towards him in attempts to belittle his claims based upon what he has experienced through his FR journey, give the guy a break, all he is doing is trying to help out others by telling them what he has experienced, fair enough no one is saying you have to agree with everything he says I personally thought his previous claim of making an aggressive nation is sili but then that doesnt mean to say the rest of his word is false, I can say that being circd has made me less interested in sex compared to people my age, who are uncut and made me more interested in other things such as drugs, simply becuase sex is really insensitive, so maybe he was onto something.
Secondly the ROP was a product that was being sold under many claims, whenever someone had a problem as if by magic the ROP could solve it, how can you even begin to compare the ROP and kongs word on Fr? He gains nothing from telling others what he knows or has experienced.
You people need to chill out lay off making attacks against kong and disproveing claims people make about FR and start concentrating on whatever it is you do and what is important like growing your foreskin back.

stillwantmore said:

The guys making the claims that seem to give FR an almost miracle like status. The guys making it seem almost like there was a twin aborted at birth that the circumcised of us were never told about by our evil parents.

Click to expand...

Our parents are not evil, they are just ignorant and stupid.

Good post, ex. This is nothing but an attack on FR, pure and simple, by men who are uneducated about it, inexperienced with it, and biased against it. These dudes actually think it is okay to cut up a baby boy, but the clitoris is sacrosanct! They said as much! That it was different to circ a girl! Prejudiced! They think the foreskin is just a useless little flap of skin! They're talking about the "bad smell"! It's time to circle the wagon, boys. This isn't constructive at all. This is a pure out attack!

AlloyCG said:

I remember RED eating a bunch of fern leaves thinking it would make his penis bigger, or at the very least be a Penis Enlargement aid. Thank god that didn't catch on.

Click to expand...

Its still in testing, it did prevent me from ejaculating so yeah I found something mate. If you dont try something than you wont learn from it, dont knock it till you've tried it.

I also think that this topic shouldnt be attacked.
If a man has his Foreskin removed for WHATEVER reasons, than why fuckin not try to restore it sometime in his life? FR is what its about, it has raised hopes for many men who lost their foreskin and indeed had it took away from them at birth.
I'm UNCUT myself, and I cant comment much on this topic...BUT as its takeing a slaggin here I will say, let the cut man find his own ways into dealing with his problem, it isnt a cure for anything.....its a new field of Penis Enlargement that has gotten alot of attention lately and alot of men are very happy with the results from FR, so please dont knock it and talk like you do, because its just going towards another fuckin drama thread.
If it does edge that direction, I will simply close this thread....flaming and other bullshit isnt welcomed here at MOS, everyman is entitled in Penis Enlargement do practice what he wants.....I LOVE Constricters and have got bashed for that but dont give a fuck, guys who pump and hang have been bashed in the past.....FR is new, so it will be hit....but it'll survive.

I think it's quite telling that, instead of simply ignoring it, they are trying their damnedest to cripple it. Despite what they say, they are truly attacking it, truly threatened by it. Red, you are correct. It will survive. FR has been done since the days of the Roman Empire.

Really if you think about it, FR is nowhere near the ROP. Lets look at it.

Supra claimed that the ROP did the following:

harder erections
bigger size
bigger balls
lower balls
more testosterone
clear skin
more body hair
deeper voice
more muscle mass
less fat
bigger loads (to the tune of 20-25 spurts)
much shorter refraction times
end premature ejaculation
more intense orgasms

And probably more, but those are the things that I can remember off the top of my head. And whats more, the claim wasn't that this stuff was possible, it was that you WILL have these effects.

Ojective FR benefits (borrowed from Kong):

Dekeratinization of the glans
Increased skin mobility
Reduction in the "turkey neck" syndrome from overly tight circs
Reduction of the "hairy shaft" syndrome from overly tight circs
Reduction of penis curvature from overly tight circs
Improved flaccid hang
Improved circulation
Creation of new, supple skin tissue
Reduction of stretch marks from overly tight circ

Subjective FR benefits (also from Kong...note: these are all based on anecdotal evidence, and should not be taken as fact. Some men may experience them, some may not)

Increased sexual pleasure
Increased horniness
Better erections
Increased comfort (no rubbing against underwear)
Sense of wholeness, of healing, of being a complete man
Increased sense of confidence
Blistering, mind-numbing full body orgasms
New foreskin is fun to play with!
Increased control during sex
Increased comfort and pleasure for female partner-- due to the gliding effect

No comparison to the ROP. And for those of you that think the foresking is only a flap of skin, I'll repeat what has been said many times. You are ignorant! Whether by choice or not, I don't care, but you are ignorant. Let's take a look at the many uses of a foreskin, shall we?

Sexual
1 Erotic pleasure, especially via the ridged band and Meissner's corpuscles
2 Acts as a rolling bearing in intercourse and masturbation
3 Prevents dyspareunia (painful intercourse)
4 Stimulates partner's genitalia, giving erotic pleasure
5 Supplies skin to cover the shaft in erection and prevent tightness
6 Stores pheromones and releases them on arousal
7 Stores and releases natural lubricants ("smega" and pre-ejaculatory fluid)
8 Makes the glans a visual signal of sexual arousal
9 Provides a seal against the vaginal wall to contain semen

Protective
10 Prevents the glans becoming keratinised, and keeps it soft and moist
11 Protects the thin-skinned glans against injury
12 Protects the nerves of the glans, retaining their erotic function
13 In infancy, protects the urethra against contamination, meatal stenosis, (and UTIs?)
14 Provides lysosomes for bacteriostatic action around the glans
15 Pigmented, it protects the unpigmented glans against sunburn
16 Vascular (rich in blood vessels that bring heat to the tissues), it protects the less vascular glans against frostbite, as Sir Ranulph Fiennes found on his epic transpolar walk.

Other
17 Provides skin for grafts to burnt eyelids, reconstructive surgery, etc.
18 Storage of contact lenses, smuggled jewels, etc

Now those last two things are a bit odd, but you can see what functions a foreskin has. Also check out http://www.circumstitions.com/Notjustaflap.html for reasons why it isn't just a flap of skin.

Now here's something called "The Lost List." It's a list of things that are lost to circumcision, and which ones can be restored, and which ones are lost forever.

http://www.norm.org/lost.html

Check out www.circumstitions.org and educate yourselves on what you're arguing against, because you're obviously ignorant. You can't present a good argument if you don't even understand your opposition.

REDZULU2003 said:

I also think that this topic shouldnt be attacked.
If a man has his Foreskin removed for WHATEVER reasons, than why fuckin not try to restore it sometime in his life? FR is what its about, it has raised hopes for many men who lost their foreskin and indeed had it took away from them at birth.
I'm UNCUT myself, and I cant comment much on this topic...BUT as its takeing a slaggin here I will say, let the cut man find his own ways into dealing with his problem, it isnt a cure for anything.....its a new field of Penis Enlargement that has gotten alot of attention lately and alot of men are very happy with the results from FR, so please dont knock it and talk like you do, because its just going towards another fuckin drama thread.
If it does edge that direction, I will simply close this thread....flaming and other bullshit isnt welcomed here at MOS, everyman is entitled in Penis Enlargement do practice what he wants.....I LOVE Constricters and have got bashed for that but dont give a fuck, guys who pump and hang have been bashed in the past.....FR is new, so it will be hit....but it'll survive.

Click to expand...

Well said Red. Let the man with the problem solve it.

Cyclops, all I can say about your post is...

FUCKING A+ DUDE!!!!!!!

:redbounce :clap: :drinkup: :bounce: :wave: :bouncesqu :bouncings :clank:

kong1971 said:

Good post, ex. This is nothing but an attack on FR, pure and simple, by men who are uneducated about it, inexperienced with it, and biased against it. These dudes actually think it is okay to cut up a baby boy, but the clitoris is sacrosanct! They said as much! That it was different to circ a girl! Prejudiced!

Click to expand...

Female circumcision is a whole different animal when compared to male circumcision and the two should not be used interchangeably. Female circumcision refers to cutting off the clitoris which has been widely believed to be the source of all or most of the sensation a woman feels during sex. The vast majority of women cannot orgasm without direct clitoral stimulation. In the womb, all embryos start out essentially the same, and the presence of a Y chromosome triggers testosterone which causes the clitoris to develop into a penis. Clearly one could argue very easily that female circumcision is sexual mutilation (the 2 terms are often used synonymously), but the equivalent for males would be to cut off the entire penis! I hope that the distinction that I am trying to draw has been made clear here. Cutting off the foreskin of a male and cutting off the clit of a woman are both labelled "circumcision" but they are completely different operations, the word "circumcision" is a homonym, meaning that it is a word spelled the same way but with several meanings dictated by whether or not you are talking about a male or female. I am cut and function just fine, and I will admit, that if I had had my dick chopped off at birth I would have grown up to be rather upset about it but this is not the issue at hand.

And I don't get your argument that circumcision is an issue of me and other people discriminating against men, it's hardly a double standard. In real life I am actually considered to be somewhat of a mysogynst and would never stand for something that was gender biased against men and used to suppress us. Your discrimination claim is merely a shock technique.