If Jesus would return?

Hrm...is that a general statement to any Christians, or just to Juggers? Because I'm willing to answer if you like.

Andithilion said:

Hrm...is that a general statement to any Christians, or just to Juggers? Because I'm willing to answer if you like.

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Yes anyone can answer

I believe in God because I read the bible, went to church a few times (Although I don't attend church regularly, it gets on my nerves...goes to show that not all Christians are what you think ).

Anyway, basically, something about it just felt right. Divine inspiration, I suppose. I felt Him inside of me, and I just...knew. Sometimes it takes forever for you to feel the Hand of God inside of you to show you, and sometimes it happens right away. I've struggled with my faith between the ages of 12-15, and 15 is when I finally got saved. There's no one thing that can really convert you, but I'd say the biggest influence on my Christianity was probably the Left Behind books.

Saved from what?

I like any Christian still struggle with my faith at 19 years old...just like anything else, there is always a struggle. No one made me believe what I believe, I did it on my own. I guess when I was about 16 I struggled with lifes questions and wanted answers like every other human. "Why are we here?", "whats the purpose of life?". I was scared of death and didn't want to believe that I would die someday...I wanted to have a purpose. I refused to believe that we just get born, live a crappy life, then die with no meaning. Just die. Whats the point anyway? I wanted to have a reason, I wanted to believe in something. I went to church, accepted Christ as my savior, and ever since then my life has been different. Its just a choice. No one can make you believe. If you truly think that your on this earth just to die and thats the end of it then fine. I on the other hand I with a few other billion choose to think differently.

Juggers said:

I like any Christian still struggle with my faith at 19 years old...just like anything else, there is always a struggle. No one made me believe what I believe, I did it on my own. I guess when I was about 16 I struggled with lifes questions and wanted answers like every other human. "Why are we here?", "whats the purpose of life?". I was scared of death and didn't want to believe that I would die someday...I wanted to have a purpose. I refused to believe that we just get born, live a crappy life, then die with no meaning. Just die. Whats the point anyway? I wanted to have a reason, I wanted to believe in something. I went to church, accepted Christ as my savior, and ever since then my life has been different. Its just a choice. No one can make you believe. If you truly think that your on this earth just to die and thats the end of it then fine. I on the other hand I with a few other billion choose to think differently.

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Thank you for a honest answer,that is what i have always thought religion is simply there because people are scared of death.

Couple of quotes that might get you thinking.

"Religion is based . . . mainly on fear . . . fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. . . . My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race."

"Fear is the parent of cruelty, therefore it is no wonder if religion and cruelty have gone hand-in-hand."

"I believe that when I die I shall rot, and nothing of my ego will survive. I am not young, and I love life. But I should scorn to shiver with terror at the thought of annihilation. Happiness is none the less true happiness because it must come to an end, nor do thought and love lose their value because they are not everlasting."

"I am myself a dissenter from all known religions, and I hope that every kind of religious belief will die out."

- Bertrand Russell, British philosopher, educator, mathematician, and social critic (1872-1970).

"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."

"I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."

"If people are good only because they fear punisHydromaxent, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."

-Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist

"It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him."

"Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?"

Arthur C. Clarke, author

penguinsfan said:

For whatever it's worth, I've heard that historical records kept by Roman officials detail the crucifixtion of a man named Jesus and that his body was found missing shortly afterwards. I think there is enough evidence to suggest the events happened, though that certainly does not prove the divinity of Jesus.

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Exactly right. There is historical evidence of a man named Jesus crucified. But that does'nt prove divinity.

Yes, I feared death before, but no longer fear death like I used to. Death was one of the reasons, but the true power and feeling I got from accepting Christ was a whole different feeling...there's a difference between religion and faith in Christ....anyone can be religious, praying 5 times a day, wearing religious symbols...the condition of your heart and spirit are the only thing that really matter. There is no scientific proof of what will happen to our thoughts or spirit or soul after we die....so the obvious route we are to take is pure faith in what may happen...at least that is something....So I suppose the world views Christians are wrong doers? Are we really wrong for believing in God? Really? Someone smoking crack or selling dope on the corner is right? Are they wrong? Who is to say really right? Its their life, I mean, who is to say???? Thats why as a person you must take a stand on what your beliefs are...or else you will be blown any which way by the wind.

No your not wrong to believe in god,a person should be allowed to believe in whatever they want,it becomes wrong when that belief is used to hurt or persecute people.

Being from the uk i would say religion is on the decline,i no on the rare occasion i go to the local chapel were i was baptized i see very few youngsters amongest the congregation the same goes for the local catholic church.

Being that the majority of this board is based in the states one thing i have noticed is that a lot of the younger members are almost fanatical in there belief,to the point that some seem to view themselves as being morally supperior and on occasion show almost hatred and contempt for those who choose not to believe,this i find strange considering these same people will preach love and peace.

prince Albert said:

No your not wrong to believe in god,a person should be allowed to believe in whatever they want,it becomes wrong when that belief is used to hurt or persecute people.

Being from the uk i would say religion is on the decline,i no on the rare occasion i go to the local chapel were i was baptized i see very few youngsters amongest the congregation the same goes for the local catholic church.

Being that the majority of this board is based in the states one thing i have noticed is that a lot of the younger members are almost fanatical in there belief,to the point that some seem to view themselves as being morally supperior and on occasion show almost hatred and contempt for those who choose not to believe,this i find strange considering these same people will preach love and peace.

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I totally agree...every one is different, hence the bad name religion has been getting for a long time. Take Muslims for example, a lot of people think that all Muslims want to kill Americans and thats in their religion...there are however some very nice Muslim people who hate that kind of stuff. There are some people who say they are Christian and act Christian, but do dumb crap. Thats why we aren't supposed to judge people by how they act because you never really know the condition of that persons heart...only God knows that. Thats why He is the ultimate judge because he knows.

Ok juggers,i would say i am a good person but i don't believe in god,i have 3 children and i am raising them to no the difference between right and wrong,i'm faithful to my wife i work hard pay my taxes,i go out of my way to be helpful to others as this is the way i was raised.

Now lets say god does exsist and he looks into my heart on the day of judgement and he see's i'm basicaly a good man but he knows ive been an unbeliever all my adult life,what does he do?

On the other hand he looks into the heart of a priest who has devoted his life to the church but see's that deep down this man has wanted to hurt or abuse children.What does he do?

prince Albert said:

Ok juggers,i would say i am a good person but i don't believe in god,i have 3 children and i am raising them to no the difference between right and wrong,i'm faithful to my wife i work hard pay my taxes,i go out of my way to be helpful to others as this is the way i was raised.

Now lets say god does exsist and he looks into my heart on the day of judgement and he see's i'm basicaly a good man but he knows ive been an unbeliever all my adult life,what does he do?

On the other hand he looks into the heart of a priest who has devoted his life to the church but see's that deep down this man has wanted to hurt or abuse children.What does he do?

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Good question. I cant answer this fully because its one of those gray questions...Im glad that theres an answer somewhere in the Bible referring to this. Basically, God knows that there are people who don't believe. These people, like yourself are sinners. Everyone sins against God, including myself and billions of other Christians. The difference is, Christians are forgiven through the sacrifice that Jesus made. Because God knew that his creation would eventually turn on him (due to free will because He loves us and created us in his image), He created a way that would bring us back into sync with him. If a person doesn't believe in God, such as yourself for example as you say, there is no redemption for that person, no way of becoming righteous in the eyes of God. The priest you speak of....God knows the priest sick weakness. However, because the priest has been saved by grace and his Son, he will be judged according to that. In other words, even Christan's can go to hell if they continue a life of sin. But like I said, this is a tough question that I don't fully have the knowledge or wisdom to answer. I would really like to know the unbelievers reasons for not "believing"...some people believe in far more questionable and bazaar things in this life, and yet a simple faith and belief in God is so morbid. People are rebellious by nature, and sinful by choice.

prince Albert said:

Ok juggers,i would say i am a good person but i don't believe in god,i have 3 children and i am raising them to no the difference between right and wrong,i'm faithful to my wife i work hard pay my taxes,i go out of my way to be helpful to others as this is the way i was raised.

Now lets say god does exsist and he looks into my heart on the day of judgement and he see's i'm basicaly a good man but he knows ive been an unbeliever all my adult life,what does he do?

On the other hand he looks into the heart of a priest who has devoted his life to the church but see's that deep down this man has wanted to hurt or abuse children.What does he do?

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You won't like the answer, but according to the Bible and Christian Faith:

You would go to Hell. The only path to immortality in Christ is through Christ. It doesn't matter how good of a life you live; everyone is born a sinner. I know that's hard to take, but that's the way it is. Everyone of us is born a sinner, and all sins are equal. Unless you let Christ save you (Also, to be 'saved' is to have Jesus save your soul, forgive you), you can not enter the kingdom of Heaven.

The priest would go into Heaven. Because he resisted. Everyone in the world has urges that are wrong. I have violent urges a lot, because I'm a very angry person sometimes, and have a hard time controlling myself. If a person who killed 500 children with a pipe bomb honest-to-god asked for forgiveness and was sorry for what he did, he would be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven, while the athiest cop who arrested him would burn in Hell.

I know this may not seem fair, but if you believe in Christ, then think about it: He gave us every single thing in existance. He gave us every blade of grass, every tree, every second of life. You owe him something.

Juggers said:

In other words, even Christan's can go to hell if they continue a life of sin.

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A Christian who has truly been saved and is truly forgiven, and has truly asked for forgiveness, woudln't continue a life of sin. The thoughts in your heart do not translate to acts of sin. If you have horrible urges in your heart, that is bad, but if you control them and don't dwell on them, God forgives you for them. If you wantonly, knowingly sin and just say, "Hey God, forgive me?", it doesn't work that way. You have to want God to forgive you, and to want that, you have to know you're wrong.

Andithilion said:

A Christian who has truly been saved and is truly forgiven, and has truly asked for forgiveness, woudln't continue a life of sin. The thoughts in your heart do not translate to acts of sin. If you have horrible urges in your heart, that is bad, but if you control them and don't dwell on them, God forgives you for them. If you wantonly, knowingly sin and just say, "Hey God, forgive me?", it doesn't work that way. You have to want God to forgive you, and to want that, you have to know you're wrong.

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Well said. However, thoughts can become sinful...what if you are really really thinking about killing someone....or having sex with someone, aren't you committing a sinful act mentally, just by thinking of it? Didn't Jesus say that you shouldn't even be thinking of such thoughts. This being on purpose. I think even a person who accepted Christ can continue a life of sin and then go to Hell. But I see your point though. A true Christian is not a one time thing, being Christian is a life-time commitment.

Juggers i think there are two types of people,the ones who don't want to accept that this life is all there is,ive heard countless times people say BUT THEREs GOT TO BE SOMETHING AFTER,why does there have to be something after,because we can comprehend that one day we will grow old and die scares people and religion of any sort gives them the strength to deal with that.

On the other side there are people who accept that one day they will die and this life is all there is.

I can list dozens of other reasons.

Andithilion a bit like when the IRA used to murder people then go to church and ask for forgiveness?

Do you not find it strange that the majority of the great minds of our time are athiest,men and women who can comprehend things most of us couldn't.

prince Albert said:

Juggers i think there are two types of people,the ones who don't want to accept that this life is all there is,ive heard countless times people say BUT THEREs GOT TO BE SOMETHING AFTER,why does there have to be something after,because we can comprehend that one day we will grow old and die scares people and religion of any sort gives them the strength to deal with that.

On the other side there are people who accept that one day they will die and this life is all there is.

I can list dozens of other reasons.

Andithilion a bit like when the IRA used to murder people then go to church and ask for forgiveness?

Do you not find it strange that the majority of the great minds of our time are athiest,men and women who can comprehend things most of us couldn't.

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Yes, and it is just like Men to be lovers of knowledge and themselves...I am not suprised. Like I have been saying before it is a choice one makes on their own, to beleive or not.

Juggers said:

Well said. However, thoughts can become sinful...what if you are really really thinking about killing someone....or having sex with someone, aren't you committing a sinful act mentally, just by thinking of it? Didn't Jesus say that you shouldn't even be thinking of such thoughts. This being on purpose. I think even a person who accepted Christ can continue a life of sin and then go to Hell. But I see your point though. A true Christian is not a one time thing, being Christian is a life-time commitment.

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I agree, but it's the dwelling on the thought that is sinful. If you have a flash thought of screwing a 15 year old when you're married, that's not a sin. If you masturbate in bed at night to it, or picture the 15 year old while screwing your wife, that's sinful.

prince Albert said:

Andithilion a bit like when the IRA used to murder people then go to church and ask for forgiveness?

Do you not find it strange that the majority of the great minds of our time are athiest,men and women who can comprehend things most of us couldn't.

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I don't think religion has that much to do with intelligence. Like I said, being a Christian is a matter of faith. I mean, I have an IQ of between 150-160 (I hate IQ tests, they flunctuate too much), and I'm a devout Christian. Now, I'm not saying I'm as smart as, say, Einstein or Newton or anything, just that I'm a pretty intelligent person who still believes in God.

Also, as for the IRA, it doesn't work that way. I couldn't bash someone's head in, say, "Sorry, God" and then just go about my merry way. It takes true forgiveness in your heart for it to work, and if you repeatedly do it, then you're not sorry, and God will know it. It's all about what's in your heart; you can't hide that. If Hitler had been genuinely, GENUINELY sorry right before he died, and had asked God for forgiveness, he would have gone to Heaven. Ghandi is in Hell right now because he wasn't a Christian. See what I mean? You have to be sincere about what you want. I could ask God for forgiveness all day, but if I didn't really mean it, I would still roast in Hell.

If anyone wants to talk about this any more, or maybe talk about getting saved (or ask me any specific Christianity questions), you can message me.

I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

If a creator exists, he doesn't care very much about humanity and the world.