Bib's LOT Theory

so my Loss of Tugbag i estimate is 7:30.

this means i want to do straight out and/or over the shoulder hanging.
this also means i will have average gains.
if i hang straight down between the cheeks hanging, i will just be stretching skin.
to test this, i should hang between the cheeks for one month and see if i get any gains.

correct?

http://www.thundersplace.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28320&highlight=LOT

read the hanger's forum there, alot of great stuff.

"When LOT is 9:00-12:00, potential for quick and easy gains from low hanging and stretching is optimal.
When LOT is 8:00-9:00, potential for quick and easy gains from low hanging and stretching is enough to exploit; however, checking for changes in LOT should be practiced, as the LOT decreases as the ligaments are stretched.
When LOT is 7:00-8:00, potential gains from low hanging and stretching is minimal. Low hanging and stretching should be coupled with high hanging and stretching.
When LOT is 6:00-7:00, potential gains from low hanging and stretching is low enough to ignore ligament stretching. Focus should be placed on stretching the tunica by high angle stretching and hanging."

dkeicei,

>so my Loss of Tugbag i estimate is 7:30. this means i want to do straight out and/or over the shoulder hanging.<

I would do as you say below, and try the lower angles first. If you have gains, stick with it till you have no gains for at least one month. But realize, if you have not hung before, you will have learning time in the beginning. Do not make any judgements until you have hung at your MAX weight without gains for one month. MAX weight is the lowest weight at which you reach fatigue within the first set or two.

>this also means i will have average gains.<

No. It means that you may have to spend more time on stressing the tunica. Total gains, or gains in relation to other guys, will depend much more on your dedication.

>if i hang straight down between the cheeks hanging, i will just be stretching skin.<

That will probably be true in the beginning. But generally, everyone needs to stretch skin in the beginning. It is the first limiting factor. In fact, you should place the hanger a bit toward the base, trying to stretch skin. Then, when you have some extra, you can place the hanger more toward the head, and the stresses will be on the inner structures.

But that is another good point about hanging at the lower angles. Number 1, you will first have to learn how to use the hanger. Then, you will have to move up slowly in weight to reach your max weight, conditioning the soft tissues as you go. Then, at the same time, you will need to be stretching skin. Only then will you be truly stressing the internal structures to test if you have potential for lig gains from your 7:30 LOT. Only then can you truly judge the benefits of hanging at the lower angles. It is a process, aye.

>to test this, i should hang between the cheeks for one month and see if i get any gains. correct?<

No, I would say it will take more time than that. Two weeks or more to learn to use the hanger and begin moving up in time and weight. You do not have to hang at the BTC position to do this. Then, about two weeks to reach desired skin stretch levels. Then, perhaps another month to reach your MAX weight. Then, a month of hanging at your max weight to see if you reap any gains from lig stretch.

Some of this time overlaps. But I would say the least amount of time for a good test would be two and a half months. The good thing is, you will at least get your skin stretch out of the way, and have learned to use the hanger. You may very well also make some gains. It will not be wasted time.

I don't know who wrote the guidelines for the LOT which you posted, but it looks fairly accurate to me. I might have changed the wording just a bit.

Bigger

wow thanks alot master bib. i'm waiting for my hanger in the mail and in the mean time what shud i do to prepare for it. i have a wench and a bib starter, and a cc3. wench is the best. i've been testing different designs. i noticed straight down just pulls all that skin under the bush. but when i bend forward, touching my toes, i can feel it in my dick, at the base. which is straight out hanging. but the most difficult part is getting the wrap, that takes practice. i've got nothing to wrap, 1 1/2 flacid wewee. what can i do to increase flaccid size. either way, just keep the pointers coming and you'll see my money order in the mail soon. keep up the great work man! you are the best !

dkeicei,

>i'm waiting for my hanger in the mail and in the mean time what shud i do to prepare for it. i have a wench and a bib starter, and a cc3. wench is the best. i've been testing different designs.<

You already have a Bib Starter?

I don't know of anything you need to do to prepare for the hangers arrival. A band maybe?

>i noticed straight down just pulls all that skin under the bush.<
That is completely normal. As I said above, you will first have to stretch skn.

>but when i bend forward, touching my toes, i can feel it in my dick, at the base. which is straight out hanging.<

Also completely normal. As you raise the angle of hang, the stress comes off of the skin, and is directed at the internal structures.

>but the most difficult part is getting the wrap, that takes practice. i've got nothing to wrap, 1 1/2 flacid wewee. what can i do to increase flaccid size.<

Hanging or stretching generally will increase flaccid and erect lengths. But you are supposed to wrap while you stretch out your penis. What is your stretched flaccid length?

Bigger

Bib said:

1
Assumption: Those with more length gains started with shorter, tighter, or higher ligs and their ligs have been lengthened through Penis Enlargement. It would be nice to have starting measures for tugback loss and erection angle, but I think the stats speak to this problem. I know that for myself, before Penis Enlargement, my tugback loss angle HAD to be extremely high. If you started with high ligs, and you have made good gains, you will probably recognize that your entire package is now lower, indicating an increase in the length of your ligs.

As concerns erection angle vs. tugback angle loss, it must be realized that other factors affect erection angle other than lig tightness such as erection strength and tunica shape.

.
2
For the high group, as total length is increased, LOT is decreased (-0.75). For the low group, there is a small POSITIVE correlation (0.19). Also, for the high group, as gains go up, LOT goes down (-0.756). For the low group, as gains go up, LOT also goes UP (0.433)!

For the high group, as time goes up, LOT goes down ((-0.72). For the low group, there is again a small POSITIVE correlation (0.25).


Bigger

Click to expand...

I have several questions.

How can i measure my erection level? Is it same like measuring the LOT?
While im standing i get maximum erection. Then when i have maximum erection, i compare my erection level to a clock, high is 12 and so on?

What is the average erection level?

Is there an indication that when you have an high erection level, your ligs are high, even when your LOT is low?
Im asking this because the theory says when you lower your LOT the erection angle lowers also. So a low erection level indicates you have long ligs.

You said that when you work the tunica and made gains, the LOT raises.
Is it possible to raise your LOT without gaining?

The last question: You said that it is common when you made gains your erection level goes up. What is when your erection level is already very high.For example at 11. Can you make tunica gains? Im asking because i think it is very unlikely that your erection level can raise more, for example to 12.
Or to make a long expression short, there is a point where the erection level can not raise anymore, does this mean that there is no potential for tunica gains?

Forget to ask you.

Why you are considering a LOT of 8 a medium LOT?Why not 9?

What is in your theory a high LOT?

Dex,

>How can i measure my erection level? Is it same like measuring the LOT?<

Yes, generally guys report erection level by the clock face.

>While im standing i get maximum erection. Then when i have maximum erection, i compare my erection level to a clock, high is 12 and so on?<

Yes.

>What is the average erection level?<

I have no idea. Mine is a bit above 9.

>Is there an indication that when you have an high erection level, your ligs are high, even when your LOT is low?<

Not according to the stats I received. There was no corellation between EA and LOT. It probably has more to do with the actual shape of the individual tunica.

>Im asking this because the theory says when you lower your LOT the erection angle lowers also. So a low erection level indicates you have long ligs.<

No, I do not know where that came from. If you can point it out, I will look at it.

>You said that when you work the tunica and made gains, the LOT raises.<

If when stretching or hanging at the upper angles, the ligs remain the same, as they should, and the inner tunica is stretched, as it should be, then the LOT will rise. Many guys have reported this in practice.

>Is it possible to raise your LOT without gaining?<

Yes. If the inner tunica is stretched, the LOT would rise. But if the ligs attachments from the shaft to the pubic bone were strong enough and tight enough, the gains may not be displayed until the ligs are stretched.

>The last question: You said that it is common when you made gains your erection level goes up.<

No. I have no idea where that came from. My EA consistantly dropped over my hanging career. For me, I think it had to do with the weight/distance of my penis center of gravity increasing from the pubic bone, coupled with erection strength.

>What is when your erection level is already very high.For example at 11. Can you make tunica gains?<

You can make tunica gains at any time, if enough stress is used for enough time. The tunica is collagenous material, which while tough, can be deformed.

>Im asking because i think it is very unlikely that your erection level can raise more, for example to 12.<

You are probably right. Some guys have reported an increase in EA, with upper angle hanging, but not many. Their LOT may rise, but not usually EA.

>Or to make a long expression short, there is a point where the erection level can not raise anymore, does this mean that there is no potential for tunica gains?<

I see no relationship between EA and the ability to make tunica gains whatsoever.

>Why you are considering a LOT of 8 a medium LOT?Why not 9?<

Because over the years, it seems guys with an LOT of 8 or more can make good gains from lig stretch, hanging at the lower angles. Below 8, they may make some quick, but small gains from lig stretch, even down to 7.

>What is in your theory a high LOT?<

A high LOT indicates high, tight ligs which indicates a good potential for gains from lig stretch, exposing more of the shaft from the original skin exit point to the bottom of the pubic bone.

Bigger

Bib said:

>What is in your theory a high LOT?<

A high LOT indicates high, tight ligs which indicates a good potential for gains from lig stretch, exposing more of the shaft from the original skin exit point to the bottom of the pubic bone.

Bigger

Click to expand...

Thanks again bib.

But i wanted to know - epressed in numbers - what a high lot is in your opinion. For eample a 12 o clock lot is high in your opinion or something like that.
Sorry.

dex,

>But i wanted to know - epressed in numbers - what a high lot is in your opinion. For eample a 12 o clock lot is high in your opinion or something like that.<

12 is higher than 11. 11 is higher than 10. Etc, etc.

If you are asking what the mean or average is, I would guess somewhere between 8-9.

Bigger

Bib said:

>Why you are considering a LOT of 8 a medium LOT?Why not 9?<

Because over the years, it seems guys with an LOT of 8 or more can make good gains from lig stretch, hanging at the lower angles. Below 8, they may make some quick, but small gains from lig stretch, even down to 7.

Bigger

Click to expand...

Thank you bib,
hope this will be my last question in this threat.

What is the average gain you can expect when you are lowering your LOT for example 1 point down, i mean from 9 to 8,from 8 to 7 or from 7 to 6?
Or is my scale wrong,perhaps you only can see gains when you are lowering your LOT 2 points?
Or perhaps there is "accelerator" in a higher LOT,for example at 9,which means that when you go down with your LOT you get more gains per one point lowering the LOT than somebody who starts out with a 8 LOT?
Hope you will understand my accelerator idea.

by "accelerator" he means non-linear I guess.

dex,

>What is the average gain you can expect when you are lowering your LOT for example 1 point down, i mean from 9 to 8,from 8 to 7 or from 7 to 6?
Or is my scale wrong,perhaps you only can see gains when you are lowering your LOT 2 points?
Or perhaps there is "accelerator" in a higher LOT,for example at 9,which means that when you go down with your LOT you get more gains per one point lowering the LOT than somebody who starts out with a 8 LOT?
Hope you will understand my accelerator idea.<

I have no idea. It would be tough to calibrate, because there would probably be a degree of tunica gains involved also. Hard to differentiate.

Bigger

Hi bib,
i want to know your opinion about the following case:

Like you mention before, it is possible to raise your LOT when you are done with liq stretching by tunica work, mainly ots hanging or straight out hanging!
I think this assumption is to 99 percent right!
There are guys who did this, after they lowered their LOT by downward hanging, they started with upward hanging and raised their LOTS.

Here is my question now.
When in your opinion they should stop raising their LOTs? Can you give a lot number if you can judge this?

In the quote beneath you said that working the upper angles with a high LOT, can lead to no gains because of tight liqs.
Some people in the forums have the plan to hang the upper angles to raise their LOTs, for example to 10 o clock in order to hopefully gain easily trough downward hanging.
Do you think this makes sense? Is this raising to much?
If you think that this is not a good plan, do you think it is a waste of time to raise the LOT so far, for example to 10 o clock(because you might not gaining because of the tight liqs)?
Hope you understand my question.

Bib said:

>Is it possible to raise your LOT without gaining?<

Yes. If the inner tunica is stretched, the LOT would rise. But if the ligs attachments from the shaft to the pubic bone were strong enough and tight enough, the gains may not be displayed until the ligs are stretched.
Bigger

Click to expand...

You always said that almost everybody can gain by tunica stretching.
But now lets imagine a guy who is always hanging the upper angles, lets say the reason for this is because he likes it so much.
The common theory is now, that he will gain a lot over time because tunica work leads to unlimitetd lenght gains.
But can it be that after a certain time and some gains he will stop gaining due to tight liqs?In other words, if this guy is not changing his angle to downward hanging, he will never gain?

Dex, I would think that is not the most efficient tactic. It should be better, in the long run, to continously change angles when reaching this inflexion points. Divide and conquer.

I myself, need to start working the upper angles now. My LOT is at 6:00. When my LOT goes higher than 8:00 I will resume BTC. I really miss my initial BTC feeling and soreness. No matter how much I like (or not) OTS, I will come back to BTC when I reach 8:00. Except of course if I am really gaining fast.

Lig stretch is easier, I believe. I wish I could focus on that properly again.

Chi said:

Dex, I would think that is not the most efficient tactic. It should be better, in the long run, to continously change angles when reaching this inflexion points. Divide and conquer.

I myself, need to start working the upper angles now. My LOT is at 6:00. When my LOT goes higher than 8:00 I will resume BTC. I really miss my initial BTC feeling and soreness. No matter how much I like (or not) OTS, I will come back to BTC when I reach 8:00. Except of course if I am really gaining fast.

Lig stretch is easier, I believe. I wish I could focus on that properly again.

Click to expand...

Did you gain by lowering your LOT?If yes, how much.
What was your starting LOT?

Dex,

I am no expert hanger (LOL) but I been trying to get it right since April 03. I started at btc than later started at the upper angles. In this time of upper angle hanging I have seen a raise in my LOT. Last night it was actually a touch above 9 olcock and the tugback is heaps above 9 but almost is completely gone after 9 oclock when going downwards. What I understand of lot theory is that a hanger can hang back upwards at the higher angles to raise the lot then head back down to hit the ligs. Why not stay hanging at the upper angles until your LOT reaches about 11 11.30. Then with all the expereince you have in setting up your hanger and wrap you can then blast your way back down in the lower angles. You would then be like a hanger who starts with a high LOT. YOu know the type, the type of guy us low LOTTERS hated but have slowly learnt how to become.

GMJ

Dex,

I can´t really remember my starting LOT becouse I quited Penis Enlargement a couple years ago when the LOT theory had just appeared. But I know it was not 6 like now. Maybe around 8, but I´m not sure, I really can´t remember becouse I was quitting anyway and didn´t even put much thought to it.

Anyway, I have gained 1 inch in lenght total, and my LOT now is 6:00. So it was definately lowered as I gained.

I don´t think there are enough reports from people linking LOT changes to gains, as to make a good correlation, so don´t expect a formula or something like that... anyway, I would leave any such estimation to BIB.

dex,

>When in your opinion they should stop raising their LOTs? Can you give a lot number if you can judge this?<

No. Each guy will have to go by what he feels, the rate of gain, the rate of rise of LOT, etc. The main trigger to change angles is when there is no progress at the current angle. This means, if you are not gaining after a month or so, or your LOT stops rising, or you have a really hard time reaching fatigue, it is time to attach new tissues.

>In the quote beneath you said that working the upper angles with a high LOT, can lead to no gains because of tight liqs.<

The reason is, at some point, I can see a guy hanging at the upper angles, and the ligs taking some of the stress. The point is, if the ligs are taking any stress at the upper angles, then it is time to switch to the lower angles, which will stress the ligs much more effectively.

>Some people in the forums have the plan to hang the upper angles to raise their LOTs, for example to 10 o clock in order to hopefully gain easily trough downward hanging.
Do you think this makes sense? Is this raising to much?<

The concept makes perfect sense. It works. But I would not attach a specific number to LOT to trigger a change in hanging angles.

>If you think that this is not a good plan, do you think it is a waste of time to raise the LOT so far, for example to 10 o clock(because you might not gaining because of the tight liqs)?
Hope you understand my question.<

No, I do not understand the last question.

>You always said that almost everybody can gain by tunica stretching.
But now lets imagine a guy who is always hanging the upper angles, lets say the reason for this is because he likes it so much.
The common theory is now, that he will gain a lot over time because tunica work leads to unlimitetd lenght gains.
But can it be that after a certain time and some gains he will stop gaining due to tight liqs?In other words, if this guy is not changing his angle to downward hanging, he will never gain?<

I would not use the word never. But if a guy were able to stretch/grow his inner tunica enough, the ligs could begin to take some stress when hanging at the upper angles. As with anything, you should hang at the upper angles in moderation. When you no longer can feel or see progress, change the angle.

Bigger

I been Pe for apox.2 years.I gained 2 inchs in L. 1 inch in girth,lot 8.30.Question to Bib,should i still hang down.NOW 8x6 inchs