HCG Experiment

U

Ultra

0
Hi all,

Some background info:
24 years old, had delayed puberty at 17 with very little penile and testicular growth. Visited an endocrinologist a few years back, did me no good since it was for one, embarrassing but also he wasn't too worried or helpful, as I can easily get an erection and ejaculate.

Throughout the years I noticed every male relative in my family that I happened to see naked, were way bigger than me. This confirmed what I always suspected, that I have some form of hypogonadism.

After some (still ongoing) research I plan on gather some supplies and try the follow:

250-500iu of HCG 2-3/week, for 4 weeks

My questions to anyone with knowledge and experience in the matter - Is aromatisation of testosterone likely to happen even with these low dosages? If so is novalex or clomid more efficient in preventing this?

I'd appreciate any input, thanks.
 
Listen, if you think that your penis is small... your penis is small. If you see that you have a real reason to think that you do not have the needed hormones for your growth- only then take this is my advice. I had the absolutely same problem as you. At the age of 18-19 I was really short (still am, but I guess that my family are dwarfs rofl) and had 6x4,75 erect penis. I felt that not only was my penis small, but my height as well. Do you have any symptoms despite of feeling that your penis is small? Here it is all reversable! You can grow a lot here, believe me. There are thousands of people that have done it, you will do it too! The purpose of this answer was to ask you whether you have any other symptoms than "small penis". I would advise taking HCG only if you are sure that you have a serious hormone problem. I repeat, even if you feel that your penis is small- in matters of 7-8 weeks you can grow a lot!!!! Take your time to read around the site to see all the testominals and that would make you a believer. There is a forum called "Progress ..bla bla.." or "Pictureproof.. bla bla". The "..bla bla" means that I don't remember what was the forum's name exactly rofl. Now, answer my question and I will try to help you as much as I can, so you get the confidence of a destroyer! :)
 
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Ultra, at those doses and duration, little estrogenic side effects are likely to occur. Keep some nolvadex on hand just in case you notice sore nipples, etc., but skip the clomid since it can contribute to estrogenic effects. Best of luck.

Dford
 
Thanks zambro.
No male in my family, mums and dads side( cousins, a couple of uncles, and older bro) that i've seen naked have my problem. Puberty wasn't kind to me, late and incomplete.

I have done Penis Enlargement for 3 months with a little improvement on girth and I won't neglect my routine in favour of chemical pe. I will do both.
Plenty of members in bodybuilding forums have been on HCG with success in getting their testes back to normal size after Testosterone cycles. I will be carefull in my approach to it though.

Sounds good to me Dford, you've done it for bodybuilding purposes?
 
Ultra;563412 said:
Thanks zambro.
No male in my family, mums and dads side( cousins, a couple of uncles, and older bro) that i've seen naked have my problem. Puberty wasn't kind to me, late and incomplete.

I have done Penis Enlargement for 3 months with a little improvement on girth and I won't neglect my routine in favour of chemical pe. I will do both.
Plenty of members in bodybuilding forums have been on HCG with success in getting their testes back to normal size after Testosterone cycles. I will be carefull in my approach to it though.

Sounds good to me Dford, you've done it for bodybuilding purposes?
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I did use it for BB purposes and did my regular Penis Enlargement exercises too and I didn't notice any additional Penis Enlargement benefits from it. It will work very well to regain testicle size and reduce shrinkage and it works fast. I have a tight sac almost all day every day, except when using HCG. It's a good, safe product but increasingly hard to get these days. If you are well past puberty age (and it looks like you are) and didn't complete puberty, I think HCG and DHT or hormone replacement therapy would work wonders, but make sure to manage any unwanted side effects. You should see another urologist and have your hormone levels checked and he might put you on a regimen that includes some of these.
 
Excellent, many thanks for the info. All supplies ordered included some nolva.

Will start at 500iu EOD and may start nolva straight away as well at 20mg ED. If all checked OK by first or second week will increase dosage to 1000iu EOD.

All potential sides will be monitored very closely indeed. Thinking of ordering a hormonal panel test online (a tad expensive but worth it) and check levels of LH, FSH, Free T and Total T after 3 or 4 weeks, to be on the safe side.

Ultra
 
That should be fine for your 4 week cycle. I doubt you'll have any estrogenic sides but nolva has some positive benefits to LH and FSH as well. If you can manage it, get two of the panel tests so you can tell us what your levels are now and what they will be after the cycle. And also tell us about any growth!
 
Much appreciated for your input. About growth? Who knows, hoping for the best but expecting the worst (which is no growth at all).
But nothing to lose I guess. May go for 8 weeks if no or few sides.

Ultra
 
Hey Ultra, interesting post. I've been heavily looking into the ChemPenis Enlargement thing too, since I'm in a bit of a similar situation. I had some growth/medical issues early in life that I think contributed to me being size I'm not entirely into. Figured I'd register here since everyone is so accepting of the ChemPenis Enlargement avenue and trying out new ideas. When I can afford it, I'd certainly like to try out some things myself.

I'm curious though, are you just going to use HCG? Lots of people seem to experiment with things like DHT, IGF, HGH, etc when putting together a protocol. Was just wondering if you looked into that sort of stuff.
 
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Yeah just HCG. Since is widely used by bodybuilders and a lot of women looking into lose weight, it seems the way to go for me at least.

We're in the same boat it seems as I'm sure I didn't reach my genetic potential (see posts above) due to incomplete puberty I guess.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3214853/

This is a very interesting study and one could hope to have similar results but I'm keeeping my hopes down. Although it's at least worth a try.
 
Hey Atmospheric, I did answer to your post but don't know what happened to it as it was waiting approval by a mod.
 
Hey man, try posting it again. I had attempting to post a topic not too long ago and got the same thing. That never went through, but my post in here did instantly. Weird. Oh, and hey, where are you going to inject into? The CC or just somewhere where it'll be systematic?
 
Atmospheric;564396 said:
Hey man, try posting it again. I had attempting to post a topic not too long ago and got the same thing. That never went through, but my post in here did instantly. Weird. Oh, and hey, where are you going to inject into? The CC or just somewhere where it'll be systematic?
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I did try twice, try it once more.

HCG seems the right approach for me due to reduced puberty. Also seems the safest for various reasons.

I'm a bit reluctant in trying DHT but thought of it. Possible sides put me off , but since HCG raises LH production which in turn raises T production, DHT will be a consequence and so will Estradiol (hence adding novaldex).

We seem to be in the same boat as I'm sure I'm nowhere near my genetic potential. As I mentioned above, family members on both sides of the family are much bigger than me.

Could this HCG experiment trigger the 'rest of my growth' at my age? Words could fail me if it were to happen.
 
1st shot of 500iu done this morning IM. A slight feeling of blurry vision, so going to check if its normal.

Could anyone confirm if the hcg can have this effect that fast? It has only been 4 hours after the shot.
 
dickfordays;563520 said:
If you are well past puberty age (and it looks like you are) and didn't complete puberty, I think HCG and DHT or hormone replacement therapy would work wonders, but make sure to manage any unwanted side effects. You should see another urologist and have your hormone levels checked and he might put you on a regimen that includes some of these.
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http://www.wellnessmd.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=77

"Topical testosterone probably causes penile growth through systemic action, via IGF-1 [Laron Z.1998] and not merely through its local effect. [Jacobs SC, 1975.] Penile growth cessation is mediated by mechanisms other than down regulation of the androgen receptor.

Testosterone cream has been found effective in increasing the penis size in research with prepubertal boys with micropenis. [Klugo RC. 1970] Testosterone influences penile growth, possibly as a result of expansion of the shaft through the action of androgen receptors in the corpus [Bin-Abbas B, 1999, Godek JC, 1985].

What it does mean is that early administration of androgen to prepubertal male individuals with low serum or salivary testosterone [Rilling JK, 1996] can result in a longer penis or phallus in adulthood. [Baskin LS, 1997]

Men who have large penises show a rapid conversion of free T to DHT as measured by T/DHT ratio in their blood. Rapid conversion is a genetic trait indicated by amplified maleness early in life: increased body and beard hair, increased musculature, early male pattern baldness, short height (<5'8") and greater penile girth (>3.5" around) with length (>7"). A very strong sex drive, increased masturbation frequency, and early puberty are also associated with higher testosterone levels.

Research indicates that even in an adult male, penis growth is still possible with topical hormone application causing stimulation of the androgen receptors in the corpus cavernosa, the blood filled cavities along the shaft of the male penis."

I will make topical testosterone a must in my experiment! Testocreme, androgel, andractim - which one would be the question.

Anyone can vouch for any of these?
 
I tried andractim with no success, but it was well after I completed natural puberty. I do not think it does much good post-puberty but I think it could work wonders in your situation. I experienced no side effects from it either.
 
Wouldn't, HCG+Nolvadex+andractim = too much?

Don't want to mess with my own natural production. So when the gel arrives, inclined to do 250IU HCG 3x week, 20mg nolvadex, 2.5g andractim EOD

Your thoughts Dford?
 
I don't think that will be too much, they all work via different mechanisms and the HCG and the nolvadex promote your natural levels rather than inhibit them and the DHT will not reach high enough systemic levels to cause down-regulation. I think they will be fine together but just be mindful of sides, although they will be unlikely.
 
Quick update:

Injected 500iu thur/sat/mon, testes look a bit fuller and no sides as of yet. Uping the dose to 750iu as soon as the nolvadex arrives, plus 20mg/day of the latter.

Have ordered caverject instead of the andractim( budjet only allows one for now). A cheap [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98]penis pump[/words] is on the way too, to use it before or during the pge1 injections.

Protocol will be:
-750 iu - 3x week + 20 mg/day nolva
-2.5mcg/5mcg caverject 3x week
-Initiate pumping routine

Ultra
 
Much appreciated that you're keeping this updated. Really interested in seeing how it goes. Are you holding off on injecting the HCH until the PGE1 arrives? Wasn't sure with how you worded it.
 
*UPDATE*

I have discontinued the HCG. The amount being injected was on the low side and apart from some testicular fullness, dont think it was achieving much. So I've decided to go a different route and got a few supplies...

In my possession atm:
*Bathmate (Using everyday for the past 4 days. Great pump! If only my flacid was that big without it...)
*HGH (am curently doing 2-3iu 5on 2 off)
*Andractim (Used twice so nothing to report
*HCG (Unopened 5000 iu)
*Tamoxifen tablets (unused)

To be ordered this week or already ordered:

* Testosterone Enanthate 250mg/ml
*Ru 58841 Solution (I'm prone to MPB and have a bit of temple recession. Also have nizoral 2% which I already been using)

Wow never thought I'd go the steroid route, and the thing is I'm not even interested in the muscular gains from it, since I already have decent genetics muscular-wise (not bragging). With a steroid cycle I'm hoping to perhaps induce a second puberty so to speak and see if I can complete what mother nature hasn't and achieve my genetic potential.
 
After some research (on going) the cycle would probably go as:

0-6 months HGH 3iu 5 on 2 off
1-10 weeks 125-250 mg Test E (1 injection)
6-10 weeks HCH 2x500 iu/week


PCT:
11 week Nolva (tamoxidfen) 20x2 ED
12-14 weeks Nolva 20mg ed

The amount of Test E isn't much so to the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] members here experienced with gear:

1.How does this looks? Any modifications/opinions ?
2. Should I avoid using andractim (twice a week) while on cycle?
3. Going to use RU solution (scalp androgen blocker). should I also look into finesteride while on cycle to make sure hair loss is kept to an absolute minimum, zero if possible?

Lastly, I've got an appointment tomorrow with my doctor to schecule some blood tests asap. It's only a mild steroid cycle, but I've never went that route before so I want to be on the safe side of things and keep risks to a minimum.
 
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If you are prone to MPB, be careful with this. The andractim is probably not going to affect MPB as much as the test E will, but I would not recommend taking finasteride preventatively because if it is working to prevent hair loss, you will have to stay on it indefinitely or you will shed all that it spared while on it. Are you currently experiencing MPB? If not, go through with the cycle but watch for shedding and if it occurs then start the fin but be prepared to stay on it. I think RU is safe to start on at any time, I'm looking into mixing some up myself. Once MPB starts, you can't turn it off and I believe gear takes your genetic starting point and moves if forward. I didn't think I was prone to MPB but it kicked in strong over the last couple months and I'm way too young. I started fin/nizoral/rogaine regimen right away to try to stop it in it's tracks. If it keeps up at this rate, I'll be fully bald in 6 months, it came on fast and strong. I thought I didn't care much about my hair until it started falling fast, so evaluate the pros and cons carefully.
 
This mpb issue is on my mind all the time, am a nw2 with a bit of recession at the temples. Physically i take it after my grandfather... he got bald in his 20's but was also hung like a horse. My situation? The exact opposite, still hair but small bellow. I can only conclude that low levels of DHT preserved my hair till now. What's confusing is that i did have acne during puberty and experienced the broadening of the shoulders etc.

Whats your reasoning behind Andractim not affecting hair as much as Test e? Will the gel have mostly a topical effect, whereas test e will increase dht levels systemically? 125mg weekly doesn't seem much compared to 500-750 that you see some bodybuilders on.

Sorry to hear about your hair troubles. Have you also looked into CB for hair loss, its been suggested that may be even better than RU, as long as they can find a suitable vehicle. There's a lab right now testing it in a nanosome solution. Members at hair loss forums waiting for it to pass a stability test to get on it.
 
DHT, is it not consistent with hair loss?
 
Haven't pulled the trigger on the Test yet...

Deciding on:

Option1: HGH & 125mg Test e for 10 weeks
Option2: HGH & HCG (2500 iu /week) for 8 weeks

Dford, you believe hcg will be less harsh on hair? Both options will give me testosterone beyond my current levels..
 
Ultra- I have looked at CB, I'm still new to the hair loss stuff but I've heard good things about it. HCG will be less harsh on your hair than test E. HCG will only make your body produce it's own test at it's maximum capacity but test E will introduce more test exogenously than your body would produce on it's own. More test means more DHT. Both options will elevate your current levels, HCG will bring you to the high side of normal levels but E will take you beyond that, even at that low dose. If you choose the E, you should absolutely still take the HCG to prevent shutting down you own production even further, something like 250iu every second or third day starting around week 2 or 3 of the cycle and continuing for month after your last E dose. I haven't heard of HCG causing hair loss on it's own probably because it only takes you to within normal test levels, but I can see that if a person had very low test AND was heavily predisposed to MPB, even the increase to normal levels might have an impact.

DLD- DHT is certainly related to hair loss but I think andractim will result in much less circulating DHT than taking exagenous test.
 
Thanks Dford.
After consideration for my own worries and your advise, I'm gonna go down the HCG way:

-10,000iu have been ordered. 2500iu weekly -- m/w/f 1000/500/1000
-Box of tamoxifen already on hand
-RU58841 arriving early next week

Depending on how this goes after 4weeks, will either go for another 4weeks or perhaps persue the test e route after all. Also my blood test has been scheduled for tomorrow.

Ultra
 
Emulate to a certain extent what happens during puberty by having high levels T and extra hgh. Hopefully this would give me what my genetics had in store for me and complete what was started.
 
To dford (appreciate the valuable info btw) or anyone who could answer:

How likely are my androgen receptors to be downregulated? Anything that can be done to upregulate them, that is apart from finesteride... Would dmso/paba help in this?

An upregulation of my receptors would maximise gains, if any.
 
Ultra;570771 said:
To dford (appreciate the valuable info btw) or anyone who could answer:

How likely are my androgen receptors to be downregulated? Anything that can be done to upregulate them, that is apart from finesteride... Would dmso/paba help in this?

An upregulation of my receptors would maximise gains, if any.
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I looked into this pretty extensively when I tried DHT gel. From what I could find, it is thought that DHT is largely responsible for penis growth during puberty and that DHT receptors are down-regulated after puberty and that's why penis growth stops, but there is no definitive data. Some say down-regulation does not occur and that other mechanisms are at play and some say that it does occur but it is not what's responsible for growth stopping. I wasn't able to come to any sort of conclusion either way, but I did notice that on all the forums, those who responded the best (or at all) to DHT gel were always younger guys. I didn't respond at all and I was in my late 20's when I tried it, which leads me to believe that there must be some correlation between DHT and penis size during puberty (but this is already known). I don't think dmso/paba will have any effect on receptors but it may help in other ways, like collagen de-linking/softening, but I haven't tried it. I researched things that might have effects on receptors and there are a few ways that receptor density changes. One way is to alter gene expression for the receptors, via growth factors or similar (like VEGF, IGF, HGH, etc.) but not all types of receptors respond to these in the same way or to the same extent even if we could target these where we would like. Another way is to use things that interact with the receptors (like agonists or antagonists) and these can cause either up-regulation or down-regulation (desensitization) depending on the receptor type and location. Sometimes excess agonist can cause down-regulation, like when a person develops a tolerance to a drug of that nature, and sometimes it can cause up-regulation as a compensatory mechanism. The same goes with antagonists. My conclusions are that there is not enough data, especially in regards to the penis, to come up with a good regimen. I tried Igf-1 lr3 for a while with PGE-1 and I think there is potential there but the PGE-1 is painful and it's hard to come up with consistent legit sources. Sorry for the rambling, hopefully some of it will help. I think in your unique situation, increasing androgens may help you more than others just keep an eye on the side effects. I think the HCG is a good, safer starting point and you can always try to escalate if from there if that doesn't work.
 
Ultra;570771 said:
To dford (appreciate the valuable info btw) or anyone who could answer:

How likely are my androgen receptors to be downregulated? Anything that can be done to upregulate them, that is apart from finesteride... Would dmso/paba help in this?

An upregulation of my receptors would maximise gains, if any.
Click to expand...

I looked into this pretty extensively when I tried DHT gel. From what I could find, it is thought that DHT is largely responsible for penis growth during puberty and that DHT receptors are down-regulated after puberty and that's why penis growth stops, but there is no definitive data. Some say down-regulation does not occur and that other mechanisms are at play and some say that it does occur but it is not what's responsible for growth stopping. I wasn't able to come to any sort of conclusion either way, but I did notice that on all the forums, those who responded the best (or at all) to DHT gel were always younger guys. I didn't respond at all and I was in my late 20's when I tried it, which leads me to believe that there must be some correlation between DHT and penis size during puberty (but this is already known). I don't think dmso/paba will have any effect on receptors but it may help in other ways, like collagen de-linking/softening, but I haven't tried it. I researched things that might have effects on receptors and there are a few ways that receptor density changes. One way is to alter gene expression for the receptors, via growth factors or similar (like VEGF, IGF, HGH, etc.) but not all types of receptors respond to these in the same way or to the same extent even if we could target these where we would like. Another way is to use things that interact with the receptors (like agonists or antagonists) and these can cause either up-regulation or down-regulation (desensitization) depending on the receptor type and location. Sometimes excess agonist can cause down-regulation, like when a person develops a tolerance to a drug of that nature, and sometimes it can cause up-regulation as a compensatory mechanism. The same goes with antagonists. My conclusions are that there is not enough data, especially in regards to the penis, to come up with a good regimen. I tried Igf-1 lr3 for a while with PGE-1 and I think there is potential there but the PGE-1 is painful and it's hard to come up with consistent legit sources. Sorry for the rambling, hopefully some of it will help. I think in your unique situation, increasing androgens may help you more than others just keep an eye on the side effects. I think the HCG is a good, safer starting point and you can always try to escalate if from there if that doesn't work.
 
Lol ramble all you want pal, great info. I've been researching also and even studies on puBathmateed can't seem to get to a definite conclusion.

I did experiment with pge1 for about 2 weeks, still have some left so may throw it in to the mix, once in a while.
I'm trying hgh and have some more ordered from a legit source so hopefully that will aid in any gains...we'll see!
 
I didn't respond at all and I was in my late 20's when I tried it, which leads me to believe that there must be some correlation between DHT and penis size during puberty
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What was the duration/frequency and dosage of your experimentation with DHT gel? More importantly, have you noticed any hair loss while on it?
 
Ultra;570389 said:
Thanks Dford.
After consideration for my own worries and your advise, I'm gonna go down the HCG way:

-10,000iu have been ordered. 2500iu weekly -- m/w/f 1000/500/1000
-Box of tamoxifen already on hand
-RU58841 arriving early next week

Depending on how this goes after 4weeks, will either go for another 4weeks or perhaps persue the test e route after all. Also my blood test has been scheduled for tomorrow.

Ultra
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Careful with high dosages of hCG for too long, it can desensitize your leydig cells, also I'd consider doing Test E for no shorter than 10 weeks, 14 being max, seeing as the compound starts to activate around week 5-6. Also, you should add in some hMG along with your hCG for balanced FSH levels and overall improved hormone regulation and wellness. One last thing, using hCG alone without Test as a base can be slightly suppressive of your HPTA, so I wouldn't advise it unless you suffer from clinical hypogonadism related to naturally low LH production. Good luck and read some more before fucking with your hormones, it can do more harm than good.
 
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Ultra;570850 said:
What was the duration/frequency and dosage of your experimentation with DHT gel? More importantly, have you noticed any hair loss while on it?
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I applied it twice daily I think (whatever the recommended protocol is) and I didn't have any hair loss at all. I went through almost all of both tubes so the duration was probably a couple months.
 
Ultra;570850 said:
What was the duration/frequency and dosage of your experimentation with DHT gel? More importantly, have you noticed any hair loss while on it?
Click to expand...

I applied it twice daily I think (whatever the recommended protocol is) and I didn't have any hair loss at all. I went through almost all of both tubes so the duration was probably a couple months.
 
sizerp;570864 said:
Careful with high dosages of hCG for too long, it can desensitize your leydig cells, also I'd consider doing Test E for no shorter than 10 weeks, 14 being max, seeing as the compound starts to activate around week 5-6. Also, you should add in some hMG along with your hCG for balanced FSH levels and overall improved hormone regulation and wellness. One last thing, using hCG alone without Test as a base can be slightly suppressive of your HPTA, so I wouldn't advise it unless you suffer from clinical hypogonadism related to naturally low LH production. Good luck and read some more before fucking with your hormones, it can do more harm than good.
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I disagree, the test E will suppress the HPTA, the HCG supports it. The leydig cells can become desensitized after extended exposure, however. I think Ultra may have hypogonadism, I think he had his levels checked at one point, correct me if I'm wrong Ultra.
 
Careful with high dosages of hCG for too long, it can desensitize your leydig cells, also I'd consider doing Test E for no shorter than 10 weeks, 14 being max, seeing as the compound starts to activate around week 5-6. Also, you should add in some hMG along with your hCG for balanced FSH levels and overall improved hormone regulation and wellness. One last thing, using hCG alone without Test as a base can be slightly suppressive of your HPTA, so I wouldn't advise it unless you suffer from clinical hypogonadism related to naturally low LH production. Good luck and read some more before fucking with your hormones, it can do more harm than good
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Your advice was taken in. I don't intend to go o HCG longer than 4 weeks to start with, @2500iu max per week. I did look into Hmg but its expensive as hell... Still waiting on the HGH but because its from a reliable source it'll be worth the wait as I know I'll be getting the real deal.

I disagree, the test E will suppress the HPTA, the HCG supports it. The leydig cells can become desensitized after extended exposure, however. I think Ultra may have hypogonadism, I think he had his levels checked at one point, correct me if I'm wrong Ultra.
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Haven't been diagnosed as having clinical hypogonadism per se. But The signs have always been there -- Delayed and incomplete puberty:

-Have a very youthful appearance (turning 25 soon but can pass for an 18 yr old)
-Impaired growth of the penis and testicles (would say between stages 3-4 of the tanner stages)
-Some lack of deepening of the voice

It's obvious that I've had Low levels of T (possibly from a direct consequence of low production of LH?) during puberty. That or i'd be strongly inclined to believe the problem could be in a partial deficiency of the convertion of T to DHT.
 
Ultra;571006 said:
Your advice was taken in. I don't intend to go o HCG longer than 4 weeks to start with, @2500iu max per week. I did look into Hmg but its expensive as hell... Still waiting on the HGH but because its from a reliable source it'll be worth the wait as I know I'll be getting the real deal.



Haven't been diagnosed as having clinical hypogonadism per se. But The signs have always been there -- Delayed and incomplete puberty:

-Have a very youthful appearance (turning 25 soon but can pass for an 18 yr old)
-Impaired growth of the penis and testicles (would say between stages 3-4 of the tanner stages)
-Some lack of deepening of the voice

It's obvious that I've had Low levels of T (possibly from a direct consequence of low production of LH?) during puberty. That or i'd be strongly inclined to believe the problem could be in a partial deficiency of the convertion of T to DHT.
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For HGH it will only work in a spray under your tongue or in needle form. Be careful not to take too much hgh as could cause diabetes and other unwanted effects down the road. Make sure your hgh level has been checked and that you dont over do it. cheers
 
Ultra;571006 said:
Your advice was taken in. I don't intend to go o HCG longer than 4 weeks to start with, @2500iu max per week. I did look into Hmg but its expensive as hell... Still waiting on the HGH but because its from a reliable source it'll be worth the wait as I know I'll be getting the real deal.



Haven't been diagnosed as having clinical hypogonadism per se. But The signs have always been there -- Delayed and incomplete puberty:

-Have a very youthful appearance (turning 25 soon but can pass for an 18 yr old)
-Impaired growth of the penis and testicles (would say between stages 3-4 of the tanner stages)
-Some lack of deepening of the voice

It's obvious that I've had Low levels of T (possibly from a direct consequence of low production of LH?) during puberty. That or i'd be strongly inclined to believe the problem could be in a partial deficiency of the convertion of T to DHT.
Click to expand...

For HGH it will only work in a spray under your tongue or in needle form. Be careful not to take too much hgh as could cause bloated stomach and other unwanted effects down the road. Make sure your hgh level has been checked and that you don't over dose youself. cheers
 
Thought that the doctor ordered a full hormone panel (FSH ,LH, free T, serum T etc) but that wasn't the case. It got a lot of info on my kidney functions and what not and the only significant hormone on it was my serum T @ 33.3 nmol/L [9.3-34.5].

For the more knowledgeable minds on the subject, would this alone indicate I don't have hypogonadism? Could the issue be in my conversion of T into DHT or/and a problem with growth hormone?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/puBathmateed/6406387

The response of genital and gonadal growth during the first year of treatment with human growth hormone (hGH) was studied in 20 boys with isolated growth hormone deficiency (IGHD) (11 of hereditary origin and 9 sporadic cases). Prior to hGH treatment, 13 of the 15 prepubertal boys had a penis length below the normal mean, 3 of which were more than 2 SDS below the mean. The boys with hereditary IGHD had a greater deficit in penile size than did the sporadic cases. hGH treatment improved the penile length in all but two boys aged 14 and 15 yr, and led to growth up to normal size in the three boys with very small penises. Three of the hereditary IGHD patients had subnormal testes and all of the other prepubertal boys had a testicular volume in the normal range. hGH treatment increased testicular size, particularly in the prepubertal boys. Of three additional untreated adults with IGHD, one had a subnormal-size penis and two had penises of low-normal size. Our findings constitute further evidence that hGH deficiency is associated with decreased penile growth and, to some extent, decreased testicular size, and that hHG treatment improves the growth of the genitalia and gonads. Since these effects were also observed in prepuberty, it seems that not all the hGH or, rather, somatomedin effect on sex organs is androgen mediated.
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Wondering where to go from here. With dht gel, hcg and hgh I should be covering all bases for a careful, conducted experiment. I need to get myself right!
 
IM not sure myself maybe someone else could shed some light as Im not a expert. But I believe it could be the conversion of T into DHT or/and a problem with growth hormone. Like I said try to get your HGH levels tested so you can take a accurate dose.And I couldn't see dht gel, hcg and hgh being a problem as long as your careful and don't drink liquor or do or take any kind of drugs that could affect what your taking (perscription or not unless told so by a expert).I would eat a healthy diet with some flaxseed grounded up and doing Penis Enlargement exercises with this treatment as well as I don't think you'd see much gains if any without any Penis Enlargement Best of luck!
 
Cheers GirthGains, I've been doing my research on hGH and been lurking around bodybuilding forums. There's a few threads of guys who claim to have grown a bit after their cycle and or with hgh. It only seems to happen to a very few, but i suspect it does happen to those who didn't quite got every bit of growth that their genetic make up had for them.

Got my HCG delivered and refrigerated. Waiting on the HGH and the RU hair solution... When all supplies are here will make a decision on what protocol to follow.

Andractim + HGH could be my first approach.
 
good stuff this sounds exciting! keep us posted! keep in mind to use hgh and stuff before any of it goes bad as I believe hgh degrades rather quickly if I remember correctly
 
Look at SHBG Levels to see where you might be in regards to Free T and also check your prolactin levels. And yes hCG without test can be slightly suppressive on its own to the HPTA.
 
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