some pe physiology

WaxN

WaxN

0
Penis Enlargement
"The science behind it"

We have poured over recent journals and reports and we have learned that recent studies conducted by scientist D.J. Millward have shown that muscle cells (including the ‘corpora cells’ within the penis) are surrounded by thin sheaths of connective tissue: the endoysium, perimysium, and epimysium.

These layers can be pictured as exceptionally tough layers of plastic wrap snugly surrounding each cell (and groups of cells). In order for each cell to enlarge, the tough, fibrous connective tissue surrounding the cell must be stretched to a larger diameter. Think of these layers as ‘girdles’ that restrict cell expansion.

The human body responds; grows, develops, and adapts; to physical stimulation and exercise. The tendons, ligaments, muscle fibers, and cellular tissue stretch and heal to adapt to new stressors on them (Berne, Levy, Koeppen, & Stanton, 1998). This is the innate physiology of the human body, to grow and adapt to change, and all tissue in the body responds to the various stressors exerted on it.

Penis enlargement programs rely upon this innate ability of muscle fibers to stretch and grow to accommodate exercise, along with the tendons and ligaments. However, the penis is not made up of muscle tissue, but it is affected by the ligaments attaching it to the pubic bone. In addition, the erectile tissue, corpora cavernosa, is a spongy tissue containing distensible blood spaces, which increases in size when blood is pumped into it (Martini, 1998).

The corpora cavernosa in the male penis is similar in construction to the pore cells in marine life called sponges. Repeatedly stretching the pore cells in a live sponge will cause it's absorption pores to expand and heal in this expanded state to adapt to the minute tearing of the cellular walls of the pores, thereby making the pore cells larger and more capable of absorbing more water and nutrients.

The corpora cavernosa is a live tissue which responds similarly in the manner of a sponge (Martini, 1998); therefore, continuous stretching and healing should cause the distensible blood spaces to increase their ability to absorb more blood, as a sponge does with water, and thereby increase actual size of the erectile tissue.

For a bodybuilder, the blood rushing into the muscle during resistance weight training (also known as "the pump") stretches the layers, forcing them to rebuild in slightly larger and larger shapes. Now, to increase the size of your penis, you must somehow stretch the connective layers that surround your erectile tissue.

The external exercises men perform with natural penis enlargement programs stimulate the connective layers of the penis to achieve, after repeated sessions, permanent increase in size and strength. These exercises do not cause new cells to appear – simply, pre-existing cells are forced to increase in size a small amount each time the exercises are performed. During the rest period between the exercises day, your body will rebuild itself a little bigger and stronger and with time and persistence you will begin to see measurable results.

To understand the basics behind penis enlargement, one must understand the basic structural anatomy of the penis, how erection occurs, and the mechanics of how penile tissue can be strengthened and enlarged.
 
WOW, that has to be one of the best articles concerning medicine and Penis Enlargement I've read in like forever!
 
I know what you mean SWM. All we've ever heard from the medical community is a close minded "NPenis Enlargement is only a temporary fix, that you only end up bleeding, gains are minimal, etc. etc. etc., etc.". Its refreshing to see that our methods are starting to be accepted within a professional community. Only 20 more years before Penis Enlargement goes mainstream fella's!!!
 
Hey WaxN, do you have the actual athour's names and the title (preferably with journal of publication) so that we can reference this properly. Makes the case for Penis Enlargement that much stronger and accurate reference details only helps.
 
I'd like to add to that something that I found and posted over at thunders place:

"Infrared heat increases the extensibility of collagen tissues. Tissues heated to 45C (112F) and then stretched exhibit a nonelastic residual elongation of about 0.5 to 0.9 percent that persists after the stretch is removed. This does not occur in these same tissues when stretched at normal tissue temperature. Thus 20 stretching sessions can produce a 10 – 18% increase in length in tissues heated and stretched."

This in combination with the exercises has to be a good thing?
 
The protein collagen is the major component in structural tissue in the body. Are you implying that even skeletal muscles act this way? I never have to work out after applying heat and stretching a few times? Or what about the ligs? Is this true with them?

The effect is only temporary. I wish it were that easy.
 
The site I pulled that from was related to athritis/joint pain etc. It was talking about increasing range of movement, so I didn't read it as skeletal muscle primarily (perhaps fascia?), since it is elastic by nature, where as Type I collagen fibres are very dense and inelastic.

I made a rapid (0.25" in 5 days) gain after applying this, but then nothing at all in the following week. To me that was very significant since in my Entire Penis Enlargement history (a patchy 2 years), I'd only ever made 0.25" (making a total now of 0.5").

I don't have any science to back this up, I don't even have much anecdotal evidence. I just thought that stretching these tough fibers to encourage growth might be a lot more effective if you can stretch the 'framework' onto which the growth/repair occurs(?)
 
So were you doing just tunica stretches, or both tunica and ligs after applying the heat? Think I'll go do my stretching routine in the hot tub later.

-ItsElectric
 
Pulling from the glans straight out, and in circular motions. I was using a heat pad, which is not the best shape to get heat to the ligs if it's wrapped around the shaft. A bit of thought could make a 'penis heat pad' that you could leave in place for the stretches, but I would have thought any heat source would do. To be honest I found that the rice sock was better, but it goes from too hot to handle to not warm enough far too quickly. The pad has a trigger switch that allows more control.

Has anyone used one of those flax seed pads?
 
Very interesting stuff. I used to use a heating pad for hours before and after my workouts. I made incredible initial gains, not saying it was because of this but maybe intersting to look into.

-DLD
 
The reason why is on the cellular level. Heat will allow the individual cells to hypertrophy with less stress. Again I say this isnt permanent. It would have to be continued indefinitely. Without the proliferation of cells then the hypertrophied cells will regain its former size over time. Or its possible they might die from lack of needed nutrients to maintain its size.
 
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Collagen is known for having a very poor blood supply (hence it's tendancy to be whiteish compared to say skeletal muscle, and why tendon injuries take so long to heal). So I guess your nutrient starvation point would be very valid. However, applied heat and lots of forced/nightly erections should both help towards this goal I would have thought. Perhaps that is why people using viagra or similar reports quicker gains(?)
 
The cells in the penis feed off of one thing and one thing only. This is DHT (Rc) or T (Rc) Well I guess that two things..Once inside the nucleus it become DHT/T (Rn). Without one of those then the cell dies and becomes scar tissue. If you look any further than the cellular level then you are not achieving growth.

The thing is that heat would allow the enzymes to bind at a much greater rate as well as the AR. It is possible that the cells hypertrophy and then divide due to better DHT/T (Rc) binding rate.

This is the simple explanation of this. It is much more complex than I will get into right now. The difference between scar tissue and growth will depend of this.
 
I would like to add that cortisol is commonly known to break down muscle but did you know that it lowers Testosterone and slows collagen formation?

On top of this, it acts in some ways to lower blood flow to extremities. It may be the closest thing to an anti GH there is. Maybe you should look more into that?
 
I've read a thread recently somewhere (I think it was about the Uli thing) where he mentioned that he got some of his best gains whilst being hypocalorific.

Is it reasonable to assume that that would also reduce collagen formation? I had assumed (yes, I know) that encouraging collagen deposition was the aim, but now I'm not so sure - at least not for the short term if we were to cycle (stretch cycle then growth/repair cycle for example).
 
There is a fine line there. Collagen increases with age in the penis. This is linked to lower levels of T and DHT. The way I see it is that collagen is the building block for smooth muscle. You need it but not too much.

Too much collagen will lead to scar tissue. Ideally you would want more smooth muscle than the unfinished version. But, the info on this is few and far apart. So I cant say for certain.

I could be wrong about the collagen/smooth muscle relationship in general. I just have had a seriously hard time finding info pertaining to this. I am beginning to wonder if science even knows.

There isnt one answer here, there is a combination of a thousand variables.
 
I should say at this point that I am completely unqualified in these matters, so anything ridiculous about these thoughts is simply ignorance on my part rather than alleged fact

I was working on the (again) assumption that collagen was the building block, and something else (hormones?) was the architect. *If* that analogy holds true, then too much collagen wouldn't be and issue, if it was merely surplus to requirements and therefore not used.

Another area I have confusion with is where the fibers are in alignment with the direction of stress they tend to be stronger, which they do as an adaption to stress. Yet, I've also read that highly cross linked fibers are less flexible. I'm having a hard time deciding which we want to happen whilst Penis Enlargement is still a work in progress.

I think possibly we would want to limit collagen deposition (or prevent extreme deposition at least) in order to be able to continue gains, without hitting a level or torsional strength that cannot be overcome without doing damage to peripheral tissues. If for example it became necessary to hang 50lbs in order to make progress, progress would effectively be over, due to the body's successful adaptation over its environment. Perhaps this is where change in routine/shock routines etc can keep the body guessing?
 
Yes, I agree except for the level of collagen/smooth muscle. Collagen can not react to stimuli as smooth muscle does. The more collagen produced would effectively limit the relaxation/contraction effect seen in smooth muscle.
 
Now I'm wondering what smooth muscle actually is. I thought it was involuntary muscle, and that collagen was intermixed with elastin. Could you clarify where my understanding is going off road?

Thanks
 
Originally posted by Shiver
Another area I have confusion with is where the fibers are in alignment with the direction of stress they tend to be stronger, which they do as an adaption to stress. Yet, I've also read that highly cross linked fibers are less flexible. I'm having a hard time deciding which we want to happen whilst Penis Enlargement is still a work in progress.
Click to expand...

Well, for the tunica this isn't really an issue since it consists of two layers with the fibers oriented at right angles against each other (one is the limitation fro girth, the other for length):

"The tunica albuginea of the penis(above) consists of two fibro-elastic connective tissue layers, an inner circular and an outer longitudinal. The inner circular connective tissue layer serves to contain the erectile tissue's diameter during erection. [...] The outer longitudinal layer is present to regulate the length of the expanding penis and it extends from the glans to the proximal crura of the penis where it inserts into the pubic ramus." (link)
 
Good find. Answers some questions for me that I had.

I would definitely look into an anti cortisol. It looks very promising as a Penis Enlargement supplement.
 
The better these theories sound, the less faith I have in them. We're all just groping in the dark. Few here has the expertise - and none has the facilities and/or resources to properly test these theories....but they do sound good.
I, for one, have mostly given up trying to play doctor. I did this mostly in the beginning, when the gains were sparse. Now I focus more of my time on the actual workouts.
 
I really dont have any true answers here. My studies have be only on the androgen receptors and the cellular level mechinisms. Beyond that, I am lost. Way too much info to go through.
 
This doesnt mean at all that I believe that DHT alone will grow the penis. In engineered SMC cyclic strain cause cell proliferation in the presents of Type 1 collagen and serum.



"Studies using standard two-dimensional
cell culture confirmed that SMC response to cyclic
mechanical strain was dependent on the molecules to
which they adhered. In serum free medium, cells
adherent to fibronectin or vitronectin exhibited an
increased growth rate when exposed to cyclic strain,
while cells adherent to collagen did not respond to the
mechanical stimuli. Once again, cells adherent to
surfaces initially coated with any of the molecules
(fibronectin, vitronectin, or collagen) exhibited an
enhanced growth rate following mechanical
stimulation when cultured in serum containing
medium."

http://asme.pinetec.com/bio1999/data/pdfs/a0048100.pdf


Thats if anyone else can understand it. I have problems myself with interpreting the method of strain. It seems like the ECM means everything.
 
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I meant to say serum meant everything. This could actually help make Penis Enlargement more of a scientifically provable and safe to do. So I have been kind of hesitant to post it but I thought maybe a debate could happen on how this could possibly correlate to Penis Enlargement.
 
The problem with that study is that it's in vitro and that the so-called "mechanical stress" is actually electrically induced. Makes it hard to transfer to an in vivo situation. Plus, the overall statement here seems to be that the increase in tensile strength is due to an increase in the total number of cells which would mean that hyperplasia had occured. If I have my head on straight that has never been proven under normal conditions in humans.

If this actually is how the tissues respond to mechanical stress then we can all expect very limited gains as the "toughness" of the ligaments and tunica would increase radically with the kind of stress we use (assuming that the stress we use is analogous to the stress they used which is doubtful).
 
Good points Ebon.... There are more studies where the strain is induced in other ways. I believe that the tensile strength does increase with the workouts (see hanging). I dont believe this would limit gains, more or less it would mean a change in attack.

Hyperplasia is a common occurrence in smooth muscle tissues. Do a search and youll see this is apart of a normal process of regeneration and growth. I dont know where you guys get that at. Thats the way it grew in the first place.

If you would like to see more of a selection of studies then I can post more. Or do a search on: SMC stress serum. Youll find a bunch or recent ones using various methods of strain.
 
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Ebon, I believe we are chasing each other around here. Maybe a cut and paste to keep both forums up to date may be in order.

This is really a debate. I studied this quite awhile before releasing it. But, it is very possible that I might have missed something. This is why I need you guys to help me here.
 
Originally posted by 8 isn't enough
Hyperplasia is a common occurrence in smooth muscle tissues. Do a search and youll see this is apart of a normal process of regeneration and growth. I dont know where you guys get that at. Thats the way it grew in the first place.
Click to expand...

It's true that that's the way it grew in the first place. My question was more about if it happens in adult humans. I took my clue on this from the research on skeletal muscle though so there might be substantial differences. (There are theories about hyperplasia in skeletal muscle and it has been experimentally proven in rabbits but I have yet to see the results of a human study that has revealed hyperplasia. The added muscle as an effect of "maturation" of sattelite cells has been well-documented however.)
 
We may not be able to grow with androgens alone but from this study, I think this is what is happening to us as we stretch. There are still androgen receptors in the penis. I can prove that as well.
They give topical DHT to ED patients with a good rate of recovery.

I would hope that if this is proved to be correct then we can keep it in the Penis Enlargement community.
 
Some excellent input here. I'm convinced there is a solution here waiting to be found. Does anybody know what actually occurs post pubescence that dictates that we stop growing? Is it a non reversible action, or simply an equilibrium of active variables?

Maybe we could just take Myostat and do nothing?:) (joking)
 
The solution is to look at all the variables to growth. There must be everything needed for growth present. You cant treat it like a tendon because it isnt a tendon. It is a delicate mix of smooth muscle and collagen. Growth is only achieve when the smooth muscle is expanded.
 
I need to suBathmateit myself as a volunteer to a laboratory. There I will do my hanging routine as I currently do except, I will have a team of research analysts poking and prodding at me. LOL. I hang weights a total time of 4 hours a day...15-20 minute sessions over the day...6 days a week...my "off day" is one hour total hang time. I use heat via a hot rice sock placed on my lower penis shaft and groin area where the ligaments are. I use this heat for the first 10 minutes of the first 8 sets or so every day. I've been doing this religiously since re-starting Penis Enlargement (after off and on Penis Enlargement for over 3 years) about 2 months ago. I have gained 3/4" in flaccid stretched length, non bone pressed AND bone pressed erect length in this same time frame. So, these are not the infamous "newbie gains" so many guys see when first starting Penis Enlargement. I attribute these gains to my religious use of heat and, of course my hanging schedule. I would like to think I would not have had the same results had I not used the heat like I have. Of course, I have no team of research analysts living with me in my humble abode to prove this. So...perhaps some more questions need to be added here. What really contributes to gains? Heating the tissues to allow them to become more "elastic" and more easily stretched? The total time the stress or resistance is applied to the tissues? The amount of resistance applied to the tissues? The amount of resistance applied over time? Or, is it that, the more time the tissues are stressed WITH heat applied that will allow better growth potential? I like to think it's the last question that makes the most sense to me. Of course I say this based on my personal experience so far. What about the various tribes in Africa and other parts of the world where the men practice a more primitive form of weight hanging to elongate their penises? Do you really think they put so much thought and research into all this stuff? Hell no...they just hang rocks off their penises and, their penises over time, get longer. Granted some of these tribes engage in these practices for "religious reasons" and, are actually deliberately making themselves impotent. I dont recal what Arab tribe it is that hangs rocks from their penises for the sole purpose of mutilating the penis and making it unusable for sexual purposes as part of their religion....saw it on the Discovery channel I believe. Hell who knows.....maybe I'm just a derranged lunatic in a straight jacket in a padded cell somewhere imagining all of this? I think some of you guys who spend hours out of the month (literally) debating, calculating, and planning out which form of Penis Enlargement might work best for you and the masses...could better apply that time and, in turn, be making better gains. Of course I know some guys would rather spend their time trying to figure out or actually guestimate would be a better term for it what might work best. I was chatting on the Thundersplace forum chat with ....Hobby I believe it was....and, I made the remark to him....." ya know man...isnt it funny how we come up with all these theories and ideas as to what 'might' work best as far as enlarging our penises goes....acting like we actually KNOW that what we're proposing will work? When actually, for the most part there's no exact science to any of this stuff and we're just shooting in the dark hoping to hit a bullseye every once in a while?" Well, I'll leave you all to debate this now and mull over it and calculate and re-calculate and, spend more countless hours scanning the Internet for research articles to back up your own hypothesis and theories. I'll be making my penis bigger. Ta, ta!
 
Originally posted by ebon00
The problem with that study is that it's in vitro and that the so-called "mechanical stress" is actually electrically induced. Makes it hard to transfer to an in vivo situation. Plus, the overall statement here seems to be that the increase in tensile strength is due to an increase in the total number of cells which would mean that hyperplasia had occured. If I have my head on straight that has never been proven under normal conditions in humans.
If this actually is how the tissues respond to mechanical stress then we can all expect very limited gains as the "toughness" of the ligaments and tunica would increase radically with the kind of stress we use (assuming that the stress we use is analogous to the stress they used which is doubtful).
Click to expand...
I agree. Also, I believe you're correct about hyperplasia (they've found it in felines & other test animals but never, I believe, in humans).
 
Originally posted by stillwantmore
...isnt it funny how we come up with all these theories and ideas as to what 'might' work best as far as enlarging our penises goes....acting like we actually KNOW that what we're proposing will work? When actually, for the most part there's no exact science to any of this stuff and we're just shooting in the dark hoping to hit a bullseye every once in a while?" Well, I'll leave you all to debate this now and mull over it and calculate and re-calculate and, spend more countless hours scanning the Internet for research articles to back up your own hypothesis and theories. I'll be making my penis bigger. Ta, ta!
Click to expand...
I'm reaching this point myself. I made a few posts about Penis Enlargement "science" for some of the guys who seemed interested, but I feel that it's almost turning into a college bull session - like those interminable debates on campus about Nietzsche, Kant, Hume, etc. Mental masturbation, self-congratulatory delusion.
Want to know how "complicated" my recent gains have been?
(1) I grab my dick
(2) I pull upwards - very hard
(3) my dick has gotten longer - both soft & hard
also....if you've digested that hi-tech science....(yes, there's more choice nuggets o' wisdom!)...
(1) I form a partial ring around my base with my fingers
(2) I milk forward
(3) my dick has gotten thicker & veinier...
Reminds me of 2 famous old concepts....
(1) Plato is philosophy - the rest are all footnotes.
(2)And the other comes from the rabbis (no, I'm not Jewish), but there's an old tale that a student came up to a famous rabbi & challenged/demanded to be taught the Torah immediately. The rabbi looked him over and repeated the Sh'ma (Deut. 6:4), then said, The rest is all commentary, go study it.
Basically, we're either squeezing or pulling - the rest is all commentary. What is our "Torah"?
I'd say, read Bib's LOT theory. Try DLD's Blasters. Try Ulis or some other form of holds. Try wet & dry jelqs.
Get busy.
 
DLD is one the nicest people I have met in the Penis Enlargement world. Therefore I will not get into what I think about your post.

This was a discussion for those who chose to participate. If you felt like you wanted to add something constructive then you could have.

No one asked you to impose your negative attitude toward the science aspect of this. Some of us are ready to make it easier for all of us to gain. If this isnt your desire then please allow the rest of us to pursue it without obstruction.

Thanks
 
Originally posted by 8 isn't enough
DLD is one the nicest people I have met in the Penis Enlargement world. Therefore I will not get into what I think about your post.

This was a discussion for those who chose to participate. If you felt like you wanted to add something constructive then you could have.

No one asked you to impose your negative attitude toward the science aspect of this. Some of us are ready to make it easier for all of us to gain. If this isnt your desire then please allow the rest of us to pursue it without obstruction.

Thanks
Click to expand...
whoa 8,
I'm not "obstructing" any of this pseudo-science. Feel free to spend endless hours discussing all of this, if you so desire. And to set the record straight, I don't have a "negative attitude toward the science aspect" of Penis Enlargement. I just don't think that any of this is "science," on our behalf. We're just tossing around numerous bits & pieces of probably irrelevant information, misunderstanding other bits, improperly attributing causality, failing to take into account significant factors of published research, etc., etc.
Some are merely trying to demonstrate how much knowledge they have of biology or penile anatomy, etc. If you need that, it's cool (we all have our own tics).
But.....please don't call this patchwork quilt of disjointed speculations "science."
 
Fall over seven times, stand up eight.

Evolution is very much a hit and miss affair (mostly miss). The stuff we are talking about now will be laughable to us all in a year or two. The benefit to others though (whether intended or not) is that we are learning many ways how not to do this right, so that a more certain path may be left in clear view.

I don't consider the Wright brothers to be failures because they never put a man on the moon, I just don't think they knew much about space travel. In the same way, to posulate/guess/experiment with anything, however naive it may be, is actually the way forward. There are many people who would drive a car all their lives without even thinking to learn what goes on under the bonnet. I am not one. If DLD say press the throttle and the car goes forward, many are happy with than and don't need or want to know any more. It's just that personally, I want to learn more. I want to learn 'why'. If that doesn't interest some/most people then I can respect that, they can be the silent majority. I hear naysayers and people complaining of irresponsibliliy in posts, that people might blindly follow. I say let Darwinian theory prevail rather than nanny people into thinking they are not responsible for their own wellbeing. Life is a risky business and we often forget that. We each have our own goals, but much of the groundwork is common to us all, so we can journey for a while, or not...To each their own.

At the risk of venturing off topic here, I'll tell you why I like to discuss things so much, so that it may make a little more sense:

I was brought up with a pretty conservative, 'risk avoidance' family ethic. I had a lot of fire in my belly, and still do. I wanted to get into everything, all of it, now! Pretty soon I realised I wasn't making much progress as there weren't enough hours in the day to learn everything I needed to know. So I decided I needed to 'learn how to learn' effectively. Long story short - I found that backing off and just playing around with stuff is for me, the best way forward. When you watch kids at play, if you take a moment it all comes into focus, and you realise that they are born with the best learning mechanism ever devised. I like to play. Some will say that it is foolish, irrelevant or misguided, but to judge one persons actions by another persons values will give you false conclusions. I have been and continue to be fairly successful and happy in my life by playing (financial & relationship). It's fun and rewarding to me. People often get upset with me because I don't have to 'work' everyday, I don't struggle to pay the bills, or they think I'm [ahem] 'lucky'. I say this:

If you learn to read the lessons in failure, *and* take action, you cannot fail to eventually succeed.
 
Back to the topic at hand. Shiver, you asked about why the penis stops growing post puberty.

The penis stops growing due to the down regulation of androgen receptors in the penis. The lower DHT mixed with the higher basal levels of the penile AR killer Estrogen is responsible. Not to simplify this because there are many other GH related drop offs and the catabolic hormone cortisol increases.

Some theorize that the penis looses its ability to convert Testosterone the DHT as being a factor. This has never been proven. And I would venture to say this is incorrect.

The prostate doesnt continue to grow all through life either although it has been proven to grow with excessive dht or Estrogen.

The point is this: it wasnt designed to grow all through life.....



:p
 
I would also like to add that Shivers post is inspirational and we could learn from his experiences with life. His point is well taken concerning those who choose to succeed will and those who dont....wont. But this is relative to each individuals goals and aspirations. Success is a personal feeling of achievement and has nothing to do with anyone else's opinion.

Congratulations on your success, Shiver!
 
Originally posted by WaxN
[...]it's almost turning into a college bull session - like those interminable debates on campus about Nietzsche, Kant, Hume, etc.
Click to expand...

Hey, those guys knew tons about Penis Enlargement. Of course, Nietzsche was duly immasculated by the only woman he asked to marry him... Hydromaxmm...

Originally posted by Shiver
Long story short - I found that backing off and just playing around with stuff is for me, the best way forward. [...] I like to play.
Click to expand...

I agree, let's all just play with our dicks. Less mentally satisfying perhaps but man is it fun!! :D

I think the "science" going on here is patchy at best, but there are some pertinent points brought up. If we all wanted to we could have stayed in the primitive age of Penis Enlargement and just jelqed. Period. Most people tend to do more. I think it has to do with the instant gratification cult that society has become. You've got the newbies coming in asking "how do I gain 3", my girlfriend is coming home in 2 months". Fast results rule the world and that's why we all try to better our practice by delving into the murky depths of theory. We may go astray but dammit, we're learning something. It might not all apply to Penis Enlargement but we're learning. And I don't know about anyone else but I'm either stretching or doing my PC exercises when I'm looking for/reading through this stuff.

And as such I would consider the LOT theory to be even more patchy than most of the stuff considered here, but that's just me.
 
Originally posted by 8 isn't enough
The cells in the penis feed off of one thing and one thing only. This is DHT (Rc) or T (Rc) Well I guess that two things..Once inside the nucleus it become DHT/T (Rn). Without one of those then the cell dies and becomes scar tissue. If you look any further than the cellular level then you are not achieving growth.

The thing is that heat would allow the enzymes to bind at a much greater rate as well as the AR. It is possible that the cells hypertrophy and then divide due to better DHT/T (Rc) binding rate.

This is the simple explanation of this. It is much more complex than I will get into right now. The difference between scar tissue and growth will depend of this.
Click to expand...

Firstly, Hi guys...I'm new here, though not new to Penis Enlargement.
8 ins't enough, are you saying that DHT is responsible for hypertrophy in penis? So if Penis Enlargement increases penis size then is Penis Enlargement stimulating DHT production? In that case it would be detrimental for general health, as DHT can cause BPH and alopecia! Do you mean Alpha Reductase when you say AR? So AR binding will cause T->DHT conversion!

I am concerned about this. Some months back I started vacuum pumping. I must have been about 3 months into pumping and I suddenly started noticing a receding hairline. I stoppped pumping just by intuition that it may be the cause. I'm 23 BTW. Then I noticed that it got slightly better, in the sense that it stopped receding after I stopped pumping and it's been an year since. Do you make anything out of this??? Thanks!
 
I know it doesn't really make sense. But the facts are that my dad has excellent hair (still), I'm 23 and the temporary recession happened last year, I noticed slight recession after appx. 3 months of pumping (telogen phase has a lag of 3-4 months to show up), also it stopped receding/thinning after I stopped pumping. So if in 3 months it could recede visibly and then stop receding for 1 year afterwards, doesn't that indicate that pumping is the culprit?

I am wondering if the vacuum pressure caused by pumping is catalysing the T->DHT conversion. It's well known that DHT can cause receding hairline during puberty for teens and alopecia for some adults.

Anyway, the hair has been fine after I stopped pumping and I am NEVER going to go back to pumping! Ain't worth it as I didn't see any permanent results from pumping.
 
There are some theories stating that Penis Enlargement itself upregulates the AR. No, Penis Enlargement is responsible for the hypertrophy. I stated my opinion that By doing Penis Enlargement, you cause a reaction that makes the cell upregulate the receptors. This might be wrong, some gain on finasteride.

The pathways I stated are correct but cells also proliferate due to stress. This is seen in some recent studies where they are attempting to grow smooth muscle.

As for pumping, there is a huge amount of 5ar in the penis. Pumping forces blood into the CC and *could cause and increase in DHT.
 
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