Do you believe in god? the gods discussion thread

[Shooting for 7"]

Gotta assume you don't have kids then. Babies think about eating and gas, that's about it lol. One can use semantics to prove any argument. There is no question that faith is something one learns about, and certainly not as a baby. If "faith in a god" was inherent-then there would be no atheists. So stretch this concept of "god" all you like, but there's no indication that one baby would know what you are talking about. And the closest thing in theism that you are describing here would be LDS-so maybe you're a mormon and just don't know it yet!

Crazy Doc I do have a child and let me tell you this - he teaches me so much....about life and how to live it. I assume you have children (by the way you asked me if I did), and no disrespect to you at all, but maybe you aren't very observant ?

Sure babies (not children) care about eating and gassing, but that's done subconsciously, without thinking, just like their breathing etc.

But let me ask you this question..... what do you see is your purpose ?? I mean your higher purpose ?? What are you here on earth, living, for ?? Do you think you have no purpose, that you don't fit with the rest of society, with the human race, with the collective consciousness of those around you and further afield ??

I'm interested in your take on this.

By the way, I suggest to you that children are far more understanding AND ACCEPTING of what 'god' is, it's adults that have the issues......(erm, I wonder where they got those from....)

Peace.

 

[Shooting for 7"]

If the doctrines are TRUE, there is really no way to twist them. You can't blame man for all the bad and give some god credit for all the good. If what you say were true-then ALL RELIGIONS would kill in the same per capita ratio, yet they DON'T. This indicates a problem with some doctrines, therefore religions, NOT WITH MEN.

Wow, Crazy Doc, I think you do all your thinking from your head and very little, if any, from your heart.....

I'll keep this brief - since I'm not that good at explaining these sorts of things very well !

What if, Crazy Doc, this were the scenario.....

Accept that God has us here to simply be on the planet to love, be truthful and experience joy (to create and to evolve). Suspend any opinions you may have and just follow this for a second. Now, also accept that God doesn't judge us, he has given us FREE WILL to do as we please, but were he to guide us (and he does, in many, many ways by the way), he'd say to do what best serves and assists your fellow man. This is from the heart and with love. With me so far ?? Now, man, in his 'wisdom' and over the centuries develops an ego, has fear, has greed, wants power, wants the quick easy way, messes up this plan - because he starts using his head more and his heart less. Other men soon follow (they are 'human' after all and their egos get in the way as well, too much 'thinking' - i.e. "why should he be allowed to get away with it.."). All the while, God merely observes, never judges, never condemns man to 'hell' (because, actually, there is no such thing as 'hell', just as there is no such thing as a 'devil'. These are all man made constructs to put fear in other men).

So, God has to take the 'blame' in your eyes ?? Why ?? You talk about 'religion'. Why blame God for that ?? What 'good' has man done which should have God step aside since he had no part in it and watch man take the credit ?? The space shuttle or the Hubble telescope ?? The Theory of Relativity ?? Are you saying that man invented these things ?? Or are you willing to accept that man discovered these technologies and put them to good use ?? Surely you are not saying that man is that 'better', that cleverer than God ?? Man is merely discovering that which already exists and making it real (from imagination first).

All I ask is you be a bit more open - think a bit more openly. And don't be so fearful of the unknown and of those who might just be a little more aware/enlightened than yourself and who are coming from love with knowledge about that you know nothing about.

With peace to you.

 

[Crazy Doc]

Wow, Crazy Doc, I think you do all your thinking from your head and very little, if any, from your heart.....

I'll keep this brief - since I'm not that good at explaining these sorts of things very well !

What if, Crazy Doc, this were the scenario.....

Accept that God has us here to simply be on the planet to love, be truthful and experience joy (to create and to evolve). Suspend any opinions you may have and just follow this for a second. Now, also accept that God doesn't judge us, he has given us FREE WILL to do as we please, but were he to guide us (and he does, in many, many ways by the way), he'd say to do what best serves and assists your fellow man. This is from the heart and with love. With me so far ?? Now, man, in his 'wisdom' and over the centuries develops an ego, has fear, has greed, wants power, wants the quick easy way, messes up this plan - because he starts using his head more and his heart less. Other men soon follow (they are 'human' after all and their egos get in the way as well, too much 'thinking' - i.e. "why should he be allowed to get away with it.."). All the while, God merely observes, never judges, never condemns man to 'hell' (because, actually, there is no such thing as 'hell', just as there is no such thing as a 'devil'. These are all man made constructs to put fear in other men).

So, God has to take the 'blame' in your eyes ?? Why ?? You talk about 'religion'. Why blame God for that ?? What 'good' has man done which should have God step aside since he had no part in it and watch man take the credit ?? The space shuttle or the Hubble telescope ?? The Theory of Relativity ?? Are you saying that man invented these things ?? Or are you willing to accept that man discovered these technologies and put them to good use ?? Surely you are not saying that man is that 'better', that cleverer than God ?? Man is merely discovering that which already exists and making it real (from imagination first).

All I ask is you be a bit more open - think a bit more openly. And don't be so fearful of the unknown and of those who might just be a little more aware/enlightened than yourself and who are coming from love with knowledge about that you know nothing about.

With peace to you.

The issue was NOT god vs man, it was religion vs man on the issue of fault. And statistics will show that religion is to blame-again, otherwise, the doctrine would be irrelevant, evil men would corrupt anything.... yet ... THEY DON'T. But to take it a step further-yes, these gods are indeed DEFINED by their respective doctrines -so if you want to blame the god for the doctrine and all the mayhem it may cause since the doctrine claims the god wrote it through men... well, then I'll go along with that. But the issue here then depends on what the doctrine says, not what you interpret god as-the latter is quite irrelevant to my claims.

 

[Crazy Doc]

Crazy Doc I do have a child and let me tell you this - he teaches me so much....about life and how to live it. I assume you have children (by the way you asked me if I did), and no disrespect to you at all, but maybe you aren't very observant ?

Sure babies (not children) care about eating and gassing, but that's done subconsciously, without thinking, just like their breathing etc.

But let me ask you this question..... what do you see is your purpose ?? I mean your higher purpose ?? What are you here on earth, living, for ?? Do you think you have no purpose, that you don't fit with the rest of society, with the human race, with the collective consciousness of those around you and further afield ??

I'm interested in your take on this.

By the way, I suggest to you that children are far more understanding AND ACCEPTING of what 'god' is, it's adults that have the issues......(erm, I wonder where they got those from....)

Peace.

My purpose contradicts any concept of a higher power. My purpose is to find true happiness here and now, in this world. And children are not the issue, babies are. Children can be corrupted into thinking it's ok to hit or be abused... yet that belief doesn't make it right, it makes it corruption and nothing more. Babies are clean slates-they know nothing, and they certainly have no knowledge of faith or gods only of their needs-stay on point, the point at hand is BABIES not children, big difference.

I don't deny that you believe in some concept of a god. You know why? Because you have a monopoly on YOUR beliefs. By the same token, it's quite arrogant for you or ANYONE to say broad things like "everyone believes in some concept of god, whether they know it or not". Because you are wrong. Some claims could be made-for example, in Confucianism, they have no concept of "god", but they do believe in "Heaven" but not like the westerner thinks of heaven. More like a force of destiny, or perhaps like George Washington's "Divine Providence". I'll accept a stretch like that - that Confucianism could be argued as both Theist and Atheist, depending on how you interpret the word "theist". But there is no question (to the educated) that there are Atheists out there, and that the majority of them never heard of a god and have no concept of it that you have described, nor otherwise. There is no need in some of our minds for a "higher power" or anything else. To try to twist someone else's beliefs to make yourself feel cozy in your beliefs is also selfish if you ask me lol.

 

[Crazy Doc]

I think a higher power is always a part of belief of existence. I think everyone has a higher power but it may be defined as something completely different.

I just said several times that I have no higher power... So I guess you think you know my mind better than I do DLD? Also, please elaborate on your first statement-demonstrate how a higher power MUST be part of belief in existence? I'm truly curious.

 

[DLD]

I just said several times that I have no higher power... So I guess you think you know my mind better than I do DLD? Also, please elaborate on your first statement-demonstrate how a higher power MUST be part of belief in existence? I'm truly curious.

Do you talk to yourself in your mind? How do you make choices? It is the consciousness that is the higher power. The sense of self and the conversations with self are just like prayers or meditation, it is all the same. Religion puts names and faces to this but ALL Penis EnlargementOPLE have consciousness and this is that sense of self that I am referring to.

 

[Crazy Doc]

Do you talk to yourself in your mind? How do you make choices? It is the consciousness that is the higher power. The sense of self and the conversations with self are just like prayers or meditation, it is all the same. Religion puts names and faces to this but ALL Penis EnlargementOPLE have consciousness and this is that sense of self that I am referring to.

"Sense of self"? yes. "Higher Power"? No, and you've not demonstrated that. You can call it that, sure, but you've not connected the two to show it. I can claim my penis is Jesus Christ too... but I can't imagine how I'd show it to be true as I'm not willing to put any nails in my balls.

 

[Alex78]

Do you talk to yourself in your mind? How do you make choices? It is the consciousness that is the higher power. The sense of self and the conversations with self are just like prayers or meditation, it is all the same. Religion puts names and faces to this but ALL Penis EnlargementOPLE have consciousness and this is that sense of self that I am referring to.

Well knowing that Providence or God or Higher Power exists does not really give you relief, knowing that your consciousness is linked or a masked mirror of god, does not help you, we all just utter the words of saints and preachers, but none of us with a direct link to the ones we so much want.
I have never met enlightened ones but read and talked about them..
I do want to believe, i do want...but years of fruitless meditation gave no hope.... i still believe, maybe not for me, maybe Providence does play favorites among men....

 

[Crazy Doc]

Well knowing that Providence or God or Higher Power exists does not really give you relief, knowing that your consciousness is linked or a masked mirror of god, does not help you, we all just utter the words of saints and preachers, but none of us with a direct link to the ones we so much want.
I have never met enlightened ones but read and talked about them..
I do want to believe, i do want...but years of fruitless meditation gave no hope.... i still believe, maybe not for me, maybe Providence does play favorites among men....

I have been fortunate enough to have what I would call "moments of truth" through meditation (chanting)... And I learned the following: That everything I thought I knew was wrong and that I really knew nothing, that it perhaps may require the depths of despair to find oneself (the most beautiful blossom comes out of the mud?), that eternity (past, present, and future) are in the moment, that I control my own destiny and always had (which meant I could not blame anyone for anything that happened to me-it was all MY doing), and that wisdom is NOT property-you cannot own it, you can only appreciate it and try to hold on to it when you have it-but it has NOTHING to do with age, experience, or knowledge, it is simply awareness of life, of the self.

And I am fortunate, one who never seeks will never find, and even when one seeks-without sincerity, efforts are almost worthless. Sincerity is the key, as only through sincerity can one find the humility to discover truth/wisdom, but true sincerity is a hard thing to drum up in the darkened, karmic, human mind.

 

[REDZULU2003]

Crazy Doc you seem to know allot about this stuff I grant you that. Much more than I do thats for certain. I would appreictae if you shared more of your actual knowledge on meditation and that portion to your life in new threads within this section. You would be the first ''expert'' if you like that has posted in here on such topics as meditation and has so much knowledge on it so please feel free to make new threads and add topics, not just to this one but thats not a hint saying shut the fuck up ... keep going all day everyday if you like, that is what [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] is here for ... its very much now become a virtual psychiatrist and counselling session rolled into one

 

[Crazy Doc]

Crazy Doc you seem to know allot about this stuff I grant you that. Much more than I do thats for certain. I would appreictae if you shared more of your actual knowledge on meditation and that portion to your life in new threads within this section. You would be the first ''expert'' if you like that has posted in here on such topics as meditation and has so much knowledge on it so please feel free to make new threads and add topics, not just to this one but thats not a hint saying shut the fuck up ... keep going all day everyday if you like, that is what [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] is here for ... its very much now become a virtual psychiatrist and counselling session rolled into one

Well zulu-I know A LOT about a very FEW things Faith is pretty personal to me, so I don't know how much I'd want to go into it on an open forum. Meditation also, is very broad. I know a lot about chanting to a mandala, which is one way to do it-and it is the core of my faith. I also recite the sutra (Lotus Sutra). I do really enjoy discussing theology in general, be it mine or someone else's. The only other thing I would say here is that-meditation DOES work if done properly, but the benefit is wisdom-and wisdom is not really something easy to describe, ya? Either way, I'm always willing to answer questions if asked-but it's just not my style to start preaching or lecturing about my faith, unless someone brings up something I feel the need to respond to, or I'm asked directly about it.

Also-let me clarify, again, wisdom is NOT property-so yes, I've done it right before and Yes, in those moments I was wise... and you don't forget truth, but wisdom is not KNOWING the truth, it is living it-that's the part that is slippery and hard to hold onto. Anyone can get knowledge, wisdom is in the moment alone.
Point being-I'm not very wise anymore.

 

[MAXAMEYES]

I always gotta chuckle when I hear folks say things like "I have no higher power" or, "I'm totally in control of my own destiny".
I chuckle because if these folks have to ever bail out of a flaming aircraft they will believe, without a doubt, that at least fire and gravity are far higher powers than they are.

On the way down I guarantee prayers will be offered to everything from God to pencil shavings and destiny, gravity, fire, the all-too-sudden-stop at the bottom...whatever will not give one single shit for those who are praying.

Sometimes circumstance has all the good cards.

 

[Crazy Doc]

I always gotta chuckle when I hear folks say things like "I have no higher power" or, "I'm totally in control of my own destiny".
I chuckle because if these folks have to ever bail out of a flaming aircraft they will believe, without a doubt, that at least fire and gravity are far higher powers than they are.

On the way down I guarantee prayers will be offered to everything from God to pencil shavings and destiny, gravity, fire, the all-too-sudden-stop at the bottom...whatever will not give one single shit for those who are praying.

Sometimes circumstance has all the good cards.

Nonsense, those are EARTHLY powers. Higher Powers are not just anything you can think of folks-they mean something greater, something greater than what we see. And Max, how do you know my faith hasn't been tested in the face of death already? So by your logic, even folks that never heard of a god would pray to one, perhaps a random one if they fell off a building or something? That's really stupid dude. Faith is. Obviously if I fell out of a plane, or whatever, I'd practice MY faith-it's COMPLETELY idiotic max to say you know I'd suddenly drop my faith and practice some other faith-I mean really, that's one of the silliest things I've heard this year.

Do tell, why would I do that? Wouldn't I practice my faith-the thing I believe in? Why would I suddenly drop my beliefs and practice someone else's faith? That makes no sense. And just because you don't realize you're in control of your destiny max-doesn't mean you are not.

Let's say a drunk driver crashes into someone and causes them paralysis. Let's look at the potential destiny options here:

1/ An all knowing but good god did this-to test the victim's faith (for the rest of their life).
2/ Chance.
3/ Karma: Something they did caused that to happen-they pulled it into their life, after all it happened to THEM, not the guy in front of them, not the guy behind.

Consider now which one sounds the most ridiculous to you!

Also Max-it is a bit foolish to assume everyone sees things the way you do. I don't fear death. I fear an incomplete life. Death to me is just as natural, and just as painful as being born. I don't see it as a bad thing. It is unlikely you and I view death the same way on any level due to different beliefs and culture. But go ahead and assume everyone thinks like you do-I'm sure I'm just confused and you know more about my life and behavior and that of all others - than I do and they do.

*bows down to max the great*

 

[Crazy Doc]

I always gotta chuckle when I hear folks say things like "I have no higher power" or, "I'm totally in control of my own destiny".
I chuckle because if these folks have to ever bail out of a flaming aircraft they will believe, without a doubt, that at least fire and gravity are far higher powers than they are.

On the way down I guarantee prayers will be offered to everything from God to pencil shavings and destiny, gravity, fire, the all-too-sudden-stop at the bottom...whatever will not give one single shit for those who are praying.

Sometimes circumstance has all the good cards.

Also-to counter your specific point about fire. I'd mention an example to prove you wrong, and that you don't know people as well as you think.

During the Vietnam War, Buddhist Monks set themselves on fire, on fucking fire, in protest. And max, they didn't scream, they didn't blink. They sat in perfect silence and stillness as fire burned the flesh off their bodies-and consumed them to their deaths. So even if you wish to argue fire is more powerful (and therefore "higher") than man-those men proved you WRONG. Clearly they were more powerful than fire as it had no effect on their minds.

Isn't it possible Max that you've underestimated the true power of the human mind?

Lastly-while Buddhist, those men I describe are nothing like my sect, quite irrelevant to my faith-but they did demonstrate that your point about fire is quite false.

Go to about 1:00, apparently they won't show the video (censored), but this still tells the story.
[video=youtube;OuSHA0OKEkc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuSHA0OKEkc[/video]

 

[Crazy Doc]

Ah here we go, here's the real deal:

FIRE IS NOT A HIGHER POWER... Man possesses every power there is, therefore there is no higher power, nor any lower power, for all things have the same power...
This video is quite harsh:


[video=youtube;rjpAh4rqTv4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjpAh4rqTv4[/video]

 

[MAXAMEYES]

And yet, I didn't name anyone in particular. Did I?

 

[Crazy Doc]

And yet, I didn't name anyone in particular. Did I?

Of course you did, you named me-you quoted someone and that someone was me. What kind of mickey mouse horseshit is that, quit backpeddling.
My point about fire, higher powers, how men will react to death is based on reason, and evidence.
Yours is more like wishful thinking-I guess that debate is over.
The closed mind chuckles a lot!

 

[MAXAMEYES]

And you assume I have an agenda.

 

[Crazy Doc]

And you assume I have an agenda.

Not at all, I assume you think you know everything as you seem to scoff at everything new

 

[MAXAMEYES]

(chuckles)
Believe me, nothing you've posted is new. Nothing.

Not at all, I assume you think you know everything as you seem to scoff at everything new

 

[Priapus90]

I believe God exists!! I can't prove it to you, never saw him... but I know what i feel inside me! I know a lot of people may argue with that! I used to work in a nursing home and I've seen some die screaming, not cause they were in pain but cause they saw something comin at the end! Others I've seen die in peace and slip off with a smile on their faces! I think there is a God and I think in the end we will all meet him!! Not tryin to argue, just how I believe!!

 

[Crazy Doc]

(chuckles)
Believe me, nothing you've posted is new. Nothing.

It's statements like that that prove my point, you know it all max

 

[MAXAMEYES]

Naw, you're just predictable.
& redundant.

It's statements like that that prove my point, you know it all max

 

[Crazy Doc]

Naw, you're just predictable.
& redundant.

Sorry, let me revise: You know everything and you'll disagree with whatever I say lol. It's amazing how small one's body of knowledge is when they think they cannot learn from 99% of the population! Oh, but you already knew I'd say that... and you knew I'd tear your silly "burning airplane" argument to shreds too... that's why you said all that stuff and watched me make it look idiotic, perhaps it's a masochism fetish... oh wait, you already knew I'd say that. Yes, I truly DO believe you've learned nothing from me Max lol.

 

[MAXAMEYES]

Just can't separate the post from the person, can ya?

 

[Crazy Doc]

Just can't separate the post from the person, can ya?

Do you always talk in slogans? Hmm former AA member maybe max or just unoriginal?

 

[Alex78]

Hey guys get this on topic, go to mail chat, this bitter attacking on one another is not really the god like way for us to contribute to these posts!
Topic was all scientific and spiritual now it is going on the street...

 

[Crazy Doc]

Hey guys get this on topic, go to mail chat, this bitter attacking on one another is not really the god like way for us to contribute to these posts!
Topic was all scientific and spiritual now it is going on the street...

Um, I'm pretty sure it started with a "gold level support" member calling me a liar. I guess moderators don't have to follow the rules. I was just defending myself Alex.

 

[stillwantmore]

You're not listening very well- I already explained that Buddhists are mostly Atheists, so we have NO view of god, god is a contradictory concept to our fundamental beliefs. My point was that guys that try to twist god into something that really contradict the very foundation of what a god is... are kind of like closet gays... they do all these things that are gay, but then try to deny they are gay lol. It's better to simply know the self and just come out with whatever you are or believe. Also-there are many ATHEIST faiths, so again your statement appears a bit ignorant. None of those believers has ANY view of any god, period.

I was replying in a very generalized way. Also replying on what I have experienced personally. I've never met an atheist with a faith, that sounds interesting.

I'd like to point out the fact that having a logical discussion does not include repeatedly pointing out ignorance. Rather, enlighten someone if you feel you have an opposing or more informed point of view

 

[REDZULU2003]

Lets respect each other and realise we have our OWN views. Keep this civil and professional guys. Come on this is a good thread dont ruin it.

 

[Priapus90]

Lets respect each other and realise we have our OWN views. Keep this civil and professional guys. Come on this is a good thread dont ruin it.

I agree RED! Lets just all say weather we believe or not, why or why not, and leave it at that!! LOL!!

 

[Crazy Doc]

I was replying in a very generalized way. Also replying on what I have experienced personally. I've never met an atheist with a faith, that sounds interesting.

I'd like to point out the fact that having a logical discussion does not include repeatedly pointing out ignorance. Rather, enlighten someone if you feel you have an opposing or more informed point of view

I hear you there... but it's pretty rude for a bunch of people to say "no, you do too have a higher power!" lol... It get's old.

 

[DLD]

In my opinion it is smart to believe in God because if you don't and he is real it would really suck when you pass I would rather have faith and play it safe.

 

[Alex78]

In my opinion it is smart to believe in God because if you don't and he is real it would really suck when you pass I would rather have faith and play it safe.

This is exactly what a preacher wants you to!
Does not care if you do, just say you do, so that you encourage others..
If God exist he gave you free will and part of it is that you can believe what you want...


This kind of thinking is not God knowing, you cannot insult an entity that exists everywhere and nowhere at once, your mind cannot comprehend what god is only what he is not!
How can you insult God by saying something against God!
How can you do it? Can you even point a finger and say i insult you!
looks like we only insult what we think God is!

 

[Crazy Doc]

In my opinion it is smart to believe in God because if you don't and he is real it would really suck when you pass I would rather have faith and play it safe.

That's seemingly a good argument DLD-but I bet you haven't really thought it out. Now if there were only 2 choices-God or No God, you'd (from a logic standpoint) be correct.... it would be safer to hedge your bets and believe in God.

But the reality is, there are hundreds of gods.... so this means that the odds just got much worse-if you pray to the wrong god, or make up your own god (still praying to the wrong god unless you got lucky) you're still gonna piss him off and get his wrath ya?

So now that we've stretched the scenario to realism-which is hundreds (really THOUSANDS) of god choices... there is only one logical choice to make, all else held equal:

Choose the god with the WORST PUNISHydromaxENT as you are guaranteed at least now, not to get the worst punisHydromaxent. And guess what, it ain't the christian, jewish, or islamic god-those are all child's play compared to the punisHydromaxents some gods give out.

 

[Crazy Doc]

I'm shocked nobody has commented on the burning monk-who sits still and doesn't make a sound. Arguments aside-this has got to be one of the most fantastic demonstrations of mental control in history.

 

[MAXAMEYES]

Here's my original response, from about a year-and-a-half ago.
I think it still applies:

Re: do you believe in God?
In response to this question I usually have to ask for clarification:
"To which particular definition of God are you referring?"

And remember; belief, by its nature and definition, requires no proof, simply belief

 

[Alex78]

David Halberstam wrote:

I was to see that sight again, but once was enough. Flames were coming from a human being; his body was slowly withering and shriveling up, his head blackening and charring. In the air was the smell of burning human flesh; human beings burn surprisingly quickly. Behind me I could hear the sobbing of the Vietnamese who were now gathering. I was too shocked to cry, too confused to take notes or ask questions, too bewildered to even think... As he burned he never moved a muscle, never uttered a sound, his outward composure in sharp contrast to the wailing people around him.[24]

After his death, his body was re-cremated, but his heart remained intact.[2][3] This was interpreted as a symbol of compassion and led Buddhists to revere him as a Bodhisattva, heightening the impact of his death on the public psyche.

Looks like he achieved some higher states of conscience, he could detach from the body in order to stay calm and feel no pain..
Truly a remarkable feet of strength and body control!

 

[DLD]

That's seemingly a good argument DLD-but I bet you haven't really thought it out. Now if there were only 2 choices-God or No God, you'd (from a logic standpoint) be correct.... it would be safer to hedge your bets and believe in God.

But the reality is, there are hundreds of gods.... so this means that the odds just got much worse-if you pray to the wrong god, or make up your own god (still praying to the wrong god unless you got lucky) you're still gonna piss him off and get his wrath ya?

So now that we've stretched the scenario to realism-which is hundreds (really THOUSANDS) of god choices... there is only one logical choice to make, all else held equal:

Choose the god with the WORST PUNISHydromaxENT as you are guaranteed at least now, not to get the worst punisHydromaxent. And guess what, it ain't the christian, jewish, or islamic god-those are all child's play compared to the punisHydromaxents some gods give out.

I have thought it out and I still stand by it; Better to believe in God than not, if it turns out he does not exist you lose nothing, if he is real you gain everything...I will play it safe and praise my God.

 

[DLD]

And remember; belief, by its nature and definition, requires no proof, simply belief

Yup

 

[Crazy Doc]

I have thought it out and I still stand by it; Better to believe in God than not, if it turns out he does not exist you lose nothing, if he is real you gain everything...I will play it safe and praise my God.

K, then you didn't read my response as it invalidates the logic of this argument-the argument only works if there are 2 choices... that's more like economics lol, the reality is there are 1000s which means the argument won't hold water.

 

[DLD]

K, then you didn't read my response as it invalidates the logic of this argument-the argument only works if there are 2 choices... that's more like economics lol, the reality is there are 1000s which means the argument won't hold water.

Dude, Just because you think this was does not make it correct, it makes it a personal choice. I still stand by my logic 100%

 

[Crazy Doc]

Dude, Just because you think this was does not make it correct, it makes it a personal choice. I still stand by my logic 100%

I'm not arguing with anyone's personal faith-as I've said everyone has a monopoly on their own faith. But the argument is flawed if we are speaking of logic without faith. Because there are 1000s of gods, the odds are - you don't have the right one, and will incur his punisHydromaxent, just like the atheist. With that in mind-the atheist makes more sense because both guys are fucked, but the atheist never wasted his time.

 

[REDZULU2003]

Regarding the burning monk - Shocking but in a respectful way. These people are renown for the abilities they have. The fact his heart remained intact afterwards says something to me! That did NOT happen by coincidence! A sign, message to those around and they knew(know) it. Peace to him.

What I will say regarding the 1000's of gods is its all swings & roundabouts. Depends on what religion you are because the Islamic faith isnt going to entertain the gods in the Sikh faith and vice versa with the other religions. They keep to their own teachings and belief systems. These 1000's of gods are again mans interpretation of gods, not saying they are not gods but who's to say they are not all working onm behalf of a more superior force anyway? these 1000's of gods could be all the same god but the different cultures and regions have a spin to how 'it' would look and act.

So in truth 1000's of gods could be brought down to 100's of gods and even less. If it were to be 1000's of gods anyhow it doesn't matter because they still have power even if it doesn't exist because of the energy building over the years from the prayers and worshipping has literally created deities that may have never existed. When I practised the occult years ago and my teacher at the time would tell me about how mans constant beliefs in gods would create an entity even if it wasn't in the first place ... believe so much and it will happen sort of thing and so over the millennia the constant minds have potentially done that ... this is hard to grasp for the average layman but in 'magic' its done all the time with what are called in Chaos Magic as Servitors.

Anyway according to the faith the god/s is different and for the most part perhaps lets say or suggest even that regions (Cultures) interpretation of the higher powers around them, that something has to be greater than them to worship. The Mayans and Aztec's sacrificed people to satisfy their gods and again they had 100's and 100's.

I find it difficult to put my full feelings into words because its complex but all the gods in all religions and other arts are essentially interlinked and related i.e. sun gods, moon gods etc The higher self to me is also strongly related to ones own Guardian Angel or Spirit Guide, but that's like religion and god if you believe in it albeit I have communicated directly with mine and anyone can with practice.

In the bible it does say about not taking up the names of other gods on ones lips, so its not encouraged in some faiths whereas in others they have multiple. Again back to the thread name do you believe in god? YES and I believe in many other spirits and deities around us. Allot of this I think with gods is very reletaed to the heavens and the universe in general. The planets have their own powers and can be used by special sigils and numbers used for 1000's and 1000's of years. They are like the moon and have influence on things here. I mention this because gods, universe, space, planets, time all are together for me and only now are we becommming more receptive to it ... quantum physics is explaining more and we start to scratch the surface ... Science will never accept god/s because it will never fully accept what cannot be seen but remember this ... what is seen is never eternal but what cannot be seen remains eternal forever! If you cannot see it does not mean it is not there ... again as humans we are simple in essence, we do not know allot really about the universe and think we know everything That we could even perhaps be the only life around ahhahahaahah what wank!!! who believes that needs to be shot, sorry but who is that niave? As humans on earth we have a purpose ... what? who knows YET ... the Dinosaurs were here before us what was their purpose? can it be deciphered? they were massive and roamed the earth but in the end they were destroyed by what many call an act of god! t

 

[Crazy Doc]

Regarding the burning monk - Shocking but in a respectful way. These people are renown for the abilities they have. The fact his heart remained intact afterwards says something to me! That did NOT happen by coincidence! A sign, message to those around and they knew(know) it. Peace to him.

What I will say regarding the 1000's of gods is its all swings & roundabouts. Depends on what religion you are because the Islamic faith isnt going to entertain the gods in the Sikh faith and vice versa with the other religions. They keep to their own teachings and belief systems. These 1000's of gods are again mans interpretation of gods, not saying they are not gods but who's to say they are not all working onm behalf of a more superior force anyway? these 1000's of gods could be all the same god but the different cultures and regions have a spin to how 'it' would look and act.

So in truth 1000's of gods could be brought down to 100's of gods and even less. If it were to be 1000's of gods anyhow it doesn't matter because they still have power even if it doesn't exist because of the energy building over the years from the prayers and worshipping has literally created deities that may have never existed. When I practised the occult years ago and my teacher at the time would tell me about how mans constant beliefs in gods would create an entity even if it wasn't in the first place ... believe so much and it will happen sort of thing and so over the millennia the constant minds have potentially done that ... this is hard to grasp for the average layman but in 'magic' its done all the time with what are called in Chaos Magic as Servitors.

Anyway according to the faith the god/s is different and for the most part perhaps lets say or suggest even that regions (Cultures) interpretation of the higher powers around them, that something has to be greater than them to worship. The Mayans and Aztec's sacrificed people to satisfy their gods and again they had 100's and 100's.

I find it difficult to put my full feelings into words because its complex but all the gods in all religions and other arts are essentially interlinked and related i.e. sun gods, moon gods etc The higher self to me is also strongly related to ones own Guardian Angel or Spirit Guide, but that's like religion and god if you believe in it albeit I have communicated directly with mine and anyone can with practice.

In the bible it does say about not taking up the names of other gods on ones lips, so its not encouraged in some faiths whereas in others they have multiple. Again back to the thread name do you believe in god? YES and I believe in many other spirits and deities around us. Allot of this I think with gods is very reletaed to the heavens and the universe in general. The planets have their own powers and can be used by special sigils and numbers used for 1000's and 1000's of years. They are like the moon and have influence on things here. I mention this because gods, universe, space, planets, time all are together for me and only now are we becommming more receptive to it ... quantum physics is explaining more and we start to scratch the surface ... Science will never accept god/s because it will never fully accept what cannot be seen but remember this ... what is seen is never eternal but what cannot be seen remains eternal forever! If you cannot see it does not mean it is not there ... again as humans we are simple in essence, we do not know allot really about the universe and think we know everything That we could even perhaps be the only life around ahhahahaahah what wank!!! who believes that needs to be shot, sorry but who is that niave? As humans on earth we have a purpose ... what? who knows YET ... the Dinosaurs were here before us what was their purpose? can it be deciphered? they were massive and roamed the earth but in the end they were destroyed by what many call an act of god! t

Good stuff zulu, just one comment: Worship is not inherently to something greater than yourself. For example, in my faith-the "object of worship' is described as a mirror. And that is precisely what it is-a mirror to see one's life clearly. But it is still something I worship, even though it is me. If it's me, it cannot be higher than me.

Mine is not the only faith that would take exception to the "worship requires a higher power" claim. Just wanted to mention that. I would agree it is USUALLY the case, but not always.

 

[DLD]

Good stuff zulu, just one comment: Worship is not inherently to something greater than yourself. For example, in my faith-the "object of worship' is described as a mirror. And that is precisely what it is-a mirror to see one's life clearly. But it is still something I worship, even though it is me. If it's me, it cannot be higher than me.

Mine is not the only faith that would take exception to the "worship requires a higher power" claim. Just wanted to mention that. I would agree it is USUALLY the case, but not always.

But worshiping yourself is still worship, which means your higher power is yourself.

 

[Crazy Doc]

But worshiping yourself is still worship, which means your higher power is yourself.

lol good one. Sorry, no higher powers here. If you speak Japanese to a British that doesn't know Japanese-not a word will make sense. That's where were at here. Unless you know something about a faith that lacks a higher power-you likely just won't get it.

 

[MAXAMEYES]

Or, perhaps, the future self that you desire to become.
Or recognize that you need to become.
Advancement is always necessary.

But worshiping yourself is still worship, which means your higher power is yourself.

 

[Crazy Doc]

Or, perhaps, the future self that you desire to become.
Or recognize that you need to become.
Advancement is always necessary.

Wow.. we AGREE for once-on the last part, I don't think we're ever finished, there is no final goal. But I don't agree with the future part. It's a "here and now" thing and I've experienced it-a fundamental change in the self in a single instant. I would describe it more like "polishing my life", day after day.

 

[MAXAMEYES]

As physical beings we have "time" to deal with, no getting around that. Spiritually, conceptually even, maybe not so much. But "the future" need only be a thought ahead.

Wow.. we AGREE for once-on the last part, I don't think we're ever finished, there is no final goal. But I don't agree with the future part. It's a "here and now" thing and I've experienced it-a fundamental change in the self in a single instant. I would describe it more like "polishing my life", day after day.