Interesting Conversation on Ligament Stretching

I make no secrets of my involvement with the Penis Enlargement world. On top of spending countless hours at MoS I spend time on every Penis Enlargement forum. Even though I am an ex-member at Thundersplace, and I think the guy is full of shit, I still enjoy reading some of the threads there...just because he is an idiot it does not mean his members are. There are some very intelligent, talented people on all of the Penis Enlargement forums and I learn from all of them.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, I don't read all the Penis Enlargement forums but I do read MOS and �other forum�. I like both sites and so far I have not had any run ins with anyone from either site and I hope it stays that way.
I just want a bigger penis.

Back on topic I also think it would be a great contribution to Penis Enlargement to get an animated model designed and posted that would demonstrate the LOT theory.

This thread may also be of interest here.

http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16856&highlight=bigbedu

DLD,

>Wow, I am very impressed your thoughts on this Bib, I would love to illustrate your ideas. Getting these ideas into a working graphical model would be a huge contribution to the Penis Enlargement world. Before Penis Enlargement I was a graphic illustrator and between that and the help of Bryce I think we could create a working, animated model that could be mathematically accurate. <

I will help you any way I can. Just as I did with modesto.

Bigger

sikdogg,

>This is true immediately after surgury, but from my research on phalloplasty you must use some type of traction device to make erect gains. I think this is in line with Bib's theory. My understanding of LOT Theory is that you stretch the ligs to allow you to pull out and expose the inner penis. Just cutting the ligs won't expose the inner penis, you must still pull it out through some external means (hanging or manual stretching). The cut ligs should theoretically make it easier to pull out the inner penis, it won't just automatically come out.<

Yes, there are many types of connective tissue in the area of the genitalia. Cutting some of the susp ligs, or re-positioning them, allows for the inner shaft from the bottom of the PB to the exit point to more easily be pulled down and out. However, you still have to hang weights after the surgery.

Bigger

Bib said:

DLD,

>Wow, I am very impressed your thoughts on this Bib, I would love to illustrate your ideas. Getting these ideas into a working graphical model would be a huge contribution to the Penis Enlargement world. Before Penis Enlargement I was a graphic illustrator and between that and the help of Bryce I think we could create a working, animated model that could be mathematically accurate. <

I will help you any way I can. Just as I did with modesto.

Bigger

Click to expand...

Awesome! I think the first thing I will need are some illustrations to use that show the theory in their best light. From here I will create vector based illustrations that can be manipulated mathematically to reflect different variables (ie: exit point, different angles, curve variance, etc.) We have some pretty good data guys on here that I am sure would donate their time to writing the code necessary to create a simple input model. Something similar to the size calculator but with a graphic output.

lets keep our thoughts on this hot, its a great thread.

Hi guys,

here are some of my thoughts I would like to introduce into the discussion on lig stretching. I am looking forward to reading your comments on it.

I've followed most of the theories related to Penis Enlargement (e.g. LOT-Theory) and I figure that there is alot of truth behind that. The more I read about the theories, the more questions come to my mind.

Here is my primary question:

If exposing more inner penis to the outside for length gains soley based upon lig-stretching, what happens e.g. to the bc-muscle, would you not also pull it outside ??? Taking a theoretical case that you expose 2" of your inner penis, then you would definetly have parts of your bc-muscle located outside your body but i guess that doesn't happen. So, why is this ???

This question made me think about all the theories behind lig-stretching and the basic underlying assumptions made.
As far as I understand LOT-theorie, bib, please correct me, the underlying assumption is that Ligs are attached to a specific point on the pubic bone and attached to a specific point on the tunica which does not change. So length gains result only from stretching ligs.

Now challenging this assumption would mean raising a question like: "Why are the attachment points to the pubic bone and the tunica not changeable over time ???" Which would mean, that under load, the ligs and e.g. bc-muscles not only react to the load by stretching, but also by "walking". This could explain why you not expose your bc-muscle to the outside as you expose your inner penis. The attachment points of the muscle to the tunica changes over time and literally "walks".

So, let's call this the "lig-walk"-Theorie, I don't know a better name for it. Perhaps someone has already raised this point, but I have not come across it yet.

I personally think, length gains come from both stretching and "lig-walk".

Not to be missunderstood. This is not an attempt to prove or disprove any other theory. Just an attempt to contribute to the discussion and to bring in an additional aspect which might be of complementary nature to all the existing.

What do you guys think of this ??

mrdstone said:

If exposing more inner penis to the outside for length gains soley based upon lig-stretching, what happens e.g. to the bc-muscle, would you not also pull it outside ??? Taking a theoretical case that you expose 2" of your inner penis, then you would definetly have parts of your bc-muscle located outside your body but i guess that doesn't happen. So, why is this ???

Click to expand...

Interesting point mrdstone. You might find post 30 by Redzulu in this thread

http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17210&page=2

fits that idea.

mrdstone,

>If exposing more inner penis to the outside for length gains soley based upon lig-stretching, what happens e.g. to the bc-muscle, would you not also pull it outside ???<

The bc muscle is located well behind the pubic bone, closer to the anus. The shaft is more peeled down off the front of the pubic bone.

It would take quite a lot of time and effot to pull the BC forward.

>Taking a theoretical case that you expose 2" of your inner penis, then you would definetly have parts of your bc-muscle located outside your body but i guess that doesn't happen. So, why is this ???<

I don't have a clue what you mean. For most guys, exposing 2 inches of inner penis is just pulling it off the pubic bone.

>As far as I understand LOT-theorie, bib, please correct me, the underlying assumption is that Ligs are attached to a specific point on the pubic bone and attached to a specific point on the tunica which does not change.<

Oh no. The original attachment points are irrelevant. The significant points where the ligs are attached to the tunica and PB are changed. Lig strands break, attachments peel away, or ligs simply become longer, and no longer function as originally intended.

>So length gains result only from stretching ligs.<

No. The tunica can be stretched also. In fact, the outer tunica always receive the stresses from Penis Enlargement and has the opportunity for growth. The inner tunica can be stressed and grown also.

>Now challenging this assumption would mean raising a question like: "Why are the attachment points to the pubic bone and the tunica not changeable over time ???" <

The significant points do change.

>Which would mean, that under load, the ligs and e.g. bc-muscles not only react to the load by stretching, but also by "walking". This could explain why you not expose your bc-muscle to the outside as you expose your inner penis. The attachment points of the muscle to the tunica changes over time and literally "walks".<

I gained a bunch of length, from both tunica and lig stretch, and I do not believe my BC muscle moved a whit. The roots of the penis are anchored very well.

Bigger

Thanks bib for the clarification. I guess this whole thing about Penis Enlargement makes more and more sense to me the more I read and learn.

Excellent thread, thanks again guys

Bib said:

The bc muscle is located well behind the pubic bone, closer to the anus. The shaft is more peeled down off the front of the pubic bone.

It would take quite a lot of time and effot to pull the BC forward.

I gained a bunch of length, from both tunica and lig stretch, and I do not believe my BC muscle moved a whit. The roots of the penis are anchored very well.

Click to expand...

This helps explain how the Expressive Stretching would be beneficial in stretching these areas. Lig gains, being relatively quick and easy for most guys if their LOT is applicable, are internal gains beyond the pubic bone. Tunica gains, being more difficult to make as the tunica is extremely tough with about 5% elasticity, are mainly outward penis gains. Both of these are well documented as gains that have been possible through the existing exercises of Penis Enlargement. Internal structures beyond these areas (including internal area's easily accessible) are difficult to exercise because they are internal. With Expressive Stretching the penis is forced forward exposing areas otherwise absent in traditional stretching. When these areas are exposed I can successfully stretch them. It is easy to see, once in the stretching position, that the bulb of the penis is now external due to the position of the power assist, making in easily accessible to stretch.

For myself, having made very good tunica and ligament gains, this seems like the best place to train as it is virtually untouched areas of the penis.

Interesting thread from the older days

RED, Whatever happened to BIB? He was extremely helpful back when I was hanging weights from my dangle. How are you doing old friend?

Thanks for bumping this, it has a lot of information on ligs. That graphical model DLD mentioned would be nice to have, but sounds like it would take a bit of work.

bump

MCTFB;154371 said:

Now, with respect to Penis Enlargement, you want the inverse relationship. You want as many microtears as you can get

Click to expand...

So I should NOT warm up with a hot towel ?
I use the SG Extender so better just do a few manual stretches as warm up, then just put on the extender and don't warm up because in another topic they talked about warmth only will make it stretchier so it makes sense that it's not helping you in Penis Enlargement right ?

- AG.

Bib;154489 said:

The portion from the bottom of the pubic bone to the exit point of the skin along the face of the pubic bone is curved. Therefore, it is required that the line of force of the kegal be a tangent off of the curve of the pubic bone, for most guys.

The last portion is a straight line, from the exit point to the tip, the outer penis.

His direction of kegal force is from the bulbs of the penis, to the lig attachment point, usually passing THROUGH the pubic bone. Completely the wrong angle.

In the true physiology, the direction of kegal force is from underneath the bottom of the pubic bone, and then for the vast majority of cases, up the front face of the pubic bone. The only time his model has even a slight chance of being correct is when a guy's exit point is at the very bottom of the pubic bone. This group of guy's probably only includes a few ���� stars.

So, what does this mean mathematically? His direction of kegal force is only a few degrees, up to about 45 degrees from horizontal. The true physiology shows that the direction of kegal force can be from slightly below horizontal, to true vertical, and possibly beyond. The range of kegal force should be at least 90 degrees, and possibly more. This is why he did not come up with the true conclusions concerning the LOT theory.

The order of the drawings got screwed up. I will try to get this right:

In the third Gray's drawing, it shows some examples of the direction of kegal force coming off of the pubic bone.

The second Gray's drawing shows his possible directions of kegal force.

The first Gray's drawing shows an example, using the Gray's model, of how his model COULD work.

Notice the Gray's model has a low LOT. The shaft exits under the pubic bone, but does not follow the pubic bone up at all. This is because, as you can see, the ligs are long and loose enough in the drawing.

Click to expand...

DLD, can you explain what BIB meant in regards to properly executing kegal force? Is he saying the force should come from behind the bulb/pubic bone point? And he also must be referring to the Reverse Kegal, because regular kegal squeeze force is only felt in the available outer penis?

I'm just curious because I usually execute RK force from the bladder, prostate gland, all surrounding prostate connections, triangular and suspensory ligaments, the dorsal vein,and basically all the areas leading up to the bulb or exit point I guess it is called. So basically I'm generating RK force within all those regions or at least most of them. Can you explain if this is correct and what exactly Bib is saying, especially in regards to what he means by true kegal force coming from slightly below horizontal or true vertical?

I made no change and did not edit this post. It was a slip of my finger accidently hitting the edit button.>:s
ADF

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Re: Interesting Conversation on Ligament Stretching
Originally Posted by MCTFB
I agree with Bib except with one caveat. When you stretch your legs, arms, or any other body part, you will gain flexibility over time (lengthening of ligs and connective tissues). After a year or so of doing no stretching, you will lose a lot of flexibility...
But when stretching other bodyparts like legs and such, most of the stretching is occurring at the muscle and not the ligs. Yes there is some lig stretching happening, but very little when comapred to the muscle. The muscles are much more pliable when compared to collagenous tissues. I believe that gains from stretched ligs are permanet since they are aren't very elastic so once they've been expanded they will tend to stay that way, but gains from stretching muscles are not. I've taken months off from Penis Enlargement without losing any of my gains.

When stretching the penis, since the majority of the stretch is focussed on collagenous tissues (ligs and tunica), i can't agree with you.
Last edited by ADF; Today at 08:55 AM.

k18;599247 said:

DLD, can you explain what BIB meant in regards to properly executing kegal force? Is he saying the force should come from behind the bulb/pubic bone point? And he also must be referring to the Reverse Kegal, because regular kegal squeeze force is only felt in the available outer penis?

I'm just curious because I usually execute RK force from the bladder, prostate gland, all surrounding prostate connections, triangular and suspensory ligaments, the dorsal vein,and basically all the areas leading up to the bulb or exit point I guess it is called. So basically I'm generating RK force within all those regions or at least most of them. Can you explain if this is correct and what exactly Bib is saying, especially in regards to what he means by true kegal force coming from slightly below horizontal or true vertical?

Click to expand...

The force comes from all CORE muscles and Bib is referring to using this power in "proper execution" In a Reverse Kegel the push should encompass as much of the CORE muscles as possible. In most cases you will feel this in you lower abs, pelvic floor muscles and the anus.

doublelongdaddy;599310 said:

The force comes from all CORE muscles and Bib is referring to using this power in "proper execution" In a Reverse Kegel the push should encompass as much of the CORE muscles as possible. In most cases you will feel this in you lower abs, pelvic floor muscles and the anus.

Click to expand...

I do, but in a Normal Kegel I only feel my penis and anal. We are on the same page in terms of RK's, but are you also suggesting sending a bit of nearby force from the core muscles to aid the Normal Kegel as well? I've tested that and it's ineffective in producing anything extra. Recently though, what I have been testing is combining an RK with an NK, either simultaneously or in sequence, and it's superb but I don't know if it's safe, I'm assuming it's fine because I'm just flexing/using two different regions, we do that all the time in different areas of body, but it's still a bit of a strange feeling.

k18;599353 said:

I do, but in a Normal Kegel I only feel my penis and anal. We are on the same page in terms of RK's, but are you also suggesting sending a bit of nearby force from the core muscles to aid the Normal Kegel as well? I've tested that and it's ineffective in producing anything extra. Recently though, what I have been testing is combining an RK with an NK, either simultaneously or in sequence, and it's superb but I don't know if it's safe, I'm assuming it's fine because I'm just flexing/using two different regions, we do that all the time in different areas of body, but it's still a bit of a strange feeling.

Click to expand...

I think men feel them in different places depending how developed the use of those particular muscles are. I do a lot of CORE exercise and I think this lends to more strength when engaging the pelvic floor muscles. In a Reverse Kegel there is a void of muscular flex, a push to release all muscle interference.