Do you believe in god? the gods discussion thread

[Shooting for 7"]

Gotta assume you don't have kids then. Babies think about eating and gas, that's about it lol. One can use semantics to prove any argument. There is no question that faith is something one learns about, and certainly not as a baby. If "faith in a god" was inherent-then there would be no atheists. So stretch this concept of "god" all you like, but there's no indication that one baby would know what you are talking about. And the closest thing in theism that you are describing here would be LDS-so maybe you're a mormon and just don't know it yet!

Crazy Doc I do have a child and let me tell you this - he teaches me so much....about life and how to live it. I assume you have children (by the way you asked me if I did), and no disrespect to you at all, but maybe you aren't very observant ?

Sure babies (not children) care about eating and gassing, but that's done subconsciously, without thinking, just like their breathing etc.

But let me ask you this question..... what do you see is your purpose ?? I mean your higher purpose ?? What are you here on earth, living, for ?? Do you think you have no purpose, that you don't fit with the rest of society, with the human race, with the collective consciousness of those around you and further afield ??

I'm interested in your take on this.

By the way, I suggest to you that children are far more understanding AND ACCEPTING of what 'god' is, it's adults that have the issues......(erm, I wonder where they got those from....)

Peace.

 

[Shooting for 7"]

If the doctrines are TRUE, there is really no way to twist them. You can't blame man for all the bad and give some god credit for all the good. If what you say were true-then ALL RELIGIONS would kill in the same per capita ratio, yet they DON'T. This indicates a problem with some doctrines, therefore religions, NOT WITH MEN.

Wow, Crazy Doc, I think you do all your thinking from your head and very little, if any, from your heart.....

I'll keep this brief - since I'm not that good at explaining these sorts of things very well !

What if, Crazy Doc, this were the scenario.....

Accept that God has us here to simply be on the planet to love, be truthful and experience joy (to create and to evolve). Suspend any opinions you may have and just follow this for a second. Now, also accept that God doesn't judge us, he has given us FREE WILL to do as we please, but were he to guide us (and he does, in many, many ways by the way), he'd say to do what best serves and assists your fellow man. This is from the heart and with love. With me so far ?? Now, man, in his 'wisdom' and over the centuries develops an ego, has fear, has greed, wants power, wants the quick easy way, messes up this plan - because he starts using his head more and his heart less. Other men soon follow (they are 'human' after all and their egos get in the way as well, too much 'thinking' - i.e. "why should he be allowed to get away with it.."). All the while, God merely observes, never judges, never condemns man to 'hell' (because, actually, there is no such thing as 'hell', just as there is no such thing as a 'devil'. These are all man made constructs to put fear in other men).

So, God has to take the 'blame' in your eyes ?? Why ?? You talk about 'religion'. Why blame God for that ?? What 'good' has man done which should have God step aside since he had no part in it and watch man take the credit ?? The space shuttle or the Hubble telescope ?? The Theory of Relativity ?? Are you saying that man invented these things ?? Or are you willing to accept that man discovered these technologies and put them to good use ?? Surely you are not saying that man is that 'better', that cleverer than God ?? Man is merely discovering that which already exists and making it real (from imagination first).

All I ask is you be a bit more open - think a bit more openly. And don't be so fearful of the unknown and of those who might just be a little more aware/enlightened than yourself and who are coming from love with knowledge about that you know nothing about.

With peace to you.

 

[Crazy Doc]

Wow, Crazy Doc, I think you do all your thinking from your head and very little, if any, from your heart.....

I'll keep this brief - since I'm not that good at explaining these sorts of things very well !

What if, Crazy Doc, this were the scenario.....

Accept that God has us here to simply be on the planet to love, be truthful and experience joy (to create and to evolve). Suspend any opinions you may have and just follow this for a second. Now, also accept that God doesn't judge us, he has given us FREE WILL to do as we please, but were he to guide us (and he does, in many, many ways by the way), he'd say to do what best serves and assists your fellow man. This is from the heart and with love. With me so far ?? Now, man, in his 'wisdom' and over the centuries develops an ego, has fear, has greed, wants power, wants the quick easy way, messes up this plan - because he starts using his head more and his heart less. Other men soon follow (they are 'human' after all and their egos get in the way as well, too much 'thinking' - i.e. "why should he be allowed to get away with it.."). All the while, God merely observes, never judges, never condemns man to 'hell' (because, actually, there is no such thing as 'hell', just as there is no such thing as a 'devil'. These are all man made constructs to put fear in other men).

So, God has to take the 'blame' in your eyes ?? Why ?? You talk about 'religion'. Why blame God for that ?? What 'good' has man done which should have God step aside since he had no part in it and watch man take the credit ?? The space shuttle or the Hubble telescope ?? The Theory of Relativity ?? Are you saying that man invented these things ?? Or are you willing to accept that man discovered these technologies and put them to good use ?? Surely you are not saying that man is that 'better', that cleverer than God ?? Man is merely discovering that which already exists and making it real (from imagination first).

All I ask is you be a bit more open - think a bit more openly. And don't be so fearful of the unknown and of those who might just be a little more aware/enlightened than yourself and who are coming from love with knowledge about that you know nothing about.

With peace to you.

The issue was NOT god vs man, it was religion vs man on the issue of fault. And statistics will show that religion is to blame-again, otherwise, the doctrine would be irrelevant, evil men would corrupt anything.... yet ... THEY DON'T. But to take it a step further-yes, these gods are indeed DEFINED by their respective doctrines -so if you want to blame the god for the doctrine and all the mayhem it may cause since the doctrine claims the god wrote it through men... well, then I'll go along with that. But the issue here then depends on what the doctrine says, not what you interpret god as-the latter is quite irrelevant to my claims.

 

[Crazy Doc]

Crazy Doc I do have a child and let me tell you this - he teaches me so much....about life and how to live it. I assume you have children (by the way you asked me if I did), and no disrespect to you at all, but maybe you aren't very observant ?

Sure babies (not children) care about eating and gassing, but that's done subconsciously, without thinking, just like their breathing etc.

But let me ask you this question..... what do you see is your purpose ?? I mean your higher purpose ?? What are you here on earth, living, for ?? Do you think you have no purpose, that you don't fit with the rest of society, with the human race, with the collective consciousness of those around you and further afield ??

I'm interested in your take on this.

By the way, I suggest to you that children are far more understanding AND ACCEPTING of what 'god' is, it's adults that have the issues......(erm, I wonder where they got those from....)

Peace.

My purpose contradicts any concept of a higher power. My purpose is to find true happiness here and now, in this world. And children are not the issue, babies are. Children can be corrupted into thinking it's ok to hit or be abused... yet that belief doesn't make it right, it makes it corruption and nothing more. Babies are clean slates-they know nothing, and they certainly have no knowledge of faith or gods only of their needs-stay on point, the point at hand is BABIES not children, big difference.

I don't deny that you believe in some concept of a god. You know why? Because you have a monopoly on YOUR beliefs. By the same token, it's quite arrogant for you or ANYONE to say broad things like "everyone believes in some concept of god, whether they know it or not". Because you are wrong. Some claims could be made-for example, in Confucianism, they have no concept of "god", but they do believe in "Heaven" but not like the westerner thinks of heaven. More like a force of destiny, or perhaps like George Washington's "Divine Providence". I'll accept a stretch like that - that Confucianism could be argued as both Theist and Atheist, depending on how you interpret the word "theist". But there is no question (to the educated) that there are Atheists out there, and that the majority of them never heard of a god and have no concept of it that you have described, nor otherwise. There is no need in some of our minds for a "higher power" or anything else. To try to twist someone else's beliefs to make yourself feel cozy in your beliefs is also selfish if you ask me lol.

 

[Crazy Doc]

I think a higher power is always a part of belief of existence. I think everyone has a higher power but it may be defined as something completely different.

I just said several times that I have no higher power... So I guess you think you know my mind better than I do DLD? Also, please elaborate on your first statement-demonstrate how a higher power MUST be part of belief in existence? I'm truly curious.

 

[DLD]

I just said several times that I have no higher power... So I guess you think you know my mind better than I do DLD? Also, please elaborate on your first statement-demonstrate how a higher power MUST be part of belief in existence? I'm truly curious.

Do you talk to yourself in your mind? How do you make choices? It is the consciousness that is the higher power. The sense of self and the conversations with self are just like prayers or meditation, it is all the same. Religion puts names and faces to this but ALL Penis EnlargementOPLE have consciousness and this is that sense of self that I am referring to.

 

[Crazy Doc]

Do you talk to yourself in your mind? How do you make choices? It is the consciousness that is the higher power. The sense of self and the conversations with self are just like prayers or meditation, it is all the same. Religion puts names and faces to this but ALL Penis EnlargementOPLE have consciousness and this is that sense of self that I am referring to.

"Sense of self"? yes. "Higher Power"? No, and you've not demonstrated that. You can call it that, sure, but you've not connected the two to show it. I can claim my penis is Jesus Christ too... but I can't imagine how I'd show it to be true as I'm not willing to put any nails in my balls.

 

[Alex78]

Do you talk to yourself in your mind? How do you make choices? It is the consciousness that is the higher power. The sense of self and the conversations with self are just like prayers or meditation, it is all the same. Religion puts names and faces to this but ALL Penis EnlargementOPLE have consciousness and this is that sense of self that I am referring to.

Well knowing that Providence or God or Higher Power exists does not really give you relief, knowing that your consciousness is linked or a masked mirror of god, does not help you, we all just utter the words of saints and preachers, but none of us with a direct link to the ones we so much want.
I have never met enlightened ones but read and talked about them..
I do want to believe, i do want...but years of fruitless meditation gave no hope.... i still believe, maybe not for me, maybe Providence does play favorites among men....

 

[Crazy Doc]

Well knowing that Providence or God or Higher Power exists does not really give you relief, knowing that your consciousness is linked or a masked mirror of god, does not help you, we all just utter the words of saints and preachers, but none of us with a direct link to the ones we so much want.
I have never met enlightened ones but read and talked about them..
I do want to believe, i do want...but years of fruitless meditation gave no hope.... i still believe, maybe not for me, maybe Providence does play favorites among men....

I have been fortunate enough to have what I would call "moments of truth" through meditation (chanting)... And I learned the following: That everything I thought I knew was wrong and that I really knew nothing, that it perhaps may require the depths of despair to find oneself (the most beautiful blossom comes out of the mud?), that eternity (past, present, and future) are in the moment, that I control my own destiny and always had (which meant I could not blame anyone for anything that happened to me-it was all MY doing), and that wisdom is NOT property-you cannot own it, you can only appreciate it and try to hold on to it when you have it-but it has NOTHING to do with age, experience, or knowledge, it is simply awareness of life, of the self.

And I am fortunate, one who never seeks will never find, and even when one seeks-without sincerity, efforts are almost worthless. Sincerity is the key, as only through sincerity can one find the humility to discover truth/wisdom, but true sincerity is a hard thing to drum up in the darkened, karmic, human mind.

 

[REDZULU2003]

Crazy Doc you seem to know allot about this stuff I grant you that. Much more than I do thats for certain. I would appreictae if you shared more of your actual knowledge on meditation and that portion to your life in new threads within this section. You would be the first ''expert'' if you like that has posted in here on such topics as meditation and has so much knowledge on it so please feel free to make new threads and add topics, not just to this one but thats not a hint saying shut the fuck up ... keep going all day everyday if you like, that is what MOS is here for ... its very much now become a virtual psychiatrist and counselling session rolled into one

 

[Crazy Doc]

Crazy Doc you seem to know allot about this stuff I grant you that. Much more than I do thats for certain. I would appreictae if you shared more of your actual knowledge on meditation and that portion to your life in new threads within this section. You would be the first ''expert'' if you like that has posted in here on such topics as meditation and has so much knowledge on it so please feel free to make new threads and add topics, not just to this one but thats not a hint saying shut the fuck up ... keep going all day everyday if you like, that is what MOS is here for ... its very much now become a virtual psychiatrist and counselling session rolled into one

Well zulu-I know A LOT about a very FEW things Faith is pretty personal to me, so I don't know how much I'd want to go into it on an open forum. Meditation also, is very broad. I know a lot about chanting to a mandala, which is one way to do it-and it is the core of my faith. I also recite the sutra (Lotus Sutra). I do really enjoy discussing theology in general, be it mine or someone else's. The only other thing I would say here is that-meditation DOES work if done properly, but the benefit is wisdom-and wisdom is not really something easy to describe, ya? Either way, I'm always willing to answer questions if asked-but it's just not my style to start preaching or lecturing about my faith, unless someone brings up something I feel the need to respond to, or I'm asked directly about it.

Also-let me clarify, again, wisdom is NOT property-so yes, I've done it right before and Yes, in those moments I was wise... and you don't forget truth, but wisdom is not KNOWING the truth, it is living it-that's the part that is slippery and hard to hold onto. Anyone can get knowledge, wisdom is in the moment alone.
Point being-I'm not very wise anymore.

 

[MAXAMEYES]

I always gotta chuckle when I hear folks say things like "I have no higher power" or, "I'm totally in control of my own destiny".
I chuckle because if these folks have to ever bail out of a flaming aircraft they will believe, without a doubt, that at least fire and gravity are far higher powers than they are.

On the way down I guarantee prayers will be offered to everything from God to pencil shavings and destiny, gravity, fire, the all-too-sudden-stop at the bottom...whatever will not give one single shit for those who are praying.

Sometimes circumstance has all the good cards.

 

[Crazy Doc]

I always gotta chuckle when I hear folks say things like "I have no higher power" or, "I'm totally in control of my own destiny".
I chuckle because if these folks have to ever bail out of a flaming aircraft they will believe, without a doubt, that at least fire and gravity are far higher powers than they are.

On the way down I guarantee prayers will be offered to everything from God to pencil shavings and destiny, gravity, fire, the all-too-sudden-stop at the bottom...whatever will not give one single shit for those who are praying.

Sometimes circumstance has all the good cards.

Nonsense, those are EARTHLY powers. Higher Powers are not just anything you can think of folks-they mean something greater, something greater than what we see. And Max, how do you know my faith hasn't been tested in the face of death already? So by your logic, even folks that never heard of a god would pray to one, perhaps a random one if they fell off a building or something? That's really stupid dude. Faith is. Obviously if I fell out of a plane, or whatever, I'd practice MY faith-it's COMPLETELY idiotic max to say you know I'd suddenly drop my faith and practice some other faith-I mean really, that's one of the silliest things I've heard this year.

Do tell, why would I do that? Wouldn't I practice my faith-the thing I believe in? Why would I suddenly drop my beliefs and practice someone else's faith? That makes no sense. And just because you don't realize you're in control of your destiny max-doesn't mean you are not.

Let's say a drunk driver crashes into someone and causes them paralysis. Let's look at the potential destiny options here:

1/ An all knowing but good god did this-to test the victim's faith (for the rest of their life).
2/ Chance.
3/ Karma: Something they did caused that to happen-they pulled it into their life, after all it happened to THEM, not the guy in front of them, not the guy behind.

Consider now which one sounds the most ridiculous to you!

Also Max-it is a bit foolish to assume everyone sees things the way you do. I don't fear death. I fear an incomplete life. Death to me is just as natural, and just as painful as being born. I don't see it as a bad thing. It is unlikely you and I view death the same way on any level due to different beliefs and culture. But go ahead and assume everyone thinks like you do-I'm sure I'm just confused and you know more about my life and behavior and that of all others - than I do and they do.

*bows down to max the great*

 

[Crazy Doc]

I always gotta chuckle when I hear folks say things like "I have no higher power" or, "I'm totally in control of my own destiny".
I chuckle because if these folks have to ever bail out of a flaming aircraft they will believe, without a doubt, that at least fire and gravity are far higher powers than they are.

On the way down I guarantee prayers will be offered to everything from God to pencil shavings and destiny, gravity, fire, the all-too-sudden-stop at the bottom...whatever will not give one single shit for those who are praying.

Sometimes circumstance has all the good cards.

Also-to counter your specific point about fire. I'd mention an example to prove you wrong, and that you don't know people as well as you think.

During the Vietnam War, Buddhist Monks set themselves on fire, on fucking fire, in protest. And max, they didn't scream, they didn't blink. They sat in perfect silence and stillness as fire burned the flesh off their bodies-and consumed them to their deaths. So even if you wish to argue fire is more powerful (and therefore "higher") than man-those men proved you WRONG. Clearly they were more powerful than fire as it had no effect on their minds.

Isn't it possible Max that you've underestimated the true power of the human mind?

Lastly-while Buddhist, those men I describe are nothing like my sect, quite irrelevant to my faith-but they did demonstrate that your point about fire is quite false.

Go to about 1:00, apparently they won't show the video (censored), but this still tells the story.
[video=youtube;OuSHA0OKEkc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuSHA0OKEkc[/video]

 

[Crazy Doc]

Ah here we go, here's the real deal:

FIRE IS NOT A HIGHER POWER... Man possesses every power there is, therefore there is no higher power, nor any lower power, for all things have the same power...
This video is quite harsh:


[video=youtube;rjpAh4rqTv4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjpAh4rqTv4[/video]

 

[MAXAMEYES]

And yet, I didn't name anyone in particular. Did I?

 

[Crazy Doc]

And yet, I didn't name anyone in particular. Did I?

Of course you did, you named me-you quoted someone and that someone was me. What kind of mickey mouse horseshit is that, quit backpeddling.
My point about fire, higher powers, how men will react to death is based on reason, and evidence.
Yours is more like wishful thinking-I guess that debate is over.
The closed mind chuckles a lot!

 

[MAXAMEYES]

And you assume I have an agenda.

 

[Crazy Doc]

And you assume I have an agenda.

Not at all, I assume you think you know everything as you seem to scoff at everything new

 

[MAXAMEYES]

(chuckles)
Believe me, nothing you've posted is new. Nothing.

Not at all, I assume you think you know everything as you seem to scoff at everything new