- Joined
- Sep 12, 2003
- Messages
- 668
This is from that penissizedebate.com website. The site is total shit, but after first seeing it I sometimes check the comments, more for a laugh than anything. It's always a mix of insane and stupid people posting about 14" penises and the problems they cause, and a few people commenting on the ridiculous nature of the site. Anyway, I'm nor sure how authentic this is, but I found it interesting and it is similar to some estimations I've posted in the past.
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TheDoctor:
Ladies and gentlemen. I was directed to this site by a colleague/friend who found the premise interesting but the results, frankly, misleading at best and grossly exploitative at worst.
Here are a number of statistical facts to add to "the debate". Granted, many here might find such treatment as worthless or unintelligable, if one is not versed in basic probability theory. Okay, here we go.
First, using numerous clinical survey data (Kinsey, Lifestyle Condoms, etc.), i.e., mean average length of approximately 6 inches long and 4.8 inches in girth or circumference), the "ideal" penis size from the related table is possessed by no more than 1-2 men out of 100 (for the "less endowed" man of "ideal" size) and as few as 3-4 out of 10,000 men (for the men with the largest "ideal" dimensions).
Next, how many women will likely experience such size (apart from a sex toy)? Well, given the consistency of cross-national survey data from the US, Canada, and the UK indicating the average number of sexual partners women aged 18-54 have (reported anonymously) in a lifetime being around 8-9 (more often reported as the only 3-5 partners when fear of identity being revealed), the typical female would have the probability of encountering the "ideal" penis as follows:
Modest "ideal" penis:
At least one:*** ~14%-15%.
*"** "** two:******** ~2%.
*"** "** three:**** ~0.3%.
Largest "ideal" penis:
At least one:****** ~0.3%.
*"** "** two:**** ~0.001%.
How many sexual partners would a woman have to have to increase her probability to 50% of encountering "one" man with the "ideal" size range? ~40 for the modest "ideal" size and ~1,700+ for the large "ideal" size.
Moreover, consider that the probability of a woman having sex with at least one man 7 inches long, given 8-9 sexual partners, is only ~32%; however, encountering a man with 7 inches or more AND larger girth of, say, 5 1/2 inches or more is only ~15%; two partners is ~2%. The probability of having sex with a penis of 7 1/2 inches or more and 5 1/2 inches of girth or more is ~9%-10%; two partners of this size only ~1%.
Therefore, the bottom line is that a VERY large majority of women, i.e., ~85%, will NEVER EXPenis EnlargementRIENCE what is technically a "large" penis in terms of length AND girth. Thus, any discernible preference for a larger-than-average penis is likely to be conditioned by the experience of no more than 10%-15% of women, a siginficant portion of whom are more promisucous, i.e., have many more sexual partners than average in order to increase the probability of encountering a larger penis.
For the other 85% of women, however, they are likely to experience no more than 1-2 men with penises larger than the average range of 5 1/4 inches to 6 1/2 inches with girth in the range of 4 1/2" to 5 1/4 inches. For these women, they will be inclined not to know if "size matters" with respect to having a preference for a larger penis, as the size that matters to them will be that possessed by 9 out of 10 men.
Now, the inferences above should not in any way be construed to assume that women who will never experience a large penis will not at some point in their sexually active lives be curious about and/or fantasize about sex with a large penis. Human nature suggests that many if not most will be curious and/or fantasize with a partner or privately while masturbating, for example.
Most of my former partners spent considerable time caressing, fondling, licking, kissing, stroking, and looking at my penis in various states of full or partial erection, possibly because it was more alluring to touch and look at than to experience inside their bodies.
Furthermore, women who will never experience a large penis (let alone encounter the so-called "ideal" penis) might have a tendency to overestimate average or slightly larger than average, e.g., 6 1/2-6 3/4 inches, as large "for them". And, whether these women inaccurately (technically, that is) perceive a man as large (and more desirable in her mind) will tend to be affected by such intangibles as her degree of emotional committment, socioeconomic security, "recency effect" (tendency to remember as as most relevant messages or experiences most recently experienced), desire to buttress their oen status, and so on.*
In the interest of disclosure, fully erect/engorged and along the top with the fat pad pressed down to the pubic bone (the way we researchers prefer to do it, but there is legitimate reasons to use other methods to yield only slightly different results), I measure slightly less than ~6 inches flaccid and a full 8 inches long erect (as much as 8 1/2 inches long using a tape following the contour of my penis which angles slightly upward) by slightly more than 5 1/2 inches in girth, not "ideal" by the premise of this site, but more than 3 standard deviations from average for length and 1 1/2 standard deviations for girth.
I have been married for 10-11 years, was monogomaous with my wife 4-5 years before marrying, and had approximately 25 partners before my wife (most occurring from age ~20-25 with women aged 18-19 to 22-23 with limited sexual experience). Without exception I was considered larger than any partner had previously had, "very large" by I estimate half of the partners, and simply "huge" or virtually intolerable for perhaps one-third of women, ranging from petite and a little over 5' tall to as tall as 5'6" to 5' 7".
My wife confided that I am significantly larger than all of her previous sexual partners. Of the largest she recalled, he would have been an inch and a half or more shorter and with less girth, owing to her recollection that the largest partner's penis was not long enough for her to get two hands along the length, whereas she gets two hands on me with virtually my whole head to spare (she has average-sized hands).
With the possible exception of the woman on top (one of my wife's favorite) controlling depth and my thrusting angle and speed (including with my wife today after two children), I could not engage in full thrusting of my length in any position without significant discomfort to my partners to the point of having to change positions and/or thrust less deeply or cease activity altogether due to severe discomfort for my partners in numerous instances. In the worst cases from my early sexual experiences (when I was far less sophisticated in my technique), even after extended foreplay and heightened arousal, the responses from the partners ranged from crying out in pain, cursing me in anger and frustration, and hysterical laughter and embarrassment turning to tears from discomfort and air being forceably released from distended vaginas during thrusting or after I withdrew my penis.
One curious aspect of women's ways of dealing with the novel experience of a large penis was several instances in which I heard indirectly that they had commented to girlfriends or boasted about my size and relative prowess, several times after we were no longer having sex. In some of these cases, the encounter might have been perceived after the fact as a kind of accomplishment or conquest on their part, despite having experienced discomfort.
As to the illustrations on this site showing a penis of 9+ inches distending the fornix of the vagina well into the abdominal cavity, forget it. These illustrations detract greatly from credibility the site's author might desire (assuming that this site is not a farce). In my experience, for the vast majority of women, such a situation would be utterly unbearable. The connecting tissue interface of the uterus/cervix and fornix is flexible but not as pliable as shown, especially for younger women with limited sexual experience and/or those who have not had children. Such a stretching of the back of the vagina risks cervical bruising and possible trauma and hemmorrhaging of the uterus/cervix. I was able routinely (and still do with my wife) to encounter the cervix and fornix with mostly displeasure from my partners. The possible exception to this was/is penetration without thrusting into the cervix or fornix, merely remaining erect and stationary while making contact with or d!
*istending the fornix. Some (a minority) partners (including my wife) found/find this pleasureable from the perspective that they felt/feel totally filled up and then some but without the anxiety of discomfort. Most partners refused to suBathmateit to this deep penetration any longer than they could to tell me to stop.
Also, in my experience, the increased friction from the combination of much longer length than average and larger girth resulted in numerous incidents of leaving partners quite sore and unable to engage in intercourse in subsequent days (even without full penetration and deep thrusting). Along with not being permitted to thrust deeply, as a young man (as I look back now), the soreness experienced by my partners contributed to my periodic dissatisfaction with many or most of my partners, encouraging me to be more promiscuous than I would have personally liked to be, i.e., would have rather had a monogomous, committed relationship.
As a practicing urologist and clinical researcher, I estimate that I have seen approximately 7,000-8,000 penises of men of all ages and ethnicities. The overwhelming majority fall into the "average" range, whereas perhaps only 3-4 out of 100 would be considered large or very large, the same holding for small or very small. The caveat I would add to this is that, whereas blacks overall tend to conform to the normal distribution of penis size, the larger black penises are larger on average, i.e., flaccid length and girth. The largest penis I have ever personally witnessed was possessed by a young, tall (6'5") black man at more than 6 inches long while flaccid and perhaps 2 inches wide (~6 1/2 inches in circumference), essentially as large flaccid as the average erection for all men. Using the research data showing the average growth of penis length and girth from flaccid to erect states, this man probably had an erection of over 9 inches and perhaps as large as being in the 10!
* inch range with girth over 7 inches, outside the "ideal" penis range, to be sure.
The next largest group would be those of my size of which it is quite rare, perhaps only 1%-2% at most (a few more than 100 in total in 11-12 years of practicing). Two noteworthy penises were possessed by a man of Arab extraction and a Sudanese man (both ~6 inches flaccid but noticeably thicker than I am), both likely 8-9 inches erect but with girth perhaps in the upper 6 to 7 inch range.
Where does this leave us? Well, does size matter? Clearly, for the vast majority of women, it depends upon "which size" to which one is referring. For 80%-85% of women who will never experience even a large penis, let alone the "ideal" organ, size is in the context of 5 1/4 inches to 6 1/2 inches in length and no more than 5 to 5 1/4 inches in girth; to them, "that" size matters but perhaps not much more.
For the 15% of women with a statistically significant probability of experiencing at least one large penis (by length AND girth) in their lifetime (~2% experience 2 such penises), whereas only ~3%-4% of women will ever be with a man with a large penis in a monogamous relationship at any one time, size also likely matters but perhaps not in the way one might first imagine. For many of these women (virtually all in my case, including my dear wife), there is a size that is too big for many or most positions; therefore, one can further infer that only 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 4 women who experience a large penis will remain with the man, so 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 women who experience a large penis will have found it perhaps novel or intriguing but not compatible, ultimately, and they will never experience a large penis again.
So, ladies and gentlemen, consider as you drive the freeways and byways and walk the streets and malls of your cities, only 3-4 adult males out of 100 you see on any given day are technically "large" with ~1% or less, i.e., a few per 1,000 men, being "very large" or possessing the "ideal" penis.
Further, 8-9 out of 10 women you see will not have had and will never experience a large penis, let alone the "ideal" penis; and, of the 10-15 out of 100 women who do experience a large or very large penis, only ~4 of them will be currently with the man with a large or very large penis.
In the larger context, then, whether women prefer or desire a large penis is an abstraction and perhaps more of a "mystique" or novelty, as the vast majority of women will not actually know for certain if they prefer a large penis, as they will not experience one; most of the small minority of women who will experience a large penis will not end up in a committed relationship with a man with a large penis.
So, for you 80%+ of guys out there with erections of 5 1/4 inches to less than 7 inches in length and 4 1/2 inches to 5 1/4 inches in girth, it is "your" relative size which 8-9 out of women are conditioned to expect to experience and actually do experience and/or come to commit to. Nature selected your size to impregnate females and populate the Earth with we human beings (for better or worse). Enjoy yourselves!
**************************************************
TheDoctor:
Ladies and gentlemen. I was directed to this site by a colleague/friend who found the premise interesting but the results, frankly, misleading at best and grossly exploitative at worst.
Here are a number of statistical facts to add to "the debate". Granted, many here might find such treatment as worthless or unintelligable, if one is not versed in basic probability theory. Okay, here we go.
First, using numerous clinical survey data (Kinsey, Lifestyle Condoms, etc.), i.e., mean average length of approximately 6 inches long and 4.8 inches in girth or circumference), the "ideal" penis size from the related table is possessed by no more than 1-2 men out of 100 (for the "less endowed" man of "ideal" size) and as few as 3-4 out of 10,000 men (for the men with the largest "ideal" dimensions).
Next, how many women will likely experience such size (apart from a sex toy)? Well, given the consistency of cross-national survey data from the US, Canada, and the UK indicating the average number of sexual partners women aged 18-54 have (reported anonymously) in a lifetime being around 8-9 (more often reported as the only 3-5 partners when fear of identity being revealed), the typical female would have the probability of encountering the "ideal" penis as follows:
Modest "ideal" penis:
At least one:*** ~14%-15%.
*"** "** two:******** ~2%.
*"** "** three:**** ~0.3%.
Largest "ideal" penis:
At least one:****** ~0.3%.
*"** "** two:**** ~0.001%.
How many sexual partners would a woman have to have to increase her probability to 50% of encountering "one" man with the "ideal" size range? ~40 for the modest "ideal" size and ~1,700+ for the large "ideal" size.
Moreover, consider that the probability of a woman having sex with at least one man 7 inches long, given 8-9 sexual partners, is only ~32%; however, encountering a man with 7 inches or more AND larger girth of, say, 5 1/2 inches or more is only ~15%; two partners is ~2%. The probability of having sex with a penis of 7 1/2 inches or more and 5 1/2 inches of girth or more is ~9%-10%; two partners of this size only ~1%.
Therefore, the bottom line is that a VERY large majority of women, i.e., ~85%, will NEVER EXPenis EnlargementRIENCE what is technically a "large" penis in terms of length AND girth. Thus, any discernible preference for a larger-than-average penis is likely to be conditioned by the experience of no more than 10%-15% of women, a siginficant portion of whom are more promisucous, i.e., have many more sexual partners than average in order to increase the probability of encountering a larger penis.
For the other 85% of women, however, they are likely to experience no more than 1-2 men with penises larger than the average range of 5 1/4 inches to 6 1/2 inches with girth in the range of 4 1/2" to 5 1/4 inches. For these women, they will be inclined not to know if "size matters" with respect to having a preference for a larger penis, as the size that matters to them will be that possessed by 9 out of 10 men.
Now, the inferences above should not in any way be construed to assume that women who will never experience a large penis will not at some point in their sexually active lives be curious about and/or fantasize about sex with a large penis. Human nature suggests that many if not most will be curious and/or fantasize with a partner or privately while masturbating, for example.
Most of my former partners spent considerable time caressing, fondling, licking, kissing, stroking, and looking at my penis in various states of full or partial erection, possibly because it was more alluring to touch and look at than to experience inside their bodies.
Furthermore, women who will never experience a large penis (let alone encounter the so-called "ideal" penis) might have a tendency to overestimate average or slightly larger than average, e.g., 6 1/2-6 3/4 inches, as large "for them". And, whether these women inaccurately (technically, that is) perceive a man as large (and more desirable in her mind) will tend to be affected by such intangibles as her degree of emotional committment, socioeconomic security, "recency effect" (tendency to remember as as most relevant messages or experiences most recently experienced), desire to buttress their oen status, and so on.*
In the interest of disclosure, fully erect/engorged and along the top with the fat pad pressed down to the pubic bone (the way we researchers prefer to do it, but there is legitimate reasons to use other methods to yield only slightly different results), I measure slightly less than ~6 inches flaccid and a full 8 inches long erect (as much as 8 1/2 inches long using a tape following the contour of my penis which angles slightly upward) by slightly more than 5 1/2 inches in girth, not "ideal" by the premise of this site, but more than 3 standard deviations from average for length and 1 1/2 standard deviations for girth.
I have been married for 10-11 years, was monogomaous with my wife 4-5 years before marrying, and had approximately 25 partners before my wife (most occurring from age ~20-25 with women aged 18-19 to 22-23 with limited sexual experience). Without exception I was considered larger than any partner had previously had, "very large" by I estimate half of the partners, and simply "huge" or virtually intolerable for perhaps one-third of women, ranging from petite and a little over 5' tall to as tall as 5'6" to 5' 7".
My wife confided that I am significantly larger than all of her previous sexual partners. Of the largest she recalled, he would have been an inch and a half or more shorter and with less girth, owing to her recollection that the largest partner's penis was not long enough for her to get two hands along the length, whereas she gets two hands on me with virtually my whole head to spare (she has average-sized hands).
With the possible exception of the woman on top (one of my wife's favorite) controlling depth and my thrusting angle and speed (including with my wife today after two children), I could not engage in full thrusting of my length in any position without significant discomfort to my partners to the point of having to change positions and/or thrust less deeply or cease activity altogether due to severe discomfort for my partners in numerous instances. In the worst cases from my early sexual experiences (when I was far less sophisticated in my technique), even after extended foreplay and heightened arousal, the responses from the partners ranged from crying out in pain, cursing me in anger and frustration, and hysterical laughter and embarrassment turning to tears from discomfort and air being forceably released from distended vaginas during thrusting or after I withdrew my penis.
One curious aspect of women's ways of dealing with the novel experience of a large penis was several instances in which I heard indirectly that they had commented to girlfriends or boasted about my size and relative prowess, several times after we were no longer having sex. In some of these cases, the encounter might have been perceived after the fact as a kind of accomplishment or conquest on their part, despite having experienced discomfort.
As to the illustrations on this site showing a penis of 9+ inches distending the fornix of the vagina well into the abdominal cavity, forget it. These illustrations detract greatly from credibility the site's author might desire (assuming that this site is not a farce). In my experience, for the vast majority of women, such a situation would be utterly unbearable. The connecting tissue interface of the uterus/cervix and fornix is flexible but not as pliable as shown, especially for younger women with limited sexual experience and/or those who have not had children. Such a stretching of the back of the vagina risks cervical bruising and possible trauma and hemmorrhaging of the uterus/cervix. I was able routinely (and still do with my wife) to encounter the cervix and fornix with mostly displeasure from my partners. The possible exception to this was/is penetration without thrusting into the cervix or fornix, merely remaining erect and stationary while making contact with or d!
*istending the fornix. Some (a minority) partners (including my wife) found/find this pleasureable from the perspective that they felt/feel totally filled up and then some but without the anxiety of discomfort. Most partners refused to suBathmateit to this deep penetration any longer than they could to tell me to stop.
Also, in my experience, the increased friction from the combination of much longer length than average and larger girth resulted in numerous incidents of leaving partners quite sore and unable to engage in intercourse in subsequent days (even without full penetration and deep thrusting). Along with not being permitted to thrust deeply, as a young man (as I look back now), the soreness experienced by my partners contributed to my periodic dissatisfaction with many or most of my partners, encouraging me to be more promiscuous than I would have personally liked to be, i.e., would have rather had a monogomous, committed relationship.
As a practicing urologist and clinical researcher, I estimate that I have seen approximately 7,000-8,000 penises of men of all ages and ethnicities. The overwhelming majority fall into the "average" range, whereas perhaps only 3-4 out of 100 would be considered large or very large, the same holding for small or very small. The caveat I would add to this is that, whereas blacks overall tend to conform to the normal distribution of penis size, the larger black penises are larger on average, i.e., flaccid length and girth. The largest penis I have ever personally witnessed was possessed by a young, tall (6'5") black man at more than 6 inches long while flaccid and perhaps 2 inches wide (~6 1/2 inches in circumference), essentially as large flaccid as the average erection for all men. Using the research data showing the average growth of penis length and girth from flaccid to erect states, this man probably had an erection of over 9 inches and perhaps as large as being in the 10!
* inch range with girth over 7 inches, outside the "ideal" penis range, to be sure.
The next largest group would be those of my size of which it is quite rare, perhaps only 1%-2% at most (a few more than 100 in total in 11-12 years of practicing). Two noteworthy penises were possessed by a man of Arab extraction and a Sudanese man (both ~6 inches flaccid but noticeably thicker than I am), both likely 8-9 inches erect but with girth perhaps in the upper 6 to 7 inch range.
Where does this leave us? Well, does size matter? Clearly, for the vast majority of women, it depends upon "which size" to which one is referring. For 80%-85% of women who will never experience even a large penis, let alone the "ideal" organ, size is in the context of 5 1/4 inches to 6 1/2 inches in length and no more than 5 to 5 1/4 inches in girth; to them, "that" size matters but perhaps not much more.
For the 15% of women with a statistically significant probability of experiencing at least one large penis (by length AND girth) in their lifetime (~2% experience 2 such penises), whereas only ~3%-4% of women will ever be with a man with a large penis in a monogamous relationship at any one time, size also likely matters but perhaps not in the way one might first imagine. For many of these women (virtually all in my case, including my dear wife), there is a size that is too big for many or most positions; therefore, one can further infer that only 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 4 women who experience a large penis will remain with the man, so 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 women who experience a large penis will have found it perhaps novel or intriguing but not compatible, ultimately, and they will never experience a large penis again.
So, ladies and gentlemen, consider as you drive the freeways and byways and walk the streets and malls of your cities, only 3-4 adult males out of 100 you see on any given day are technically "large" with ~1% or less, i.e., a few per 1,000 men, being "very large" or possessing the "ideal" penis.
Further, 8-9 out of 10 women you see will not have had and will never experience a large penis, let alone the "ideal" penis; and, of the 10-15 out of 100 women who do experience a large or very large penis, only ~4 of them will be currently with the man with a large or very large penis.
In the larger context, then, whether women prefer or desire a large penis is an abstraction and perhaps more of a "mystique" or novelty, as the vast majority of women will not actually know for certain if they prefer a large penis, as they will not experience one; most of the small minority of women who will experience a large penis will not end up in a committed relationship with a man with a large penis.
So, for you 80%+ of guys out there with erections of 5 1/4 inches to less than 7 inches in length and 4 1/2 inches to 5 1/4 inches in girth, it is "your" relative size which 8-9 out of women are conditioned to expect to experience and actually do experience and/or come to commit to. Nature selected your size to impregnate females and populate the Earth with we human beings (for better or worse). Enjoy yourselves!
thats pretty sweet to know, yeah i agree with that whole getting to know real numbers will help men out. But besides gains/sizes health isimportant!
