Seizing the day getting under 200

youknowme123321;543625 said:

you are living in the 1980's and 90's. That only works mathematically. People don't actually realize how few calories are burned during exercise of varying intensity. My clients always take in more calories than they "burn." This keeps them energized and moving strong during exercise and their regular day. Exercise plus an abundance of calories from great sources keeps the body running strong, building muscle, and burning unhealthy/unneeded fat. Now wasting away which is what happens when people calories constrict.

It is true , a person can lose weight when they actually take in less calories then they burn. An average persons BathmateR is 1400-1800 (some sources say different). BathmateR differes from person to person depending on multiple factors. So this means that a person whose BathmateR is 1800 needs to take in 1800 calories a day just to meet basic metabolic function of everyday activity. 99% of trainers and people dont take BathmateR into account. So if a person calorie restricts to 1000 calories per day and actually burns 1500 calories in that same day they are not at a negative 500 calories for the day. They are at a negative 2300 calories. This much of a negative is very bad.

They should lose weight and plenty do. And they are unhappy. They feel like crap. Theyre sluggish, irritable, unable to concentrate. They crave junk food that they have always eaten. This is because their body has gone into starvation mode. A very bad place to be. This is why even when people lose weight they gain it back so quickly and gain back even more weight because they put their body into shock at a cellular and metabolic level and it needs more of a reserve for when this happens again.

Zambrodom3 - welcome to the world of diet and nutrition in 2013. We have the entire world at our fingertips. Start reading before imparting OLD and incorrect information on people.

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You talk about thing that I understand. The leptin levels fall down and that is why people use refeed/cheat days( carbohydrate cyclical techniques) to boost their leptin levels. And about the feeling like junk thing, yes, that is due to carbohydrates also. When you go on a carbohydrate restricted diet, that's what happens. And of course that good food choices is what always matters. You gotta know what kinds of carbs to consume( simple, complex, fibrous) , proteins(lean or not), and fats ( saturated, unsaturated- poly and mono, trans). And at the right times. Of course, I did not recommend him to go more than 500 calories under his maintenance (depends on LBathmate, fat% and sport level activity + age gender ,weight and height). I said nothing wrong. All I said was that there is calorie balance law and if one wants to lose weight, he must obey this rule. Would you argue that one can't lose weight if he eats more than his maintenance level? Because that's all I said, I don't see what part of the calorie balance law is inaccurate. Please explain to me what was actually wrong from what I said? We are currently talking about weight- not muscle mass or fat. I can be wrong, though. Please explain.

youknowme123321;543625 said:

you are living in the 1980's and 90's. That only works mathematically. People don't actually realize how few calories are burned during exercise of varying intensity. My clients always take in more calories than they "burn." This keeps them energized and moving strong during exercise and their regular day. Exercise plus an abundance of calories from great sources keeps the body running strong, building muscle, and burning unhealthy/unneeded fat. Now wasting away which is what happens when people calories constrict.

It is true , a person can lose weight when they actually take in less calories then they burn. An average persons BathmateR is 1400-1800 (some sources say different). BathmateR differes from person to person depending on multiple factors. So this means that a person whose BathmateR is 1800 needs to take in 1800 calories a day just to meet basic metabolic function of everyday activity. 99% of trainers and people dont take BathmateR into account. So if a person calorie restricts to 1000 calories per day and actually burns 1500 calories in that same day they are not at a negative 500 calories for the day. They are at a negative 2300 calories. This much of a negative is very bad.

They should lose weight and plenty do. And they are unhappy. They feel like crap. Theyre sluggish, irritable, unable to concentrate. They crave junk food that they have always eaten. This is because their body has gone into starvation mode. A very bad place to be. This is why even when people lose weight they gain it back so quickly and gain back even more weight because they put their body into shock at a cellular and metabolic level and it needs more of a reserve for when this happens again.

Zambrodom3 - welcome to the world of diet and nutrition in 2013. We have the entire world at our fingertips. Start reading before imparting OLD and incorrect information on people.

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i dont think you understand what he said.. if you have a large surplus with little attention to diet, at the end of the day unless you do loads of physical activity, you will likely be in a calorie surplus, and therefore not lose weight. so if your maintenance is 3000, and you burn 2000 doing intense exercise, but are consuming 6000, youre still at a surplus of 1000, hence wont lose weight/ will gain. this is what i got from it anyway, Zambrodom3 please correct me if i got the wrong idea from your post

jordey;543867 said:

i dont think you understand what he said.. if you have a large surplus with little attention to diet, at the end of the day unless you do loads of physical activity, you will likely be in a calorie surplus, and therefore not lose weight. so if your maintenance is 3000, and you burn 2000 doing intense exercise, but are consuming 6000, youre still at a surplus of 1000, hence wont lose weight/ will gain. this is what i got from it anyway, Zambrodom3 please correct me if i got the wrong idea from your post

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You got it right! That's what I meant, but maybe I did not use the right words, it is true I am not English and cannot express myself in a high level.

Good Stuff! Just catching up, glad to see things are going well!

Zambrodom3;543864 said:

You talk about thing that I understand. The leptin levels fall down and that is why people use refeed/cheat days( carbohydrate cyclical techniques) to boost their leptin levels. And about the feeling like junk thing, yes, that is due to carbohydrates also. When you go on a carbohydrate restricted diet, that's what happens. And of course that good food choices is what always matters. You gotta know what kinds of carbs to consume( simple, complex, fibrous) , proteins(lean or not), and fats ( saturated, unsaturated- poly and mono, trans). And at the right times. Of course, I did not recommend him to go more than 500 calories under his maintenance (depends on LBathmate, fat% and sport level activity + age gender ,weight and height). I said nothing wrong. All I said was that there is calorie balance law and if one wants to lose weight, he must obey this rule. Would you argue that one can't lose weight if he eats more than his maintenance level? Because that's all I said, I don't see what part of the calorie balance law is inaccurate. Please explain to me what was actually wrong from what I said? We are currently talking about weight- not muscle mass or fat. I can be wrong, though. Please explain.

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Throw calorie balance law in the trash. It's garbage. It is what gets people short term results 90% of the time. Calorie counting is wasted time. A person could be using that time to learn more about good sources of food. Get carbs from only whole foods. Get only healthy sources of fat. And if you eat meat make sure it is fed grass and raised on a pasture roaming around freely.

All of my clients take in more calories then they "burn" during exercise and coupled with their BathmateR. They lose weight and get stronger while feeling great. They have energy for their workouts and the rest of their. Their thoughts are clearer, they sleep better, their lives are drastically improved. And the results last. All of their sources of food are whole foods from the earth. Nothing processed in any form. They even eat potato chips but they make them at home in their own oven. All meats they eat are grass fed and never live in a cage or factory (the fats in animals like this are unbelievably healthy, even the saturated fats because their are way more vitamins in minerals as well that are not in factory meat).

Leptin bores me. Talk about that to a client and they wont have a clue what you are talking about. Leptin levels never drop when you leave calorie counting back in the 80s and 90s and EAT EAT EAT extremely healthy of course. But you have to find healthy foods that taste really good to make them forget about that sugary crap our brains become chemically addicted to. DAMN YOU BRAIN!!!! why must you make it so hard to eat healthy!!! Oh ya, it's because processed foods and factory meat are chemically created in labs to addict us to them, just like cigarettes. Interesting fact, back in the 70s and 80s when people started to learn how addictive cigarettes were and tobacco sales went down, many large tobacco companies and cigaretter companies but food supply companies!!!! Damn you cigarrette bastards!!!!

jordey;543867 said:

i dont think you understand what he said.. if you have a large surplus with little attention to diet, at the end of the day unless you do loads of physical activity, you will likely be in a calorie surplus, and therefore not lose weight. so if your maintenance is 3000, and you burn 2000 doing intense exercise, but are consuming 6000, youre still at a surplus of 1000, hence wont lose weight/ will gain. this is what i got from it anyway, Zambrodom3 please correct me if i got the wrong idea from your post

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I completely understood what he said. That's why i said to leave the calorie balance law back in the 80s and 90s. It's not my intention to come off as disrespectful or an asshole but the calorie balance law is GARBAGE. The fact that people who are health professionals and it is their job to help people lose weight and live healthier still tell people to burn more calories than they take in still baffles me!!! It's Jenny Craig science and weight watcher science. Although weight watchers has made improvements in the last few years. IT is wrong and harmful to tell people that they can not lose weight unless they follow the calorie balance law. Its the calorie balance scam! Start reading up! I recommend starting with the detriment processed foods and factory meats really have on our bodies (dont leave out a single body system). Then read into the benefits of whole foods and non factory meats on each system of the body. Then read the countless studies & research on weight loss and control with diets that are not focused on calorie deficits (again these are garbage, and wrong - well you can lose weight this way just not healthily. Leptin levels dropping are the least of the problems for these people).

this is from my previous post in response to Zambro:

All of my clients take in more calories then they "burn" during exercise and coupled with their BathmateR. They lose weight and get stronger while feeling great. They have energy for their workouts and the rest of their. Their thoughts are clearer, they sleep better, their lives are drastically improved. And the results last. All of their sources of food are whole foods from the earth. Nothing processed in any form. They even eat potato chips but they make them at home in their own oven. All meats they eat are grass fed and never live in a cage or factory (the fats in animals like this are unbelievably healthy, even the saturated fats because their are way more vitamins in minerals as well that are not in factory meat).

That's just my own experience but with the internet at our fingertips and giant databases of research studies you can find all the scientific back up you could ever dream up. There is also plenty stating the many problem with calorie deficit diets.

I truly hope no one on the forum is ever told incorrect information like the calorie balance law again. It's just not that simple, sorry to say.

Youknowme, I completely agree with you, except for the calorie balance law being trash and maybe 1 or 2 other stuff. I find myself incompetent "arguing" ( I am not trying to argue, that's why I put the " ") with a professional. This is what you do, this is your business. I am still a fan and a reader. We have similar interests in business and work- health care and proper nutrition. I have read books on the topic and share what I learned and found to be true. I have lots of years( lots of years) till I get competent enough to build my own business. I have a lot to learn, we are here because we want to help other people. But I just find it illogical if ones BathmateR( based on his age, gender, sex, height, sport activity and LBathmate to fat ratio) has additional calorie surplus to lose weight. The BathmateR includes the level of maintenance of your current weight and the maintenance of every cell in your body. If you go below that- your body will not maintain itself as it is( we are talking about a fat guy) and will be forced to destroy some cells that cannot be maintained. If you maintain every cell, whether it be fat or not, by giving it the nutrition in order to continue living and add up calories to that, I just find it illogical not to gain weight instead of burning. Do not forget that activity level is also taken into account and every inhale, every exhale and every workout are taken into consideration also- every aerobic or anaerobic movement. The more activity you have, the bigger the BathmateR will be. Again, I am not trying to argue, you are a professional, but it just seems illogical to me. Since I am a learner, I would like to know where I am mistaking, so I know in future.

WOW, the action in this thread!

doublelongdaddy;543948 said:

WOW, the action in this thread!

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Zambrodom3;543946 said:

Youknowme, I completely agree with you, except for the calorie balance law being trash and maybe 1 or 2 other stuff. I find myself incompetent "arguing" ( I am not trying to argue, that's why I put the " ") with a professional. This is what you do, this is your business. I am still a fan and a reader. We have similar interests in business and work- health care and proper nutrition. I have read books on the topic and share what I learned and found to be true. I have lots of years( lots of years) till I get competent enough to build my own business. I have a lot to learn, we are here because we want to help other people. But I just find it illogical if ones BathmateR( based on his age, gender, sex, height, sport activity and LBathmate to fat ratio) has additional calorie surplus to lose weight. The BathmateR includes the level of maintenance of your current weight and the maintenance of every cell in your body. If you go below that- your body will not maintain itself as it is( we are talking about a fat guy) and will be forced to destroy some cells that cannot be maintained. If you maintain every cell, whether it be fat or not, by giving it the nutrition in order to continue living and add up calories to that, I just find it illogical not to gain weight instead of burning. Do not forget that activity level is also taken into account and every inhale, every exhale and every workout are taken into consideration also- every aerobic or anaerobic movement. The more activity you have, the bigger the BathmateR will be. Again, I am not trying to argue, you are a professional, but it just seems illogical to me. Since I am a learner, I would like to know where I am mistaking, so I know in future.

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Just read, read , read and read some more. And then put it to practice. Calorie balance law is pseudoscience. it's old very simple science. It's just addition and subtraction (which are not needed in diet). Yes it can work. every big time fad diet is based on it whether its focus is on fat restriction or carb restriction. They all make someone a lot of money for a short period of time and then people realize "hey, I dont feel great, my energy sucks, i want to eat that fried chicken and piece of cake." They crave that fried piece of chicken and cake because they have developed neural pathways of reward linked to fatty sugary foods and their body craves that reward. and they cant keep the wait off. The biggest one we have all heard of is the Atkins diet. it was insane carb restriction and if you did it exactly right calorie restriction. people lost weight quick while feeling like shit and then gained even more weight back in 9 out of 10 cases. Calorie surplus is a great thing as long as those calories come from what is considered to be extremely healthy sources. I consider them the only source. I mentioned these in my last couple of posts. That surplus will never become fat. All calories, nutrients and minerals are only used as energy and allow our body to perform and function better at all levels.

When you eat as I describe and exercise properly (dont even have to workout hardcore, light exercise will do. and if you dont exercise youll just be skinny fat but not fat fat) those cravings for shit food wont be as strong and eventully disappear. they are giving their brain all that good nutrition encompasses so so it treats them well back.

we are all learners and hopefully always will be. There are a lot of lazy fucks in this world though, haha. screw those losers I say. time to READ!!!

leave calorie counting out of your life and everyone life you come into contact with. GIVE THE WORLD NUTRITION. GIVE THEM ENERGY. GIVE THEM DISEASE PREVENTION. GIVE THEM EDUCATION. With this will come all the results anyone wants when it come to weight loss. Now muscle building is a different story. With muscle building just make sure with all that protein they are taking in that they are also taking in crazy amount of colorful vegetables. You dont even have to tell your clients what exactly makes those colorful vegetables so goddamn healthy (unfortunately most dont care) just STRESS the importance of them. Muscle grows so much faster and stronger when their bodies not only have adequate protein to do so but also vitamins and minerals. AND THEY FEEL GREAT.

Good stuff you wrote there. Some fad diets sure can mess you up. About the healthy food sources- too- the body needs enzymes! Even though calorie balance is one thing we do not have the same opinion for, I find your stuff really good. It's like I am reading a renegade diet- health and energy are first of importance. Do you support intermittment fasting btw.

Zambrodom3;544051 said:

Good stuff you wrote there. Some fad diets sure can mess you up. About the healthy food sources- too- the body needs enzymes! Even though calorie balance is one thing we do not have the same opinion for, I find your stuff really good. It's like I am reading a renegade diet- health and energy are first of importance. Do you support intermittment fasting btw.

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Intermittent fasting is interesting. it has its place in some peoples lives. can be a very beneficial part of a healthy persons lifestyle. I like it because it prevents your body from getting used to something. To often people go on diets and keep there intake the same each day. Same amount of calories, same amount of protein, carbs and fats. This causes the body to down regulate in various ways (messes with our endocrine system especially). As much as fasting can benefit us, so can an increase in intake of calories, proteins, carbs, and fats. I've never had any of my clients fast but am considering it someday. I do play around with intake levels of calories, proteins, carbs, and fats. One day every 2 weeks clients will take in an abundance of calories. Other days all meals and snack get cut in half. As for carbs, fats, and protein adjustments those can vary by where we are in our program and how they are feeling.

Ya people love the word enzyme. If you add the word enzyme into your health book or article people will like it more because they think they are being healthier. Damn marketing people love words like that.

I like to think of the way i have people eat as mainstream and people just havent caught up yet. The problem with food suggestions is it doesnt make companies big money, it just gets people healthy and they learn how to eat. And once you only eat the best it is actually cheaper and you dont have to waste money on things like slimfast drinks and protein shakes. You dont have to go buy the next big health book or read about a new diet in every health magazine ever week. I believe calorie balance law, which is at the heart of every fad diet, is the renegade diet ruining lives.

Call it as you wish- vitamins if you want. Well carb cycling or calorie cycling can prevent what you are talking about. I agree and disagree with you, we both have our opinions. Hope you help your clients.

youknowme123321;543625 said:

you are living in the 1980's and 90's. That only works mathematically. People don't actually realize how few calories are burned during exercise of varying intensity. My clients always take in more calories than they "burn." This keeps them energized and moving strong during exercise and their regular day. Exercise plus an abundance of calories from great sources keeps the body running strong, building muscle, and burning unhealthy/unneeded fat. Now wasting away which is what happens when people calories constrict.

It is true , a person can lose weight when they actually take in less calories then they burn. An average persons BathmateR is 1400-1800 (some sources say different). BathmateR differes from person to person depending on multiple factors. So this means that a person whose BathmateR is 1800 needs to take in 1800 calories a day just to meet basic metabolic function of everyday activity. 99% of trainers and people dont take BathmateR into account. So if a person calorie restricts to 1000 calories per day and actually burns 1500 calories in that same day they are not at a negative 500 calories for the day. They are at a negative 2300 calories. This much of a negative is very bad.

They should lose weight and plenty do. And they are unhappy. They feel like crap. Theyre sluggish, irritable, unable to concentrate. They crave junk food that they have always eaten. This is because their body has gone into starvation mode. A very bad place to be. This is why even when people lose weight they gain it back so quickly and gain back even more weight because they put their body into shock at a cellular and metabolic level and it needs more of a reserve for when this happens again.

Zambrodom3 - welcome to the world of diet and nutrition in 2013. We have the entire world at our fingertips. Start reading before imparting OLD and incorrect information on people.

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i disagree with pretty much everything youve said regarding calories and alot of what youve said regarding nutrition. it makes no sense. if you are consuming more than you burn, where are those excess calories going? they dont just fly away because theyre not needed. they're stored, whether that be as muscle or fat. i have not seen one piece of information or any legitimate studies to show this is not the case. i may be wrong, you may have some studies i haven't seen. if so, please post them as currently your nutritional knowledge makes no sense to me (aswell as a few other members). simply eating healthy does not mean you will lose weight. if i ate 5000 calories of 'healthy' food, i would gain weight, and alot of this will be fat

jordey;544194 said:

i disagree with pretty much everything youve said

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That is usually what I hear from most people

Zambrodom3;544174 said:

Call it as you wish- vitamins if you want. Well carb cycling or calorie cycling can prevent what you are talking about. I agree and disagree with you, we both have our opinions. Hope you help your clients.

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Call what as I wish? call enzymes vitamins? I wouldn't do that...vitamins aren't enzymes. Enzymes are complex proteins needed for many body functions. Vitamins are co-enzymes though because many enzymes require a non-protein co-factor.

doublelongdaddy;544212 said:

That is usually what I hear from most people

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lol, that's funny!

Same here as jordey, please post.

jordey;544194 said:

i disagree with pretty much everything youve said regarding calories and alot of what youve said regarding nutrition. it makes no sense. if you are consuming more than you burn, where are those excess calories going? they dont just fly away because theyre not needed. they're stored, whether that be as muscle or fat. i have not seen one piece of information or any legitimate studies to show this is not the case. i may be wrong, you may have some studies i haven't seen. if so, please post them as currently your nutritional knowledge makes no sense to me (aswell as a few other members). simply eating healthy does not mean you will lose weight. if i ate 5000 calories of 'healthy' food, i would gain weight, and alot of this will be fat

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I'm the DLD of this nutrition thread...few believe what i say, but those who do will reap great benefit as well as those close to them.

TRUE NUTRITION FIRST. Calorie deficit diets are an old overly simple method. it is just addition and subtraction. Our bodies aren't elementary school education they are Chaos Mathematics so difficult it is unlikely we will fully understand them before our species goes extinct. Luckily because of DLD, future species will see us DLD followers to be large cocked kings!!! To put it simply, causing our bodies to function highly in the negative is BAD. To function at a high level physiologically and improve longevity by preventing disease and illness we must stay away from the negative and think of only an abundance of nutrition.

If you eat all healthy foods but still function in the negative it won't work for long. This is why those diets dont last. People do it and YES they lose weight. They enjoy these benefits but many negative responses are occurring in the body. The responses STRESS our bodies and minds. While they are losing weight they have strong cravings for unhealthy foods, many of which are the reason they are overweight. Their bodies actually break down muscle into glucose to maintain blood glucose levels reducing their lean muscle mass!!!!!!!! Your calorie negative diet plan causes quick weight loss which is mostly water and lean muscle mass especially if its a calorie and carb restrictive diet. 1 carb binds with 4 grams of water in muscle tissue so if you reduce carbs water leaves muscles because it has no carb to bind to. This effect disappears in 10-14 days once your body won't let more water be released from muscle tissue. This is why popular diets say lose 7-12 lbs in 2 weeks or why personal trainers say it as well to get clients to train with them. After this not only does fat disappear slowly but muscle does as well. Some people last longer than other but eventually 9/10 put the weight back on because their bodies were so stressed they craved. YOU ARE LITERALLY MAKING A BODY GO INTO STARVATION MODE!!!!!

Calorie negative diets only focus on reducing numbers on a scale. People either pretend calorie negative diets are nutritious or they're stupid and actually think it's a nutritious diet because if your losing weight you must be healthy. People need true nutrition and a good exercise program individualized to them that balances stress and rest. When you do that calorie numbers mean nothing. Just read about "negative effects of calorie restrictive diets." Look at it from all angles. Cover each body system. Cover as many pathophysiologies as you can. I don't know how old you are but pre-med to DO to ND is the probably best route with a focus in Preventive Medicine.


Go eat 5000 calories a day of non processed foods and non factory meat products every day and exercise (some days vary calories). Only eat whole foods and pasture raised beef and chicken. Best if you can meet the animals before and say hi. Farms that dont hide anything are the best. you wont gain an ounce of fat. youll lose it unless you have none to really lose because you are already shredded up. you may already feel great every day and be super focused and dedicated and on top of everything in your life but all of that will magnify when your body is no long functioning in a negative (if you don't function in a negative calorie balance do it with a client). TRUE NUTRITION FIRST. It's an old overly simple method. it is just addition and subtraction

Let me find the studies i have filed away sometime. No longer have as great of access to research databases since I've been out of school but know i have some in boxes.

Seriously though, give it a try. I know if i did it your way I'd lose weight (i'd also feel the effects of lack of sufficient calories and nutrients). Also, try it with clients. Male clients are the best when testing something out. Just remember, only whole foods and non factory meats.

My daily diet is:

2 lb of raw greens - spinach, kale, swiss chard, mustard greens, bok choy, arugula... basically whatever I have that day
8 oz. fresh tomatoes
2 oz. tomato paste
1 lb carrots
4 avg size pickling cucumbers
8 oz sweet potato
6 eggs
12 oz chicken...i blend 6 oz up in water and drink it down in a few seconds
10 oz whatever kind of steak I have that day *** i buy all my meat in bulk from a small farm. So much frozen chicken meat and practically a whole cow
homemade pizza every day from scratch...at this point i can make it and have it cooked in 20 mins flat but make 3 pizzas and just cook each at eating time
2 almond butter sandwiches on homemade bread in the middle of the night
*onions, garlic, basil, parsley, tumeric like crazy

I am 5'9'' 175lbs. 8-11% BF. No where near as active as I once was because of new business. I spend more time charting & getting the books straight than exercising (I hang and Penis Enlargement while doing this). This forum is proving to be a nice distraction. I don't gain any weight (muscle or fat) and maintain my muscle mass with 20-30 minutes of exercise daily.

small variations from this with all types of vegetables. And salmon a few times a week. I take nootropic supplements, pressed aloe juice, and about 1000 calories worth of chia seeds a day. Also cannabis orally. Much of my diet is blended to save time and to not tax my GI tract like the american diet does(crohns dz, IBS, cholecystectomies, GERD, colon CA, gastric CA, pancreatic CA, liver CA, esophageal/tracheal throat CA (strong non diet associations with throat CA's such as cigarrettes and HPV(HPV being a newer cause in recent years)). Some people say my life is boring but i cant get enough of it.

Also into alpha brain wave control to reduce sleep needed and reduce stress inflammatory responses in the body.

JORDEY & ZAMBRODUM3 - please just open your minds. Calorie negative diets...you know what they are. They have been around since exercise and dieting got big in the 19980's. They are behind every single pop culture fad diet out there. We know they get people to lose weight. we know it is easier to gain back weight during and after these diets because our bodies were in starvation mode because of the negative calorie balance. hopefully you know the huge negative effects of them when maintained over long periods of time. go out there and learn even more. i'll be right there with you reading.

I'm sure we probably agree more on muscle building because that is much easier than weight loss, even for those who see themselves as hard gainers.