Going vegan?

Since we weren't made to eat meat and we only do it for the taste, I encourage you to go a week eating only veggies and see how much energy you have. Also I believe the set of teeth in my mouth the K-9 looking ones are for shredding meat not fruits and vegetables.

Give me a full set of dull teeth like a cow and then you can say that we are made for vegetables and fruit.

Well, I'm 100% vegetarian. I don't eat meat, fish, or eggs. I've tried it longer than a week, closer to two years. Back when I ate meat I was rather lethargic. Now I have much much more energy (and more testosterone). And actually a week isn't enough time to grade progress, you can notice some effects by a week, but to really notice the healing effects of not eating meat (and eating a balanced vegetarian diet) you should do it for over a month. By the first month you'll start feeling more pure, because your body has been given some time to detox from the meat. Yeah, detox... because corpses are like poison. Our "K-9" teeth do not even closely resemble those of meat eaters. Our teeth are actually closer to the molars of cows and other vegetarian animals. The sharp parts are for cutting veggies, if they were made to cut meat they'd be round, longer, sharper, and our jaw would only open and close like a hinge, no moving side to side, and we wouldn't have to chew.

Well, it looks like your point of view is set in stone and I can't sway it with anything I say. I've made my points (all backed by science) and you aren't agreeing with them. Fair enough.

Yes, I've studies this subject thouroughly enough to know now. What I've said is all scientific. "Science" can never prove that the human body is meant to have meat or that it's healthier with it because it simply is not. Meat is a burden to our health, but we eat it anyway because we like it's taste. One thing I know for a fact, is that I've personally been able to reap the benefits. I'm now less sluggish, less lethargic, my viens feel lighter because there isn't so much cholesterol in them, higher test levels, more energetic, an easy way to stay at my optimum body weight and composition... among other mental, spiritual, and karmic benefits. I feel much more clean all around, physically, mentally, karmicly, and spiritually. I'm definately more peaceful and happy.

When you eat it you don't really know what it's like on the other side because you're conditioned to it, the best way to find out is to go on a balanced vegetarian diet and find out first hand, for a few months. It's like how if you take a little arsenic each day, eventually you build a tolerance to it but also your system is negatively affected, but you don't notice much because that's just how you are and it's become all you know.

Anyway.. it was nice talking with you and I'm glad you remained nice and level-headed, that is very respectable.

This goes in the Diet section.

Thought this might be interesting for the debate:

http://www.eatright.org/Public/GovernmentAffairs/92_17084.cfm

That's a paper published by the American Dietetic Association saying that vegetarian and vegan diets "are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases...This position paper reviews the current scientific data related to key nutrients for vegetarians, including protein, iron, zinc, calcium, vitamin D, riboflavin, vitamin B-12, vitamin A, n-3 fatty acids, and iodine. A vegetarian, including vegan, diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients."

I'm not vegetarian or vegan, I just thought this would maybe be helpful.

A lot of my friends are Vegan and they're in madd good shape... Hydromaxm...

Jason1 said:

I am thinking about going vegan but it is hard to make the decision. I mean we are carnivores and I think that is why Japanese people are so short, because of lack of meat. Or maybe it is a protein thing. I could take soy protein but how good is that? I am a huge animal lover. I think that back in the day that it was alright to eat meat because everyone went out and hunted and it was more natural, I mean we are the top of the food chain. But I hear stuff from certain groups about all the tortorous things that go on at slaughter houses, farms etc. But on the other hand there might be a certain level of exagerration and propoganda in those claims. I am at a total loss and don't know what to do. I believe in the circle of life. Anyone who has annything to say on the whole subject, even philosophy wise, please don't hesitate.

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I have heard that Soy Milk is bad for you... but I used to drink it when I was a baby because I couldn't drink real milk at all... but it is good haha i like it, i hear it's good and bad for you at the same time, but if you wanna go Vegan, go for it

If youre doing it merely for "health" reasons, I dont know that it would really make that big of a difference in the long run. You cant really escape the hormones, or other countless chemicals in the foods we consume these days. You can eat 100% organic beef...in other words the cows the beef came from were supposedly never given any growth hormones, therefor the meat is supposedly healthier...and the milk is too...(growth hormones in the milk we urge out kids to drink is why our daughters hit puberty much younger these days by the way)...BUT, there are still pesticides in whatever the cow ate. So, sure you can maybe avoid the hormones, but not the pesticides. LOL. Then you have the fact that farmers spray their food crops so they grow bigger crops by warding off pests with pesticides. The plants absorb those pesticides. No amount of washing/cleaning will remove them. Sure why not be a vegan? The pesticides will probably give ya cancer too one day. I just assume eat as healthy as I can.....simple carbohydrates are the source of most obesity, and obesity related issues these days...and enjoy life, rather than totally commit to what can be a very difficult way to eat.

Stuff I think you are missing the point. I love animals, but I don't mind if they die to sustain the circle of life. Such is nature and we are a part of nature. I wouldn't be pissed of at a lion if I went wandering the plains of Africa and gotten a limb eaten. I would be pissed at my situation, but in no way would I think that lion is an "evil" lion. Herbivores in the animal kingdom don't find meat morally wrong and eat vegan as a result. They are just that way. I was thinking about going vegan because I have heard that the quality of life of these animals are bad, for all of them. Egg hens, milk cows, beef cows, etc. If they have a good life and they are killed to become food then that is fine. I am just not sure that I what "groups" I can trust.

That's why I dont let my "conscience" or emotions determine what sustains my body. I love animals too. Cats and dogs in particular, but I find all animals beautiful. I know that most animals that are kept as livestock and used for the food industry are kept in often dispicable conditions that would make most animal lovers furious, but I accept that this class of animals is just that. FOOD.

Jason, I never said there was anything wrong with a lion eating your limb, that's what they do, they're carnivores. There is no "evil" lion, that's an indifferent situation really, well... except for the loss of your limb. Humans, however are not, but can choose to eat meat because they like to kill. Otherwise there is no real reason to eat meat. Compassion, morality, spirituality, equality, and such are all great reasons to be vegetarian, and those words really gain their meaning when put to practice in such ways. I also see the angle you're taking it at, and that is also a good one. These living beings, that are just as alive as you and I, are tortured mercilessly until the day they get their throat slit and their muscles ripped out of their still flailing bodies, while they can still feel it.

Did you know that when you feel pain, fear, or anger your body releases chemicals and hormones? Well, those animals are full of those harmful enzymes because of the way they were treated all their lives, and also because of how violently and painfully they are slaughtered. Our body takes in those hormones and all those pain and fear hormones are now in our bodies, subtly affecting us beyond our scope of perception.

As for soy milk, I don't drink it. I hear it has it's health values, but nothing can replace good old cow's milk. I want to own my own cow someday. :cool: But yeah, being vegetarian is not only beneficial to you, but also to nature and the animals you didn't eat. It's not that "well, they're already killing them so might as well join in", no, the fewer people eat them the less they kill. Every person counts, every person makes a difference, by their own personal actions, though you may not see the result of it in nature you surely will in your physical, mental, and spiritual health. And it's also not that "it's already dead", no, it was killed just for you. Every bite is the very same as the action of killing the animal personally (karmicly, at the least).

I'm so glad you all are so understanding and kind in this debate here, that's very nice and I appreciate it.

[P.S. - Warning: Graphic, Very Disturbing Content! Here is a link to a video of just some of the unspeakable horrors that go on in factory farms and slaughter houses. It is very difficult to get film of these places because they don't want it to be known, but here it is: Meet Your Meat

And for those of you that are thinking "those fear and pain chemicals aren't in kosher corpse products," there is this: Kosher Farms?

Edit: The video links are on the right side of both pages.

NOTICE!: I have warned you, this stuff is disturbing. If you get queezy easily, don't watch! And don't blame me for anything if it disturbs you. Blame the people who did it. I could only watch half of the first one about a year ago, the second one is new and I haven't watched it. I stopped halfway on the first one because that is where they started to show cows. The second one starts out with cows. That is the worst... killing a cow is the same as killing a human. These animals on our plates... they're not just "food", they're not some inanimate matter, they are living, breathing, feeling, conscious living beings just like you and me.

Why do drink milk Stuff? Did you even watch that first movie. You can't even talk now.

I drink milk because it is healthy, and cows give more milk than their calf needs, and if you keep your own cow and keep it happy it can give milk up to around 12 years or so (in most farms they give milk only 3 years or so). We can survive off dairy alone. I didn't watch it once they showed cows because I cannot stand to see cows treated badly. I love cows, so it was too much to watch. I try to get organic milk as well, but the best is to get it from a local farmer, they usually do not mistreat their cows. I know that factories mistreat their cows and it saddens me, but because I drink milk doesn't mean I can't talk, I just need to buy organic or from local farmers. I'd prefer to have my own cow so I can take care of her nicely. You don't have to drink milk, meat is the big issue. That's the only difference between vegetarian and vegan, me and vegans, is that we drink milk and they don't. Everything else is the same, we can't even have most cheeses made in america because they use animal rennet.

Edit: Milk is like love, it is very nurturing. It promotes good bodily and mental health. Whoever gives you milk is your mother, first your mother who gave birth to you gave you milk, and then as you grew older the second mother, the cow gave you milk. To kill or eat the cow is the same as doing so to the mother who gave birth to you, and she (the cow) should be treated like your own mother, with the same love and respect. The cow gives us her milk out of her own kindness, so we should respect her and treat her nicely (although in some farms they mistreat the cow, which is very sad ).

YOU FUCKING HYPOCRYTE. Please don't hijack this thread anymore you propogandist. You give this we love murder shit and say that you you drink milk out of love? People eat meat because it tastes good and it is good for you. In the video you posted it says that drinking milk directly supports the VEAL industry. Because they say that cows are constantly impregnated to keep milk production high and there calfs are sent off to be veal. So you love the taste of baby murder? WOW! Can someone please tell me if these Penis EnlargementTA websites and stuff like that are propoganda? Please. Are most farms the way they say or are they humane with the animals quality of life. If I eat a steak, where does it come from? Did the cow have a short, miserable life full of pain or what. I don't believe that killing for food is wrong. I am opposed to the lifestyle that the animals live. However I don't know if it is true. Some people think that killing for food is wrong and will lie to you to say to get you to go their way no matter what. I want to know both sides of the story and seperate the lies from the truth. Then I will make my decision.

I just came across this post and have read all the posts. Jason, going vegan is a big decison and needs to be made very carefully. The reason must be more than a dislike for killing animals. Maybe you don't like meat and want to do something different, I don't know. I recently became a vegan. That was a big decison for me. I did it for health reasons. My body was a mess. My blood was a mess. A total vegitarian diet is very healthly and those who are vegitarians can be healthy and very active. There is enough protien available in plant products to allow you a very active life. The facts are that many of the top athletes are vegans. It was a tough thing at first to know what to eat and how to prepare food. Now I enjoy eating and feel more energy and am very happy with my choice. It is hard to eat out at restaurants and in people's homes but folk have been very understanding wth me. I don't make a big issue and plan for my diet accordingly. Many good points have been made in this forum on both sides. I know that more and more information is being published regarding how to control diabetes with a vegitarian diet. More and more information is being given with regard to soy and it's use. The trouble is that there is one bulletin saying pro and one saying no. So, until there is more information you can have proof for one side and the same for the other. I choose not to use milk or eggs because of the feeding program of most producers. We are killing ourselves with hormones. No one will disagree that the stuff they feed beef, hogs, chickens etc. to get them to grow fast are certainly affecting our children let alone the regular population. Thanks for listening. GS

GS I like talking to you and you are always very helpful. Thank you very much. I will keep in touch about my choice.

I am sorry that I offended you. I suppose it is best to stop posting in this thread as I am no longer welcome. Thanks to those who were kind to me, I appreciate that. I never said I drink milk out of love, I said giving milk is an act of love, like a mother giving her child milk. That gives the child the love and nutrients they need that formula won't give them. Of course it's wrong the way factory farms get milk and that is different and wrong. You can call me a hypocrite and think that it is propaganda, that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion even though you haven't studied it enough or been presented enough in-depth information on it, as I am entitled to my own opinion. People who eat meat do not do so because it is good for you, because it is not good for you. They eat it because they like the taste. That is fine. I don't eat it because I don't like the taste, it was adversly affecting my health, and moral issues. That is just me, other people will and do have different opinions. Thanks for the kindness and welcome, though, and if anyone would like some personal help, nutritional or otherwise, you are welcome to PM me. If you are not wanting my advice there is no need to flame me but if you want to that also is fine, we all are entitled to our own opinions.

Jason1 said:

YOU FUCKING HYPOCRYTE. Please don't hijack this thread anymore you propogandist. You give this we love murder shit and say that you you drink milk out of love? People eat meat because it tastes good and it is good for you. In the video you posted it says that drinking milk directly supports the VEAL industry. Because they say that cows are constantly impregnated to keep milk production high and there calfs are sent off to be veal. So you love the taste of baby murder? WOW! Can someone please tell me if these Penis EnlargementTA websites and stuff like that are propoganda? Please. Are most farms the way they say or are they humane with the animals quality of life. If I eat a steak, where does it come from? Did the cow have a short, miserable life full of pain or what. I don't believe that killing for food is wrong. I am opposed to the lifestyle that the animals live. However I don't know if it is true. Some people think that killing for food is wrong and will lie to you to say to get you to go their way no matter what. I want to know both sides of the story and seperate the lies from the truth. Then I will make my decision.

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Oh, well, another good debate ruined by name calling.

Yeah, no flaming, Jason1. Please disagree peacefully.

I thought Stuff_ contributed some really good info to the thread. Just because he posted the video does not mean that he agrees with everything in it. The material that Penis EnlargementTA puts out generally advocates a total vegan diet, a diet which Stuff_ never claimed to follow. He's a vegetarian, as he said (not vegan), and vegetarians can also drink milk, and some have no problem whatsoever with eating dairy products and eggs.