Low Carb Atkins Diet

C-Guy · Apr 10, 2004

Well I apologize if I came off that way. But, as usual there are two side to most stories and both should be stated. Lots of people are fat for other reasons than being lazy. I agree that the majority of americans are fat and lazy although some are fat for other reasons.

My mom had hypertension and sugar diabeties. She was over weight because when she ate within 30 minutes she would fall asleep and be out for a couple of hours.The diabeties was always worse when she ate carbs...rice or potatoes were worse than sugar for her. She would walk and exercise as much as she could. Mom died last month from pancreatic cancer. She lost over a hundred pounds mostly from December until March 5. There was nothing left but skin draped over bones at the end. She fought to be healthy and still lost the battle.

Enough doom and gloom. There was a man in the town next to where I live that died a couple of years ago. He was in his 20's. He was sooo hughe that when he died they had to take a chainsaw and cut the wall off of his bedroom to take his body out of the house. He was over 700 pounds. He was a nice guy but could or would not try to control his eating habits and vertainly did not try to exercise.

One other thing before I stop babbling like a brook. When I am on the low carb I do NOT follow it to the tee. I eat huge amounts of veggies and some LEAN meat , but try to avoid most of the fat. I have to avoid sugar and bread.

jGman · Apr 10, 2004

C-Guy, sorry to hear about your mom. It sounds like she was a fantastic woman. She may have lost the battle, but she gave death a good ass-whooping.

BeBobBox · Apr 10, 2004

Yea, sorry to hear about your mom. Im going to start shopping for foods and getting recipes ready so that by monday I can start eating very little carbs. Hopefully I can lose some weight

philadelph · Apr 10, 2004

I don't see what could be healthier than eating lean meats, veggies, good fats, and low G.I. carbs. What you have here is essentially the Atkins.
I hate when people assume I am on the Atkins diet though.

I agree that when you tell fat people they can have all the cheese and bacon they want, things will get out of hand and it could become unhealthy.

There is nothing wrong about eating foods that keep your blood sugar levels stable. I feel much better and have more energy when I do this.

But we all should just stop arguing about this because everyone is different and there is not a diet that will make everyone feel good and lose weight.

ctmwm · Apr 10, 2004

C-guy,I'm sorry for your loss.

Well When I did the low carb thing I went the healthy way. I didnt do all the fats and the meats it just dosent seem healthy. I did all fish chicken turkey & salads and no caffiene. PLENTY of water and some Crystal light once in a while. I do think the key is to work out. Even if you just walk / jog for 30 min a day.

I took the best things on the diet and stayed with them. Shit you can loose weight on any diet as long as you do it healthily!! And workout!!

C-Guy · Apr 10, 2004

Thanks guys. Mom was a remarkable woman. If she instilled anything in me at all, it was to NEVER give up when you want something. I am working on some things as we speak that are literally changing my life. I WILL NEVER be the same anymore. Thank God!

BeBobBox · Apr 10, 2004

good luck man

levista · Apr 10, 2004

Wow, lot of passion on this thread. I just wanted to add some info that was found out about the Atkins in a UK study. A huge programme was embarked on by a TV show that ran all the diets against each other, eg Atkins vs Calorie Counting vs Weightwatchers vs etc etc

All said and done, the winner was the Atkins.

BUT...(and these are my recollections, i am no diet expert)

Some months after the show was finished (the show focused on the progress of a few minor celebrities) the 600 members of the public who were also doing it completed their cycle on the diets. After some study it became clear that basically the Atkins diet either creates a lot of protein (due to the fat?) or a lot of protein is taken in due to the type of food eaten. PROTEIN MAKES YOU FEEL FULL. So they looked at all the eating records and found the atkins folk were eating less than many of the other diets including restrictive ones like calorie counting.

They then looked into ketosis and proved it doesnt exist basically. You do get smelly breath etc but when they monitored the urine (cant remember why) it proved it wasnt happening. The reasoning in the Atkins books is wrong.

So basically, Atkins = more protein = feel full, eat less

The protein thing is well known especially in weightlifter circles.

Anyway it was an interesting documentary and I wanted to offer this info. I have never used Atkins etc so cant comment personally on it.

philadelph · Apr 10, 2004

levista said:
Wow, lot of passion on this thread. I just wanted to add some info that was found out about the Atkins in a UK study. A huge programme was embarked on by a TV show that ran all the diets against each other, eg Atkins vs Calorie Counting vs Weightwatchers vs etc etc

All said and done, the winner was the Atkins.

BUT...(and these are my recollections, i am no diet expert)

Some months after the show was finished (the show focused on the progress of a few minor celebrities) the 600 members of the public who were also doing it completed their cycle on the diets. After some study it became clear that basically the Atkins diet either creates a lot of protein (due to the fat?) or a lot of protein is taken in due to the type of food eaten. PROTEIN MAKES YOU FEEL FULL. So they looked at all the eating records and found the atkins folk were eating less than many of the other diets including restrictive ones like calorie counting.

They then looked into ketosis and proved it doesnt exist basically. You do get smelly breath etc but when they monitored the urine (cant remember why) it proved it wasnt happening. The reasoning in the Atkins books is wrong.

So basically, Atkins = more protein = feel full, eat less

The protein thing is well known especially in weightlifter circles.

Anyway it was an interesting documentary and I wanted to offer this info. I have never used Atkins etc so cant comment personally on it.

That is interesting levista. For example, if I eat a grilled chicken breast which is ~130 calories, I am going to be more full than if I eat 130 calories worth of bread or rice.

Mercury · Apr 10, 2004

9cyclops9 said:
9cyclops9:It has only become popular recently. And I can guarantee you it will be thrown out fairly soon. It is a fad.

Just because something becomes popular doesn't suddenly make it a bad thing.
That's just people, it doesn't say anything about how good or bad a particular diet is.

Mercury:
"Why is it so bad?
What do you think people were eating before things like bread and sugar were discovered?
There was a time when most diets consisted of just meat, fruit, and the vegetables that were aroundavailable at the time.
In the 20th century we suddenly had mass production of all the processed carb foods that are a main factor to death in the western world".

9cyclops9: Are you telling me that bread and sugar are recent discoveries? I think not. Bread has been around for a REALLY long time, and so has sugar. Maybe not refined sugar like you find in the stores, but sugar none the less. However, you did hit the key point. PROCESSED FOODS. That's the problem, not carbohydrates. There's so much trash in processed food and so little nutritional value left, no wonder we are such an obese society!

I never told you that bread and sugar are recent dicoveries at all.

I'm saying our ancestors survived with limited carb intake.
I'm going way back, hundreds of years.
They had nothing like the mass marketed high carb foods of today.
Everywhere you go, they are in your face.
People survived without the vast array of sugary snack food that is around now, or the McDonalds, chocolate, pastrys, Coke, fizzy pop drinks etc.

Mercury:
So Atkins is a quick fix?....Good.

9cyclops9:That's the lazy attitude I'm talking about. That's what our whole society is built on. Quick fixes, the easy way out, not working. LAZINESS!!

That says nothing at all about having a lazy attitude.
You take my point out of context when you split my paragraph up. Directly after that sentence I said ...."People can then just get rid of the fat they want, THEN concentrate on tailoring a good diet that is tailored to what they want to do".

That's not lazy, that's just common sense.

9cyclops9:How many people actually do that? Maybe if the person is extremely obese, Atkins diet might be a way to remedy that quickly and at least get the person's weight down to a tolerable level, and then start on a good diet. But this diet is NOT GOOD for the average or slightly overweight person. And the majority of people that get to their "goal weight" end up trashing themselves all over again because they go back to eating terribly.

Well again, that's just people. It has nothing to do with the diet itself.
If people decide to pig out as soon as they reach their desired weight, that's their fault,..not the actual diet.
If people just want to lose weight for image reasons, then decide to trash themselves afterwards, that's entirely their own doing.
They would do that with any diet.
You can't blame a diet for what an individual decides to do afterwards.

9cyclops9:I know DLD lost about 20 lbs on Atins diet, but he said he felt terrible, and he felt like the weight he lost was valuable weight, not just extra fat. He's now eating healthily and exercising (very important!) and he's lost an additional 19 lbs from that and he feels great! THAT is why Atkins diet is no good for you. You can eat healthily and feel a whole lot better, and still lose weight, and most importantly, you can actually be HEALTHY!!

Well obviously the Atkins diet isn't suited to DLD.
People are different.
After most diets people say they feel lousy, that isn't exclusive to Atkins diet.
Some people pig out after deprivation type diets.
There's many ways to eat and be healthy. What works for one person, doesn't necessarily work for another person.
Some people stop the Atkins diet, some people continue with it year round. Some people who stop, decide to educate themselves and watch their calories,eat healthily and exercise,..other people pig out.

Again, you can't blame Atkins (or any diet) just because of people's different attitudes, and the way they choose to live their life.
What about the many people who have had much success with Atkins diet?
For some people it's been great, others don't feel the same.
But has it put them in any danger by trying it?

What is unhealthy about the Atkins diet?
You keep saying it's unhealthy, but why is it unhealthy?
Surely it's just another option that people can either choose or ignore.

I agree totally with your points about people being ignorant of what they do to their bodies with what they consume, and ignoring a healthy lifestyle until they get so unhealthy that they are forced to do something, or drop dead.
But I don't see why you are so against Atkins.
You just say it's unhealthy without really saying why.

Just because one way is healthy doesn't mean every other approach is not.
Everything has to be looked at on it's own merit.
You can't compare Atkins to another "fad" diet if they are both different from each other.
If someone suffers serious harmful effects from some "fad" diet that advocates eating onions all day, you can't just say that Atkins diet must ALSO bad because it's also a popular diet craze.

levista · Apr 10, 2004

philadelph said:
That is interesting levista. For example, if I eat a grilled chicken breast which is ~130 calories, I am going to be more full than if I eat 130 calories worth of bread or rice.

Pretty much so. On a psychological level you would also feel like you had actually had a meal, and your appetite would be likely more quenched.

Bear in mind i dont recommend the Atkins in any way, i have no experience with it. I'm actually sitting here right now trying to build an eating programme for myself, and if i were to eat chicken I'd be looking to take all skin off it and take a small protein supplement during the day, but again, thats me and I'm looking to build muscle too. I dont feel I can say whats right for anyone else!

Mercury · Apr 10, 2004

I watched that documentary too levista.

I'm not sure how thorough an investigation it was, as it seemed to be asking some of the wrong questions.
My point is that all the questions it asked seemed to be from the perspective that the diet is all about WEIGHT LOSS.

It didn't seem to realise that the point of the Atkins diet isn't about weight loss in itself, it is about making the body burn body fat as it's primary fuel source.
It never even looked at this area, it was just focused on how Atkins works at making people lose WEIGHT.

It finished with the grand conclusion that Atkins works because protein suppresses appetite.
Well they may have felt they were really smart and clever, and that they revealed it as some sort of scam or something.....but they never really looked at Atkins from the standpoint that it is supposed to encourage FAT LOSS.

I mean that's the whole point about the Atkins diet isn't it?
That the body turns to body fat as it's primary fuel source?
They just didn't address that issue,..it seemed like they had their own agenda.

All diets which limit your calorie intake make you lose weight. There's no big discovery there.

By the way, I'm reading in this thread that Rice has a high glycemic index.
I never realised that. I eat plenty of it as well.
I don't eat pasta anymore as it bloats me up, as does bread (must be the wheat)
So is the only substitute left open to me just to eat potatoes as my main complex carbs?
I eat oatmeal for breakfast, but what can I replace my rice intake with?
Any suggestions?

Also, would I be right in thinking that caffeine creates an insulin spike?

philadelph · Apr 10, 2004

Caffeine does not create an insulin spike.

Mercury · Apr 11, 2004

Thanks Philadelph for the correction.

Been reading so much about food and hormones over the last week that I'm forgetting little things.

I got insulin spike mixed up with an adrenalin surge.
Caffeine releases adrenalin which is a fat burning hormone. (Or something along those lines)

Thanks,...my mistake.

Mercury · Apr 11, 2004

Wouldn't it be a good idea to be taking Glutamine while on an Atkins type diet?

Glutamine is a protein sparing amino acid, and is anti-catabolic.
So not only would you be encouraging fat loss, you would have Glutamine helping your body to resist breaking down muscle to use as an energy source.

Also it is supposed to stimulate a larger release of HGH which would also help burn fat.
If muscle is being prevented from being broken down as fuel, it may force the diet to burn even more fat than normal.

In theory, it looks like it could help in several ways.

Does anyone else think that Glutamine may be a good supplement to use alongside an Atkins/Keto diet?

C-Guy · Apr 11, 2004

Mercury I would suggest that you take Coral Calcium. It helps to stabalize the insulin levels, therefore helps to curb the carb cravings. People taking calcium are 10 times more likel;y to succeed on the diet.

When on any low carb diet if you want to measure how fast it is working just buy some keto sticks from any drug store. After about the second day on the diet your levels will begin to change. Dip the stick in urine. The darker the color becomes the more fat you are burning. People with a lot of fat have a huge fuel supply which seems to give them more energy.

Finally, when you lose the weight you want start adding a few carbs back into the diet (healthy ones). Keep adding a few each week until you begin to gain weight. That is probably the amount of carbs you will need to stay at to maintain the weight loss. Something most people don't realize is that when you count carbs you can subtract the amount of fibre therefore you are actually eating more. Try to pick veggies that contain a lot of fiber (which you need anyways), dried beans being an excellent source. The beans will also help to lower cholostrol.

A hint on the potatoes. When broken down in the body a baked potatoe is the equivelent of a half cup of sugar.

Bigd5903 · Apr 11, 2004

Mercury said:
Wouldn't it be a good idea to be taking Glutamine while on an Atkins type diet?

Glutamine is a protein sparing amino acid, and is anti-catabolic.
So not only would you be encouraging fat loss, you would have Glutamine helping your body to resist breaking down muscle to use as an energy source.

Also it is supposed to stimulate a larger release of HGH which would also help burn fat.
If muscle is being prevented from being broken down as fuel, it may force the diet to burn even more fat than normal.

In theory, it looks like it could help in several ways.

Does anyone else think that Glutamine may be a good supplement to use alongside an Atkins/Keto diet?

Glutamine is good for everything. 2/3 of the aminos in skeletal muscle is glutamine. It's also good for the immune system. I haven't even had a cold in almost a year

philadelph · Apr 11, 2004

Glutamine supplementation is totally bogus. I will post more on this at a latter date with a study. Basically free form l-glutamine is not bioavailable orally and you get as much as you need from your protein intake. Save your money.

Bigd5903 · Apr 11, 2004

It seems to help me so I'm going to continue using it.

randolf · Apr 11, 2004

I think one factor most people forget is losing weight isn't everything.

For example you could drop 50 pounds of muscle and skeletal mass, and gain 10 pounds of fat. You'd step on the scale and be like YES I lost 40 pounds, great diet.

For example some vegans are very light, but they also are pinner weaklings.

What you want is a healthy bodyfat percentage for a man. About 15% or so.

My dad for example is 185 pounds right now and 20-21% bodyfat. He was talking about dropping 20 pounds or something. I pointed out that just dropping weight doesn't mean you will have a lower bodyfat percentage.

Usualy when people drop weight fast from calorie restriction their bodyfat percentage goes up.

I right now am in the process of losing fat. I'm about 265, and maybe 20% bodyfat. At first it seems like it would be a long road but think about it like this. Idealy I'd be about 15% bodyfat. That is the best range for adult men. So right now I have about 53 pounds of bodyfat. I'd have to lose 1/4th of that. So about 13 pounds of bodyfat.

I'm also working out so I am gaining muscle. So say over the next 6 months I went down to 255 or so but gained muscle, that would be a very big difference.

Remember fat is 9 times more volumus then muscle per pound so it would be a large visual change. And also my strategy is gradual, its mainly trying not to eat as many super sugary things, like trying to put in more fruits and slow digesting breads. But still trying to be full, because if you're hungry its not really nice and your metabolism just lowers to compensate anyway.

Also I'm working on going for hike type walks and more cardio things.

Low Carb Atkins Diet

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