Heavy strength training and it's influence on the PC muscles

Satyr · Dec 5, 2014

ok, thanks for your contributions. though, this is somewhat a digression from the topic, I as an experienced lifter who has trained for over 10 years now concur with all the advocates of strength training here. And yes, injuries happen in any sport, regardless which one it is. going for your max isn't playing roulette if you know your limits (and thus know how to overcome them) and cultivated a proper technique. In the long run, though, heavy weights are taxing for the bone structure, but then again, certain signs of wear will show in any sport as well if it's practiced with competitive ambition.

@SWM: That you use your pelvic muscles as well is self-evident. How would you not? Do you really think there's just one muscle in your lower body that won't be recruited during squats and DLs? Surely not. Of course, you can stress your PC more extensively (but not necessarily more intensively!) by Kegeling deliberately but that you tax them during strength training is pretty obvious. Just try to flex glut and see what happens. The only reason why maybe nobody ever thought about this is that you (luckily!) don't think about your PC muscles while doing squats and stuff

@borninfigi: what I wanted to know is if there are other lifters who are under the impression that they miss out on the benefits of Kegels. Now, I figure that a lot of people will say yes without even thinking about it because it has become such a commonplace that one usually doesn't scrutinize it, but having a good EQ is a different thing than having a better EQ as a consequence of Kegels. I for my part couldn't affirm that. My EQ in general didn't improve because of Kegels nor did it worsen after I had abandoned them. Moreover, I had less problems in keeping an erection because my PC muscles weren't permanently toned (which was the case almost every time after I kegeled and althoug I certainly didn't overdo it). So this led me to think that I already had very strong PC muscles (to give another example connected to the original therapeutic purposes this exercise was invented :I can literally delay a piss for hours if I want to). And this insight led me to the conjecture that strength training might be the cause of it.

But for those who are irritated about the whole connection between lifting and PC muscle strength (though, it's pretty obvious once you think about it), I could simplify things by just asking if there are some of you who aren't so sure if Kegels served them the benefits which many men ascribe to them (first and foremost a better EQ) and who had similar problems (namely: an often involuntarily flexed PC muscle which is counterproductive in bed). Those of you who did Kegels and then stopped or did them just sporadically (like I did) or - on the other hand - those who had a bad EQ when they started doing them may answer this question best because the somewhat made a trial to isolate the variables in question.

jordey · Dec 5, 2014

Satyr;623691 said:
ok, thanks for your contributions. though, this is somewhat a digression from the topic, I as an experienced lifter who has trained for over 10 years now concur with all the advocates of strength training here. And yes, injuries happen in any sport, regardless which one it is. going for your max isn't playing roulette if you know your limits (and thus know how to overcome them) and cultivated a proper technique. In the long run, though, heavy weights are taxing for the bone structure, but then again, certain signs of wear will show in any sport as well if it's practiced with competitive ambition.

@SWM: That you use your pelvic muscles as well is self-evident. How would you not? Do you really think there's just one muscle in your lower body that won't be recruited during squats and DLs? Surely not. Of course, you can stress your PC more extensively (but not necessarily more intensively!) by Kegeling deliberately but that you tax them during strength training is pretty obvious. Just try to flex glut and see what happens. The only reason why maybe nobody ever thought about this is that you (luckily!) don't think about your PC muscles while doing squats and stuff

@borninfigi: what I wanted to know is if there are other lifters who are under the impression that they miss out on the benefits of Kegels. Now, I figure that a lot of people will say yes without even thinking about it because it has become such a commonplace that one usually doesn't scrutinize it, but having a good EQ is a different thing than having a better EQ as a consequence of Kegels. I for my part couldn't affirm that. My EQ in general didn't improve because of Kegels nor did it worsen after I had abandoned them. Moreover, I had less problems in keeping an erection because my PC muscles weren't permanently toned (which was the case almost every time after I kegeled and althoug I certainly didn't overdo it). So this led me to think that I already had very strong PC muscles (to give another example connected to the original therapeutic purposes this exercise was invented :I can literally delay a piss for hours if I want to). And this insight led me to the conjecture that strength training might be the cause of it.

But for those who are irritated about the whole connection between lifting and PC muscle strength (though, it's pretty obvious once you think about it), I could simplify things by just asking if there are some of you who aren't so sure if Kegels served them the benefits which many men ascribe to them (first and foremost a better EQ) and who had similar problems (namely: an often involuntarily flexed PC muscle which is counterproductive in bed). Those of you who did Kegels and then stopped or did them just sporadically (like I did) or - on the other hand - those who had a bad EQ when they started doing them may answer this question best because the somewhat made a trial to isolate the variables in question.

well ill give my experiences with it. i am into strength training, and have also never felt much from kegels. doing kegels has never negatively affected me, but i just never really noticed much from doing them, and have pretty good control over my pc muscle so dont really feel the need to do them.

jordey · Dec 5, 2014

also i forgot to add, but the fatigue and training of the pc muscle is probably going to be alot more with stength specific training. most strength training requires alot of intra abdominal pressure, which in turn uses the pelvic floor. just weightlifting (such as in a bodybuilding style) may not have the same effect as there isnt as much focus one the pressure in the body, and more on just stressing individual muscles

partytime5423 · Dec 5, 2014

tb007;623665 said:
Cyclists have shit eq because they are constantly putting pressure on their perineum and slowly damaging their pelvic floor nerves and muscles.

Lifting, on the other hand, is very beneficial for health. Maybe not super heavy all the time but every now and then is fine, if not optimal.

I cycle for exercise 60 miles per week. My EQ is fine

acromegaly · Dec 5, 2014

k18;623683 said:
It's hard to give a basic answer, but I think heavy weight-lifting for too long uses up most of the body's energy tank and leaves little room for an effective PE session:...

super good point, heavy lifting burdens the pelvic floor AND you are taxing the CNS.
If you have maxed heavy before on squats or deadlifts you know the next day(week sometimes) it can be hard to put your shoes on or wipe your own ass, let alone trying to give 100% effort into penis enlargement.

ULTIM8GAINZ · Dec 5, 2014

And I would continue to kegel, unless you have other effective exercises. I've been doing them for a few years and have only good things to say about them. My EQ hovers around the same margin usually but sometimes it's better than ever, and this is directly correlated to diet and fitness. So I would advise to consider my previous post.

Also on the other side of the spectrum, rather than over-training affecting EQ, lack of exercise will also affect EQ greatly. So it's best to do fitness in between both extremes, for example at least light, moderate, or medium-high exercising. You can even inter-change the intensity and duration of workouts weekly and include, exclude or cycle different exercises here and there. One day I might do 3 exercises, next day 5, then one week I might do the same exercises every day, it's more intuitive.

ma999 · Dec 5, 2014

There are a lot of people and forums advocating women to stop doing kegels and to start doing squats. But other PE sites advocate the same thing and it relates the same to men.

"A Kegel attempts to strengthen the pelvic floor, but it really only continues to pull the sacrum inward promoting even more weakness, and more PF gripping. The muscles that balance out the anterior pull on the sacrum are the glutes. A lack of glutes (having no butt) is what makes this group so much more susceptible to pelvic floor disorder (PFD). Zero lumbar curvature (missing the little curve at the small of the back) is the most telling sign that the pelvic floor is beginning to weaken. An easier way to say this is: Weak glutes + too many Kegels = PFD." Squatting also stretches the pelvic floor and blood circulation, and like mentioned causes raises testosterone.

Satyr · Dec 5, 2014

jordey;623719 said:
well ill give my experiences with it. i am into strength training, and have also never felt much from kegels. doing kegels has never negatively affected me, but i just never really noticed much from doing them, and have pretty good control over my pc muscle so dont really feel the need to do them.

It's good to hear that I'm not the only that has made this experience. That was the main point I was addressing. If others are under similar impressions I'd love to hear.

regarding the other aspects raised here: I agree and, of course, since I've been long enough in the lifting game I know that it has mainly positive effects on EQ. And it struck me as immediately plausible that the pelvic muscles are trained, too (thanks to Ma99 for the citation, btw>It's a further substantiation of my hypothesis). But I wasn't sure to which degree the PC muscles are conditioned because in terms of strength training (Powerlifting as well btw, cheers to jordey) they aren't a very well discussed matter as you can imagine. So that's why I opened this thread and try to hear experience values from other "heavy" lifters (be it Bodybuilding with an emphasis on compound movements who don't shy away from the 1-5 rep range and train functional strength, weight lifters or PLers).

What I can't subscribe to is Acromegaly's statement: yes, a heavy workout is taxing and sometimes if I go really hard on singles it can be so exhausting that I won't be able to get a good erection afterwards (always train in the evening, so there's not much time in between). But that's the exception, not the rule and on the next morning I'm good to go again. In fact, these are only rare situations, I sometimes even do my PE right after lifting and before I eat due to time management issues and even that works often enough.
There's no way that one is out of business for a week, that's just a dramatic exaggeration. I don't know if you do train like that but your statements seem to be based more on hearsay than on personal experience (no offense but I heard a lot of such comments during the years and they always came from people who themselves lacked experience in that field>same with heavy lifting=bad health. It's just not true for various reasons brought to the fore here by different people). I know from experience and I know it from other experienced athletes I've trained with in the club.

@k18: appreciate your contributions but, with all being said above by me and several others, I also disagree with your opinion that one should do something in between like fitness to maintain a good health. I'm in very good shape (and so is obviously Jordey) and just because I'm a Powerlifter doesn't mean that I eat mainly crap in abundant quantities just to get the calories in. I eat very healthy and have a very low body fat percentage. Because of this and because of my ambitions and my passion for this sport (think about it: how would I otherwise have practiced for over a decade now?) I won't consider changing to fitness even in the slightest. And though you aren't a strength athlete you should be able to relate to this since I'm sure you also have your passions which you wouldn't just simply give up for PE...if it were a matter - what, like I said before from my very opening post on, it isn't because I generally have no EQ-problems,caused by strength training (apart from the rare situations I talked about above) . On the contrary: let alone the higher testosterone etc, obviously I also don't need Kegels because my PC muscles are very strong from strength training (and as it seems I'm not the only one>Jordey for example). Kegels just didn't do anything for me, they didn't improve my EQ. More than that: as I said above they had - in my special case>that doesn't have to apply to others - a negative effect on my EQ insofar as they did induce permanent tension in the PC muscles. Kegels may work for a lot of people, but in my case they don't (except as an auxiliary tool for stretching and girth work). And that's what I wanted to share because I'm interested in hearing other voices who have the same impression.

acromegaly · Dec 5, 2014

Satyr;623843 said:
What I can't subscribe to is Acromegaly's statement: yes, a heavy workout is taxing and sometimes if I go really hard on singles it can be so exhausting that I won't be able to get a good erection afterwards (always train in the evening, so there's not much time in between). But that's the exception, not the rule and on the next morning I'm good to go again. In fact, these are only rare situations, I sometimes even do my PE right after lifting and before I eat due to time management issues and even that works often enough.
There's no way that one is out of business for a week, that's just a dramatic exaggeration. I don't know if you do train like that but your statements seem to be based more on hearsay than on personal experience (no offense but I heard a lot of such comments during the years and they always came from people who themselves lacked experience in that field>same with heavy lifting=bad health. It's just not true for various reasons brought to the fore here by different people). I know from experience and I know it from other experienced athletes I've trained with in the club.

You caught me dude

I don't lift weights, hell I don't even do penis enlargement (I'm a woman) you have all been a part of my elaborate ruse and now I've been exposed

I'm so sorry

youknowme123321 · Dec 5, 2014

lifting never negatively impacted my EQ or PE workouts. only made them better b/c of the improved health that comes along with them. I did have lower back issues for 6 months at one time but yoga and Pilates solved that

Satyr · Dec 6, 2014

acromegaly;623872 said:
You caught me dude I don't lift weights, hell I don't even do penis enlargement (I'm a woman) you have all been a part of my elaborate ruse and now I've been exposed I'm so sorry

na, don't get cute with me, Missus.

You know that I was talkin about lifting heavy (1-3 rep range), not lifting in general. Btw: usually you don't train with your 100% of your RM1, but with 90 or 95% which makes a huge difference with respect to the impact of the CNS. Also you don't train that heavy in every workout, just to make that clear. Other than that, I've never ever heard of somebody being out for a week, not even after a competition.

jordey · Dec 6, 2014

Satyr;623843 said:
It's good to hear that I'm not the only that has made this experience. That was the main point I was addressing. If others are under similar impressions I'd love to hear.

regarding the other aspects raised here: I agree and, of course, since I've been long enough in the lifting game I know that it has mainly positive effects on EQ. And it struck me as immediately plausible that the pelvic muscles are trained, too (thanks to Ma99 for the citation, btw>It's a further substantiation of my hypothesis). But I wasn't sure to which degree the PC muscles are conditioned because in terms of strength training (Powerlifting as well btw, cheers to jordey) they aren't a very well discussed matter as you can imagine. So that's why I opened this thread and try to hear experience values from other "heavy" lifters (be it Bodybuilding with an emphasis on compound movements who don't shy away from the 1-5 rep range and train functional strength, weight lifters or PLers).

What I can't subscribe to is Acromegaly's statement: yes, a heavy workout is taxing and sometimes if I go really hard on singles it can be so exhausting that I won't be able to get a good erection afterwards (always train in the evening, so there's not much time in between). But that's the exception, not the rule and on the next morning I'm good to go again. In fact, these are only rare situations, I sometimes even do my PE right after lifting and before I eat due to time management issues and even that works often enough.
There's no way that one is out of business for a week, that's just a dramatic exaggeration. I don't know if you do train like that but your statements seem to be based more on hearsay than on personal experience (no offense but I heard a lot of such comments during the years and they always came from people who themselves lacked experience in that field>same with heavy lifting=bad health. It's just not true for various reasons brought to the fore here by different people). I know from experience and I know it from other experienced athletes I've trained with in the club.

@k18: appreciate your contributions but, with all being said above by me and several others, I also disagree with your opinion that one should do something in between like fitness to maintain a good health. I'm in very good shape (and so is obviously Jordey) and just because I'm a Powerlifter doesn't mean that I eat mainly crap in abundant quantities just to get the calories in. I eat very healthy and have a very low body fat percentage. Because of this and because of my ambitions and my passion for this sport (think about it: how would I otherwise have practiced for over a decade now?) I won't consider changing to fitness even in the slightest. And though you aren't a strength athlete you should be able to relate to this since I'm sure you also have your passions which you wouldn't just simply give up for PE...if it were a matter - what, like I said before from my very opening post on, it isn't because I generally have no EQ-problems,caused by strength training (apart from the rare situations I talked about above) . On the contrary: let alone the higher testosterone etc, obviously I also don't need Kegels because my PC muscles are very strong from strength training (and as it seems I'm not the only one>Jordey for example). Kegels just didn't do anything for me, they didn't improve my EQ. More than that: as I said above they had - in my special case>that doesn't have to apply to others - a negative effect on my EQ insofar as they did induce permanent tension in the PC muscles. Kegels may work for a lot of people, but in my case they don't (except as an auxiliary tool for stretching and girth work). And that's what I wanted to share because I'm interested in hearing other voices who have the same impression.

100% agree. as for someone being out for a week after a one rep max, ive never experienced this either. yes, it may take me a week before i can hit 100% again, but then no one hits one rep maxes every week as it would be stupid and an ineffective way of training. im usually fully recovered in a few days as far as cns is concerned, but then your cns doesnt have to be 100% for you to function normally. the only situation i can think of of being out for a week is with a new lifter doing an intense workout, and being sore and stiff for days afterwards, but this is muscular fatigue and not cns fatigue so i suppose the point still stands.

as far as eq goes, having bad eq after a 1rm is probably similar to just being tired from anything - e.g., long day at work, lack of sleep, out and about for ages. just generally fatigue. 1rm's are also usually only done at the most every 6 weeks, so the impact is negligible. i personally only max like every 3 or 4 months so the impact is even less, if any

ma999 · Dec 6, 2014

I know this is mostly about EQ but it still goes hand in hand.My plmain interest in this has been on Premature Ejaculation more than EQ. I stumbled on MANY posts on body building. Com on how squating cured their premature ejaculation and EQ. Idk if it is the building the glutes and sacrum pelvic floor relationship I pointed out is the exclusive, or squats doing more based on there movement.I feel squats give a certain stretching to the floor is one idea and it makes it contract in a different manner. I find deads hit my glutes Harder than squating as I tend to be quad dominant. But I don't lift heavy do to time so I fit in martial arts and mostly kettle bell swings. Just my thoughts and experience.

acromegaly · Dec 6, 2014

Satyr;623964 said:
na, don't get cute with me, Missus. You know that I was talkin about lifting heavy (1-3 rep range), not lifting in general. Btw: usually you don't train with your 100% of your RM1, but with 90 or 95% which makes a huge difference with respect to the impact of the CNS. Also you don't train that heavy in every workout, just to make that clear. Other than that, I've never ever heard of somebody being out for a week, not even after a competition.

If you are in a powerlifting club and everybody doesn't have a fucked up injury then YOURE the liar. This forum is about reality so if you want to pretend that heavy lifting is healthy go away

Satyr · Dec 6, 2014

man, calm down, I've never called you a liar, just said that you seem to lack experience in that field (which is a difference because you never claimed to lift that way nor did I insinuate that you did so) and I expect the same from you. If you would have read carefully what has been written in this thread by me and others, you would have realized that no-one denied that injuries in competitive sports are common, but that holds true for many sports and not only PL or WL. I (and not I alone) just said that heavy lifting per se is not unhealthy or let me put it this way: by far not as unhealthy as you suggest it is. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages. A minor injury here and there is always possible and you won't avoid that in BB either. You can lift heavy safely by calculating your RM percentages carefully and conservatively. A major injury is probable (at least in the long run) if you follow an aggressive competitive protocol (which, needless to say, a lot of competitors do>and yeah, in fact, there were indeed some athletes in my last club who had more severe problems, but they weren't the majority). But that doesn't mean that you can't go heavy, even if you don't compete and do it safely.

BornInFigi · Dec 6, 2014

acromegaly;623995 said:
If you are in a powerlifting club and everybody doesn't have a fucked up injury then YOURE the liar. This forum is about reality so if you want to pretend that heavy lifting is healthy go away

Lolwut?

acromegaly · Dec 6, 2014

Powerlifting helps your EQ? Give me a freaking break. If you want a better dick/sex life how are you going to endorse heavy lifting which will ruin your mobility and feel exhausted all the time.
It's like saying if you want to be a better painter practice on a punching bag. It makes no sense
Sorry if I offended anyone
/rant

ma999 · Dec 6, 2014

Acromegaly I don't know you, I'm not offended by your opinion and have every right to it but what are you basing your opinion on? I currently dont lift heavy but have in the past. Ive done Judo and jiu jujitsu for the last 10 years and wrestled 10 before that. I have had trained with world class atheletes and every one I have ever met and trained with has done a heavy lifting regimene and as no effect their mobility.Alll those sports demand mobility and flexibility. Deep squats improve your mobility, in depth and hip extension and has been proven safer and than the old belief that deep squats are bad for you . This can be googled.The people that spout its bad are just like the same ones that PE will make you go impotent and so dangerous who never done . Its ignorance.

As for being exhausted and injury free I found weight lifting once conditioned no more exhausting than any other sport depending on how hard you push. And on injury the group of people I seen with the most injuries are runners and soccer players. Hell look at the rate of injury In PE and people work through it

On lifitng on how it improves your EQ it's been mentioned countless times CNC stress from lifting greatly increase testosterone. The second in like I mentioned their is a lot of evidence about the connection of your pelvic floor and glutes and how kegels can make it worsend people claiming it has fixed there premature ejaculation and EQ. All of it can be googled for more info.

I'm not taking any side or bashing anybodys opinion or belief. My whole interest in this is not lifitng heavy as a whole but the connection of the pelvic floor and glutes relationship and how people are fixing their pre mature ejaculatuon and EQ from that

acromegaly · Dec 6, 2014

ma999;624011 said:
Acromegaly I don't know you, I'm not offended by your opinion and have every right to it but what are you basing your opinion on? I currently dont lift heavy but have in the past. Ive done Judo and jiu jujitsu for the last 10 years and wrestled 10 before that. I have had trained with world class atheletes and every one I have ever met and trained with has done a heavy lifting regimene and as no effect their mobility.Alll those sports demand mobility and flexibility. Deep squats improve your mobility, in depth and hip extension and has been proven safer and than the old belief that deep squats are bad for you . This can be googled.The people that spout its bad are just like the same ones that PE will make you go impotent and so dangerous who never done . Its ignorance.

As for being exhausted and injury free I found weight lifting once conditioned no more exhausting than any other sport depending on how hard you push. And on injury the group of people I seen with the most injuries are runners and soccer players. Hell look at the rate of injury In PE and people work through it

On lifitng on how it improves your EQ it's been mentioned countless times CNC stress from lifting greatly increase testosterone. The second in like I mentioned their is a lot of evidence about the connection of your pelvic floor and glutes and how kegels can make it worsend people claiming it has fixed there premature ejaculation and EQ. All of it can be googled for more info.

I'm not taking any side or bashing anybodys opinion or belief. My whole interest in this is not lifitng heavy as a whole but the connection of the pelvic floor and glutes relationship and how people are fixing their pre mature ejaculatuon and EQ from that

I agree that weight lifting is great for your health, but when you start to go overboard with heavy lifting its going to bite you in the ass eventually
I am probably one of the younger guys here, but for several years i was obsessed with strongman and being in the worlds strongest man contest like the guys on tv. I started by joining a powerlifting club. I trained very hard every single day. One day I did front squats after lifting atlas stones and i blew out my hips/groin, and i spent the better part of 2012 stuck in a chair unable to walk...
im not saying DONT LIFT WEIGHTS, what im saying is if you get into an extreme sport like powerlifting or strongman you are not getting healthier you are just taking risks
i currently compete in a different strength sport armwrestling. i am able to be a big strong guy and have friends with similar interest without sacrificing my health. and my sex life has never been better, since that is the whole point of this discussion is how stregth training effects the pelvic floor muscles...

jordey · Dec 6, 2014

acromegaly;624012 said:
I agree that weight lifting is great for your health, but when you start to go overboard with heavy lifting its going to bite you in the ass eventually
I am probably one of the younger guys here, but for several years i was obsessed with strongman and being in the worlds strongest man contest like the guys on tv. I started by joining a powerlifting club. I trained very hard every single day. One day I did front squats after lifting atlas stones and i blew out my hips/groin, and i spent the better part of 2012 stuck in a chair unable to walk...
im not saying DONT LIFT WEIGHTS, what im saying is if you get into an extreme sport like powerlifting or strongman you are not getting healthier you are just taking risks
i currently compete in a different strength sport armwrestling. i am able to be a big strong guy and have friends with similar interest without sacrificing my health. and my sex life has never been better, since that is the whole point of this discussion is how stregth training effects the pelvic floor muscles...

powerlifting and strong man arent extreme sports, and they dont have exreme injuries. statistically, powerlifters and weightlifters dont get injured much compared to other sports. you can certainly get healthier doing these sports, and many do. the ones that do not get healthier are usually the super heavy weights, and/ or those without much knoweldge, and/or those who are taking a large amount of drugs to be at the top. we are not however talking about the top 1% in competitive sports in this thread though, so it is irrelevant.

the reason you got that bad hip injury could be a numbe of things. it could of been innadequate warm up in your hip area. it could of been poor strength in some supporting and stabilising muscles. it could of just been bad luck. on a whole though, the sport or exercise is not to blame. look at how many people injury themselves just in day to day life. think of how many people you know with bad backs or bad joints who dont/ never have lifted.

i went to a powerlifting comp recently as a friend was competing. out of the 60 or so lifters, there was only one injury on the day accross all lifts. the injury wasnt severe, and the guy was 53. if as you say injuries and risk are so great, there surely should of been more injuries. also look at the natural strength lifters on youtbue, and you will find the vast majority are injury free. it seems those on PED's get injured more due to their strength increasing faster than their supporting systems can handle. but again we aren't talking about those in this thread.

i should be competing in powerlifting next year, and have been training for almost 3 years. i dont do any cardio yet my blood pressure is ideal, and my resting heart rate is around 60bpm. im stronger than the average guy, have better bone density and stronger joints. its also a known fact that simply holding more muscle and being active reduces cancer risks and other conditions significantly. so how are these not good for your health? ?

Heavy strength training and it's influence on the PC muscles

0

0

0

0

0

Member

0

0

0

1

0

0

0

0

0

1

0

0

0

0

Similar threads