Creatine vs. Whey Protein

[Scrub Ducky]

Which one of these helps to build bulky muscle faster?

Some info about me.I know some of this is important if your gonna take creatine...
I'm young...18
My family DOES have a history of kidney stones/problems
I have a very high metabolism

Thank you very much

 

[Spektrum]

Whey Protein.

Stay away from creatine. I've known many people who have taken it and soon had joint problems. Also, they lost about 10 pounds after getting off creatine because of the water gain you experience while taking it.

The point of creatine is making muscles heal faster. This means you can do more reps in the gym in your later sets, can have longer workouts, and you don't have to take a 2 day break after an intense workout. Your muscles heal up quicker, but your joints do not.

It also makes your body retain too much water. This is why many people on creatine have that 'bloated' muscle look. It's fairly obvious when someone is on it. You can gain up to 15 pounds of extra water weight while on it.

Stick with the natural stuff. Eat a LOT of protein, if you weigh 130 pounds, try eating 200 grams a day. The biggest part of putting on muscle is rest, rest, rest! Look up overtraining on the internet, its a big newbie mistake.

 

[oopapercutoo]

Whey protein is probably your best bet...Protein is definately essential to building muscle, whereas Creatine is not.

Spektrum, you're right about what you said about Creatine causing you to retain water, but in all the research I've done on creatine, I've never found a reliable source saying anything about negative effects on joints. Providing that the user follows the proper dose amounts there should be no adverse effects with creatine.

If these people were taking well over the recommend dose then it's plausible that they may have experience some problems, but that's the case with ANY supplement. The number one tool in bodybuilding is you head...make sure you use it or you're phucked.

 

[fender646]

I used to take creatine and it definatley worked better and faster than whey protein. The problem with the protein, is that you have to take a whole fuck load everyday to get minimal results.

Creatine does inflate the muscles cells with water. I dont really see how thats bad. But its more than just "water weight". When you take creatine, make sure to take it with grape juice or something else with a lot of sugar. The sucrose in sugar helps the creatine get into the cells and gets the cells to take in more water and get bigger. Which means your bigger and stronger.

 

[Shafty]

Actually creatine is supposed to counter the excessive water retention that most people suffer from occasionally. This happens when the stuff draws water from beneath your skin and other parts of your body, pumping it into the muscles, resulting in a lean yet muscular look. This should happen if it is used correctly.
Another important factor that should be taken into consideration when using creatine is making sure you drink enough water. This will eliminate any possible negative effects to the kidneys, and prevent your body from dehydrating too much.

I've experimented with creatine and found it to be quite unnecessary. If anything it is useful for cosmetic purposes...
but then again, that's just my opinion. Other people might experience more benefits from it.

 

[fender646]

i think it works pretty well. But your right, after you drink the creatin mixed with the juice, drink plenty of water throughout the day, everyday.

 

[Scrub Ducky]

Great Posts you guys.
I think I might just buy a little of both and test both of them.I have already been using whey protein for quite some time, because I wanted to stick with natural stuff, but I'm not that happy with where I am.I also know a guy who uses protein and he got huge in like 6 months.

When your on creatine you need to drink to hydrate your body, I now know that...but do you get thirsty?It'll be harder to keep up if not.

 

[Shafty]

...but do you get thirsty?It'll be harder to keep up if not.

Not necessarily. That's why it is crucial to drink close to a gallon every day to ensure that you stay properly hydrated. Your body might not signal you to drink more, so you have to remember to do it even if you're not feeling all that thirsty.

 

[bigbutnottoo]

BOTH.


Also as far as creatine and water-most of your muscle is in fact made up of water, so that is beneficial.

I am currently doing my own study of:

Creatine vs. Whey vs. NO2

and all combinations.

 

[Spektrum]

Originally posted by Scrub Ducky
Great Posts you guys.
I think I might just buy a little of both and test both of them.I have already been using whey protein for quite some time, because I wanted to stick with natural stuff, but I'm not that happy with where I am.I also know a guy who uses protein and he got huge in like 6 months.

When your on creatine you need to drink to hydrate your body, I now know that...but do you get thirsty?It'll be harder to keep up if not.

Your age probably has a little something to do with not being able to grow. I gained about 5 pounds a year when I was lifting at 18. Now at 21, I'm gaining about 5 pounds a month, maybe a little more. There's an old saying in bodybuilding, "Eat big, get big". It's working for me.

You also said you have a history of kidney stones. DRINK WATER! and lots of it. Go the bathroom when you feel the urge. My family also has a history of them and the horror stories they tell me are terrible.

 

[bobbdobbs]

Whey protein is a relatively inexpensive and concentrated means of increasing the protein in your diet. Pound for pound, it is cheaper than things like poultry, fish and beef.

If you are body building, you'll want to increase your protein intake because that is what is used to build your own muscles.

You can do it with natural food, like chicken, but if you have a really high metabolism, you have to eat a lot of it, which is where whey protein can be useful.

Creatine, on the other hand, is simply a cell energy source. It may help get you one or two more reps in the weight lifting gym.

It does also tend to cause people to pick up 5lbs or so of water retention, but it is in the muscles, so that's good. But 5lbs spread around all the muscle tissue isn't all that noticeable.

Creatine is pretty cheap, though, as far as suppliments go.

 

[Shafty]

The biggest advantage of whey protein is its fast absorption rate, meaning that your body will process and utilize the stuff very quickly.
(compare to quick carbs and low glycemic carbs versus whey and, say, casein)

This is only beneficial immediately after you've worked out though, since your body is primed to take high glycemic nutrients to counter the catabolic process that kicks after a workout session. At any other time of the day something like casein (milk protein) or egg protein would be a better choice because they absorb slowly and don't cause a rise in your insulin levels, insuling being the hormone that is primarily responsible for controlling your bodyfat accumulation.

Casein and egg protein can also be found at places like GNC. I agree with bobbdobbs on the cost efficiency of protein powders, because let's face it, we can't all afford to have 4-6 meals of poultry, fish or beef every single day.

 

[stillwantmore]

Creatine IS the cheaper of the two choices. However, it will not help you pack on much muscle. Most of the "weight gain" is in fact water being retained more in your muscles. Also, if you are taking your creatine with grape juice or, it is a very high carbohydrate combined creatine supplement such as Muscle Tech's "Cell Tech" (around 75 grams of simple carbs per serving), the weight gain you see is probably FAT gain. Creatine buffs...the guys who are the hard core users that swear by the stuff....as well as the companies (Like Muscle Tech or ProLab) strongly advocate that you take your creatine with a high carbohydrate beverage. WHY? Because the high dose of carbs taken at the time of creatine consumption (Muscle Tech sez their "research" indicates you need at least 75 mg of carbs) is supposed to cause an 'insulin spike' and this in turn, is supposed to help your system absorb the creatine ("dump it" into your system is usually the term they use) more effectively.

All this of course creates problems for people looking to add muscle mass and at the same time lose body fat. It becomes an uphill battle. Not to mention the fact that if you have diabetes or a family history of it, you better not be messing with your insulin levels like this.

Whey protien is the better choice but usually more expensive. If you need to add 150+ grams of protien to your daily protien intake to gain the muscle mass you need, ...that's a lot of protien shakes. At least 3 shakes a day even with milk (mmm bovine hormones....mmm...hope you dont have a family history of cancers too). Youre also looking at making a pretty drastic (for most people anyway) dietary change. Shopping for food at the grocery store becomes a hunt for protien rich foods. Milk, eggs, meats, seafood, especially TUNA. From what I recall TUNA is about the best and least expensive source of concentrated protien. VERY CLEAN source too. Meaning theres nothing extra in the tuna. Something like 25-30 grams of protien in one .60 cent can of tuna.

So I guess the best bet is to analyze your budget and see how high of a protien intake you can afford LOL. I remember when I was working out more in the Marines and would read "Muscle Mag" or similar pubs. I would read about these body builders who supposedly consumed 300 or 400+ grams of protien a day. I was like, damn how the hell they afford that, their growth hormones or steroids and living....oh wait, they have corporate sponsors!:bottumsup

 

[TimBo755]

Whey protein all the way, i've been taking it for sometime now....i've gained about 5-7 pounds of muscle so far, i lift 1 on and 1 off type routine..mostly upper body.


i recommend 100% whey protein, mint flavor..tastes very good with skim milk.

 

[quijjiboo]

Whey protein is essential if you are working out and want to add muscle. The difference between trainers who gain and trainers who suck is DIET (whey protein is food, not a supplement). More calories + more protein is the key, believe me on this one.

I also think creatine is beneficial, and won't cause you any side effects even at 18. It will help you gain faster, and you'll have some extra temorary size while you are on it. But dont worry about looking bloated, the water stored is intracellular. Muscles perform and recover optimally when they are super-hydrated.

Btw, protein and creatine are about the only two effective 'supplements' for gaining muscle, props to you for choosing them.

 

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by stillwantmore
I would read about these body builders who supposedly consumed 300 or 400+ grams of protien a day. I was like, damn how the hell they afford that, their growth hormones or steroids and living....oh wait, they have corporate sponsors!:bottumsup

and gay sugar-daddy sponsors rofl

 

[TheExecutioner]

Originally posted by Spektrum

Stick with the natural stuff. Eat a LOT of protein, if you weigh 130 pounds, try eating 200 grams a day. The biggest part of putting on muscle is rest, rest, rest! Look up overtraining on the internet, its a big newbie mistake.

Can i just say something here, There is nothing Unnatural about Creatine. Your body nautrually makes it, and the foods you eat contain it.

 

[fender646]

yeah, creatine is in fish and eggs. the powder is just the synthetic form, i think.

 

[Scrub Ducky]

Well I got a big tub of creatine and whey protein.Now can I take the creatine with cranberry juice instead of grape juice?

Also, since I'm going to be taking both the protein and creatine, how should I go about doin it?Like, 1 day protein, 1 day creatine or a little bit of both after a workout?
I usually work out 6 on 1 off.

Thanks to the mod who moved this thread,for some reason I didnt see this health and fitness board.Im a wetard

 

[Shafty]

Now can I take the creatine with cranberry juice instead of grape juice?

Any high-glycemic juice will do (high glycemic = simple carbs, sugar)

It doesn't necessarily have to be grape juice. I don't know why people put so much emphasis on its importance, since it is just one among many of the alternatives.

BTW, your 6 on 1 off workout routine seems like a bit much to me... I'd say you would get better results by decreasing the amount of days you work out. Try something like a 4 day split routine for starters, that should allow your muscles to recover properly!

Oh yeah, and take the protein post workout, mixed with WATER. This is crucial, because if you mix it with milk it'll absorb much slower, resulting in the catabolic process (muscle tissue breakdown which kicks in after a workout) being prolonged. The whey with water alone will be put to use by your body almost immediately. Also take a good multivitamin after each workout session.

They should both be taken every day to see the desired effects. Creatine can be taken at almost any time of the day, I prefer 1 dose in the morning and 1 in the evening.

And always remember to eat 4-6 evenly spaced meals every day. This will keep your insulin levels steady and your energy and mood high! Your protein intake should be 150-200 grams for starters, divided equally among the meals. Aim for about 30 grams of it per meal.

 

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by Scrub Ducky
Well I got a big tub of creatine and whey protein.Now can I take the creatine with cranberry juice instead of grape juice?

Also, since I'm going to be taking both the protein and creatine, how should I go about doin it?Like, 1 day protein, 1 day creatine or a little bit of both after a workout?

In the long run the type of juice wouldnt really matter, as long as you take in sufficient amount of carbs, and that they are high glycemic, and quick digesting (grape juice just happens to fit those criteria nicely).
Read this article:
http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/186nutri.html
This is the best advice to follow re taking protein and creatine around your workout.

 

[$$$$]

I have studied a lot on creatine and Whey since i did some mild Bodybuilding. Anyway Creatine helps super hydrating your muscles. IT causes your body to absorb a lot more water and retain it in the muscles. Probably the secopnd or third day into the loading phase you will notice your urine turn yellow. This is because your body is retaining that water so you need to drink more. If i remember correctly when on creatine and doing any excercises you want to drink 1-1.5 gallons of water a day.

What Whey does is supplies you with the necessary protein to rebuild the muscle tears you created after a workout. IF you dont have enough protein in your body then your body will begin to take away from other parts of your systems functions to rebuild those muscles. Its best to take your protein shake within one hour of the workout. Same with your creatine because after a workout your creatin uptake is increased. Many people recommend just spooning the dose of creatine in your mouth then washing it down with your shake or water. Thats what i do. It will take a while to get used to the chalky taste but its not hard.

Hope this helps

 

[streetdreamer02]

how manyc ups of water is 1.5 gallon?

 

[bigbutnottoo]

Originally posted by streetdreamer02
how manyc ups of water is 1.5 gallon?

192 oz, so about 24- Eight Ounce cups

 

[SLICEDBEEF]

It doesn't matter if you have to choose between protien and steroids... you'll still gain more muscle by taking the protien without the steroids than you would by taking the steroids and no protien... protien is essential to muscle growth because that's what muscles are...PROTIEN.

Definantly go with the protien! and take the creatine as an extra, if you can afford it.

 

[7 inches+]

What brand of creatine did you get?

It should tell you on the container how to take the creatine, most of the time you have to load up on the stuff the first 4-5 days taking 15-20g a day, then after that you need 5-7g a day. I tried some about 7 years ago, I think it's cheaper now than when I tried it. I loaded up on the stuff like it told me on the container, the tub I bought was just big enough for the loading period, I had some other things come up,so I didn't have the money to buy more of it. When I was on the 4th or 5th day of loading, I was getting some very good pumps while lifting,especially in my arms.

What brand of whey protein did you get?

I just recently started lifting again and been using optimum nutrition 100% whey in chocolate flavor, probably one of the best protein powders on the market. It has 23g of protein in each scoop,also has over 3.5g of glutamine & glutamine precursors and 5g of BCAAs in each scoop. It even taste good with just water, I tried a protein powder in the past and even with mixing it with water in the blender it taste like I was drinking cement. The ON 100% whey is good stuff, highly reccomend the stuff. It tastes gooood :bottumsup Right now I'm trying to lower my bodyfat% without losing muscle, once I get my bodyfat% down lower and start to bulk up, I'm thinking about trying creatine again and seeing what happens.

 

[SLICEDBEEF]

Check out www.prosourceonline.com

Click on the Prosource brand of supplements in the drop-down window on the right. They have a 1000gram tub of creatine for under 30 bucks and their Whey Protien Isolate is the best tasting and more pure than Whey protien concentrate....the same kind they use in hospital's, with no carb's.

Their's probably protien just as good out there with the same price as long as you find the Whey Isolate...not concentrate.

Good Luck

 

[bigbutnottoo]

I do recall reading a few studies a couple years back that determined that a "loading phase" really was not that necessary in the long run. If you want to save money,skip the loading phase.

My Favorite creatine is EAs Phosphagen and Favorite Protein is NtroTech by MuscleTech ( I never like their Creatine Cell Tech too much though). Its been a couple years so there may be better stuff out now, not sure.

 

[penguinsfan]

If your family is prone to kidney stones, it is absolutely essential that you stay hydrated. Drink a glass of water every hour or half-hour. Even if you're not thirsty, force yourself to suck it down. Here's a little tip: Keep an index card or piece of scratch paper in your pocket and take it with you all day. If you're at work or school, take it out where it is visible. Use it to keep a tally of your daily water intake. It is a great way to see it and remind yourself if you slack off and don't get enough water intake.

 

[wbfootball]

you can take both. If you take creatine, also take Glucosomine, its a joint supplement. Creatine can lead to sore, injured joints. Whey protein is the ultimate protein source, so if you want to supplement at all definitely go with whey. I've been taking whey for a while and it's helped, but I'm going to start taking Creadrive(creatine with taurine)with glucosomine, since my joints have never been good in the first place. Kids on my football team have definitely benefited from creatine, you jus tneed to cycle it right and take it as directed and with lots of water. Drink lots of milk too, its as vitally important as any other supplement.

 

[quijjiboo]

I do recall reading a few studies a couple years back that determined that a "loading phase" really was not that necessary in the long run. If you want to save money,skip the loading phase.

My Favorite creatine is EAs Phosphagen and Favorite Protein is NtroTech by MuscleTech ( I never like their Creatine Cell Tech too much though). Its been a couple years so there may be better stuff out now, not sure.

True, there was also a study saying that you only need around 3g/day to keep a max level. So take 5g/day and you're good to go.

 

[bigbutnottoo]

I would not necesarily say Whey is the best for everything. Some other proteins such as cassein (sp?) are slower absorbtion and may be better for some people/situations.

 

[quijjiboo]

I would not necesarily say Whey is the best for everything. Some other proteins such as cassein (sp?) are slower absorbtion and may be better for some people/situations.

Definitely, a mix of the two is best. Except after your workout, then use only whey.

I saw a study showing how quickly whey is digested, and alot of it is burned up before it can go to use..

 

[blue1214198203]

take both, just dont take as much creatine as advertised. after a loading phase you can maintain that level of creatine in your muscles by simply taking 5 grams of creatine a day beyond that. and then make sure you drink 8 ounces of water extra everyday for every 5 grams of creatine you are taking.

 

[Dario]

Definitely, a mix of the two is best. Except after your workout, then use only whey.

I saw a study showing how quickly whey is digested, and alot of it is burned up before it can go to use..

You are correct.

I take a 100% whey shake post-workout and I take a scoop of Isomatrix (best blend on the market) every night before bed.

 

[penguinsfan]

and then make sure you drink 8 ounces of water extra everyday for every 5 grams of creatine you are taking.

Personally, I would recommend going beyond that. I say a minimum of 16 glasses per day, preferably more like 25-35. Anytime I exercise, I make sure I drink 4-6 glasses per workout and then try to drink at least one glass per hour all through the rest of the day. Then when you factor in drinking water with meals, pills you might be taking, etc., it's really not hard to hit that 25-35 range.

 

[TheExecutioner]

I dont think we should vs Creatine to protein. Protein is Essential to Body building else your muscles cannot rebuild, efficiently. I think if we were to get the best benefits from these supplements would be to use both. Not one or the other!!

 

[blue1214198203]

Personally, I would recommend going beyond that. I say a minimum of 16 glasses per day, preferably more like 25-35. Anytime I exercise, I make sure I drink 4-6 glasses per workout and then try to drink at least one glass per hour all through the rest of the day. Then when you factor in drinking water with meals, pills you might be taking, etc., it's really not hard to hit that 25-35 range.

well, i add 8 ounces for every 5 grams to my base gallon of water that i drink every day, so i get what youre saying

 

[RoidRage526]

I have been working out for about 2 years now. I tried Cell-Tech for a while and didn't really see any good gains. I took a break from suppliments and just worked out normally. Then I tried Nitro-Tech for a while and got great gains very quickly. I took Nitro-Tech for half the time I took Cell-Tech and got 5 times more gains. During the time when I took Cell-Tech my max benchpress went from 250-265 over. During the time when I took Nitro-Tech my max benchpress went from 265-300. Any ideas why I got much better gains with Nitro-Tech?

 

[bigbutnottoo]

Because Cell tech is overhyped bullshit that I found just bloated me. And NitroTech is the protein, right?

 

[TomdW]

I have just ordered some whey protein in the UK. It's Promax by Maximuscle ( www.maximuscle.co.uk ). Glad to here that it seems pretty good. I do exercise everyday, 1 day cardio, 1 day weights. Have done so for about three years. Now I am a vegitarian and don't think that I'm getting enough protein in my diet, hence the whey.

 

[iwant8inches]

This is my take on whether to take creatine or protein...Creatine works period. I've had horrible skin reactions in the past which I have finally beaten now...no acne whatsoever and clear skin again...god it feels good. (I stay away from it obviously)Anyway while creatine does work one should look into the brand of the creatine. Cell Tech I gained a good amount of weight on it and I stacked it with Nitro Tech also. After 3 months I was up 15 lbs or so. Funny thing is I never moved up in weight in terms of lifting. I had the energy to complete my workouts easily, but the one thing I should have done but didn't know about was to lift for power every few months...I was working on hypertrophy at the time apparently but quit after I broke out real bad...With creatine LOTS of water should be drunk. 12 8 oz glasses of water is sufficient IMO plus the water drunk during workouts. If you want to gain use both protein and creatine but be weary of the brand. Some creatines actually all except a few types of creatine uses simple sugars to upload into your system and that really is not the most efficient way available on the market now. And protein powders while they do work need to be used with precision. If you take too much (like say enough for a huge ass bodybuilder type guy who's been at it for years) then you'll store fat quickly and if you don't take enough then what the hell is the point. However, creatine needs to be cycled off and on like say 3 months on 1 month off...and one or two cycles won't do anything for anyone. You'll lose the weight and muscle. Most of the gains people make are srtictly in the form of muscle water, but the way creatine gives people nice gains over time is that the muscles over time adapt and allow for more retention of this muscle water. At least that's what I have always thought.

Creatine is good for energy and if used for a prolonged period will give way to bigger muscles and protein is good for building and sustaining actual muscle. Either way when you are bulking up though you aren't worrying about the way your muscles look right so I say creatine is best to use to get quicker results and is best if you can't really afford to be on both. That's just my opinion though of course.

 

[9_16]

Creatine isn't something bad. If it was, it would be illegal.
If you want to build muscle, use both.

What I read in Men's Health was that if creatine is taken with whey protein after your work-out, you get really nice results.

 

[iwant8inches]

It's not so much that it's bad...it's just that it isn't as effective when it comes in that sugar powder shit like in Cell Tech...Plus that kind of creatine needs to be cycled as well. about 3 months on 1 off otherwise you won't get results for your efforts.

 

[penguinsfan]

Some say the sugar is essential, because you need to spike your blood sugar for it to be effective. I have no idea what to think. I haven't used creatine since 2001.

 

[iwant8inches]

Hydromaxmm..haven't heard that one before as being a positive. You are talking about the glucose levels and the subsequent insulin spike right? It's good for absorption, but I don't understand how some will say that makes it effective thus efficient. Certain people will tell you it is a good thing and then fail to mention that such a spike can cause damage eventually to the pancreas. I think the E-Creatine is the best kind out there right now because more of the creatine gets into the body more efficiently. I can't stand taking supplmements though. It gets too expensive and most people don't have the time or genetics to look as good as we all wish.

 

[Anony]

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/CreatineMeta-analysis.php

Creatine is a perfectly safe substance as it is created naturally in your muscles anyway. This article has all you need to know

 

[millionman]

Why did you break out from creatine??? I've read in double blind studies done on MuscleTech and Celltech the results were good, but the interesting finding was in the materials they found andro substrates in the powders. Very interesting that you mention breaking out from using it, which would explain the breakouts, since any increase in test production in some males causes breakouts, most cases causes breakouts but on varying levels.

There is a little known company Beverly International that makes great products. From their multivitamin, protein powders, creatine select, or glutamine select. Best quality on the market. You can stay on creatine year around if you want, it doesn't really matter. The research doesn't point to a need to cycle, as it does not effect hormone secretions and does not directly correlate to anabolism.

 

[TE Jason Crob]

I only read a couple of posts, so i'm sorry if this was already mentioned

That being said.. I don't how you can put protien versus creatine.... they are both very different things

Protien obvoiulsy helps you rebuild muscle, with out enough of it, you aren't going to rebuild anything, period. So if you are serious about adding extra muscle then protein is essential. You don't need whey protein.. but if you would rather have a glass of water, with powder, than a 5oz stake, then Whey is your best bet.

Creatine- As your muscles are working their are motor units that help contract, the thing that powers the contraction is ATP. Once the ATP has caused a contraction it becomes ADP. You have a certain amount of ATP already made in your body, and you make more when you are working out, but eventually the sources will run out, and thats where creatine comes in, the creatine turns ADP back into ATP. So your muscle can use the ATP and keep on contracting. Your body already has creatine, it makes it naturally in your body, just not a whole lot. So once the creatine runs out, you start to run on lactic acid, and then you are out of energy and you can't do anymore reps.

By taking more creatine you will be able use your muslces longer, and in effect you will have a more complete workout and you will gain more eventually.

So one is not better than the other.. They do different tasks. I think that Protien is essential for people trying to build muscle, while takign creatine is more optional, and it will help your work out, but taking it and laying on your fat ass will not help you build muscle.

There are certain foods like red meat and such that will have creatine sources in them aswell, so thats an option too.

Hope that helped a bit, although, I have a feeling this was already talked about in the 3 pages I didn't read.

 

[penguinsfan]

Hydromaxmm..haven't heard that one before as being a positive. You are talking about the glucose levels and the subsequent insulin spike right? It's good for absorption, but I don't understand how some will say that makes it effective thus efficient. Certain people will tell you it is a good thing and then fail to mention that such a spike can cause damage eventually to the pancreas. I think the E-Creatine is the best kind out there right now because more of the creatine gets into the body more efficiently. I can't stand taking supplmements though. It gets too expensive and most people don't have the time or genetics to look as good as we all wish.

Well, I was looking for pure creatine a couple years ago, without the sugar, while on a carb-cutting diet. A couple nutritional stores told me that the effect would not be nearly as great without the sugar.