DLD

doublelongdaddy
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Omega-3 for Depression and Bipolar Disorder

Have we been fishing in all the wrong places for the magic bullet for depression and bipolar disorder? Have scientists been turning a blind eye to a well-known elixir that works well for other diseases and conditions? Ever since psychiatry threw Freud and his couch in the rubbish bin a couple of decades back, the profession has been oriented toward prescription drugs. Now, their focus appears to be widening.

In 1999, a Harvard University study generated a buzz throughout the bipolar community with the prospect of a natural substance that worked - fish oil. After years of being bombarded by industrial-strength pharmaceuticals and toxic salts, people with bipolar disorder and possibly depression could possibly look forward to a kinder and gentler treatment.

What We Know About Omega-3

In 1996, the Journal of the American Medical Association published a study comparing the prevalence of depression across ten nations. The survey yielded eye-opening results in showing how the lifetime and annual rates for depression vary widely from country to country (eg 1.5 in every 100 adults in Taiwan experience depression in their lifetimes while the figure is 19 for every 100 adults in Beirut). A 1998 study published in The Lancet compared this data with fish consumption, finding the higher consuming populations experienced less depression.

A 2003 study published in the American Journal of Psychiatry compared similar cross-national epidemiological data - this time involving bipolar disorder - and seafood consumption, again finding a strong correlation.

The working ingredient of fish oil is omega-3, a polyunsaturated fatty acid which is also found in certain plants such as flaxseed, pumpkin seed, and walnuts. According to Joseph Hibbeln MD of the NIH, who authored the two fish-consumption studies: "In the last century, [Western] diets have radically changed and we eat grossly fewer omega-3 fatty acids now. We also know that rates of depression have radically increased by perhaps a hundred-fold."

In a NY Times article, Dr Hibbeln noted:

Infant monkeys fed baby formula supplemented with omega-3 are stronger and more alert even at less than a week than monkeys given standard baby formula.
Depression is 60 times higher in New Zealand, where the average consumption of seafood is 40 pounds a year compared to Japan, where a person consumes nearly 150 pounds of seafood a year.
Postpartum depression is 50 times more common in countries with low levels of seafood consumption. During pregnancy, a woman’s body becomes depleted of fatty acids, which are transferred to the fetus.
Omega-3 seems to be critical to the growth and maintenance of brain cells, especially cell membranes.
When omega-3 is not available, the body uses omega-6, which produces cell membranes less able to cope with neurotransmitter traffic.
And of course the famous 1999 Harvard pilot study.
We eat far greater amounts of other damaging fatty acids. A healthy diet should provide for at least five grams daily of essential fatty acids, divided between omega-3 and omega-6.

A quick Medline search turns up several studies that show depleted omega-3 levels in the blood, cell membranes, and brains of depressed patients, suggesting that an intake of omega-3 could help reverse the process, though this has yet to be proved in large-scale clinical trials.

The Omega-3 Bipolar Disorder Study

The 1999 Harvard study that started it all was conducted on 30 patients with bipolar disorder, generally in stable condition but with a history of relapses (all had experienced bipolar episodes over the past year). All but eight of the subjects were on medications, which were left unchanged. Half the subjects were given 9.6 grams of fish oil capsules, the other half received olive oil.

Andrew Stoll MD, who conducted the study, admits the olive oil, which did not have a fishy taste, was not a perfect placebo. In one case, a person's cat actually attacked the fish oil capsules. But, as he jokingly confessed in a session at the 2000 DBSA annual conference, "you want a flawed study. That way, you get money to do another study."

The trial was supposed to go on for nine months, but was stopped after four due to its outstanding results, with the omega-3 group staying in remission significantly longer than the placebo patients. By two months, half of the placebo group had dropped out compared to two in the fish oil group. The omega-3 group actually did less well in lowering their mania scores than those taking placebos, but fared much better getting their depression down. Some patients experienced nausea, diarrhea, and fishy aftertaste, not surprising considering the high doses. Currently Dr Stoll is conducting a much larger and longer (three year) study that should conclude fairly soon. Other researchers are undertaking their own studies.

Other Omega-3 Depression and Bipolar Disorder Studies

These include:

Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) is one of the active ingredients of omega-3 fish oil. An Israeli study of 20 patients with major depression found that EPA resulted in "highly significant benefits" compared to a placebo by week three.
A 2001 study of 70 depressed patients who had not responded to other treatments were randomized into three groups taking different doses of refined EPA (one, two, or four grams a day) or a placebo. Six of the 52 patients on the EPA dropped out before 12 weeks. The one gram group did "dramatically better" than the placebo group, but surprisingly the two and four gram groups fared only modestly better than the placebo group. Much higher doses (eight to 10 gm/day) have been found effective in treating bipolar.
The higher dose paradox was borne out in a 2003 Stanley Foundation Bipolar Network study of 59 depressed bipolar patients, which found that those on 6 gm/day EPA did no better than those taking the placebo over four months, with CGI-BP depression scores dropping from 4.1 to 2.7 for EPA vs 3.6 to 2.7 for the placebo. A second study on 62 rapid-cycling patients produced similar results.
An NIH study tracking 14,541 women from their eighth week of pregnancy to eight months after giving birth found those who had no seafood - rich in omega-3 - had nearly twice the rate of depression as those who ate 10 ounces of fish daily, leading the authors to conclude: "Omega-3 fatty acids have beneficial health effects with no adverse side effects."
A Finnish/National Cancer Institute survey of 29,133 Finnish men, aged 50 to 69, has found that "there were no associations between the dietary intake of omega-3 fatty acids or fish consumption and depressed mood, major depressive episodes, or suicide."
A 2003 Chinese study of 28 patients with major depression found that those taking 9.6 grams/day of omega-3 had "a significantly decreased [Hamilton] score" after eight weeks.
More on Omega-3

The two active ingredients of omega-3 fish oil are EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid). EPA is considered to be the ingredient with the therapeutic effect, so it is important to buy omega-3 that contains more EPA than DHA. A pilot study of EPA on depressed patients produced a beneficial effect while in another study DHA proved a total dud.

Fish oil has been highly touted as a prevention for heart disease and a host of other ills, so there was a ready-made supply on the market long before Dr Stoll's study.

At a seminar at the May 2004 American Psychiatric Association’s annual meeting, Jerry Cott PhD, an FDA researcher, had this to say about omega-3.

Omega-3, he said, is a fatty acid that appears to work much like a calcium channel blocker. Not uncoincidentally, he related, Joseph Hibbeln MD of the NIH, who has led the way in omega-3 research, had been working on a calcium channel blocker study. Omega-3 competes with its sister fatty acid, omega-6, for the same enzyme chain. From there, omega-3 and omega-6 are metabolized, then stored as highly unsaturated fatty acid in tissue phospholipids.. The ideal ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 is one to one, but with modern diets favoring omega-6 at 20 to one it’s fairly obvious which fatty acid is going to win the battle of the enzyme chain.

Less may also be more. Large doses may result in oxidative stress as omega-3 is being metabolized.. This may explain why some studies using EPA (see above) failed at higher doses. Accordingly, Dr Cott recommends omega-3 be taken with vitamins C and E.

Dr Stoll also recommends taking vitamins C and E with omega-3 (1.5 to 3.5 grams of omega-3 a day, taken with food). He does not suggest using cod liver oil, as high amounts can lead to hypervitaminosis A. In buying fish oil, make sure you receive a 90 percent concentration (in the past only 30 percent was available.) Be sure it contains more EPA than DHA, and that it has no heavy metal concentrations.

Dr Stoll recommends fish oil capsules over a diet of cold water fish such as salmon or tuna, citing toxic ingredients as a reason for not going with fish. Even one can of tuna a week is too much, he asserts. Andrew Weil MD - the natural health guru recommends eating fish twice or three times a week, and cautions against capsules that may contain toxic contaminants. Both doctors agree that any fish you eat should be ocean fish rather than farm-raised fish. This is because omega-3 travels up the food chain from algae, while farm-raised fished are fed grains, which do not contain omega-3.

Dr Stoll also favors fish oil over flaxseed oil, as fish oil is more proven at this point. Dr Weil says it's okay to go with flaxseed oil, which will make vegetarians happy.

Flax

An article in the Minneapolis Star Tribune waxes eloquent on the benefits of flax, which is rich in omega-3. The Emperor Charlemagne was such a great fan of the grain that he required his subjects to eat it. Ground flax seed can be sprinkled on yogurt and a dash of flax oil can fortify a smoothie. According to the article, flax seed contains just one type of omega-3, so it is advisable to keep eating fish. Most capsules contain 1,000 mgs of flax oil, although it is not yet clear how much flax the body needs. Flax seed is also a rich source in ligands (which may prevent some hormonally-related cancers) and fibers (the oil alone does not have ligands or fiber). If you buy flax seeds, be sure they are ground or that you grind them, as the body cannot digest the seed's outer hull.

The active ingredient in flax oil is alpha-linolenic acid, which is converted to EPA and DHA in the body.

Finally

Whether as fish or flax oil, omega-3 has a blood thinning effect, but this is weaker than aspirin. Please notify your doctor before you use the two together, and stop taking if you feel any ill effects.

Finally, keep in mind that although omega-3 looks like a promising way to treat depression and bipolar disorder, there are no major clinical trials to guide us. We are barely aware of its putative efficacy, much less its optimal dosage, much less how it actually works on the brain. Accordingly, omega-3 should be considered a complement to medications rather than a replacement, and should not be taken without first consulting your doctor or psychiatrist.
 
I was about to rebut this theory until I read this:

Dr Stoll recommends fish oil capsules over a diet of cold water fish such as salmon or tuna, citing toxic ingredients as a reason for not going with fish. Even one can of tuna a week is too much, he asserts.

I know for a fact that just eating large amounts of fish or tuna will not give you enough omega to make a difference - even in mild cases of Bipolar. It makes sense that one would need the capsule.

It would be interesting to see if the fish oil would really work. I am not willing to risk my Mom flipping out to find out. They need to do some clinical research. It would be beyond awesome to have something natural to treat this illness. My mother has her blood levels checked monthly to ensure her liver among other organs are functioning properly. This is all from the Meds.

Nice article.......


doublelongdaddy said:
Omega-3 for Depression and Bipolar Disorder

Have we been fishing in all the wrong places for the magic bullet for depression and bipolar disorder? Have scientists been turning a blind eye to a well-known elixir that works well for other diseases and conditions? Ever since psychiatry threw Freud and his couch in the rubbish bin a couple of decades back, the profession has been oriented toward prescription drugs. Now, their focus appears to be widening.

In 1999, a Harvard University study generated a buzz throughout the bipolar community with the prospect of a natural substance that worked - fish oil. After years of being bombarded by industrial-strength pharmaceuticals and toxic salts, people with bipolar disorder and possibly depression could possibly look forward to a kinder and gentler treatment.

What We Know About Omega-3

In 1996, the Journal of the American Medical Association published a study comparing the prevalence of depression across ten nations. The survey yielded eye-opening results in showing how the lifetime and annual rates for depression vary widely from country to country (eg 1.5 in every 100 adults in Taiwan experience depression in their lifetimes while the figure is 19 for every 100 adults in Beirut). A 1998 study published in The Lancet compared this data with fish consumption, finding the higher consuming populations experienced less depression.

A 2003 study published in the American Journal of Psychiatry compared similar cross-national epidemiological data - this time involving bipolar disorder - and seafood consumption, again finding a strong correlation.

The working ingredient of fish oil is omega-3, a polyunsaturated fatty acid which is also found in certain plants such as flaxseed, pumpkin seed, and walnuts. According to Joseph Hibbeln MD of the NIH, who authored the two fish-consumption studies: "In the last century, [Western] diets have radically changed and we eat grossly fewer omega-3 fatty acids now. We also know that rates of depression have radically increased by perhaps a hundred-fold."

In a NY Times article, Dr Hibbeln noted:

Infant monkeys fed baby formula supplemented with omega-3 are stronger and more alert even at less than a week than monkeys given standard baby formula.
Depression is 60 times higher in New Zealand, where the average consumption of seafood is 40 pounds a year compared to Japan, where a person consumes nearly 150 pounds of seafood a year.
Postpartum depression is 50 times more common in countries with low levels of seafood consumption. During pregnancy, a woman’s body becomes depleted of fatty acids, which are transferred to the fetus.
Omega-3 seems to be critical to the growth and maintenance of brain cells, especially cell membranes.
When omega-3 is not available, the body uses omega-6, which produces cell membranes less able to cope with neurotransmitter traffic.
And of course the famous 1999 Harvard pilot study.
We eat far greater amounts of other damaging fatty acids. A healthy diet should provide for at least five grams daily of essential fatty acids, divided between omega-3 and omega-6.

A quick Medline search turns up several studies that show depleted omega-3 levels in the blood, cell membranes, and brains of depressed patients, suggesting that an intake of omega-3 could help reverse the process, though this has yet to be proved in large-scale clinical trials.

The Omega-3 Bipolar Disorder Study

The 1999 Harvard study that started it all was conducted on 30 patients with bipolar disorder, generally in stable condition but with a history of relapses (all had experienced bipolar episodes over the past year). All but eight of the subjects were on medications, which were left unchanged. Half the subjects were given 9.6 grams of fish oil capsules, the other half received olive oil.

Andrew Stoll MD, who conducted the study, admits the olive oil, which did not have a fishy taste, was not a perfect placebo. In one case, a person's cat actually attacked the fish oil capsules. But, as he jokingly confessed in a session at the 2000 DBSA annual conference, "you want a flawed study. That way, you get money to do another study."

The trial was supposed to go on for nine months, but was stopped after four due to its outstanding results, with the omega-3 group staying in remission significantly longer than the placebo patients. By two months, half of the placebo group had dropped out compared to two in the fish oil group. The omega-3 group actually did less well in lowering their mania scores than those taking placebos, but fared much better getting their depression down. Some patients experienced nausea, diarrhea, and fishy aftertaste, not surprising considering the high doses. Currently Dr Stoll is conducting a much larger and longer (three year) study that should conclude fairly soon. Other researchers are undertaking their own studies.

Other Omega-3 Depression and Bipolar Disorder Studies

These include:

Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) is one of the active ingredients of omega-3 fish oil. An Israeli study of 20 patients with major depression found that EPA resulted in "highly significant benefits" compared to a placebo by week three.
A 2001 study of 70 depressed patients who had not responded to other treatments were randomized into three groups taking different doses of refined EPA (one, two, or four grams a day) or a placebo. Six of the 52 patients on the EPA dropped out before 12 weeks. The one gram group did "dramatically better" than the placebo group, but surprisingly the two and four gram groups fared only modestly better than the placebo group. Much higher doses (eight to 10 gm/day) have been found effective in treating bipolar.
The higher dose paradox was borne out in a 2003 Stanley Foundation Bipolar Network study of 59 depressed bipolar patients, which found that those on 6 gm/day EPA did no better than those taking the placebo over four months, with CGI-BP depression scores dropping from 4.1 to 2.7 for EPA vs 3.6 to 2.7 for the placebo. A second study on 62 rapid-cycling patients produced similar results.
An NIH study tracking 14,541 women from their eighth week of pregnancy to eight months after giving birth found those who had no seafood - rich in omega-3 - had nearly twice the rate of depression as those who ate 10 ounces of fish daily, leading the authors to conclude: "Omega-3 fatty acids have beneficial health effects with no adverse side effects."
A Finnish/National Cancer Institute survey of 29,133 Finnish men, aged 50 to 69, has found that "there were no associations between the dietary intake of omega-3 fatty acids or fish consumption and depressed mood, major depressive episodes, or suicide."
A 2003 Chinese study of 28 patients with major depression found that those taking 9.6 grams/day of omega-3 had "a significantly decreased [Hamilton] score" after eight weeks.
More on Omega-3

The two active ingredients of omega-3 fish oil are EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid). EPA is considered to be the ingredient with the therapeutic effect, so it is important to buy omega-3 that contains more EPA than DHA. A pilot study of EPA on depressed patients produced a beneficial effect while in another study DHA proved a total dud.

Fish oil has been highly touted as a prevention for heart disease and a host of other ills, so there was a ready-made supply on the market long before Dr Stoll's study.

At a seminar at the May 2004 American Psychiatric Association’s annual meeting, Jerry Cott PhD, an FDA researcher, had this to say about omega-3.

Omega-3, he said, is a fatty acid that appears to work much like a calcium channel blocker. Not uncoincidentally, he related, Joseph Hibbeln MD of the NIH, who has led the way in omega-3 research, had been working on a calcium channel blocker study. Omega-3 competes with its sister fatty acid, omega-6, for the same enzyme chain. From there, omega-3 and omega-6 are metabolized, then stored as highly unsaturated fatty acid in tissue phospholipids.. The ideal ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 is one to one, but with modern diets favoring omega-6 at 20 to one it’s fairly obvious which fatty acid is going to win the battle of the enzyme chain.

Less may also be more. Large doses may result in oxidative stress as omega-3 is being metabolized.. This may explain why some studies using EPA (see above) failed at higher doses. Accordingly, Dr Cott recommends omega-3 be taken with vitamins C and E.

Dr Stoll also recommends taking vitamins C and E with omega-3 (1.5 to 3.5 grams of omega-3 a day, taken with food). He does not suggest using cod liver oil, as high amounts can lead to hypervitaminosis A. In buying fish oil, make sure you receive a 90 percent concentration (in the past only 30 percent was available.) Be sure it contains more EPA than DHA, and that it has no heavy metal concentrations.

Dr Stoll recommends fish oil capsules over a diet of cold water fish such as salmon or tuna, citing toxic ingredients as a reason for not going with fish. Even one can of tuna a week is too much, he asserts. Andrew Weil MD - the natural health guru recommends eating fish twice or three times a week, and cautions against capsules that may contain toxic contaminants. Both doctors agree that any fish you eat should be ocean fish rather than farm-raised fish. This is because omega-3 travels up the food chain from algae, while farm-raised fished are fed grains, which do not contain omega-3.

Dr Stoll also favors fish oil over flaxseed oil, as fish oil is more proven at this point. Dr Weil says it's okay to go with flaxseed oil, which will make vegetarians happy.

Flax

An article in the Minneapolis Star Tribune waxes eloquent on the benefits of flax, which is rich in omega-3. The Emperor Charlemagne was such a great fan of the grain that he required his subjects to eat it. Ground flax seed can be sprinkled on yogurt and a dash of flax oil can fortify a smoothie. According to the article, flax seed contains just one type of omega-3, so it is advisable to keep eating fish. Most capsules contain 1,000 mgs of flax oil, although it is not yet clear how much flax the body needs. Flax seed is also a rich source in ligands (which may prevent some hormonally-related cancers) and fibers (the oil alone does not have ligands or fiber). If you buy flax seeds, be sure they are ground or that you grind them, as the body cannot digest the seed's outer hull.

The active ingredient in flax oil is alpha-linolenic acid, which is converted to EPA and DHA in the body.

Finally

Whether as fish or flax oil, omega-3 has a blood thinning effect, but this is weaker than aspirin. Please notify your doctor before you use the two together, and stop taking if you feel any ill effects.

Finally, keep in mind that although omega-3 looks like a promising way to treat depression and bipolar disorder, there are no major clinical trials to guide us. We are barely aware of its putative efficacy, much less its optimal dosage, much less how it actually works on the brain. Accordingly, omega-3 should be considered a complement to medications rather than a replacement, and should not be taken without first consulting your doctor or psychiatrist.
 
Omega 3 and 6 have also been linked to having a positive effect on sufferers of Autism and also what I have > Aspergers Syndrome, I will find the PDF article on this which is a Scientific thing which explains results from trials and why it might work ect.

Anways I have been taking Omega 3, 6 and 9 for nearly 2 years now daily in 500mg dosages and I must say it has had a POSITIVE effect on my life. I started at 1g or X2 500mg capsules for the first 2 weeks to get it into the system quicker, also in the PDF document I will dig up it mentioned that in trials 1G Omega 3+6 was used daily to treat Schizophrenia patients with their other medications and it went okay.

I noticed the changes in the first few weeks and than the few months and than it leveled out and I kinda managed to stay on that level and have since built more confidence onto that, but I feel the Omega oils help my brain functions with my AS. I can Concentrate better and visualize things in my head clearer than before I was taking them. I know as someone who is qualified in Pychology that many variables will play many roles in this but I noted this down two years ago when it started, my medication at the time had been in my system for awhile and that didnt have that positive effect....to me with everything I summed up at that time, the Omega oils certainly did something and continue to help me.

Now for the Fish oil contamination part ... who knows but dont fear, just do what I did and buy Vertese http://www.vertese.com I've always bought their Omega 3+6+9 and its high quality and produced with Vegetable oils to get the Omega oils and not the Fish...same stuff just different process.

The Omega 9 is just an extra from the maker and isnt linked in these studies, just to recap its Omega 3 and 6 which is the most valued for what this thread relates to.

Heres the product I buy http://www.vertese.com/vproducts/index.cfm?ccs=73&cs=87 can get them for £4 from Tesco if you live in the UK, and that is the usual selling price in the UK ... worth it and better than the cheap shit.
 
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REDZULU2003 said:
Omega 3 and 6 have also been linked to having a positive effect on sufferers of Autism and also what I have > Aspergers Syndrome, I will find the PDF article on this which is a Scientific thing which explains results from trials and why it might work ect.

Anways I have been taking Omega 3, 6 and 9 for nearly 2 years now daily in 500mg dosages and I must say it has had a POSITIVE effect on my life. I started at 1g or X2 500mg capsules for the first 2 weeks to get it into the system quicker, also in the PDF document I will dig up it mentioned that in trials 1G Omega 3+6 was used daily to treat Schizophrenia patients with their other medications and it went okay.

I noticed the changes in the first few weeks and than the few months and than it leveled out and I kinda managed to stay on that level and have since built more confidence onto that, but I feel the Omega oils help my brain functions with my AS. I can Concentrate better and visualize things in my head clearer than before I was taking them. I know as someone who is qualified in Pychology that many variables will play many roles in this but I noted this down two years ago when it started, my medication at the time had been in my system for awhile and that didnt have that positive effect....to me with everything I summed up at that time, the Omega oils certainly did something and continue to help me.

Now for the Fish oil contamination part ... who knows but dont fear, just do what I did and buy Vertese http://www.vertese.com I've always bought their Omega 3+6+9 and its high quality and produced with Vegetable oils to get the Omega oils and not the Fish...same stuff just different process.

The Omega 9 is just an extra from the maker and isnt linked in these studies, just to recap its Omega 3 and 6 which is the most valued for what this thread relates to.

Heres the product I buy http://www.vertese.com/vproducts/index.cfm?ccs=73&cs=87 can get them for £4 from Tesco if you live in the UK, and that is the usual selling price in the UK ... worth it and better than the cheap shit.


Hey Red, check out this fish oil supplement. It is the best fish oil supplement in the world bar none IMO. http://www.equazen.com/default.aspx?pid=23

It is expensive but it is very good indeed. Read some of the info about it on that site as to why it is better than any other supplement. Cheers.
 
Thanks Red that was exactly the type of feedback I wanted. I am going to my psychiatrist this coming Monday and getting on a new regiment of meds but I am hoping to try the Omega's too as I have been reading allot about them. With my disorder I have massive mood swings from mania to depression, unfortunately I always wait to get help until I drift into depression. I am really taking advantage of this time to do some serious self-research and hopefully find some real therapies that actually work.
 
Tom, thanks for the link but I have no need to change my current supplier as I'm VERY HAPPY with my results with the brand I already take and they have a great quality of stock.

dld, sounds like a plan mate. I think it WISE to try the Omega oils, either venture into the fish or veg varieties, doesnt matter so long its a good quality and you dont need all that extra strength shit because you can make the dosage more stronger by adding extra capsules or spoons, depending on the method of dosage to make it stronger.

I would imagine that you would need to start on something like 1 or 1.5g of Omega 3+6 which is 2/3 pills of what I take. If you did that for about 3 months eachday than the stuff will start to show its effects after about 6 weeks and once you've gone past the 3 months than you would drop the dosage to 500mg which is the normal dosage for those who dont suffer from depression and dont need the stuff really for anything but take it anyways.

I've learned allot from my freind who's a Doctor based in London. He actually has been prescribing these babies more now, mainly for children with ADHD [Thin its spelt like that] and hyperactive moments, dyslexia and dyspraxia. Says it seems to help, you can only try and see if it helps for you but PLEASE ask for doctor about dosage and dont just take my word because your Doc knows your medical history and is wiser to this than me but if you wanted to do it alone like I did than experiment with 1g or 1.5g at first. I will dig that PDF I was talking about back in the thread.
 
I have such a drug addict mentality, I want results now, now, now...not in 6 weeks:D So druggy, I know. I really need to start working on investing into my psychological future and realize if I do not take the daily steps to an investment into my future the future will come and I will not be well. Thanks RED, I am going to the pharmacy today to pick up my regiment and I will keep a thorough diary here and on my BLOG.
 
Red. I'm glad you've had good results, your pills sound like their similar to the ones that I sent you the link to. I actually just went out today and bought a three month supply of Eye-q and started taking it. I'm a vegetarian so I was thinking 'Hmmm, if I'm a vegetarian then how can I justify eat loads of little fish?' but then I thougt 'Fuck it, if it's good for me then I can't be doing wrong.' LOL

I always have this way of thinking where I look really closely at the things I do and try to justify them to myself morally. I guess to a certain degree that's OK but if it's going to get in the way of my health then it's gone too far.

DLD, all the best with your Omega 3 regime. Keep it up for a few months and it'll have a big impact on your mental wellbeing. Hopefully I'll do the same. I look forward to reading your blog on your progress.

It's weird, it seems like all of a sudden MOS has gone Omega mad! :)
 
TomdW said:
It's weird, it seems like all of a sudden MOS has gone Omega mad! :)


Definitely but this is a good sign of something that may work. If we can do for mental health what we have accomplished in urology it will be incredible.
 
Like I said it worked for me, but dont expect a wonder drug .... it'll take time and will probably vary its effects from person to person.
 
REDZULU2003 said:
Now for the Fish oil contamination part ... who knows but dont fear, just do what I did and buy Vertese http://www.vertese.com I've always bought their Omega 3+6+9 and its high quality and produced with Vegetable oils to get the Omega oils and not the Fish...same stuff just different process.

The Omega 9 is just an extra from the maker and isnt linked in these studies, just to recap its Omega 3 and 6 which is the most valued for what this thread relates to.

Heres the product I buy http://www.vertese.com/vproducts/index.cfm?ccs=73&cs=87 can get them for £4 from Tesco if you live in the UK, and that is the usual selling price in the UK ... worth it and better than the cheap shit.

Hi Red,

I have read many studies and most of the time, it was said that vegetable omega-3 (ALA) to the fish oil omega-3 (EPA) in order to be usefull. And the ratio you need is 10 g (veggies) in order to make 1 g of fish omega-3. (I'm not sure of that number but it's near that)

There are 3 kind of omega-3, 2 fish and 1 veggie. maybe you might wanna try fish oil. Most online companies will tell on their website if their supplements contains mercury anyways.

And I also read you can take up to 3 g per day, even if more of that would not harm you. I personally take 2 g per day, so that makes 4 capsules for me. Definately helped me.

okay last thing, if your diet contains a big ammount of omega 6, then you should slack on this and only use omega-3 supplement. Same case if you allready eat a big ammount of omega 3 then you should supplement on omega 6. Too much omega 6 means less omega 3 absorption. same for too much omega 3. But then in North american diet, there are WAY too much omega 6 going on, so I take omega 3 only supplements.

Now you might want to ask for references, but I'll find em sooner than later... gotta go :)
 
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Best source of info on healthy vs. toxic fats can be found here:

http://healingmatters.com/fats.htm

The American diet based on Soy and other vegetable oils is the leading cause of Syndrome X, which is manifested in various ways: Heart Disease, Diabetes, High Cholesterol, Erectile Dysfunction, and Impotence.

Other nasty info on vegetable oils can be found at

http://coconutoil.com

Rules to live by:

Do
1. Take 3 x 1000mg Flax or Fish Oil gel-caps at every meal, or substitute with 1 tablespoons liquid flax or fish oil. Liquid must be refrigerated or it's probably rancid.
2. Cook with butter, coconut, or palm oil. These are median chain fatty acids that do not transform into toxic isomers as readily as the vegetable oils when heated. Be careful to never let your oil begin smoking, as this is a sign that the carbon chains are beginning to break up (transform).

Don't
1. Never eat anything with Trans-fats. NEVER. Trans Fats have been heated to high temperatures and then artificially saturated. They are toxic fats that are used by the body when it can't find any healthy fats like Omega-3. The problem is that when Trans-Fats are incorporated into your cell's membrane, the membrane becomes sticky and inelastic. Your cells will have a harder time transferring nutrients across the membrane. The more trans fats you eat, the worse it gets.
2. Never eat oils that come in a clear, unrefrigerated, plastic or glass bottle, except Olive Oil
3. Don't eat Canola. This oil comes from Rape Seed and was genetically modified in Canada to reduce toxic levels of Euricic Acid. This acid has been known for centuries to be toxic to humans. Need more info, google the words Canola Danger.
4. Don't let your oil smoke when cooking. The smoke is a sign that you're creating trans fat.

Good reading: Dr. Perricone has a good book on the topic, The Perricone Weight Loss Diet.

For the chemistry geeks out there, here is a good website that explains the difference between polyunsatured, monounsaturated, and saturated fats:
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/F/Fats.html#trilinolein
http://faculty.clintoncc.suny.edu/f...01/Bio 101 Lectures/Biochemistry/biochemi.htm

Bottom line. Good fats lead to healthy cells and stiff, throbbing, hard-ons. Bad fats lead to syndrome X, which will manifest as one of the major diseases, worst of all is erectile dysfunction or impotence.
 
Just experiment and see what works best for you. The Vertese veggie omega worked great for me so I aint going to change to the fish.
 
REDZULU2003 said:
Just experiment and see what works best for you. The Vertese veggie omega worked great for me so I aint going to change to the fish.

Good for you man :) I was just reporting what I've read. For those of you are still wondering... Omega-3 really are worth a try. you will see results after less than 1 month.
 
Results can vary from between 4-8 weeks. Like I've said previous however, dont expect this to be some miracle wonder drug which makes you all feel reslly happy and different because it wont. It'll help you ... but you must also help yourself to get where you want to be.
 
Also for those who may be confused with all of this.

ALA which is Alpha-Linolenic Acid and is highly concentrated in certain plant oils such as flaxseed oil and to a lesser extent, canola, soy, perilla, and walnut oils. ALA is also found in wild plants such as purslane.

EPA eicosapentaenoic acid and DHA docosahexaenoic acid are found primarily in fish

These are all Omega 3 fatty acids and will be noted on the side of your Omega 3 packet.

I will say that, Once ingested, the body converts ALA to EPA and DHA, the two types of omega-3 fatty acids more readily used by the body so it doesnt really matter if you take the veggie stuff or the fish stuff because your body will convert it into what it needs.

Why are Omega 3 important with depression? well the omega-3 fatty acids are important components of nerve cell membranes. They help nerve cells communicate with each other, which is an essential step in maintaining good mental health


People with either diabetes or schizophrenia may lack the ability to convert ALA to EPA and DHA, the forms more readily used in the body. Therefore, people with these conditions should obtain their omega-3 fatty acids from dietary sources rich in EPA and DHA

Lastly, If you are currently being treated with any of the following medications, you should not use ALA without first talking to your healthcare provider.

Blood-thinning Medications
Omega-3 fatty acids may increase the blood-thinning effects of warfarin, aspirin, or other blood-thinning medications. While the combination of aspirin and omega-3 fatty acids may actually be helpful under certain circumstances (such as heart disease), they should only be taken together under the guidance and supervision of your healthcare provider.

Cholesterol-lowering Medications
Following certain nutritional guidelines, including increasing the amount of omega-3 fatty acids in your diet and reducing the omega-6 to omega-3 ratio, may allow a group of cholesterol lowering medications known as "statins" (such as atorvastatin, lovastatin, and simvastatin) to work more effectively.

Cyclosporine
Taking omega-3 fatty acids during cyclosporine therapy may reduce toxic side effects (such as high blood pressure and kidney damage) associated with this medication in transplant patients.

Nonsteroidal Anti-inflammatory Drugs (NSAIDs)
In an animal study, treatment with omega-3 fatty acids reduced the risk of ulcers from nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). More research is needed to evaluate whether omega-3 fatty acids would have the same effects in people


Hope that above research by me clears some things up and helped educate.
 
From my research I think it is unwise to consume ALA. I find no scientific proof that ALA becomes EPA or DHA. They are all three Omega 3 acids but work quite differently in the body. ALA ---> EPA is simply false. It's like trying to get your dick bigger by wearing tighty whities all day and never Penis Enlargementing!
 
There was a program over here in UK on BBC I think about Bi-Polar presented by Stephen Fry who also suffers (like many great actors). He spoke to a doctor who had VV bad Bi-polar and is now still in practice and self medicates with diet and fish oil alone! She says this is the key as we have all been put on a junk processed diet (even healthy food is grown with chemicals etc unless organic).
Hope this helps your opinions of this stuff. It certainly regulates my sons behaviour and my wife is starting it for her depression, so we'll see.
 
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