Interesting Article for Intact and Restoring Males

There is plenty of information and study on sex, quite a bit actually, and one can draw some very certain conclusions from it. In the article listed above, the sexual theorizing is junk commentary with no scientific fact to back it up, just a certain manner of presentation. People capable of critically interpreting information (i.e. don't believe everything they read) can easily see through the subterfuge.

Wow, I used to dread debating you, swank, but your skills are pathetically one-note. All you ever do is discredit the author/s and use suggestive language. All opinion. No proof. Furthermore, you try to win the reader to your side by suggesting that they are smarter if they agree with your viewpoint. Thank you. I am assimilating. It is really going to help me in the future. I'm being serious, too, BTW.

sephin said:

What a contradiction. Less sensitive penises due to circumcision have a more likely chance to get overly excited and pre-ejac, while hyper-sensitive uncut penises with extra/specific/offthewall pleasurable feelings are less likely to get overexcited and pre-ejac?

Considering the logic and the simple anecdotal evidence of every uncut person I talked to...

It is...

FULL OF SHIT!

Like the rest of the article...

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It's not a matter of pleasure but of finer nerve sensitivity. If you truly understood, it wouldn't seem so crazy. Would you be able to control your fingers if they were less sensitive or more sensitive? Can you read brail with gloves on? How well do you speak when you've gotten a shot from the dentist to numb your mouth?

Logic or wishful thinking, believe what you want.

It IS overblown, though, I will admit. Even with a more sensitive glans, I have gotten there a little too soon a couple times. We talking tendencies, not black and white.

It seems you state articles, wait for the namecalling to come on from its complete BS 'facts', then you give a little leeway by agreeing somewhat with the opposition to calm down the yelling, so the article still remains and people read it, but dont see the bitter fighting assuming people now accept it. Is that your strategy?

You are not giving logical examples. I can just as easily say... that numbed too, when poked with a knife will you be more likely to blurt out and yell when its numb or when it is more sensitive?

See I can give you examples that contradict yours, so lets stick to the logic and not the biased stories...

sensitiviy - "capable of being stimulated or excited by external agents"
- Merriam Webster at http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=sensitive

Less sensitive less capable of being stimulated and excited, which is easy to logically conclude that the less sensitive the less capable to be overly excited... aka pre-ejac.

What kind of example is that? :D Yes, I'd rather have a less sensitive peter if someone cut it off or poked it with a knife or something! Has nothing to do with control, tho.

Hmm, so you see Kong other men see a little folly with your case as well, it doesn't mean anybody is after you personally.

That being said, I though we were trying to keep this stuff onto the issues around FR and circumcision? I'm flattered that you dread debating me since you cal me an idiot with my head in the sand all the time, but how would you react of I called your arguments "pathetic?"

On one thread you're insisting that no posts contain personal commentary, on another you come off the cuff and insult others. Be a man and hold yourself to your own standards.

Has nothing to do with control, tho.

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So? We arent talking about controlling our ejac, that is mental/learned, physically, cut men are prone to not get off for a while and uncut men are prone to pre-ejac. That is the physical logic of it all.

You are falling down swinging your fists in this debate, and all I can say is it doesnt give you a final chance to win this, it makes the TKO look pathetic...

Sorry. I couldn't understand that. I stated my case. Believe it or not.

kong1971 said:

I thought the frenelum was only a bit of skin? :D Everyone got all up in arms when I said it was the most sensitive part. So, is it okay now to say that it is an analog of the female clitoris, or is that still too much? Is it the most sensitive or not?

Also, are you saying that your glans is insensitive unless the foreskin is actually covering it, because most intact men expose their glans when erect... I'm a little bit confused here...

PS-- I do still have some fren remnants. They run up and down the inner mucosal area on the bottom side of my shaft, from the glans to the c-scar. It is not intact. In fact, it was butchered pretty bad, but there are still some very sensitive spots, and, of course, FR is expanding that tissue, too. When I jack off, those spots rub the glans and really feel good.

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The Frenelum and the glands go hand in hand, they are the best team togheter. The frenelum makes the glands stretch and move forward and backward, creating an very sensitive motion.

If I leave my foreskin not covering the glands, It looses more then 40% of its sensitivity. Doe it is restored when the foreskin is back on there again.

So they are both sensitively a superb team.

If you don't have a frenelum, you would last longer due to the lacking of maximum sensitivity. So I'm not saying anything against foreskin, because then I would talk shit about myself.

So If you guys get a fully restored foreskin, you will enjoy sex much more.
If you have a frenelum, it will be the bomb. If not, then you cant be sad for that, because then you would last longer.

If I put on lube and pull my hand up and down my glands, I tell you its intense because it tickles like hell. So sensitiv is the combo.

And don't forget a part of a frenelum is better then nothing at all, and a little foreskin is better then being naked in the winter.

I shure hope you get that foreskin, it will rock, believe me!

Wet Jelq's is the holy grail for that, if you grasp as near base as possbile.

I've been involved with FR since about 7 years ago when I first became aware of it. Many men say that they gained much more control over their ejaculation as they gained more skin. Many have said that their female partners found sex improved with additional skin.

None have claimed that they had less ejaculatory control since starting FR. None have said their partner enjoyed sex less after they gained some skin.

This is not proof or even evidence due to the nature of the info, but I've seen enough to convince me that there are sexual benefits for men and women to FR or being intact.

The argument that circumcised is better sexually is almost always this: "More friction equals more/better feeling. Duh!"

Two things I like to keep in mind with this:

Ejaculation control cannot be reasonably to either having or not having a foreskin. It is an individual thing with every male. If either having a foreskin or being cut gave you better control and it was provable in any way, it would be rather clear. It's far too subjective for anybody to say that somebody else will get a benefit from it.

As far as women enjoying it - this also an individual thing. My suggestion is to talk to women yourself or read what they have to say on women's forums if you're not comfortable doing that. Don't expect it to universally please women more. Some women may love it, some may not care, some may nto like it better. It is my personal opinion that most women are indifferent to the presence of a foreskin so far as penetrative intercourse is concerned, and it is also important to always keep in mind that all women are very different. There is no skeleton key, gliding or otherwise, to female sexual pleasure.

So far as feeling better - this also may be the case. I have never seen anybody argue that a foreskin doesn't help re-senstize the glans to some extent. A thing that I think is often a contradiction made by some proponents of FR however, is that despite having regrown a foreskin, it is not the same physical structure as the orginial prepuce. Many here have made arguments that the foreskin contains special nerve and muscular structures, and indeed there does seem to be some clinical evidence of this. When restoring you will not be regaining these unique characteristics of a foreskin, but stretching skin from the shaft. The new foreskin will have the same characteristics as sensatiion wise as the skin from which it was stretched. In this sense a restoring man should not reasonably expect to have the same sensations and feelings as that of an originally intact man. This may seem intuitive to some, but I feel it is often made unclear by those discussing the benefits of FR.

Swank - Keep trying to downplay it all...

G_Dogg - More or less sensitivity is not a given variable in ejaculatory control. I've actually found that the increased sensitivity has help me control it more. Now the orgasm isn't so much of a highlight. Its still great, but the feeling with the extra sensitivity is worth having as long as possible. If that weren't true, I still can't see how it is worth lasting longer if it doesn't feel as good. Not an even deal in my book. I know you didn't mean as cut and dry as that. (no pun intended, but still...) Its mostly mental, and in my mind the orgasm is worth push back.

Raffiki, I am flattered that about 90% of your posts are reactionary criticisms to my opinions. I must have caught your interest.

Your commentary here very much supports my basic point that all men's experiences and preferences are different.

Swank said:

Raffiki, I am flattered that about 90% of your posts are reactionary criticisms to my opinions. I must have caught your interest.

Your commentary here very much supports my basic point that all men's experiences and preferences are different.

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Well they used to be about FR until all the distraction...

Not so fast on the support thing! I believe the majority of circ men that give FR an honest chance have very similar experiences. Preferences ARE different, but I believe that is because some choose to NOT give it an honest try.

I think raffiki brings up an interesting and valid point. With FR, you get a more sensitive and pleasurable experience throughout the entire act. It does certainly make orgasm less important. That might be the key here. I don't want to make any kind of generalized statements that we will argue for days over, so I'll leave it at that. I personally don't rush to the finish line as much anymore, cause I'm enjoying the race!

ghost, I appreciate your input here. It's awesome to hear from intact men. We restorers will never have everything you have, but it's something to look forward to.

swank, you really do downplay the experience. You should try it for awhile. I think you want to but have reservations. You seem awfully interested in it. I don't want to argue with you about it, tho. Hopefully, you will do it and then you will know what we are talking about.

Yes, not everything can be regrown to exact, perfect, natural condition, but alot can be regained. It is different from person to person. Skin expansion even rebuilds some of the damaged structures to a slight degree. My fren was removed, but some of it is present on the underside of the shaft, and skin expansion has kicked in there, too. It is very sensitive, and if I pull my skin up and out, you can see some of the "tongue" structure between the glans and the new skin. Definite improvement. I can post pics of this, but I doubt if it will do anything but open me up to more criticism.

Finally, you do persist in this belief that FR is stretching shaft skin, which it is not. It is growth and regeneration, through tension-induced cellular mitosis, "skin expansion". There is a difference. If you have some fren tissue left and expand it, you get more fren tissue. If you have some of the specialized nerve endings left in the shaft tissue from the remains of the ridged band, and tense it, cellular mitosis creates more ridged band tissue and nerves. You have to learn the actual anatomy, figure out what you got, and work with it to get what you want.

I shall have to do more in-depth research on skin expansion before I respond to this, but it iy intitial judgement that the skin you are expanding is in fact the shaft skin. The nerves are what they are, all this talk of regenerating damaged nerve symplexes and such is something that I will want to be clear on before I say something one way or the other, but my immediate knowledge of anatomy leads me to believe it's one of those scientifically questionable and subjective statements.

Another thing I considered as I read that last post was how the sensations are actually changing through the process once the glans has become more sensitive from being covered by taping all day. Since it is coverd by force even if you don't have normal coverage, I'm unclear as to how the experience changes so much as the shaft skin is slowly elongated into a substitute foreskin. I understand the sensation might be different at first, but the comments on intensity of orgasms, more frequent erections, things of that nature, seem to lack anatomical or physiological reasoning to me thus far.

But, as I said, I will look into it before making any decisive statements. Those are just things I intuitively see as not being substantiated by biological fact and likely just anecdotal.

Also, I think there needs to be a distinction between "down playing" something and not necessarily believing it just because people say so. It's an implied false dichotomy and doesn't make much sense.

Just research it, swank. It's very real. If you are interested in actually trying it so you have a real, personal knowledge of what you are talking about instead of just opining, let me know and I will try to help out however I can. I wouldn't offer my help to someone I have had so much personal friction with if I didn't believe in it! Restoration is a complex thing, because there is an element of synergy to the various benefits (DKed glans, skin mobility, new nerves, masturbation with skin, greater comfort during sex) that you wouldn't understand unless you experienced it... that make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. Like I have said before, unless you are a restorer, you wouldn't understand how just growing some skin could make you have stronger orgasms, but it is so much more than that!

While I agree that there may be synergy going on, I think you fail to factor out that mental interplay, expectations, and psychosomatic benefits can very much become a part of that. The mind is a very powerful thing.

That being said, I simply meant to indicate that I'm going to look into this nerve and tissue regrowth stuff before making any decisive statements against it. Like I said, everything I know about human anatomy and biology says that those claims are on shaky ground, but I prefer to be sure before saying so.

I believe skin expansion is a real thing (how the hell else would we grow new skin when our bodies get bigger, a la body building or just plain old getting fat), but I still fail to see where new skin is being generated except the shaft skin being tugged. In the case of FR, tension is producing the new skin. The tension is on the shaft skin. This skin, when made to resemble a foreskin, will still have the characteristics of the original shaft skin.

We'll see what I can research and find out.

This is what I was getting at in my other post. Does the skin stretch, or is being regenerated? Don't know, but it doesn't really matter. Does the tunica or ligs simply stretch, or do the cells start reproducing? Don't know, but I have a bigger penis either way.

FR will take a leap of faith, just like Penis Enlargement. Alot of us think it is worth it. Thats why we share the benefits we have experienced, so others can decide if it is worth it to them. No one can prove we are wrong, just as we cannot prove we are right. When that is accepted, this place will be 10x better.

Skin is most certainly growing or being generated in FR. The question of what skin that is, and what types of nerves are involved is the contendable point.

I doubt very much if we are regenerating ass skin...:D I would say penis skin, and if you do it correctly, whatever remnants of foreskin you have left, along with any remaining frenelum, ridged band and musocal tissue you can find and tense.