Confused

Swank said:
Fine by me, whenever you have time. I'll keep looking for some information myself.
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LOL, don't hold your breath. Unless of course you want some block quotes from a radical anti circumcision website with fake doctor names and fake titles for fake studies that never ACTAULLY occured.
 
Ha, well, we'll see what the deal is here. I personally couldn't find any info on this, though I did have a look at some restorer's journals with pictures and they didn't seem to have any less of that stuff than I do, and one guy grew a pretty damn full-blown looking foreskin in about 18 months. He didn't mention any trouble.

The basic human physiology behind a lot of these claims just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I get that there can be increased sensitivity in the glans if it's covered all the time. The rest of it, there just isn't much conclusive evidence that I can see. If men were getting these size increases, turbo-charged orgasms, enlarged penises, rave reviews from women (6/7 won't take anything but foreskin once they've had one!), they sure aren't saying so.

If I were to spend years taping up my penis every single day to regrow that thing I think I'd have to get myself to believe it was going to remodel my sexuality and overall happiness in order to get through it. That being said, it seems there are plenty of guys who restore for philosophical or other reasons than sexual and size complaints like Kong has. A lot of them just seem to want to be returned to a natural state. In general Kong's interests seem way more focused on the sexual side than a lot of what I've seen, but I guess that would just be reflective of his reasons for wanting to do it.

Unfortunately, even on the more literate and presentable FR sites I see, the whole vicitmization and propaganda culture from the anti-circ people is usually around as well, and they in turn usually have some info on FR. It's all related out in internet land.

In this example I think Kong's imagination got a running start on the rest of his brain again, but as always I'm curious to see. The man is on a "crusade" and has managed to convert "the sexless bump between" his legs into something a world apart in terms of pleasure and performance by seemingly loosening the skin on the shaft a little bit, so maybe he can come through with something reasonable.
 
The increased size claim is proven bullshit. America is one of the only places on Earth where a majority of men are cut and I have read many studies about average penis size and the results are the saem no matter where they are conducted. Occasionally, the US actually comes out above the world average by a fraction of an inch.

If circumcision cost any significant amount of men some of their penis size due to this "trapped penis" hog wash, then it would only be possible for us to be on par with the rest of the world size wise if we had a genenic potential for penis size that far outreached every other country in the world.

Kong, I have brought this point up before and you have ALWAYS thrown up some kind of smoke screen and dodged the question. If circumcision can cost a significant amount of men a significant amount of penis size, then how come America doesn't have a smaller average penis size than the rest of the world. The only answer even remotely possible is that most of us were genenically destined to have 7-8 inch cocks but due to the circumcisions most of us were shortchanged. This, to me, makes no sense that we would somehow have the entire rest of the world beat in penis size (were we not to cut). Kong, I challenge you to justify this argument I have presented without throwing up any type of smoke screen and/or dodging the question.
 
I doubt that will ever get resolved skepdick. I tried mightily to get him to address that point once and he just kept saying "well there's no accurate size surveys or something." The example woul dhave ot hold over the entire Arab and Jewish population as well. Also by the time we were done talking about it, he had diluted his claim from "it robs men of 2 inches of length" to "certain bad procedures may have taken away as much as 10% of overall length" or something to that effect. Either way he censored himself when he realized that it sounded absurd, I think. Can't speak for the guy.

Anyway he does still say it may increas men's size, which is interesting because on FR FAQ's that I looked at when trying to find information on this mucuscal tissue issue, they often brought up the size increase and said that some men claimed some it but there wan no proof or understanding of how it works, and warned men not to expect. In this case I think Kong has bought into something that just a small amount of FR guys believe in. He's not preaching it as goespel from the mountaintop anymore though, so it doesn't bother me as much.

He does still feel that the little amount of lose skin he has worked up has grown his penis by something to the tune of 1.5" unless I'm mistaken, which doesn't really add up because that's clearly way more skin than he's added. Sometimes he sounds like he says it's from just FR, sometimes he says it's a combination of FR and Penis Enlargement, like other things it has fluctuated all over the place from what I've read so it's hard to tell. Just so long as he's not promising guys extra inches for getting into his hobby I'm not so into arguing it.

I have always been curious about the nationality thing though . . . should start a poll asking if men think it can boost your size, and if so, in length, girth, both, and how much. Then ask if Americans, Africans, and Arabs, and Jews are statistically bigger than the rest of the world . . .
 
Elated to discuss things in a mature fashion Kong, thanks for coming around.

I'm not sure how that addresses the questions about mucuscal tissue and such.

Another question I have though, is do you have any statistics on the annual incidence of trapped penis? To put it another way, it seems that the condition is more or less diagnosed by scarring and deformity and then corrected by surgery. After googling it a few times and reading up, it seems most of these cases are corrected surgically in childhood. They don't particularly seem to mention "tight" circumcisions so much as poor healing, formation of scar tissue, botched operations, ect. Maybe I'm looking at different sources, but I didn't hear 'tight' or 'loose' circumcision indicated. I also saw no stats for what percentage this occurrs in, but there must be some out there. Do you have them?

Your theory that there is a different, adult form of this condition would seem to be the diagnosis of an entirely unknown medical phoenomenon, so far as I have seen. This may just mean I haven't seen the right thing, but I couldn't find it. The only cases I could find online were children who suffered from obvious physical deformity that warranted surgery. I couldn't find adult trapped penis mentioned on any of the studies I looked at, and most of these were hosted on anti-circ sites or authored by opponents of the procedure. Once again, have you seen any of these cases around or is this your idea or one proposed by somebody else but not actually verified?

Other than that I'm very pleased with your candid proclimation that FR (or really any stretching of the skin, FR would be totally unecessary by your definition it seems) may offer size increase to those with a very specific condition that you suspect may be at play, and not something the average man interested in FR is likely to experience.
 
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Other than that I'm very pleased with your candid proclimation that FR (or really any stretching of the skin, FR would be totally unecessary by your definition it seems) may offer size increase to those with a very specific condition that you suspect may be at play, and not something the average man interested in FR is likely to experience.

Something I've said all along. It's called skin expansion. I have always said that some men might have luck getting faster gains doing skin expansion, even if they do not want to go the whole FR route, because of mild forms of trapped penis caused by circumcision.

I'm not going to bother replying to the rest of your post because, frankly, it's just more typical "swank manuevers": personal aspersions, confusing or impossible to prove questions, and you casting doubt on the credibility of anti-circ websites and information (all of which, by the way, is no more dubious or fishy than the rhetoric spouted by your own pro-circ sources). Please try to keep any questions or comments non-personal.
 
I think it is logical to assume that there may be milder cases of trapped penis that persist untreated into adulthood. By milder, I theorize, an adult male having perhaps 10 to 20 percent of total length trapped. By expanding the skin with Penis Enlargement or FR techniques, this may account for some of these 1" or slightly more quick gains that some of us see here at [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words]-- with these "fast gainers" doing no more than anyone else...and restorers who do no Penis Enlargement at all. You don't really think that this trapped penis complication is ONLY confined to severe childhood cases that MUST ALWAYS be treated with surgery, do you?
 
Well, I'm afraid that so far I do, because those are the only cases I've been able to find.

Trapped penis seems to be deformity from the circumcision resulting in clear physical indicators of the condition and associated problems From the descriptions of the condition I find it difficult to believe that parents would leave it untreated or that a man could go his entire life wihout noticing the problem. If it were something that trapped up to 20% (this could often be an inch) of the penis, I would surmise that there would not only be pain, but clear evidence and deformity of the penis.

I found no cases of adult trapped penis discussed online, even on FR and anti-circ sites. Just because you feel it is possible, does not mean it is logical to say that it is likely. Just because it has not been proven to not exist, it does not automatically follow that it does. These are both classic logical fallacies of weak induction. A restated example would be: UFOs could pssibly visiting earth, therefore they must definately be visiting earth. And the second: We have not proved that UFOs are not visiting earth, so they must be visiting earth. Neither is a logical argument. Again, perhaps I do not have your sources and so that is what I am asking about.

I simply asked if this was your opinion (i.e. adult trapped penis is a condition that you have surmised exists, or that there are verified cases of), and if it is a known condition, to please at least link or reference some sources. Your theory could be applicable if in fact there is any evidence that there are cases of men having 'trapped' penis as adults, but I have thus far not been able to find much information on the condition.

If it were something fairly widespread or even occurring at reportable levels, I feel the condition would have been made note of or diagnosed somewhere, especially considering the amount of information regarding circumcision that is on the web. My other question about trapped penis is if there are a significant percentage of men who are missing up to an inch of penile length and have it trapped in their body cavity by bad circumcisions as adults, why has no surgical procedure or study or mention of this phoenomena been created by doctors? Surely if there were thousands of men suffering from this condition, a simple surgery to loosen circumcision would be in demand and lucrative for doctors to develop. Again, perhaps I just don't have your sources.

So, my question is: do you have any sources for this (FR or anti-circ included), and if so would you please link them. I have been unable to find anything by google searching.

I would also still like to know if you have any statistics about the annual number or percentage of circumcisions that result in trapped penis, adult or infantile. I have also not been able to find any figures.

In your case, you would seem to be saying that you suffered from it and had over an inch trapped inside your body that was released by skin expansion of the shaft. If your own example is what you base the theory of adult trapped penis on, what do you feel are the specific conditions that create it? How are these different from the juvenile form where the condition is obvious and deformity is present? Would you say any tight circumcision is trapping penis inside the body cavity? How tight must this circumcision be, in your estimation, to prevent the pressure of the trapped penis from stretching the skin on its own during erection and growth during puberty. Any other information you have as to the mechanics of adult trapped penis would be welcome for purposes of explanation.

I would also appreciate it if you could explain or show a source for the 'lack of mucuscal tissue makes FR impossible or difficult' issue that you brought up before. This is another claim that directly involves anatomy and functionality that I would like to see some information on. If the sources are from FR sites that's absolutely fine (I have no problem with the majority of FR sites I have seen, except for some of their anti-circ claims, but their information on FR in general has been highly reasonable from what I have read).

None of this is in any way a personal commentary on Kong, they are legitamite questions about claims made by Kong concerning FR and circumcision. I am simply asking for further explanation and information and would appreciate a reasonable answer that addresses my questions in a clear manner.
 
Hmm...just say I don't believe it. Its more concise and less confusing. I think the information I presented is clearly stated and logical. "Mild forms of circ-induced trapped penis, persisting into adulthood, account for some of our 'fast gainers' and also for restorers getting length gains without Penis Enlargement." What's so farfetched about that? You want me to prove it? I challenge you to DISprove it! Respectfully, K
 
Well, like I said, just because it can't be disproved (especially if we don't even know whether or not it exists), it does not follow that it must be real.

Is adult trapped penis a recognized condition, or have you diagnosed it yourself? I also asked a number of questions about the physiology and conditions required for adult trapped penis as well as if you have any statistics on the matter. Please respond to those parts of the post as well.

If you have some info on adult trapped penis, or know of any place where it can be read about, personal reports, anything really, please post some links.

The physiology of the juvenile cases is clear, and it seems that the condition comes with obvious physical indicators and requires surgical correction. Yout contention is that there is a latent form with no physical indicators whatsoever that affects men often enough that there is a decent chance they'll see fast gains of up to an inch.

I want to know if this is a condition you have just theorized, or if there is information about it elsewhere, that is all. I have only ever found information regarding juvenile cases where there was definate deformity to the penis that is recognized as the result of a botched or badly healing circumcision. I have seen no reportages of adult cases or milder forms with no deformity or physical symptoms.

Also you have still not addressed the questions about the mucuscal tissue. Please answer the questions directly. I would appreciate a topical answer when I take the time to ask very clear and specific questions about a specific claim you have made. Your post addressed none of my points, only restated that you feel it is logical.
 
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Kong, you've said that you will debate anything FR and circumcision related. These are topical and non-personal questions about claims you have made, anybody can see that.

I am beggining to harbor the opinion that you simply do not have an answer for the questions and are copping out.

This happened before when you refused to link your sources for whatever reason. I have asked oyu specific questions about things you have claimed about FR and circumcision and given you an opportunity to explain what you have claimed. What is the problem here?

I have reserached on the internet attempting to find any information that supports your claims on the tissue and trapped penis questions, and so far have found nothing. This either means that you have some sources I don't, or you have diagnosed these conditions yourself.

If these are not things that you have come up with yourself, then post some links to info about them.
 
Well I shall take that as a clear indicator that there is in fact no information online regarding 'adult trapped penis' or 'lack of mucoscal tissue making FR difficult or impossible.'

That would also suggest that you have fabricated two penile conditions and presented them as a fairly standard diagnosis.

In this case I would conject that the "FR can enlarge your penis because some men have a trapped length from circumcision that has gone undiagnosed" theory to be rather unlikely of holding any water. The same goes for the statement "some men have a lack of mucoscal tissue that makes it difficult or impossible to restore."

Kong, all that you need to do to disprove this is link some information. I am still of the mind to think that perhaps I just have not come across anything and you may have found something in your own research that supports those claims.

If not, the above statements stand.

I do not believe that citing sources or explaining the origin for specific claims you make about supposed medical conditions and the process of FR is 'getting on a merry-go-round.' People are accountable for their words.

It is always an option not to answer, but in that scenario I am forced to posit that you most likely invented both of those scenarios and are attempting to dodge the issue. It is difficult for me to consider anything you say reliable when you are possibly intermixing pure fiction with your statements.
 
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