- Joined
- Sep 12, 2003
- Messages
- 668
Hello again. I want my motives for posting on FR and circumcision related topics in this forum to be clear. The following is an extended quote from the author of a website I have linked that contains various articles and incormation about circumcision. He explains at length why he cares about the topic and why he has taken an active stance and demonstrated his opinons. I have done this as well, elsewhere in threads on this forum.
Though this man's experiences are certainly different from my own, we hold nearly identical views on circumcision (this quote does not address FR in any way) and we are coming from the same place philosophically. Please have a read.
*****************************************************************
Why I Have An Interest In this Issue
I developed this page because I felt there was a need to help balance some of the negative information (at times fanatical) presented by the anti-circ groups and individuals on the Internet.
I believe parents and individuals should have access to information on both sides of every issue, since the anti's only express their own biased views I realized I should do something about it.
Another factor which helped motivate me to create this page is because of knowledge I have of these anti-circ groups. I started developing this knowledge at a young age (17 years old), after writing to a group who was advertising in a magazine as an unbiased information source on this topic.
Curiosity about the circumcision issue can be overwhelming for many boys, circumcised or not. I was no exception. Ever since I was 15 years old I wanted to find answers to some of the questions I had, Who was circumcised? Why was it done? How was it done? etc.
Since it was a difficult issue to talk to parents about (just as all sexual related issues are) and since most of them never make a point to talk about it, I was left with no choice but to go searching for this information on my own. I searched every medical and sexual related book or magazine I could get my hands on, I learned a lot about this issue but still did not find all the answers I was looking for.
It wasn't until I was 17 did I come across a magazine article that spoke of an organization who claimed to be a leading information source on this topic. Eagerly I wrote to this group asking some questions, telling them my age, circumcision status and that I was happy about being circumcised.
Within a few weeks I received a letter and a large package of anti-circ information written by a number of anti-circ individuals. The letter or articles didn't contain any answers to my qestions but rather comments of how "damaged" I was supposed to be because I was circumcised at birth.
The letter basically tried to convince me I was ruined sexually, physically, psychologically and that I would probably develop uncontrollable urges to commit suicide later in life, more chances of becoming homosexual and more prone to becoming a rapist, pervert etc. They also tried to convince me that I should sue my parents and doctor for allowing me to be "mutilated" and "tortured", and I should consider getting a foreskin reconstruction if I wanted to be sexually functional by the time I reached my 30's.
Needless to say I was a bit confused and didn't know which way to turn ( at this time I thought these people were experts in this field representing the medical and scientific community. Boy was I wrong!). For the next three years this group continued sending me such material as well as the same type of information from a number of other related groups who had the same agenda.
Luckily by the time I reached my early 20's I came in contact with a doctor who was aware of the anti-circ groups and their tactics and spoke out against them regularly. He put me in contact with a few other people who were also aware of the anti-circ tactics, and taking a stand against them. They helped open my eyes to the truth about this issue so I could put aside all of the garbage that the anti-circ groups had been filling my head with for so long. I was now able to realize just who these people were and what they were trying to accomplish.
Since this time I have followed a number of these groups and kept a close eye on the tactics they have used over the years. Periodically I would write to them posing as young as 15 years old to see what type of information they would send such a young circumcised child. Not to my surprise the same type of material was sent and the same tactics used.
You must ask yourself, Why would anyone (especially adults) send this type of information to such a young child? Was it to help him in some strange way? Or was it to try and make him feel so bad about himself that he would become enraged at the world for allowing him to be "ruined" because he was circumcised at birth.
Many of the anti-circ individuals like nothing more than to convince circumcised males that they are ruined in every possible way. This in turn will give them an opportunity to try and convince some to speak out against circumcision via protests, demonstrations, appearing on television shows, radio etc. This is one of their main goals, and they will stop at nothing to try and achieve it.
Unfortunately these groups have succeeded a number of times over the years and will probably continue doing so. Now that they have saturated the Internet and libraries with much of their anti-circ literature, they will continue filling the minds of many with negative thoughts and unproven claims.
The reasons they have had success in convincing some circumcised males that they are ruined is because of the lack of knowledge many have on this topic. Also, there are those who are unstable and insecure about many things (especially their sexuality) and are therefore more easily effected by the brainwashing tactics of these groups.
One brief example is that of a 23 year old New Yorker who was arrested after attempting to steal circumcision board (board used to secure child while undergoing the procedure) from a local hospital. After he was caught, he told the security guards he was "radicalized" by contacts he made over the internet with such anti-circumcision groups as NORM, NOCIRC, and INTACT.
(Penthouse, August issue, page 106, 1996.)
The lesson I have learned from all of my years involved with these groups is to do my best to try and help educate others and make them aware of the true colours of some of these anti-circ individuals. Also to encourage parents to educate their circumcised sons about the many advantages and benefits of being circumcised as well as explaining to about the anti-circ groups and what their motives are.
This will give the child the knowledge he needs so he won't have to go on a blind search and run into all kinds of negative biased information put there by these groups. If he does run into such information, he will at least know that there is another side to this issue and that the anti-circ information is provided by people who have little concern about other people's views and feelings.
Many of these groups and individuals may act and appear to be fighting for the rights of others but in reality they are most often concerned with their own feelings and beliefs and don't really care a great deal about the rights of others.
It seems their only true desire is to try and convince and demand that everyone share their views and beliefs. If you don't then you are considered evil, barbaric and uneducated. I am sure any of you who have expressed your positive views toward circumcision on news groups and chat lines, know exactly what I am talking about.
All in all, I hope parents and individuals will have equal opportunity getting appropriate information regarding this issue for their own personal quest and during the time when they are making the decision on whether or not to have their son circumcised. If they are properly informed on both sides and they take into account their own personal feelings toward it, then whatever decision they make, either to have it done or not, should be respected and carried out without any strong persuasion from their doctor or other health care providers.
If the anti-circ activists could get off of their emotional rollercoasters for a while they might be able to deal with this issue on a more respectable level, then people such as myself wouldn't have to be concerned with the preachings of these groups and web pages such as this wouldn't be needed.
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/2754/testimonial.html
*****************************************************************
So there you have you it. I think it neatly summarizes many of the problems I have with the anti-circ movement. If you find any of his statements or conclusions dubious, I encourage anybody to get out there and research as far as their curiosity leads them and to then draw their own conclusions.
One of the principle things that Kong is angry about is that I often doubt the validity of many of his sources. This is due to the fact that the majority of Kong's sources come from these radical organizations.
When the information is cited from a recognized medical organization, university, unaffiliated reseracher, ect. , I am more than pleased to address it and consider the findings. In the case of block quotes from radical anti-circ websites, incomplete quotes from texts that are not available in their full form, or studies conducted by individuals that actually make money from men becoming upset about being circumcised (the "Women Prefer Uncut Men" thread), then I consider the source to be unreliable.
Kong has found this to be an unfair and unscrupulous practice on my part when discussing the issue of circumcision and FR. It is his contention that these sources are perfectly valid supports for his views. I will leave that decision up to anybody reading this and the other threads. It is only my intention to clearly outline why and how I come to the conclusion that certain sources of information are likely to be very biased or unreliable.
Though this man's experiences are certainly different from my own, we hold nearly identical views on circumcision (this quote does not address FR in any way) and we are coming from the same place philosophically. Please have a read.
*****************************************************************
Why I Have An Interest In this Issue
I developed this page because I felt there was a need to help balance some of the negative information (at times fanatical) presented by the anti-circ groups and individuals on the Internet.
I believe parents and individuals should have access to information on both sides of every issue, since the anti's only express their own biased views I realized I should do something about it.
Another factor which helped motivate me to create this page is because of knowledge I have of these anti-circ groups. I started developing this knowledge at a young age (17 years old), after writing to a group who was advertising in a magazine as an unbiased information source on this topic.
Curiosity about the circumcision issue can be overwhelming for many boys, circumcised or not. I was no exception. Ever since I was 15 years old I wanted to find answers to some of the questions I had, Who was circumcised? Why was it done? How was it done? etc.
Since it was a difficult issue to talk to parents about (just as all sexual related issues are) and since most of them never make a point to talk about it, I was left with no choice but to go searching for this information on my own. I searched every medical and sexual related book or magazine I could get my hands on, I learned a lot about this issue but still did not find all the answers I was looking for.
It wasn't until I was 17 did I come across a magazine article that spoke of an organization who claimed to be a leading information source on this topic. Eagerly I wrote to this group asking some questions, telling them my age, circumcision status and that I was happy about being circumcised.
Within a few weeks I received a letter and a large package of anti-circ information written by a number of anti-circ individuals. The letter or articles didn't contain any answers to my qestions but rather comments of how "damaged" I was supposed to be because I was circumcised at birth.
The letter basically tried to convince me I was ruined sexually, physically, psychologically and that I would probably develop uncontrollable urges to commit suicide later in life, more chances of becoming homosexual and more prone to becoming a rapist, pervert etc. They also tried to convince me that I should sue my parents and doctor for allowing me to be "mutilated" and "tortured", and I should consider getting a foreskin reconstruction if I wanted to be sexually functional by the time I reached my 30's.
Needless to say I was a bit confused and didn't know which way to turn ( at this time I thought these people were experts in this field representing the medical and scientific community. Boy was I wrong!). For the next three years this group continued sending me such material as well as the same type of information from a number of other related groups who had the same agenda.
Luckily by the time I reached my early 20's I came in contact with a doctor who was aware of the anti-circ groups and their tactics and spoke out against them regularly. He put me in contact with a few other people who were also aware of the anti-circ tactics, and taking a stand against them. They helped open my eyes to the truth about this issue so I could put aside all of the garbage that the anti-circ groups had been filling my head with for so long. I was now able to realize just who these people were and what they were trying to accomplish.
Since this time I have followed a number of these groups and kept a close eye on the tactics they have used over the years. Periodically I would write to them posing as young as 15 years old to see what type of information they would send such a young circumcised child. Not to my surprise the same type of material was sent and the same tactics used.
You must ask yourself, Why would anyone (especially adults) send this type of information to such a young child? Was it to help him in some strange way? Or was it to try and make him feel so bad about himself that he would become enraged at the world for allowing him to be "ruined" because he was circumcised at birth.
Many of the anti-circ individuals like nothing more than to convince circumcised males that they are ruined in every possible way. This in turn will give them an opportunity to try and convince some to speak out against circumcision via protests, demonstrations, appearing on television shows, radio etc. This is one of their main goals, and they will stop at nothing to try and achieve it.
Unfortunately these groups have succeeded a number of times over the years and will probably continue doing so. Now that they have saturated the Internet and libraries with much of their anti-circ literature, they will continue filling the minds of many with negative thoughts and unproven claims.
The reasons they have had success in convincing some circumcised males that they are ruined is because of the lack of knowledge many have on this topic. Also, there are those who are unstable and insecure about many things (especially their sexuality) and are therefore more easily effected by the brainwashing tactics of these groups.
One brief example is that of a 23 year old New Yorker who was arrested after attempting to steal circumcision board (board used to secure child while undergoing the procedure) from a local hospital. After he was caught, he told the security guards he was "radicalized" by contacts he made over the internet with such anti-circumcision groups as NORM, NOCIRC, and INTACT.
(Penthouse, August issue, page 106, 1996.)
The lesson I have learned from all of my years involved with these groups is to do my best to try and help educate others and make them aware of the true colours of some of these anti-circ individuals. Also to encourage parents to educate their circumcised sons about the many advantages and benefits of being circumcised as well as explaining to about the anti-circ groups and what their motives are.
This will give the child the knowledge he needs so he won't have to go on a blind search and run into all kinds of negative biased information put there by these groups. If he does run into such information, he will at least know that there is another side to this issue and that the anti-circ information is provided by people who have little concern about other people's views and feelings.
Many of these groups and individuals may act and appear to be fighting for the rights of others but in reality they are most often concerned with their own feelings and beliefs and don't really care a great deal about the rights of others.
It seems their only true desire is to try and convince and demand that everyone share their views and beliefs. If you don't then you are considered evil, barbaric and uneducated. I am sure any of you who have expressed your positive views toward circumcision on news groups and chat lines, know exactly what I am talking about.
All in all, I hope parents and individuals will have equal opportunity getting appropriate information regarding this issue for their own personal quest and during the time when they are making the decision on whether or not to have their son circumcised. If they are properly informed on both sides and they take into account their own personal feelings toward it, then whatever decision they make, either to have it done or not, should be respected and carried out without any strong persuasion from their doctor or other health care providers.
If the anti-circ activists could get off of their emotional rollercoasters for a while they might be able to deal with this issue on a more respectable level, then people such as myself wouldn't have to be concerned with the preachings of these groups and web pages such as this wouldn't be needed.
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/2754/testimonial.html
*****************************************************************
So there you have you it. I think it neatly summarizes many of the problems I have with the anti-circ movement. If you find any of his statements or conclusions dubious, I encourage anybody to get out there and research as far as their curiosity leads them and to then draw their own conclusions.
One of the principle things that Kong is angry about is that I often doubt the validity of many of his sources. This is due to the fact that the majority of Kong's sources come from these radical organizations.
When the information is cited from a recognized medical organization, university, unaffiliated reseracher, ect. , I am more than pleased to address it and consider the findings. In the case of block quotes from radical anti-circ websites, incomplete quotes from texts that are not available in their full form, or studies conducted by individuals that actually make money from men becoming upset about being circumcised (the "Women Prefer Uncut Men" thread), then I consider the source to be unreliable.
Kong has found this to be an unfair and unscrupulous practice on my part when discussing the issue of circumcision and FR. It is his contention that these sources are perfectly valid supports for his views. I will leave that decision up to anybody reading this and the other threads. It is only my intention to clearly outline why and how I come to the conclusion that certain sources of information are likely to be very biased or unreliable.
Last edited:
