About 3 weeks ago I joined www.penis-health.com. From all the research ive done online they seemed to be the best site. They have videos and a member forum. Well after they recieved my payment I was still not able to make any posts or reply to anything. It seems that the administrator forgot to add me. It took about 1 week of me emailing(about 6 emails) people to finaly beable to post anything.

As we all know member forums are important cause they give us a place ask questions and get answeres from those with experience.

Supra is also a member their. He seemed to have a lot of knowledge and make some big gains. His threads had many responses, so I read through them. I came across a link that brought me here, when I was reading some reply under one of his ROP threads. Mattersofsize.com looks like a great site and I had some questions.

So I went to the newbie forum there and asked only about DLD's workouts, and if anyone had tried them? The next day one of the moderators posts a reply for me to send him an instant message and he will explain this to me. Seems sneaky to me but whatever.

The next day when I go to log in it says that my IP Address has been blocked from entering the forum by the Administrator. Ive sent a million emails asking why this happened, and demanded that the problem be fixed. The payment was not just for learning videos, but also a forum where things could be discussed. Those mother fuckers never replied to me once. They just ignore me. So now 3 weeks later I cannot even enter the forum in which i paid for. Those mother fuckers are ass wholes.

I think the administrator got upset that I mentioned DLD and his workouts. But where the fuck is the freedom of speach and press? This is some bullshit. I go there with a questioin and this is what happens?

Are any of you members there?
How do you compare the 2 sites?
Is there a big difference on the amout of exercises and theyre effectivness?
WHY SHOULD I JOIN HERE?

Thanks guys. any advice will be great!
 
I also starte at [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Penis-Health[/words].com. I also saw posting about other sites there and moved on. I honestly go there maybe once a month to check out the forum, but I don't have access to post or reply (like you).

In my opinion, this site is far better than anything [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis-health[/words] can offer. Most of the excersices on their site are the basics. Once you get past those there is nothing else to do. It's like the Newbe Routine but that's all they pretty much have, as I recall. all this is my experience and opinion.

It's your choice if you join here or not. Read some forums, see what people are saying about DLD. You'll find people respect him and his excercises.
 
It would be hard to cover the benefits of joing [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MoS[/words] paysite without just quoting the front page of www.mattersofsize.com wholesale, but the KEY things that convinced me to join were;

Firstly, the dedication, honesty and pure hard-work ethic that DLD preaches and lives.
Second, the well documented gains he has achieved. He is his own living endorsement.
Third, the site has ongoing updates and every exercise is documented, given pics AND videos
Fourth, the one on one support and consultation he would give you if needed

Also, membership is a one off payment for life and most of the money goes to supporting these free forums. DLD puts his hand into his wallet each and every month to pay for US to talk about this stuff. He is also a very upfront guy who has the highest respect of everyone around here.

In fairness, you should note I am a mod so have invested time and effort into helping these forums, but all i can say is my own best recommendation I could give is the fact that I am a paid-up member!

It's a one time payment, and if you work on the advice given inside you will grow a bigger cock :)

Nuff said ? :)
 
Hey slick iam a member at [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis health[/words] and i had the same problem for a while i couldn't replay. I can now but i don't even bother to go to that site anymore. Guys here talk and replay alout more and faster. Besides that this forum has like three times the amount of exercises one can do. DLD lists a bunch of different exercises and u can click on them to learn them. I just stick to the basic stretching and jelging but iam happy with that. But in here u can learn some pretty crazy exercises that one would never think of. [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Penis health[/words] is a good site for info but if ur concerned with member interaction and up to date advice this is the spot.
 
are there set reutines in here for everyone from beginers to advanced Penis Enlargementxerciser?

are the exercises just clumped all together or are they listed in order of of effectiveness and user progression?
 
Yeah everything has been listed, you have to know what you're looking for. Start with the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/penis-enlargement-newbie-forum/1597-dlds-first-routine-i-gained-2-inches-with-this-routine-full-tutorial.html]Newbie routine[/words], try it out, and then you can always ask for some help on what the next step should be. The member site has 4 soon to be as many as six phases, I don't know if that's accurate, but there are updates being made at the moment. Each phsae is another path down the Penis Enlargement road, but remember without a good foundation there can be no skyscraper. Good luck.
 
Im not a fan of those [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis health[/words] sites. I viewed through their forums before stumbling on this place. What I can tell you is this place is legit you come here KNOWING that you will gain if you put some effort into it.

At the [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis health[/words] forum all I remember was some guy always saying that if you buy MSF pills you would automatically gain. Sure enough he was the administrator to the forum. When I asked him how the pills could possibley work and that it was a crock of shit he deleted my post.

If you ask a question here you get an honest answer. None of this "Ya all you have to do is buy my pills and do some jelqs.. oh ya heres the address to my penis pill site. Make sure you buy at least a 6 month supply... SUCKAH"
 
Yeah [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Penis health[/words] is bullshit.....

I was almost gonna order me up some Prosolution Penis pills see, then luckilly I stumbled on the ol' [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Penis-health[/words] site, Turns out they are the same fucking company, and has the same mailing address....

On the [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis health[/words] site I think there is a link to (enlargement techniques to avoid)....And it just says the Pills dont work etc....

So I emailed them up to tell them how fucking sick they make me....

But to answer your question, [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] is the Penis Enlargement place to be, Great site, good people....Tasty home cookin'.....


We come here to gain my man
 
The best advice to give you is to just stick arouond for a while. You don't have to join the paysite until you're ready. You'll find that there's alot of info here...
 
THANKS FOR THE ADVICE GUYS.

WELL HERES MY ROUTINE THAT I AM DOING FROM Penis EnlargementNIS-HEALTH.COM (those fucking money grubbing bastards)

5Days/Week - (mon-tue-wed-fri-sat)
Warm Up Cloth (wrap my cock with a hot wet hand towel for 5 mins)
Long Schlong (4 sets/15 second stretch in all 5 directions)
Power Stretch (4 sets/ 15 seconds in all 5 directions-hard jelq for last 5 sec.)
Wet Jelq (100 Jelqs/ 5 sets of 20 so that I keep a good erection)
Horizontal Movement (100 Jelqs/ 5 sets of 20/ to do this exercise you grip the base tightly with a OK GRIP with an 80%+erection, with your other hand just below the glans. Now move the hand below the glans down to the hand with the base grip. Keep grip tight. 1 full down and up to the glans motion is a rep. Supposed to move the blood back and forth between spongy tissues)
Warm Up Cloth
I do various amounts of PC Squeezes through out the day.

So this is my [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/penis-enlargement-newbie-forum/1597-dlds-first-routine-i-gained-2-inches-with-this-routine-full-tutorial.html]newbie routine[/words]. Im at the end of my 2nd week. I think im going to stay with this routine for 1 full month. After that im open to modifying it a bit. I know that when most guys think of having a larger cock they want some more length, but I understand the importance for girth and how it makes a women (spread and give you head at every command) feel!

Id like to keep my exercises around a 50/50 corolation between length and girth routines since they are both as equally important to me.

After this first month since im going to switch it up, im definantly going to get rid of the Long Schlong, since its pretty much the same exercise as the Power Stretch, I want to replace it with another type of stretch. Any good ideas for month 2, even though im 2 weeks away? And should one of the girth exercises be dropped for another, or just more reps added?

Oh and one more thing that I have been wanting to know for awhile but cant seem to find the answere to. When I measure my length I live to measure from the top of my erection to the tip of the glans. All I do is place a ruler on top so that half of my cock is showing, and I measure to the exact tip with out pushing the ruler in hard into my stomach. I feel that this is a much more accurate way of getting a measurement when compared to doing a ruler measurement from the side. What is the name of this measurement? Is there and abreviation for it?

My start date and sizes are listed below in my signature.


Thanks for the info!
 
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slicNICK said:
Oh and one more thing that I have been wanting to know for awhile but cant seem to find the answere to. When I measure my length I live to measure from the top of my erection to the tip of the glans. All I do is place a ruler on top so that half of my cock is showing, and I measure to the exact tip with out pushing the ruler in hard into my stomach. I feel that this is a much more accurate way of getting a measurement when compared to doing a ruler measurement from the side. What is the name of this measurement? Is there and abreviation for it?
NBPenis EnlargementL or Non bone pressed erect length.
 
All those mainstream Penis Enlargement programs charge you way too much. Give you some crap routine and only have a max of 15 different excercises. Spam you with their [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]Penis Enlargement pills[/words] that are made by them and then tell you that you will gain a ridiculous amount in the shortest amount of time.
 
Hey Guys
I'm one of the moderators over at M-N. I can honestly tell you that I have never encouraged anyone to take PSP. I've always made is perfectly clear the Penis Enlargement is the only way, and that at best, the pills might help. I really hate to see this turf battle between [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words], M-N, and Thunders. I think all of these sites offer something, you just need to read between the lines to figure out what is going on. I look at [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] as a good resource. I've picked up a few ideas here that have helped me advise people over at M-N. M-N is smaller and a little more oriented toward the newbie than [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words], but that doesn't make it bad. I think that it is great place to spend your first year and then you can experiment a little after that. [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] is a great place with a lot of good ideas, but it can be a little intimidating for the newbie. Myself, I'm a bit of a laid back veteran, and I prefer the M-N approach, but that says nothing negative about [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words]. I'm one of the people that helped sliknick get going over at M-N. But he seems rather negative about things, and his first post here is stressing negativity. Penis Enlargement is a positive event and we all need to look at that way. Screw this negative bullshit! It's not the site that is the critical event, it is you as an individual that becomes excited and motivated.
turtlechan (better known as turtle on the other sites)
 
Turtle i agree. Iam a member over at [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Penis Health[/words] and i think it is a good site. The exercises i do i learned all from the [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis health[/words] site. I dont do alll the advaced exercises i stick to jelging and stretching and i have made great gains just off that. I am confused on some issues, like how the web sites say hanging weights and pumping and pills are no good, but yet people do them. Other than that iam happy with both sites and think sharing ideas is way better than fighting.
 
Turthechan(known at Turtle at mens-network) is lying. I didnt type anything negative. I dont even know what the fuck he is talking about. They locked me out over there because in my last post I asked a question about DLD's exercises. They are obviously scared of this site for some reason, and just mentioning the Penis Enlargement Guru over here makes them act in a non professional way, such as they did to me for just asking a simple question. Ill probably beable to sue them for a breach of contract if they dont let me back in. We'll see what happens!
 
Oh and one more thing TURTLE(moderator at mens-network forum):

should the moderators over here at [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words], ban your ip address from entering the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] forum because you mentioned some other sites?

should they stoop to the level of the men-network forum?
 
I found this Forum through one of those [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis health[/words] pay forums. Im not even sure how I got access. I remember always asking them how their penis pills could help you increase your gains and why not just take viagra since the purpose of viagra is to give you an erection. Each time I made a post like that my post was deleted.

Also I would notice no matter what question a member had, the answer always had something to do with taking their supplement.
 
Why is there always a problem with M-N. 1st when I got access to [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis-health[/words].com I had to send about 5 emails and wait about a week before my account was authorized to make post in the forum. And yes you were the one that hepled me out, but it was a pain in the ass.

And now after having access to the forum for about a week I get my IP Address banned for no apparant reason.

Ive talked to many people here at [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words], and they say that a lot of shady stuff happens over there at your forum. People have told me many accounts of having there threads and posts deleted for just mentioning other sites or other exercises from other sites. That is what happened to me. So cut the bullshit and just come clean. Also why are the Pro Solution pills pushed so hard by the admin over there? Let me take a crack at it: BECAUSE Penis EnlargementNIS-HEALTH.COM, MENS-NETWORK - PRO SOLUTION PILL, are all in conjuction with each other. Im not sure who or what the name of the parent company is, but all i do know is that all the above stated are in conjuction with each other.

I know and you know that the only reason my IP Address was blocked was because I asked a question about DLD and his exercises, even though I never mentioned his site.

As soon as I finaly got access to the mens-network forum I started posting, replying, and starting new treads. And everyone got involved with what I was asking, including all moderators and even the admin. But as soon as a question about DLD appears on there my thread is so amazingly quickly deleted and my ability to post is gone. And about 3 hours later my IP Address is banned. You can say any bullshit you want about why or why not this happened, but its all to obvious. Fix the problem or keep your path of being a corrupt company over at [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis-health[/words].com.

Your reputation over there is going down hill very fast. And [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] is taking over this growing industry of Penis Enlargement. You guys at [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis-health[/words]. have way to many disgruntled members that only join because they find out about [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis-health[/words].com before [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words]. Why have a forum if there is no freedom of speach? Why have a forum if all you guys are going to do is delete treads and ban members for speaking about other sites, exercises, and gurus? There is something called the 5th amendment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At this rate of growth and customer satisfaction: [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] will become king and the others, well, will not be up to par!
 
Hey guys... i think that whatever issues anyone has with another site should be left there. Not every Penis Enlargement site is for everyone and as long as they're helping others, i say there's no need for bad mouthing. I agree with Turtlechan in not starting a turf war. Let's just let each person make up their own mind as to which site they want to call home [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] is mine and would prefer not to let issues with other sites disrupt what [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] does best and make us lose sight of our goals.... to make our cocks as big and thick as possible.
 
Jareth said:
... I am confused on some issues, like how the web sites say hanging weights and pumping and pills are no good, but yet people do them. ...

Hanging and pumping are two very old school methods for Penis Enlargement. Hanging has been proven time and again that it definitely works. I can personally attest to this. Pumping can also be effective but not by itself it is usually best used with a good stretching/jelqing routine, i made very good girth gains (permanent gains) by adding pumping to my routine. I don't have any experience with pill so i can't make any first hand comments but from what i've read, they won't make you bigger but they can help with workouts by allowing more blood flow to the penis similar to cialis/viagra. For the money, i prefer to use cialis/viagra over penis pills, but that's just me.
 
Originally Posted by sikdogg
Pumping can also be effective but not by itself it is usually best used with a good stretching/jelqing routine,

Do u mean like using a [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98]penis pump[/words] or something. I think iam confused on this issue i thought using something like this could actully hurt your dick?
 
Any exercize if done incorrectly or in excess can hurt your penis. There are generally accepted guideline that one can follow to minimize the risks: like making sure that the pump you use has a guage, or to start pumping slowly (at ~3-5 in.hg.) and not use pressures above 10 in.hg., etc... Injuries related to pumping and/or hanging is most likely attributed to people getting too gung-ho and starting with too much weight or pressures.
 
ya i agree with that. I have a pump i ordered a long time ago before i found out about Penis Enlargement. It just seemed to make my dick really weak and lifeless (IF that makes sense) after i would use it. But i guess if i was peing and using the pump it might be more effective. Where can i find more info on proper was to pump. Mine has no gauge on it. its just a regular cheap [words=https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?uid=6&oid=2&affid=98]penis pump[/words] is that good enough.
 
If it doesn't have i guage, i wouldn't use it. If you experience erection problems after pumping, you were prolly over-pumping. Never go cheap when safety in on the line...
 
Why can't the net just give a brother some LOVE:)
 
sikdogg said:
Cuz there's just too much jealousy, envy, and disbelief...

3 wonderful emotions that do so much good :s
 
Nothing compares to [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words],Its the only site that you can speak your mind and there is open discussion without some asshole trying to squelch it.Thanx DLD for providing us a forum that we can truly speak our minds without egotistcal assholes trying to rule our discussions.I tryed to help somebody out on thunders with a link to a generic viagra site and was accused of spamming,I haven't been back there since.How is helping somebody out to get generic viagra spamming.We all buy the shit why not help each other out with sources,the dude(who will remain unamed)accused me of making money off it,I have a business that nets a lot more than any viagra site could ever make give me a fucking break(sorry for the rant) ?:(
 
Ya Thunder's People are weirdo's. I got some pretty nasty PM's from their mods and Admin over that horsehung thing.

I hope our sources in our supplement section don't leak over to that forum. Those people don't deserve to know.
 
poonologist said:
some of these admins are too damn cocky :D

so might as well come to the place whos admin has the biggest

:D Well the Admin from LPSG has a 17" x 10" :s
 
slicNICK said:
About 3 weeks ago I joined www.penis-health.com. From all the research ive done online they seemed to be the best site. They have videos and a member forum. Well after they recieved my payment I was still not able to make any posts or reply to anything. It seems that the administrator forgot to add me. It took about 1 week of me emailing(about 6 emails) people to finaly beable to post anything.

As we all know member forums are important cause they give us a place ask questions and get answeres from those with experience.

Supra is also a member their. He seemed to have a lot of knowledge and make some big gains. His threads had many responses, so I read through them. I came across a link that brought me here, when I was reading some reply under one of his ROP threads. Mattersofsize.com looks like a great site and I had some questions.

So I went to the newbie forum there and asked only about DLD's workouts, and if anyone had tried them? The next day one of the moderators posts a reply for me to send him an instant message and he will explain this to me. Seems sneaky to me but whatever.

The next day when I go to log in it says that my IP Address has been blocked from entering the forum by the Administrator. Ive sent a million emails asking why this happened, and demanded that the problem be fixed. The payment was not just for learning videos, but also a forum where things could be discussed. Those mother fuckers never replied to me once. They just ignore me. So now 3 weeks later I cannot even enter the forum in which i paid for. Those mother fuckers are ass wholes.

I think the administrator got upset that I mentioned DLD and his workouts. But where the fuck is the freedom of speach and press? This is some bullshit. I go there with a questioin and this is what happens?

Are any of you members there?
How do you compare the 2 sites?
Is there a big difference on the amout of exercises and theyre effectivness?
WHY SHOULD I JOIN HERE?

Thanks guys. any advice will be great!

Did you happen to pay via credit card? If so, the best way to "get them back" so to speak, is to call your credit card company and contest the payment. In other words, you get your money back and [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis health[/words] has to refund it. If they get enough of those.....their billing company will eventually drop them, and it is a big hassle to get another billing company to pick you up after that has happened.
 
Another incredible difference is the new Phase 5 at [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MoS[/words]:)
 
Slicnick, I although thought about buying into one of those "professional sites" (I purposely put this into inverted commas) like [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Penis-health[/words], etc. After lurking around the web for just about 6 weeks I tried to sort out all the available sites and tried to find those 2 or 3 sites that I truly think are leading edge, one of them is definetly this one here.
The one thing I got very sceptical about is the way people advertise Penis Enlargement. In a German forum I heard people say that this Penis Enlargement stuff is not at all about making 5" in 6 Month. It's all about persistence and consistency of training.
So, when I stumbled across this site, nobody every promised anything, only so much, that if being persistent and consistent, this will make you gain. And I think thats a fair statement to all of us. So its not only DLD and some of the mods that have that kind of attitude, but this whole bunch here is has the same view on this.
So I became a member here, and found a very structured members section. Down to the essence. Phase 1 through 5, Description of the routine and video.
Excellent, its kept to the point and doesn't waste my time clicking through pages full of ad material and BS.

Moreover, I've gained 2/5" in BPenis EnlargementL in 6 weeks - this shit really does work. Just stick to Phase 1 of the routine and voila.......
 
If anyone wants my password and username for [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]penis health[/words] than pm me and ask nicely lol you can have it. I will tell you the details and also a site to use that hides your IP and uses the same IP for all of you useing my account, in case they stop it....dont really care but than you lot wont all see it whom wonna see it. You can yhan make your own mind up.
Myn is that its very cheap and un-pro, it didnt help me at all.
The exercises lol are common that are already here on these forums for FREE.
The routines aren't structured properly, but hey some may like them.
 
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mrdstone said:
Slicnick, I although thought about buying into one of those "professional sites" (I purposely put this into inverted commas) like [words=https://shop.mattersofsize.com/products/sizegenetics-penis-extender]Penis-health[/words], etc. After lurking around the web for just about 6 weeks I tried to sort out all the available sites and tried to find those 2 or 3 sites that I truly think are leading edge, one of them is definetly this one here.
The one thing I got very sceptical about is the way people advertise Penis Enlargement. In a German forum I heard people say that this Penis Enlargement stuff is not at all about making 5" in 6 Month. It's all about persistence and consistency of training.
So, when I stumbled across this site, nobody every promised anything, only so much, that if being persistent and consistent, this will make you gain. And I think thats a fair statement to all of us. So its not only DLD and some of the mods that have that kind of attitude, but this whole bunch here is has the same view on this.
So I became a member here, and found a very structured members section. Down to the essence. Phase 1 through 5, Description of the routine and video.
Excellent, its kept to the point and doesn't waste my time clicking through pages full of ad material and BS.

Moreover, I've gained 2/5" in BPenis EnlargementL in 6 weeks - this shit really does work. Just stick to Phase 1 of the routine and voila.......

When I read reviews like this I know I am doing things the right way.
 
MOS is FANTASTIC paysite, now I'm bound to say things like this.
Dont take my word for it, PM me and I can hook you up with my account for PH.
Sample the sample page of [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words], dld will hook you up....you'll notice the difference.
 
REDZULU2003 said:
MOS is FANTASTIC paysite, now I'm bound to say things like this.
Dont take my word for it, PM me and I can hook you up with my account for PH.
Sample the sample page of [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words], dld will hook you up....you'll notice the difference.
I'm not bound to say those things but i believe that [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] is the best paysite around.
 
Yeye they have uptight rules.
We have big cocks and gangsta attitude. Know wha im sain?

Im staying at [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]mos[/words] i like it here. I started with the prosolution pills aswell. Gave nothing. Followed their program. Read like a thousand posts and they had this less is more attitude. Do t pull it too hard and so on.

First thing i saw when joining [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]mos[/words] was a bundled something something. However i realized that if you wanna change something that is supposed to be permanent. Hard work is required.

And i have no doubt that [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]mos[/words] is what i need. When i hit my goal i will probably still hang around here. (and the mens shower, i figure the best way to get more members here is to stand naked and laugh at the small guys :) just kidding)

But it comes down to personal choise. When i read [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]mos[/words] i understood the thinking and the attitude. I didnt the other places.
 
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