Strength, but no MASS?!?

Hey everyone,

I've come across a problem and I was hoping to find some help here. You see, I've been seriously weightlifting for around 4 years now, and up to this point, my body, in terms of strength and size, has grown well.

However, in the past few months, I've been training harder, and gaining strength all the same as usual, but my mass has not been increasing much at all! My muscles have hardened and more veins are showing, but size is barely going up. On the scales, I have been at around 165 for many months, with a goal of getting to 180 (I want to look like Frank Zane, or as close as possible without using steroids or anything of that nature). Can anyone offer me some advice on why this may be?

Other notes:

Diet consists of roughly 220g protein daily (mostly from Isopure powder and chicken breast), 130g Carbs, and as little fat as possible.

In particular, my biceps, the muscle group I want to build up the most, have grown less than half an inch in the past 10 months (14in). Barbell curl weight (8 reps) has increased by around 20 lbs (80 - 100).

Any help would be appreciated. I really wanna be at my goal in both size and strength in a few more years.

Thanks,
ManofPrinciples

Why as little fat as possible? Your diet needs to be 25-35% fats, with as much of that as possible coming from healthy sources such as nuts, fish, flaxseed oil, etc. You also need to eat more carbs in order to grow. Check out these articles (in this order):

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459493

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460027

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=CB667D7A310BCECB9A3C4E9E95B874CB.hydra?id=460331

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=CB667D7A310BCECB9A3C4E9E95B874CB.hydra?id=460327

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459429

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459431

lol t-nation
dude what does ur diet look like (give us a excerpt), and ur workout

im2manly said:

lol t-nation

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Same links as my other post. Berardi knows his stuff. I gues that's why he's one of the top sports nutritionists in the world.

At the very least, it will help manofprinciples realize that he needs more fat, and more calories in general.

BTW, low-fat diets tend to decrease your testosterone production. Higher-fat diets will increase it.

Hey guys, thx for quick replies. Let me specify a little more.

About T-nation, I actually read about it here a while back from you 9C, and it helped a lot, so thank you!

Also, in terms of fat, I meant as little bad fat, or fat in junk food. Although I still probably dont get all the fats I need, almost all of my fats come from almonds, which I love, and salmon. Still, it probably does not exceed 40g a day.

Sample daily diet would be:

Wake up at 10 or 11 - 1 scoop of Isopure with 2 glasses of milk (~ 45g protein, 30g carbs, 0 fat)

3 o clock, after class - 1 Chicken breast, grilled (~35g P, not sure of C or F)

7 o clock, post workout/dinner - 2 scoops Isopure, with 2 glasses milk, 1 Chicken breast, 2 oz almonds, carrots and spinach (~ 100g P, 25g F)

10 or 11 at night - 1 scoop Isopure with 2 glasses of milk (~45g P)

Note: Random snacking of berries, grapes, and pineapple throughout the day. Fish is eaten once every...4 days or so.


Workouts:

My workouts are split into 3 parts, which takes about 10 days, including rest, to cycle through. They are composed of a strength day, mass day, and definition day. Strength days usually have higher sets and lower reps of heavy compound movements with 4 exercises in all. Mass days are medium numbers of sets with 6 - 8 reps of moderately heavy weight, 4 exercises in all. Definition days are medium sets with high and light reps.

Notes:

Since I usually do not have a spotter, I can't use forced reps and negative training as much as I'd like.

Most of my workouts on mass and strength days go to failure or very near it. Form is also very important to me and takes precedent over weight.

I run a mile or two everyday at a moderate pace.

Thanks!

You seem like you've got it pretty well together. The issue is probably just getting enough calories. If you take a look at the last two articles I posted, Berardi writes about outcome-based decision making. Basically you monitor your progress every two weeks or so, and then change your diet based on whether you're progressing or not. So if you've gained too much fat or you're cutting and haven't lost any fat, you might drop 250 kcals per day, or if you haven't gained any weight you might add 250 kcals per day. Take a look at those two articles, it makes a whole lot of sense to use this approach.

I'd still suggest adding some more healthy fats. Get some fish oil capsules, they're very affordable and a great way to get some quality fats (especially omega 3's) in your diet. Udo's Choice oil blend is also good (although a bit more pricey), and it tastes pretty good mixed with a chocolate protein shake. Put a tablespoon of olive oil on your salads or veggies, it's 14g of healthy fats per Tbsp.

That diet needs work... His first meal is around 10Am and his last meal is around 10pm, that means that he's fasting for 12 hours. He also need to eat more often and space the meals out better throughout the day. If his macro breakdown is correct, then he's eating just enough protein, but what about carbs and fats for the whole day?? Clearly he's not eating enough to put on any real mass. I understand that eating regularly is tough for college folks but that can easily be solved by packing your meals and eating as you go...

I agree w/ sikdogg about his diet but would like to add that he is training for to many differnt things. When boby builders what to put on mass the up thier calories reduces cardio and most important lift heavy and concentrate on the movement of thier muscles.A workout technique ive used is lift very slow about 6-8sec on your negative and 2sec on the posative part of your workout. This rutine help my biceps to go from 18 to 19's in a few months

Wait, how am I fasting for 12 hours? I eat about every 3 - 4 hours each day. I could probably use more carbs and fat, but I dont want to have any extra mass be wasted mass and not lean muscle.

You are fasting overnight but where most people only fast for about 8 hours, you are fasting for 12. You also have a 5 hour gap between your first meal and your second... The biggest thing that i really see with your diet is not so much the timing as the fact that you just aren't eating enough. I'm not trying to bash you... i'm trying to point out things in your diet that can be the cause of why you're not gaining mass.

This was my cutting diet that i did last year that got me from 19% bf to 14% over a couple of months. During that time my strength kept increasing and was able to put on a little size while dropping alot of fat. You can see that my overnight fast was only about 7 1/2 hours.

Meal 1 (7AM)
6 EggWhites
1 Serv Mozz
1/2 Cup All Bran
Protein Shake (40g)

DiArginine Malate
Creatine Ethyl Ester
Citrulline Malate

Meal 2 (10:30-11:00AM)
1 Canned Chicken
Protein Shake
1 Serv Mozz

Meal 3 (2PM)
1 Can Tuna
1 Cup Broccoli
Protein Shake

Meal 4 (~5PM)
Protein Shake (40g)
1 Whole Grain Bagel

DiArginine Malate
Creatine Ethyl Ester
Citrulline Malate

Meal 5 (7PM)
Protein Shake (40g)
1 Whole Grain Bagel

Meal 6 (10:30PM)
Gorton's Fish Fillet
1 Cup Broccoli
16oz. Water

Oh I see! That makes a lot of sense. The problem is that it's just REALLY hard for me to get up in the morning. Like...horribly hard. Due to my working late and studying, when I get to bed I'm usually exhausted to where 8 hours just doesnt fuel my day well enough. I will try though, to get up early enough to add in another meal.

For the meal plan, my bodyfat is about 9%, which is a very little bit over what I want it to be. Sikdogg, your cutting diet seems to have a LOT of food in it! For me, I am not sure if I could eat that much in a day even if I had some money to spare to get all that good stuff. But also it matters about how much you weighed because I might not need to eat as much if I am a lot smaller than you (I'm 5'9, 165lbs btw). How much did you weigh? I may be able to scale the macro amounts down.

I've also heard that it is bad to eat late at night as it gets tacked onto the body as fat. Any opinion on that?

Thanks!

jesus i wish i could get strenght but no mass

I weighed a little over 200lbs when i used that diet... Since you are trying to gain, you could follow a similar meal plan to gain weight since it would be above maintenance for your weight. It's pretty clean so you wouldn't put on much fat as long as you're training real hard. The macro breakdown was something like:

Total Cals. = 3330
Fat: 30g
Carbs: 240g
Protein: 420g

Strength and mass go hand in hand. Usually the mass takes time to catch up to correlate with how strong someone is unless they have super genetics or take enhancing drugs. This is why smaller guys can be much stronger than huge men. Tendon and ligament strength come into it, its not all about muscles and importantly neuromuscular connectivity (Brain to muscle) with those having a better connection being able to hit a full strength lift in one attempt for example.

This is why when someone is drunk and angry or a mentally ill person is going mad they are very strong, the liming factors over the neuromuscular connections are reduced and so they are all fired off and they are stronger.

Keep lifting heavy weights with intensity, infrequently and with progression and you will become Gorilla strong and the mass will come. The mass however you want to be QUALITY and not mostly fat and fluid bloated which is very easy and common from supplements just hoarding lots of water and sugar in the muscles.

Old thread but a subject that has major confusion over it. Lift heavy and you will become stronger and have larger muscles, its physics. A muscle has to become larger when being stressed against a heavy resistance.

Keep lifting heavy weights with intensity, infrequently and with progression and you will become Gorilla strong and the mass will come. The mass however you want to be QUALITY and not mostly fat and fluid bloated which is very easy and common from supplements just hoarding lots of water and sugar in the muscles.

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Yep, Celltech does that. I'd like to be beyond Steve Reeves and frank zane's physique which has symmetry, not bloated stomachs. Doesn't look right at all. I see guys giving advice and crap on how to eat and stuff. One guy told me to take 6 proteins a day. That guy is an idiot. Only take 2 a day and the rest of my nutrients come from food.

I'm more into the old style body builders like Frank Zane but even the massive ones back than such as Arnie and Serge Oliva looked good and not in my view over the top such as Dorian Yates albeit I respect in his world that it has to be done for him to succeed now. The stomachs are bloated now yeah and Arnie attributed that to the lack of Stomach Vacuums being practised nowadays.

Guys who body build and in general 9/10 times seem to just want mass everywhere incl the obliques which I see as senseless because with larger waist muscles you ruin the 'V' taper. Huge droopy pecs is another one when they should focus on wider pecs and to get them the best exercise I found was the wide grip neck press.

steven5;420699 said:

Great tips shared here.,.. i also like to gain strength but no mass,....great sharing,..thanks,

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Why such short replies?