Answer to @MosMaster regarding: Mike Mentzer's training method.

I'm continuing here a previous discussion with @MosMaster, with this new thread.
I post this here instead, since I do not think It's directly related (only indirectly related) to this thread:
🔗 Getting "The Golden Ratio" Penis (8"x 6") - Logbook
I want to keep this Logbook mostly about penis enlargement.

Previous discussion:
(You can "click" the links, in order to get to the original posts).

squirt_inducer_man said:

@MosMaster I need to thank you for sharing this with me, what a paradigm shift it gave me. It really opened up my mind to things. I'm probably going to buy, Mike Mentzer's books. Kind regards.

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MosMaster said:

It really does. Funny thing is, I would guess 90% of all "sophisticated" trainers around the world is not even aware of these fundamental principles of human biology when it comes to strength training. And I say that having been a trainer myself for 10+ years.

By all means please try to get your hands on his books if you can. All I know is they can be either hard to get or pricey due to scarcity.
Meanwhile, since you seem interested you can watch the videos of John Heart. He worked closely with Mike Mentzer until his death and been practicing these principles throughout his career:

https://www.youtube.com/@MrAmericaHeart

To dum it down it comes down to the training needs to be IBI (Intense, Brief, Infrequent). Intense in that you go all out of each set performed, brief in that the workout should be around 20-40 minutes max (excluding warmup) and infrequent. And here you need to experiment to find the best frequency that your body has the ability to recover from. As he explains with great examples in the interview.

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Okay so you are a trainer, very interesting... I'm myself really interesting in this kind of information...everything that relates to optimize our body and brain/mind. That's probably why I got so involved with penis enlargement and the MOS brotherhood so fast.

I found books by: Mike Mentzer at Amazon, and they where new and not hard to find (not expensive either). The books I found was:
• The Wisdom of Mike Mentzer: The Art, Science and Philosophy of a Bodybuilding Legend.
• High-Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way (NTC SPORTS/FITNESS).

I will watch the videos in the link you have provided, you seems to be a brother that got really deep knowledge of this stuff. Happy to talk to you...and probe your mind.
I have to say, I think I have pretty much used this IBI (Intense, Brief, Infrequent) mindset/approach you and Mike Mentzer are talking about (without knowing it), in my training program.
I used a method (before discovering MOS and penis enlargement) where I was only lifting 1-3 times per week (mostly max 2 times per week, but sometimes a little more), and I was able to lift 250 kilogram in deadlift with the help of my training method (at the end of year: 2022)

It took a long time (several years; ~17 years to prepare my body for it) to get to this point. I started lifting weights when I was 15 years old.
I'm all natural, the only supplements I took was: Multivitamin, Vitamine-D3 (10000IU/250μg per day), Omega-3, Whey-80 (protein powder) and Creatine Monohydrate. I must say, Creatine Monohydrate is a game changer for me.

The lifts I was doing was mostly (always heavy):
1. Deadlift.
2. Rack-pull from above the knee.
3. Heavy one arm dumbbell row (over: 100 kilogram)
4. Some bench presses (not much), or: flat bench dumbbell presses.
These exercises I did with 5x5 (5 sets and 5 repetitions, on each exercise).
I did max 1-2 exercises per workout.

Also:
4. Concept 2® Rower (Rowboat simulator), is insanely good.
For keeping your heart and circulation system in a tip top state.
I wish I got one of those at home.

I didn't need to work-out my legs (no squats), since they are so much stimulated by this program, and they have always been, on the bigger side. This was mostly what I did. But I did some other exercises as well, just for the fun of it. My arms got so big that a regular
blood pressure cuff, didn't fit around my arms.

So indeed I see the validity of Mike Mentzer's approach to training, it's indeed very easy to over-train, and most people do not know about this. I have seen people at the gym, going there for years and years, and they are not able to increase their muscle mass to the level they want to, that's sad... you want to help out, you try to tell them how to work out (when they ask me), but if they are not dedicated enough with discipline and dedication, I can never help them. They did not live/are living my lifestyle. I can relate most of the structure that's needed to build muscles, to penis enlargement as well. You need discipline, structure, and a plan and a goal.

To lift 250 kilogram was fun, but I realized soon that it was not super healthy to be on this kind of body fat mass level (and total body weight), that I needed to be on in order to be super strong (lift heavy weights). But I did indeed feel really good about myself to be able to accomplish this goal.
I was in some kind of "bubble" and all I could think about was to eat, sleep, work-out/train, going to work -> and repeat. MOS and penis enlargement made me realize, that there was more important things in life then "just" going to the gym. The audio tape and the comments you gave previously, was extremely helpful, to help me to realize/actualize this even further on a much deeper level.

Mike Mentzer talked about this as well, and he implied that most bodybuilders did just do what they thought was helping them (with no logical base at all), and the mainstream knowledge bodybuilders have (and also regular people), is that you need to be at the gym 7 days a week, and do 4 hours of lifting every day (being at the gym a lot). This is not even possible if you do not take any kind of performance enchaining drugs (anabolic steroids, and others). The body isn't made to do this kind of workload, and heal from it and to it all over the next day.
Mike was also relating to that a regular bodybuilders approach to getting stronger, is like endurance training, and not actually an approach from a point of view to optimizing strength (skeletal muscle mass). He was also mentioning that bodybuilders have nothing else in their life outside of the gym. Most of bodybuilders are stuck in the mindset they got when they started going to the gym, and many are stuck in the typical "meat head" state their entire life. Not all but many he said became this way. They had noting else going for them except what happened in the gym. All this information was really interesting, and I suggest that all the brothers that are reading this post, listening through this audio track, and really think about what Mike Mentzer are saying. That is: The underlying meaning of his words is really important. Everything Mike Mentzer was talking about in this audio track was so obvious. But many people does not even know about this fundamental concept about training. If you approach this thinking to your penis enlargement, you are becoming unstoppable.

I thank you again @MosMaster, for making me realize that the health is the most important thing in life. PE made me skip the gym/working out for over 30 days (I became so invested in PE), this made me eat less and lose: 5,9 kg (~13 lb) in body fat mass, but I also lost, 2,7 kg (~5.95 lb) in skeletal muscle mass. To lose skeletal muscle mass was really hard mentally.

I went from: 46,9 kg (~103 lb) skeletal muscle mass; to: 44,2 kg (~97 lb) skeletal muscle mass.
I went from: 41,2 kg (~18.7 lb) body fat mass (PBF: 31,5%); to: 37,5 kg (~82.7 lb) body fat mass . (PBF: 29,0%)
PBF stands for: Percent Body Fat.

But I realize it's not probably possible to be at that kind of muscle mass level without the fat to support it.
As I understand it (info from a trainer at my gym):
The fat around your muscles creates a pressure/a support, so the muscles can perform better, and therefore you cannot be on the same level of skeletal muscle mass without this added fat. If it's healthy or not to have this level of fat in your body, it's up for discussion?

Before losing all that weight, I walked around like a Gorilla, looked like a Gorilla, and it made me really cumbersome to move around in life. I could not practically find any clothing that fitted me. I have lost 3 holes in my belt now. It happened fast.
I even got knee pain from being so heavy. I was a little over; 120 kg/264.5 lb, at my max weight. I measured this weight with my scale at home, this scale broke after some time.

I know my measurements on fat and muscle mass because I did measured myself with the equipment: InBody270 at my local gym.
If you haven't done this I would highly recommend this. It's pretty strange that health care centers, do not have this kind of equipment. With this you can't lie about your fat percentage, and body composition. You see other values/measurements, other then fat and muscle mass as well, that is: Important values to optimize your health.

To just look at the body weight and do a visual inspection of a person is not a accurate method, it's not even scientific in any way. You can say that you only see one dimension of your health values. But InBody270 costs around 80000 SEK (~7,649.1566 USD), so I understand why it's not more accessible to people. But I wish It was, I think people would be much more healthy in their life If they knew their stats.

@MosMaster, Because you said you where a trainer, I wrote this insanely long post. I hope you found this okay to read, and interesting. We can discuss more health related topics if you want to. I'm a nerd to all this kind of information.

Kind regards

Wow, you surely got some great strength! 250 kg deads and +100 kg dumbbell rows?! Damn you must be working out in a powerlifter gym

You have a phenomenally great base strength-wise. I don't know your exact goals but if I were you I would get on a simple intermittent fasting protocol (I do 16:8, very simple and effective, been doing it for 10 years and staying lean is super easy this way) and try to eat as healthy as you can because staying on such high fat levels is not optimal for health and longevity. You could for example aim to get to 15% body fat this way and at the same time try to maintain your strength as much as you can and you would look insanely good approaching 15% BF. Also getting leaner have other benefits like optimized hormonal levels and overall well being and of course your "fat pad" would greatly decrease, exposing more penis and PE gains.

You can stay on a similar training regime but probably lower the sets a bit because you will be on lower calories. (IF this is what you want)
To maintain (and even possibly increase) strength I would look into Reverse Pyramid Training it's super effective. The reason I prefer RPT to 5x5 is that it's better for hypertrophy and at the same time you can increase/maintain strength. Here's a great article on it:
The Reverse Pyramid Training Guide - Leangains if you're interested you can read all the articles on this site. It's some of the greatest no bullshit training information I've come across. Martin Berkhan is a training genius and it was him that made intermittent fasting really popular in Sweden. He also built his principles a lot from Arthur Jones that was Mike Mentzers original mentor!

Tell me more about you goals so I could maybe help you further and ask questions if you have. Always fun to help someone who is motivated!

@MosMaster very interesting to read what you wrote. Many concepts I do not knew about beforehand. For sure, I would want to slim down to 15% body fat. My gorilla 🦍 state is done. 😆 I think 15% body fat mass, is the only way forward for me.
They say this is the optimal fat level for men. Women can get a higher, but men should stay low.

Realized it was not super healthy to be at that body fat level. Starting PE was good for me I must say. Lost all that crap in my body.

I do not exactly know how to get to 15% body fat, without loosing muscle mass. Would love to push up my muscle mass a bit, without gaining fat as well. I remember I even put sunflower oil in my protein drinks to get in more calories, not healthy I would say.

Yes indeed 250 kilogram in deadlift around 3 times. Or, 250,1 kilogram if you count in the weight stoppers (Eleiko magnetic ones weighing 0,5 kg each).

And constantly doing one armed dumbell rows with 100+ kilogram. The gym bought a dumbell handle only for me, that I could load as much I wanted on (50 mm holed plates). Nobody else are using it. 😂 I get annoyed when everyone is hanging the steal plates the wrong way. I'm a training nerd. 🤔

So nice of them to only buy thay for me. Without this I would probably not be as strong as I am today.

By the way this is only a "regular" gym and before my "cut" I could max out most of the machines (on upper body), they felt like indurance training. But now I understand how insane this was, I was in a "bubble" and my life was only about going to the gym and be as strong as possible. This is not a super health lifestyle...

Tried deadlift after this month of not being at the gym, and I could only pull 200 kilogram in deadlift (without any belt), so my strength have gone down. I know I have strengthdismorphia since the guy that messured me (with: InBody 270) said he could "only" max out 180 kilogram in deadlift when he was at his strongest state.

But no more pain in my knees anymore, and I can actually run without any problems.

MosMaster said:

You can stay on a similar training regime but probably lower the sets a bit because you will be on lower calories. (IF this is what you want)

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What do you mean? Do you mean I can lower the sets from 5x5 to like 3x5 ? [SETxREP]?

I need to look into;

MosMaster said:

I don't know your exact goals but if I were you I would get on a simple intermittent fasting protocol (I do 16:8, very simple and effective, been doing it for 10 years and staying lean is super easy this way)

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This seams like something I would like to do. I fast somewhat every day, and only eat light breakfast and then eat in the evning. But there is no plan to my fasting or what I eat. I don't really know how I would do this? Have no problem of going many hours without food. I feel like this is the way to go.

MosMaster said:

Here's a great article on it:
The Reverse Pyramid Training Guide - Leangains

Click to expand...

I will read this.

Thanks for being so helpful.
Have you yourself messured yourself with the InBody270? I can post my reports if that would be interesting to you?

I need to go through your text more at a later time...have not so much time right now...very intense focused work related tasks, that I need to do this week.

But I think your information will help me a lot.
You seem to be a guy with such good knowledge. And knowledge outside "the box".

MOS is so much more then penis enlargement, it's a self developing/personal developing brotherhood.

Kind regards.

squirt_inducer_man said:

I do not exactly know how to get to 15% body fat, without loosing muscle mass. Would love to push up my muscle mass a bit, without gaining fat as well. I remember I even put sunflower oil in my protein drinks to get in more calories, not healthy I would say.

Click to expand...

You already have great muscle mass, otherwise you would never be able to do those numbers. You will not lose muscle mass as long as you keep a reasonably high daily intake of proteins and preferably train RPT style. The key to getting sustainably lean is to create a slight caloric deficit on a daily basis and this is why intermittent comes in handy. Eating this way you will probably at least eat 1 less meal a day on average. There's a big advantage right there, and of course for best results you would need to be a bit mindful of your food choices. And this dosen't mean never have a cheat meal here and there. It's totally fine as long as you put emphasis on eating clean.

If you wanna get super specific you could always weigh everything and track your calories but I would probably never do that. It's too much of micro managing for my taste.

Throw away and never buy sunflower oil ever again, it's not originally even made for human consumption. Made for factory machines, it's really a nasty ass oil. Always just natural oils like olive and coconut etc.

squirt_inducer_man said:

What do you mean? Do you mean I can lower the sets from 5x5 to like 3x5 ? [SETxREP]?

Click to expand...

Yes exactly.

squirt_inducer_man said:

This seams like something I would like to do. I fast somewhat every day, and only eat light breakfast and then eat in the evning. But there is no plan to my fasting or what I eat. I don't really know how I would do this? Have no problem of going many hours without food. I feel like this is the way to go.

Click to expand...

Just keep your eating window max 8 hours and fast at least 16 hours. During fasting you consume 0 calories or else you wont get the full benefits. Drinking lots of water, tea, black coffee are fine. For example I break the fast usually 15:00 and eat latest meal 23:00. Usually 2-3 meals a day, go with 1 small or 2 small and 1 big. Adjust for your life situation.

squirt_inducer_man said:

Have you yourself messured yourself with the InBody270? I can post my reports if that would be interesting to you?

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No unfortunately not for many years. Sure post it

MosMaster said:

You already have great muscle mass, otherwise you would never be able to do those numbers. You will not lose muscle mass as long as you keep a reasonably high daily intake of proteins and preferably train RPT style. The key to getting sustainably lean is to create a slight caloric deficit on a daily basis and this is why intermittent comes in handy. Eating this way you will probably at least eat 1 less meal a day on average. There's a big advantage right there, and of course for best results you would need to be a bit mindful of your food choices. And this dosen't mean never have a cheat meal here and there. It's totally fine as long as you put emphasis on eating clean.

If you wanna get super specific you could always weigh everything and track your calories but I would probably never do that. It's too much of micro managing for my taste.

Throw away and never buy sunflower oil ever again, it's not originally even made for human consumption. Made for factory machines, it's really a nasty ass oil. Always just natural oils like olive and coconut etc.


Yes exactly.


Just keep your eating window max 8 hours and fast at least 16 hours. During fasting you consume 0 calories or else you wont get the full benefits. Drinking lots of water, tea, black coffee are fine. For example I break the fast usually 15:00 and eat at latest again 23:00. Usually 2-3 meals go 1 small or 2 small and 1 big. Adjust for your life situation.


No unfortunately not for many years. Sure post it

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Thanks for the feedback, really appreciate it.
I will incorporate your suggestions into my life and see where it takes me.

squirt_inducer_man said:

Thanks for the feedback, really appreciate it.
I will incorporate your suggestions into my life and see where it takes me.

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It will take you right where you wanna be, as long as you're consistent !

MosMaster said:

It will take you right where you wanna be, as long as you're consistent !

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Thanks!

I realize I need to increase my protein intake. Need to get to the gym as well, I have become much smaller now. It's good. But I do not want to lose to much strength/skeletal muscle mass.

squirt_inducer_man said:

I realize I need to increase my protein intake.

Click to expand...

What makes you think that? How many grams are you consuming approximately every day on average?

You can maintain and build muscle, even on a caloric deficit, especially if you are overweight, training 2-3 times a week.

Did you read the Reverse Pyramid Training guide? Contains sample schedule which is very good. If you need

Have eaten very poorly, need to get back in the gym again. My apatite gets really bad if I'm not lifting weights...
Avarage protein intake per day: 124 gram. Before it was over 200 gram protein per day. I have stopped consuming Whey-80 protein powder drinks as well. Maybe 124 gram isn't that bad, but some increase maybe. Don't know how much my body weight mass is now.

I know I'm losing muscle mass. Can't be this lazy, I need to start training again. Need to plan 3 sessions every week.

I need to go through Reverse Pyramid Training guide, thanks for reminding me.

This will be a wakeup call for me. Lets go again.

squirt_inducer_man said:

Have eaten very poorly, need to get back in the gym again. My apatite gets really bad if I'm not lifting weights...
Avarage protein intake per day: 124 gram. Before it was over 200 gram protein per day. I have stopped consuming Whey-80 protein powder drinks as well. Maybe 124 gram isn't that bad, but some increase maybe. Don't know how much my body weight mass is now.

I know I'm losing muscle mass. Can't be this lazy, I need to start training again. Need to plan 3 sessions every week.

I need to go through Reverse Pyramid Training guide, thanks for reminding me.

This will be a wakeup call for me. Lets go again.

Click to expand...

Yes, when you start training up your protein to 150-200 g daily, stay within that range.

3 sessions per week are all you need given you train properly. Yes read the reverse pyramid training guide and follow it and you will have success in building muscle. It's impossible not to. If you wanna learn more about fasting and training read every article on lean gains, it's just 15-20 in total I believe. Well worth your investment.

MosMaster said:

Yes, when you start training up your protein to 150-200 g daily, stay within that range.

3 sessions per week are all you need given you train properly. Yes read the reverse pyramid training guide and follow it and you will have success in building muscle. It's impossible not to. If you wanna learn more about fasting and training read every article on lean gains, it's just 15-20 in total I believe. Well worth your investment.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your feedback.

@MosMaster can you tell me more about what types of food you are eating to stay that lean? No hurry, I'm just somewhat interested. I'm currently eating a lot of pork and vegetables, maybe eating to many potatoes. An air-fryer to prepare the meat would be great.

Bread I have removed. I just eat a little bit sometimes. But when I eat it I feel fat.

MosMaster said:

Wow, you surely got some great strength! 250 kg deads and +100 kg dumbbell rows?! Damn you must be working out in a powerlifter gym

You have a phenomenally great base strength-wise. I don't know your exact goals but if I were you I would get on a simple intermittent fasting protocol (I do 16:8, very simple and effective, been doing it for 10 years and staying lean is super easy this way) and try to eat as healthy as you can because staying on such high fat levels is not optimal for health and longevity. You could for example aim to get to 15% body fat this way and at the same time try to maintain your strength as much as you can and you would look insanely good approaching 15% BF. Also getting leaner have other benefits like optimized hormonal levels and overall well being and of course your "fat pad" would greatly decrease, exposing more penis and PE gains.

You can stay on a similar training regime but probably lower the sets a bit because you will be on lower calories. (IF this is what you want)
To maintain (and even possibly increase) strength I would look into Reverse Pyramid Training it's super effective. The reason I prefer RPT to 5x5 is that it's better for hypertrophy and at the same time you can increase/maintain strength. Here's a great article on it:
The Reverse Pyramid Training Guide - Leangains if you're interested you can read all the articles on this site. It's some of the greatest no bullshit training information I've come across. Martin Berkhan is a training genius and it was him that made intermittent fasting really popular in Sweden. He also built his principles a lot from Arthur Jones that was Mike Mentzers original mentor!

Tell me more about you goals so I could maybe help you further and ask questions if you have. Always fun to help someone who is motivated!

Click to expand...

@hugh-girth; In this post you will find information about IBI (intense, brief, infrequent) training method.

MosMaster said:

What makes you think that? How many grams are you consuming approximately every day on average?

You can maintain and build muscle, even on a caloric deficit, especially if you are overweight, training 2-3 times a week.

Did you read the Reverse Pyramid Training guide? Contains sample schedule which is very good. If you need

Click to expand...

Is the Reverse Pyramid Training guide here on MOS?

huge-girth said:

Is the Reverse Pyramid Training guide here on MOS?

Click to expand...

Outside source/web-page:

This is what @MosMaster gave me.

squirt_inducer_man said:

Outside source/web-page:

The Reverse Pyramid Training Guide - Leangains

My physique and strength are built on Reverse Pyramid Training (RPT). My clients? RPT. In my 19 years of weight training, I’ve tried countless methods, but always revert back to RPT. It’s the most reliable and effective I’ve ever come across. If it wasn’t, I wouldn’t be using it. I’m not married...

leangains.com

This is what @MosMaster gave me.

Click to expand...

Let me save it now for a later read.

Very good hanging routine

@MosMaster, how much do you pull in deadlift in 1RM without a weightlifting belt?

Just curious to know and to compare to, since I have lost some abilities in this exercise. But I believe normal (for most men) is just under 200 kilogram?

This is an important speach from Mike Mentzer.
I have implemented this into my penis enlargement program. Body building and Penis Enlargement is not the same. But I have implemented high intensity training...and it works.