Help Support Animal Rights!

MAXAMEYES said:

Here's a hypothetical question to consider and perhaps reflect a bit more deeply on the subject as I've presented it: Your son, your three year old son is playing in your yard when he is viciously attacked by a stray dog. You try everything you know to get the dog to release your screaming, bleeding son, when you come to the horrific realization that; if the attack does not end immediately your son will die from his wounds.

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I don't think this gets anywhere by trying to compare animals and humans in some respects. Some animal extremists argue that all animals are innocent, in all instances, but your example makes me disagree. Some animals will attack you in situations where others of the same species would not in the same situation. Timothy Treadwell is an prime example of that. Animals do not have the same intellectual capacities that we do, but some are shy, kind, mean, passive, aggressive, etc. They have a remarkable range of emotions and personalities. So, one could argue that in all species you probably have your "good citizens" and "dickheads" for lack of a better way to state it.

REDZULU2003 said:

The cunt had to be took to hospital and we belted eachother with our fists some to make it seem he had attacked us, got our stories sorted and we were fine.

Lets just say he NEVER did it again, was banned for life from keeping pets and received 8 months in prison.

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I like it...the UK's Vic Mackey. lol

At least the guy was a totally deserving asshole from what you describe.

MMM, pass the bacon!

MAXAMEYES said:

Hey Red, if I remember right you're thinking of Hallal (sp?) which is the Islamic counterpart to the Jewish Kosher dietary restrictions. One aspect of each is that an animal must be slaughtered by slitting its throat with the sharpest, most un-blemished blade possible. There are religious aspects to each also, but I'm not all that familiar.
And SWM; your assertion that man is on the top of the food chain? Sorry, INDUSTRY may be on the food chain, but humans?!? Just walk out into Yellowstone National Park with no food or gun....that chain'll shorten up right quick !

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Thats right.

Is it true than that Hallal meat is killed better with more dignity or what?

Since this month I hit the ten year mark as a strict vegetarian I'll chime in here. No, I don't expect the world at large to follow my lifestyle but damn if the world wouldn't be a better place if that were the scenario. The populace majority is ignorant of the fact that the meat industry is a major contributing factor to environmental decline not to mention health problems to the consumer. Ask any expert and they will inform you that the grain protein used as food for livestock far out ways the protein return that the meat produces. Factor in the amount of water and other natural resources that are unnecessarliy wasted and the problem compounds itself exponentionally. Global scientific studies came to this conclusion around the late forties and fifties. It was discovered that if man continued to be a carnivore he would burn out his own species and the planet itself. This is not my opinion, it is documented fact.

From the whole social standpoint that we treat animals the way we do what can I say? Man has lost touch with his own existence and importance if he fails to value ALL the life that is around him. I've had countless experiences where animals have seriously impacted my life. Call me a fool but they have emotion, they have souls. They kill to survive not just for the kill itself. How the hell does that make US the the more highly evolved species? I would put my life on the line for my dogs just as quickly as for my sons. People gave the hurricane victims a lot of crap for refusing to abandon their pets to facilitate their own safety. My hat's off to those brave souls. Their decencey and compasion I hold in the highest regard. I would have done the exact same thing in their shoes. My father bought a doberman when I was around three. He and I were inseperable. I would open his jaws and stick my head in his mouth like a lion trainer. This scared the hell out of my mom and she would always pull me away which is more than understandable. I was never in any danger. He loved me and I loved him. He would later literally save my life when another dog attacked me.

Something else has always stuck with me and most reading this probably won't believe it. When my godfather was a young man he used to be a hunter. One day he was out hunting rabbits. A few hours into the hunt he saw and shot one. The rabbit screamed. Bleeding to death it crawled over to him and curled at his feet whimpering the whole time. There the rabbit died along with part of my godfather's soul. The event tore him apart and he has never hunted since.

There are those who have made light of this thread and nothing I or anyone else says can change their mentallity. They are the majority not the minority. That does not make them right. This is the cancerous derision that will bring man to his downfall. Lastly much respect to you Red for giving that piece of shit what he deserved. You were right. In this world animals can't stick up for themselves. There is nothing better in this world than when good men do the right thing. Society can call me a pussy,tree hugger, hippie, extreme leftist, whatever. I don't give a fuck. I choose to realize there is more to life than myself.

Don't hold Penis EnlargementTA in to high regard

Penis EnlargementTA's Dirty Secret

Hypocrisy is the mother of all credibility problems, and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (Penis EnlargementTA) has it in spades. While loudly complaining about the "unethical" treatment of animals by restaurant owners, grocers, farmers, scientists, anglers, and countless other Americans, the group has its own dirty little secret.

Penis EnlargementTA kills animals. By the thousands.

From July 1998 through the end of 2004, Penis EnlargementTA killed over 12,400 dogs, cats, and other "companion animals" -- at its Norfolk, Virginia headquarters. That's more than five defenseless animals every day. Not counting the dogs and cats Penis EnlargementTA spayed and neutered, the group put to death over 85 percent of the animals it took in during 2003 alone. And its angel-of-death pattern shows no sign of changing.

Year Received† Adopted Killed Transferred % Killed % Adopted
2005 [ 2,145 ][ 146 ][ 1,946 ] [ 69 ] [ 90.7 ] [ 6.8 ]
2004 [ 2,640 ][ 361 ][ 2,278 ] [ 1 ] [ 86.3 ] [ 13.7 ]
2003 [ 2,224 ][ 312 ][ 1,911 ] [ 1 ] [ 85.9 ] [ 14.0 ]
2002 [ 2,680 ][ 382 ][ 2,298 ] [ 2 ] [ 85.7 ] [ 14.3 ]
2001 [ 2,685 ][ 703 ][ 1,944 ] [ 14 ] [ 72.4 ] [ 26.2 ]
2000 [ 2,684 ][ 624 ][ 2,029 ] [ 28 ] [ 75.6 ] [ 23.2 ]
1999 [ 1,805 ][ 386 ][ 1,328 ] [ 91 ] [ 73.6 ] [ 21.4 ]
*1998 [ 943 ] [ 133 ][ 685 ] [ 125 ] [ 72.6 ] [ 14.1 ]
Total [ 17,806 ][ 3,047 ][ 14,419 ] [ 331 ][ 80.1 ] [ 17.1]

* figures represent the second half of 1998 only
† other than spay/neuter animals
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/downloads/PetaKillsAnimals.pdf


On its 2002 federal income-tax return, Penis EnlargementTA claimed a $9,370 write-off for a giant walk-in freezer, the kind most people use as a meat locker or for ice-cream storage. But animal-rights activists don't eat meat or dairy foods. So far, the group hasn't confirmed the obvious -- that it's using the appliance to store the bodies of its victims.

In 2000, when the Associated Press first noted Penis EnlargementTA's Kervorkian-esque tendencies, Penis EnlargementTA president Ingrid Newkirk complained that actually taking care of animals costs more than killing them. "We could become a no-kill shelter immediately," she admitted.

Penis EnlargementTA kills animals. Because it has other financial priorities.

Penis EnlargementTA raked in nearly $29 million last year in income, much of it raised from pet owners who think their donations actually help animals. Instead, the group spends huge sums on programs equating people who eat chicken with Nazis, scaring young children away from drinking milk, recruiting children into the radical animal-rights lifestyle, and intimidating businessmen and their families in their own neighborhoods. Penis EnlargementTA has also spent tens of thousands of dollars defending arsonists and other violent extremists.

Penis EnlargementTA claims it engages in outrageous media-seeking stunts "for the animals." But which animals? Carping about the value of future two-piece dinners while administering lethal injections to puppies and kittens isn't ethical. It's hypocritical -- with a death toll that Penis EnlargementTA would protest if it weren't their own doing.

Penis EnlargementTA kills animals. And its leaders dare lecture the rest of us

My own rant

Do fruit and vegetables feel pain when you tear its reproductive organs off while the plant is still alive??? By getting your food this way it usually means you will be eating the plant's undeveloped young for you nourisHydromaxent!!
JUST A THOUGHT

female animal - fertilization - womb -- baby --- baby animals
tomato plants - pollination - tomatos - tomato seeds - baby tomato plants

Do you see a difference I can't

Animals that are bread for their meat should getter better treatment in their short lives and not be crammed into cages and shitty houses but be cared for better, sure the meat would probably cost more for us who eat it [like myself] but at least one would know that animal wasnt sitting in shit getting mental torture and just waiting for its death ... animals have feelings.

All animals who are going to end up in the pot should in my view get a proper quick dignified and decent death. I dont know exactly what this would be, but cutting throats isnt that to me. Somekind of lethal injection would be ideal which could relax the animal and than slowly collapse its lungs and stop its heart, it wouldnt suffer and would die in peace. Again prices would probably rise for those who want the meat, wouldnt bother me. Also the fact that the drugs might get into our body would prbably rule this method out.

Maybe getting the animals and shooting them one by one in the head on a private site away from all the others so they cant hear the shots in peaceful surroundings is another method?? they are and must be better methods to kill animals that are meant for human consumption.

I will never stop eating meat, I like it but do sometimes wonder what the poor creature went through before it went onto my plate. If these creatures had a nice life while they were waiting for their death and that death was a dignified and non cruel one than maybe more people wouldnt be so against eating meat.

I know that here in the UK, laws are stricter on animal conditions such as Chickens being crammed in their thousands in warehouses waiting for the knife. Only so many can be housed and they must have so much space to move in now.

Quickly back to my story on when I beat that cruel fucker who hurt his 'pets'. Well the sweetest thing for me was hearing his crys for mercy and help ... the tears and the desperation of fear in his eyes and the joy I got seeing him cover his head from my fists hitting his skull. He knew that day what it was like to be a animal victim, and we made him feel the full force of it and I WOULD DO IT AGAIN if I had to. Although I aint a cop anymore, I would do it to someone as I find it in the same league as child abusers and rapists .... animal cruelty to me is in the same league as they are innocent helpless creatures who cant fuckin speak and tell someone anything.

Yeah wreck, I see a difference. Animals aren't fruit. Your comparison is utterly ridiculous. Maybe we shouldn't walk on dirt either...just in case it feels our footsteps. C'mon man, you can't be serious?

nobody said:

Something else has always stuck with me and most reading this probably won't believe it. When my godfather was a young man he used to be a hunter. One day he was out hunting rabbits. A few hours into the hunt he saw and shot one. The rabbit screamed. Bleeding to death it crawled over to him and curled at his feet whimpering the whole time. There the rabbit died along with part of my godfather's soul. The event tore him apart and he has never hunted since.

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I had a teacher in middle school that told me a similar story about a rabbit and he nevered went hunting again. The only thing I personally hunt is deer.

nobody said:

Yeah wreck, I see a difference. Animals aren't fruit. Your comparison is utterly ridiculous. Maybe we shouldn't walk on dirt either...just in case it feels our footsteps. C'mon man, you can't be serious?

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Maybe I'm totally mistaken, but I do believe there have been some studies suggesting that plants may experience a sort of stress when their fruit is picked. I guess there are some individuals that will not eat anything but fruit that has already fallen to the ground, but the term escapes me.

penguinsfan said:

Maybe I'm totally mistaken, but I do believe there have been some studies suggesting that plants may experience a sort of stress when their fruit is picked. I guess there are some individuals that will not eat anything but fruit that has already fallen to the ground, but the term escapes me.

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You are not mistaken. There are also other similiar studies. As I mentioned before though, the comparison of fruit and animal rights is ridiculous. Fruit doesn't care for and raise it's young, maintain life long relationships, or mourn for the loss of family members. Many mammals and birds do. Earlier another member mentioned that some animals at times eat their young. Well sometimes women kill their newborns and children so what's his point of even bringing that up? How many times do you hear newscasts about that as well as men killing their step-children (lion/cub scenario). My point is simply that the animal kingdom and man show amazing parallels with each other. The same arguement cannot be supported about fruit.

One inescapable fact of life is this: If any one individual anything is going to grow it will mean the incorporation and destruction of some other thing. Animals consume animals, animals consume plants, plants consume chemical elements that have been realeased into the environment by everything ranging from chemical interactions in the atmosphere and soil, to bacterial action, all the way up to human beings producing compost and re-fertilizing the soil. At each stage of change, something gives up its individual identity to become part of something else. You can even see this at the atomic level when two gasses, hydrogen and oxygen combine to become water. Even the air we breathe is loaded with countless numbers of living, breathing, reproducing microbes who die, for the most part-unless they make you sick, when you breathe. Digesting anything, even vegetables, kills millions of your own bacteria in your own intestines. So whether anyone wants to realize it or not each of us is engaged in the taking of billions of one celled lives everyday. It's inescapable, we just don't see it. So what types of lives we take and to what extent only encompasses that which we can see and make visual choices about. Many indigineous populations (my own Native American ancestors included) realized this centuries ago and offered prayers to the creatures who had given up their own lives for for the strength and health of the person consuming them. I think that it's this lack of appreciation and respect for the dead and the sacrifice made for our nourisHydromaxent and our continued lives that has caused humanity to lose quite a bit of its humanity. I truly believe that a greater appreciation of our position in and dependence on this unbreakable cycle would help us to much more greatly realize our responsibilities in that cycle.

MAXAMEYES said:

One inescapable fact of life is this: If any one individual anything is going to grow it will mean the incorporation and destruction of some other thing. Animals consume animals, animals consume plants, plants consume chemical elements that have been realeased into the environment by everything ranging from chemical interactions in the atmosphere and soil, to bacterial action, all the way up to human beings producing compost and re-fertilizing the soil. At each stage of change, something gives up its individual identity to become part of something else. You can even see this at the atomic level when two gasses, hydrogen and oxygen combine to become water. Even the air we breathe is loaded with countless numbers of living, breathing, reproducing microbes who die, for the most part-unless they make you sick, when you breathe. Digesting anything, even vegetables, kills millions of your own bacteria in your own intestines. So whether anyone wants to realize it or not each of us is engaged in the taking of billions of one celled lives everyday. It's inescapable, we just don't see it. So what types of lives we take and to what extent only encompasses that which we can see and make visual choices about. Many indigineous populations (my own Native American ancestors included) realized this centuries ago and offered prayers to the creatures who had given up their own lives for for the strength and health of the person consuming them. I think that it's this lack of appreciation and respect for the dead and the sacrifice made for our nourisHydromaxent and our continued lives that has caused humanity to lose quite a bit of its humanity. I truly believe that a greater appreciation of our position in and dependence on this unbreakable cycle would help us to much more greatly realize our responsibilities in that cycle.

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I agree with you on this. I believe that the lifeforce inside living food that we eat such as vegetables or fruit is absorbed into our bodies and gives us energy. When carnivores such as crocs or lions eat meat they absorb the life in it because they don't cook it or store it for long after the animal was killed. Their digestive systems are equipped to get the nutreints into the animals system before they die and become useless. Also, we cook the meat and burn off any active nutrients not to mention the fact that we don't eat the organs, feathers, bones or skin of the animals that we kill which actually contain most of the goodness that a true carnivore, or omnivore, would get from any dead animal.

The problem with humans eating meat is that our systems are not built like that. As I said before our digestive tracts are much more complex and lend themselves to the slow absorbtion of living nutrients (lifeforce) of fruit and vegetables. I have personally undergone a semi personal study of this in action. I ate only what I would consider living foods such as fruit and vegetables in large quantities and without overcooking it. After a week I felt amazing. I lost a lot of body fat but retained good muscle tone and my energy levels were through the roof.

I also slept like a baby and was a lot happier in general. At that time I was also drinking A LOT of pure water. I'm not doing this now because I simply love eating crap. It's like smoking, it's a bad habit, you know that you'd feel better without it but you still can't help yourself.

I'd recomend anyone to try it out but be warned. The first three or four days you will feel worse since your body is clearing out a lot of microtoxins that are usually stored in your organs and bones but have to come out into your blood to drain out of your system. Hence, whilst the microtoxins are in your blood you feel worse but it passes and when it's over you feel better than you have for a long time. If you are interested then eat loads of salad, fruit and vegetables in a huge variety. Eat more than you usually would and eat more frequently. No matter how much you eat you will still lose weight since fat is just our body's way of getting the acidity that is caused by eating meat, etc away from our main organs. i.e. our body fat is just a dumping ground for the acidic waste that our bodies can't deal with.

Yes this is true fruit isn't a animal but it is still alive.It will move toward the sun when repositioned, dies without water or food and reproduces itself.
Where do you draw your line in what is or isn't acceptable to kill. Just because plants don't scream out when you kill them or maybe you just can't here them scream out that makes it OK?

Please understand I'm making light of this subject because I find the argument utterly ridiculous if a rabbit can't be killed because it is alive than why doesn't the same standard go for the poor alive asparagus. If you respect life respect all life


Yes I eat fruit, vegetables and meat I have even kill my share of all three and in noway do I care how anyone else choses to live their lives.
When I do my own killing to feed myself I chose a quick and efficient method. I do so with great respect to life as a hunter/gather.
I chose not have someone else do it for me, can we all claim the same. Is it easier for some to swallow if someone else does the killing is in your name?

WRECK

I would have thought someone would have guessed the major difference between plants and animals -- brain and nervous system

wreck said:

Yes this is true fruit isn't a animal but it is still alive.It will move toward the sun when repositioned, dies without water or food and reproduces itself.
Where do you draw your line in what is or isn't acceptable to kill. Just because plants don't scream out when you kill them or maybe you just can't here them scream out that makes it OK?

Please understand I'm making light of this subject because I find the argument utterly ridiculous if a rabbit can't be killed because it is alive than why doesn't the same standard go for the poor alive asparagus. If you respect life respect all life


Yes I eat fruit, vegetables and meat I have even kill my share of all three and in noway do I care how anyone else choses to live their lives.
When I do my own killing to feed myself I chose a quick and efficient method. I do so with great respect to life as a hunter/gather.
I chose not have someone else do it for me, can we all claim the same. Is it easier for some to swallow if someone else does the killing is in your name?

WRECK

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I respect all life but my point still seems to elude you. You can honestly say that taking the life of a rabbit is the same as eating asparagus? It is extremely difficult if not impossible to have a constructive arguement/discussion if that is your mind set which it seems to be. I care how others live their lives because there is a direct impact on mine. It's like second hand smoke but on a global scale. As I mentioned already the meat industry has an extremely negative impact on the environment. I live on this planet too but I have to pay the price for society's unnecessary indulgence. Aside from the cruelty and straight out torture that these animals are subjected to you have to remember that a high level of meat in your diet over a lifetime will lead to disease down the road. Everbody can shrug this statement off now but when you reach your sixties and your body is bloated with cancers, diabetes, high blood pressure, and all that other good stuff then maybe just maybe you will look at vegetarians and vegans in a whole new light but by then it will be too late.

I don't want someone to come at me with some bs like,"Well my grampa grew up on a farm, had steak every night and lived to be hundred." That was a different time with a different quality in meat. One last thing and I'll shut the fuck up. Many vegetarians and vegans have had to be hospitalized after accidentally ingesting meat. This usually only occurs if the person has not had any meat for quite sometime, like myself for instance at ten years now. The human body will actually treat meat as a foreign body and a poison, sending the body into shock. This doesn't happen to everyone and I don't plan on giving it the old college try anytime soon. The fact that our bodies are programmed like that should tell you something.

And then there are those pesky Aleuts. Who have lived, and thrived, for centuries above the Arctic Circle living on a diet almost exclusively consisting of meat and fat with very little or no vegetation/carbohydrate intake whatsoever. Yet, again, they had deep, spiritual respect for the prey they consumed and realized that, in Nature, the difference between predator and prey is at times a very fluid distinction.

Here's a fascinating article written over sixty years ago about one explorers experience with the Inuit lifestyle and the dietary experiment stemming from it.

http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm

Very informative and quite interesting.

I think the Inuit example you just gave is a fascinating example. Very interesting stuff!

I don't want to open up a can of worms but you have to realize that there are abuses in all aspects of the world. But they are the exceptions usually. I grew up on a farm and in the outdoors. Hunting, fishing, and farming. Of all of the killing or slaughtering of animals, fish, birds, cows, hogs, deer, turkeys, chickens, etc. that I have seen, none have been cruel or torcherous. I have even been in local slaughter houses and none treat the animals bad. All are just quick humane kills. What you have seen probably only happens a fraction of a percent of the time. These things can get blown way out of proportion. But I don't believe in the torcher of animals in the killing process. They should be killed quickly. Just the truth.

That was an interesting read MAXAMEYES. My mother was an archeologist and traveled in many related circles such as anthropolgy so I was a liitle familiar with this already. The longevity issue seemed to be a corcern among her and her colleages as well. Again it is also worth noting the axe I am grinding in this thread is that it was a different time then, our planet was still pure so to speak. You are also talking about fish vs. redmeat. I strongly feel that fish is entirely more suited to sound health than any type of red meat. The problem with that is man himself. There are too many of us for this sphere. Our oceans grow more polluted with each passing day to the detriment of it's inhabitants. You always hear about the ever rising degree of mercury in many types of fish but there are many other toxins as well. The fish populations around the world are not only declining because of these pollutants. Commericial fishing has severly crippled their ability to reproduce.

Even as a vegetarian I am not immune to these adverse effects. With produce I have pesticides, industrial run off, and acid rain to deal with. I try to buy organic as much as possible but it is very expensive. I just don't feel that my level of exposure is at all comparable to those who eat meat. I am very healthy and quite active.

When people first find out that I am a vegtarian they always get this perplexed look on their face. People have this misconception that if you don't eat meat you will become a weak anemic beanpole. I've really let my exercise regimen slip these past several years but not because I can't physically handle it, I simply let my lifestyle change when I got married three years ago. I'm getting back into the swing of things though. Getting involved in pe is what actually got me inspired. Self improvement is like a cancer, it just spreads.

Lastly I want to make it clear when I say that as a vegetarian I am perfectly capable of the same level of physical activity and prowness of any other athlete. I started running marathons when I was in the Corps. not as a competition just on my own. I've done this when I lived in Phoenix,AZ during the peak of summer. I do lift weights as well but I prefer the old standbys like pull ups, push ups, climbing rope, etc. For those of you with military backgrounds tell me that the the old "O" course is not an awesome tool for hardcore training. I used to love to run for an hour or so and hit that bitch at least 4-5 times back to back. I wish civilian parks had those. Some asshole would probably break his leg and sue the city or some pussy ass shit like that. Oh well, thanks to all those who take the time to read this and even if you don't agree with me I respect the fact you took time and effort to voice your opinions on this thread.