Steroids

The study is saying that without hcg, the subjects were suppressed by 94% which means they were only producing 6% of what they did before they became suppressed.

Post treatment, the results were as follows:

Those taking 125iu EOD was 25% less than baseline or producing 75% of what they did before suppression.

Those taking 250iu EOD was 7%less than baseline or producing 93% of what they did before suppression.

Those taking 500iu EOD was 26% GREATER than baseline or they were producing 26% more ITT that what they did before before suppression.
 
.....so in short, those taking hcg post treatment benefitted by still producing near base line levels of testosterone. while the group WITHOUT hcg had a decrease in 94% testosterone production. so what does hcg suppress?
 
The tests were done post treatment meaning that the blood work was done after the study group had completed 3 weeks of test PLUS the hcg or placebo.
 
Because HCG is an LH analogue, the body thinks it's procuding too much and suppresses its release from the Pituitary. Since this is already suppressed from the exogenous test, it's a moot point. The fact is that once you stop taking the HCG your test levels will drop off again until the hypothalamus and pituitary begin to produce sufficient GnRH and LH/FSH levels. The recovery for H and P are much faster than the testes so HCG can improve recovery but while you are on it, it causes suppression so you can not fully recover.
 
EVO said:
...sorry but i want to get this right incase i ever decide to go back on them....
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You mean to tell me you've done cycles without even knowing how it affects your endocrine system?? When guys like you screw themselves with up AAS and/or other hormones, the rest of the bodybuilding world takes the heat...
 
information about steroids to me going back 2 years ago was basically word of mouth. i didnt have access to internet so didnt know any better. someone says " ive had good results with this" and you take it. actually about 80% of people i know who have used steroids dont know anything about pct. besides not all info on internet is 100% all the time - it is easy to get confused or mixed up.
 
I never blindly believe in anything that someone says unless it can be backed up by science (Penis Enlargement included)... This is why i read and post studies to prove my claims. The info about anything and everything in available in books or online if you just look for it. I've used AAS on and off since the early to mid 90's and i was able to learn all this stuff back then.
 
Steroids aren't worth it. I have plenty of info to back up if someone forces me to explain.

Once you get off of steroids, you shrink. No matter what anyone tells you.
 
swolejah said:
Steroids aren't worth it. I have plenty of info to back up if someone forces me to explain.

Once you get off of steroids, you shrink. No matter what anyone tells you.
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PCT....
 
swolejah said:
Steroids aren't worth it. I have plenty of info to back up if someone forces me to explain.

Once you get off of steroids, you shrink. No matter what anyone tells you.
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Why do you think they are not worth it?

Depends what you mean by shrink,alot of lads who use gear mistake water retention as muscle gain,when you finish a cycle you will loose the water bloat and with that some size but if pct is done correctly you can maintain muscle gains off cycle,there is of course only so much size each individual can carry on there frame naturally so once you get past that point gains will be nigh on impossible to keep.
 
They are for wimps. I've been lifting for 6 years and do fine without them. Why depend on a drug to get you huge? Real men don't use roids.
 
swolejah said:
They are for wimps. I've been lifting for 6 years and do fine without them. Why depend on a drug to get you huge? Real men don't use roids.
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Well, i guess 90% of all amateur and pro BB'ers as well as most if not all College and NFL players are all wimps cuz they rely on AAS to get huge... Wow, at only 18yo you're more of a man than all of them. :banghead:
 
Never did I say I was more of a man than all of them.

And I knew someone was going to say that about the bodybuilders, someone always does and I believe it's a lousy thing to mention. The more people accept steroids the more it will likely become more common among teens and individuals.

Still, why would you depend on a drug? Bodybuilding and weights aren't about taking steroids and seeing who can get the biggest and have the most muscle separation. Also notice that alot of those guys look similar only in that they are massive and ripped. If nobody took them and they start caring more about testing for them in IFBB, I believe it would be more of a challenge.

Have you ever seen Ronnie's videos, Jay's video's, and Markus Ruhl's?
 
swolejah said:
Never did I say I was more of a man than all of them.
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no, but you insinuated that real men don't use AAS... since you don't use AAS then you must be a real man and everyone else who uses isn't...

And I knew someone was going to say that about the bodybuilders, someone always does and I believe it's a lousy thing to mention. The more people accept steroids the more it will likely become more common among teens and individuals.
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It's a personal choice like drugs, sex, and the music you listen to... just because they don't agree with you doesn't make them less of a man. And for the record, calling AAS users less of a man is just plain ignorant and does little to dissuade people from using it. If you want to make a difference, try using a convincing arguemnt like it's side effects to make your point and convince people from using it.

Still, why would you depend on a drug? Bodybuilding and weights aren't about taking steroids and seeing who can get the biggest and have the most muscle separation. Also notice that alot of those guys look similar only in that they are massive and ripped. If nobody took them and they start caring more about testing for them in IFBB, I believe it would be more of a challenge.
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Get real bro... if they didn't take steroids to get big then they wouldn't take it at all. You think the pros take it because they like the pimples, receding hairline, and all the other side effects?? Grow up and smell the coffee...

The IFBB doesn't enforce the testing for steroids because the fans want to see they pros get bigger every year. They want to see freaks not average joe's...

Have you ever seen Ronnie's videos, Jay's video's, and Markus Ruhl's?
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Yea, i have so what?? If you knew a little more about BB'ing, you'd be able to watch videos of each and and see a big difference between them.
 
swolejah said:
Never did I say I was more of a man than all of them.

And I knew someone was going to say that about the bodybuilders, someone always does and I believe it's a lousy thing to mention. The more people accept steroids the more it will likely become more common among teens and individuals.

Still, why would you depend on a drug? Bodybuilding and weights aren't about taking steroids and seeing who can get the biggest and have the most muscle separation. Also notice that alot of those guys look similar only in that they are massive and ripped. If nobody took them and they start caring more about testing for them in IFBB, I believe it would be more of a challenge.

Have you ever seen Ronnie's videos, Jay's video's, and Markus Ruhl's?
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Whys it a lousy thing to mention,should we keep deluding people that its possible to build a mr O type physique naturally,steroid use is already wide spread amongst teenagers.

Bodybuilding wether natural or drug assisted IS about who can get the biggest and most muscle seperation.

If you took peds out of the IFBB it would cease to exist,the fans who pay to go to the shows are the hardcore and they want to see big mass monsters,they don't want to see 12-13 stone naturals.

Yes ive seen some of those videos and your point is what?
 
Steroids are a crutch, just like bench shirts. I don't care what anybody says, or what kind of PCT you use, you are going to lose your gains once you come off the juice. I personally know at least 5 guys who shrunk as fast as Mario after getting hit by Bowser. Does it always happen that fast? No. You may hold on to them for a minute, but you won't for long.
Unless you are pro bodybuilder, in the WWE, or the NFL. 'roids are pretty much a waste of your time. You aren't going to get back any of the money you shelled out for them, and you aren't going to keep what you got from them. What cracks me up is all the 'Roidboys, 50 or 60 lbs heavier than me, using the same or less weight than I am, and I don't even take a protein supplement right now. I just keep a well-balanced diet, with a little extra protein.
It is pretty silly to try and get ppl to believe that you can become a shredded-up 245 lb. behemoth without drugs. A personal choice it may be, like music, but listening to your music versus someone else's doesn't give you a bigass advantage over them. As for BB'ing, yeah, a few of them look distinctive but many starting to run together, just like the fitness models. "Skinny chic with implants #1, # 2 or #3?"
As for side effeects, well that depends. If you can afford the best stuff, you won't have as many to deal with, and counteracting them won't be a problem. Unless you can't stick yourself and decide to pickle your liver with orals. The physical stuff won't be too bad, but I have heard of some pros who now have so much scar tissue they can barely walk(no names mentioned there). But the ex-users I know say that the worst part is the psychological effect of being a sliver of what they were on the drugs.
 
I dont juice, I am against it. But if you run a pct of say clen, nolva, and clomid (and maybe creatine) you should keep the majority of your gains.
 
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