Can anyone tell me a good amount about roids? I am considering doing them. I want to bulk, not cut. They will also give me strength increases too, right? What about the side effects? I know a couple of old heads around my way who became monsters from them. But they always had real oily faces and BAD acne. Do all steroids give you acne? I have mild acne and a very oily complexion as it is. Is there any way to counter it? Will it shrink my balls or fuck with my erections AT ANY TIME? And what about mood changes? I have anxiety and depression as it is. I always here about health risks but I've heard that the truth is that if you don't overdo it they are actually very healthy for you.
Info on roids?
Before you even think of using AAS you need to have your training and diet spot on,you should have a few years of solid training under your belt and be at least 21,if your diet and training are not right you will gain very little.
here are a couple of links that might be of help.
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-beginners-steroids-faq.asp
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-steroid-chemistry.asp
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/clomid-hcg.asp
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-steroid-half-life.asp
here are a couple of links that might be of help.
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-beginners-steroids-faq.asp
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-steroid-chemistry.asp
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/clomid-hcg.asp
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-steroid-half-life.asp
Those are good links to start with. There's ALOT to learn about gear, it will take some time. Also read the profiles of the various steroids here, there's alot of valuable and necessary info:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catsteroids.htm
Most importantly, learn how to inject properly. Nothing is more dangerous with using gear than screwing up your injections. This site is the standard:
www.spotinjections.com
Try to read up on steroid forums as well. This will give you some 'real-world' info, what people are actually experiencing.
www.anabolex.com
www.elitefitness.com
www.steroidology.com
One more tip, focus on learning about sides and PCT. Gaining with gear is simple, it's avoiding the side effects that takes smart careful planning.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catsteroids.htm
Most importantly, learn how to inject properly. Nothing is more dangerous with using gear than screwing up your injections. This site is the standard:
www.spotinjections.com
Try to read up on steroid forums as well. This will give you some 'real-world' info, what people are actually experiencing.
www.anabolex.com
www.elitefitness.com
www.steroidology.com
One more tip, focus on learning about sides and PCT. Gaining with gear is simple, it's avoiding the side effects that takes smart careful planning.
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The first question that most people will ask is how old you are... If you're in your teens, your best bet is to wait 'til your in your early 20's before starting.Jason1 said:
There's alot of different types of gear that can be used for bulking. Generally speaking, bulking type of gear are aromatizable gear. This means that alot of the gains are derived from estrogen related bloat. This give you fast gains in size and strength, but the down side is that you tend to lose alot of the gains post cycle.
Of all the gear, test is best and should be the base of every cycle. A good first cycle is a test only cycle.
Don't forget, gear is only an enhancement to a sound diet and exercize. If you don't know enough about diet and exercize to control you're body composition and be able to gain and/or lose weight, then you're not ready for gear and will only be throwing money away.
There are alot of sides: bloat, gyno (aka bitch tits), acne, testacle shrinkage, moodiness, increase/decrease libido, liver problems, etc... you can mitigate sides, but you can't completely eliminate them.
Each person is different so not everyone will experience all the sides but if you're predisposed to something like acne, gear use will aggravate it.
What you should really do is research and read about it as much as you can. Go to different message boards and just read and ask questions. Only you can decide if the risks are worth the potential rewards.
You guys that take steroids "recreationally" are nuts. There is absolutely no reason for it unless you are currently a competitive athlete or bodybuilder. Even in that case, you still shouldn't be sacrificing your health and perhaps many years off your life unless you are (or have the potential to be) an elite, world-class athlete/bodybuilder. And even in that case, it's still ethically and morally WRONG.
You guys don't realize the damage you are doing to your bodies. Anabolic steroids have dramatic side-effects, including seriously damaging health effects in the long-term. Just my opinion, take it or leave it. End of lecture.
You guys don't realize the damage you are doing to your bodies. Anabolic steroids have dramatic side-effects, including seriously damaging health effects in the long-term. Just my opinion, take it or leave it. End of lecture.
Youve gotten some good advice on the above post. Just one more thing--roids magnify everything not just your muscles. If you have a big ego--the mother fucker is unbearably huge while on gear. Unbearable for those around you at least. If you have anxiety or depression, consider them doubled. If that doesnt hit you on cycle, it will certainly hit you when you come off. If you have an abusive mouth- it will go over the top. Really think everybody advice over well. Ive seen a lot more people have mental health problems from gear than I have seen have physical problem from it.
joeym said:
Are you speaking from a bad experience?
I've had NO problems... and wish I had done them 10 years ago when I first wanted to. Most of the crap you just mentioned is a result of someone not knowing jack about what they are doing. Sorta like Penis Enlargement without a forum.
But... that is you opinion.
stumpy said:
You hit it dead on with the mental side effects part. I haven't done real gear, but I did a couple of short 1-AD cycles over a year ago, and both times I got incredibly depressed and literally lost my zest for life. I also lost all sexual functioning. It was an indescribably horrible feeling. The physical side effects apart from the dead boner were pretty minimal (bloated face, a few zits here and there etc), but the psychological ones, which were never mentioned on the label OR the site from which I ordered them, were something else. Seeing as I only did short cycles I returned to normal withing a few days after I finished with them, though.
Anyway, I wouldn't recommend you fuck around with steroids until you have amassed a TON of knowledge on their proper use.
I have to note just one thing and one thing only, not mentioned untill now.
But first let me tell you the outright truth on the standard anti-steroid info. Almost all of those moral, health or legal problems they advertise are false. The odds of anything truly bad happening on steroids (that you can't handle anyway) are almost zero.
BUT
I found that 95% of people that use roids would have never started using them if they knew this one thing. About the same amount of people who are considering doing them would decide NO --I will not use steroids--
........You WILL lose all the muscle you get with steroids........
Let me guess... The idea that you had was something along these lines - "I know its harmfull, illegal and could land me in jail or disgrace me infront of my family and friends, but... I'm not gonna use them forever or to get too big. I will just do them once to achieve my goal and look like [insert favorite fitness model here].
The trouble here is that... Once you come off and the body reverts to its normal hormonal situation, it will no longer be able to sustain that muscle. You will not lose it at once (provided correct PCT was done), but in the long term (1.5 to 2 years). You will get right back to square 1, to where you were before you used them. Do you really want to waste 2 years of your life!? So here you are... you're starting to lose some of your new cheated muscle... you can either wise-up decide you'll be patient and gain it back naturally, OR blame it on yourself (like most steroid users do) and do steroids again.
This turns into a never ending cycle where you end always upping your dosages and doing it more and more often until the point where health consequences are real.
I will not tell you NOT to use them. I will advise you not to. The truth is you really "could" if you educate yourself find a way to use them rarely enough so they're like a supplement, yet enough to provide fast results. The chances of you being able to pull this off are about the same as you reaching DLD. It's possible and you can do it, but are you willing to invest the time?
As with most things where there's such a high separation in two groups...the truth is in the middle. Both the pro-steroid and the anti-steroid guys are going to extremes to convince you that
One steroid cycle will make you die
/or/
Using steroids is like supplementing vitamin C
There is no middle ground between using and not using though. So use your brain.
But first let me tell you the outright truth on the standard anti-steroid info. Almost all of those moral, health or legal problems they advertise are false. The odds of anything truly bad happening on steroids (that you can't handle anyway) are almost zero.
BUT
I found that 95% of people that use roids would have never started using them if they knew this one thing. About the same amount of people who are considering doing them would decide NO --I will not use steroids--
........You WILL lose all the muscle you get with steroids........
Let me guess... The idea that you had was something along these lines - "I know its harmfull, illegal and could land me in jail or disgrace me infront of my family and friends, but... I'm not gonna use them forever or to get too big. I will just do them once to achieve my goal and look like [insert favorite fitness model here].
The trouble here is that... Once you come off and the body reverts to its normal hormonal situation, it will no longer be able to sustain that muscle. You will not lose it at once (provided correct PCT was done), but in the long term (1.5 to 2 years). You will get right back to square 1, to where you were before you used them. Do you really want to waste 2 years of your life!? So here you are... you're starting to lose some of your new cheated muscle... you can either wise-up decide you'll be patient and gain it back naturally, OR blame it on yourself (like most steroid users do) and do steroids again.
This turns into a never ending cycle where you end always upping your dosages and doing it more and more often until the point where health consequences are real.
I will not tell you NOT to use them. I will advise you not to. The truth is you really "could" if you educate yourself find a way to use them rarely enough so they're like a supplement, yet enough to provide fast results. The chances of you being able to pull this off are about the same as you reaching DLD. It's possible and you can do it, but are you willing to invest the time?
As with most things where there's such a high separation in two groups...the truth is in the middle. Both the pro-steroid and the anti-steroid guys are going to extremes to convince you that
One steroid cycle will make you die
/or/
Using steroids is like supplementing vitamin C
There is no middle ground between using and not using though. So use your brain.
Alek said:
Good post.
AleK, that is the unfortunate truth only because most people don't have their diet squared away before, during, and especially after their steroid cycle. Most poeple eat like crap and think they're doing OK because they decided to cut a little fat or carbs out of their diet. Sorry, but that's not good enough. Then they start doing steroids and think they're doing OK because they add a little more protein while they're on. Then they get off steroids and go right back to the way they ate before thinking that their old crappy diet is going to sustain the added muscle mass, WRONG!! Fact is, diet is 80% for bodybuilding and most people can make great gains and keep them as long as they ate the right foods and ate enough of it. If one was to gain 10lbs of muscle from steroids, that person MUST increase his/her calories as his/her metabolism is no longer what it was before the muscle mass. It's simple math, in order to keep your existing muscle mass, Calories consumed must be equal or greater than calories burned.
Just because your body goes back to it's normal hormonal level doesn't mean that you should expect to lose your gains as you don't need more hormones because you have more muscle. The additional hormones is to encourage anabolism which will in turn creates muscle hypertrophy. Once you have the mass that you want, it's diet that will allow you to sustain it, not more hormones. C'mon it's really common sense and the same as for the person who wants to get big without steroids, if you want to put on more muscle you have to eat more. The better your diet is, the better your body looks.
One more thing about steroids gains is that alot of the gains from steroids are from bloat due to estrogen. Approximately 90% of the estrogen found in males is from the conversion of test to estrogen (aromatization). As you increase test levels, estrogen levels go up as well. This increased estrogen promotes several side effects, one of which is bloat. Bloat will make you big very quickly and will also allow for an increase in strength. The problem with bloat is that it is one of the first thing to go away once you end your cycle. So there goes alot of your size and strength gains. You can control aromatization to reduce/eliminate an estrogen spike and therefore eliminate bloat. By doing this, your gains won't be as pronounced but will be much more keepable after the cycle is over. This is what's called lean or dry gains and should be what the average joe strives for when doing steroids. This takes knowledge and planning, unfortunately this is something most guys just aren't willing to do.
Just because your body goes back to it's normal hormonal level doesn't mean that you should expect to lose your gains as you don't need more hormones because you have more muscle. The additional hormones is to encourage anabolism which will in turn creates muscle hypertrophy. Once you have the mass that you want, it's diet that will allow you to sustain it, not more hormones. C'mon it's really common sense and the same as for the person who wants to get big without steroids, if you want to put on more muscle you have to eat more. The better your diet is, the better your body looks.
One more thing about steroids gains is that alot of the gains from steroids are from bloat due to estrogen. Approximately 90% of the estrogen found in males is from the conversion of test to estrogen (aromatization). As you increase test levels, estrogen levels go up as well. This increased estrogen promotes several side effects, one of which is bloat. Bloat will make you big very quickly and will also allow for an increase in strength. The problem with bloat is that it is one of the first thing to go away once you end your cycle. So there goes alot of your size and strength gains. You can control aromatization to reduce/eliminate an estrogen spike and therefore eliminate bloat. By doing this, your gains won't be as pronounced but will be much more keepable after the cycle is over. This is what's called lean or dry gains and should be what the average joe strives for when doing steroids. This takes knowledge and planning, unfortunately this is something most guys just aren't willing to do.
joeym said:
I understand it being your opinion, but I've heard under the right supervision it can be useful/beneficial. That said, the member asking about it clearly should not get on it unless he is a competitor or world class athlete and yes even then it is a question that is there as to whether or not to do it. However, it being a moral issue. Nah, not in the way it sounds like you are using it. It doesn't affect you or much of society in a way. It is a choice to make and if you fuck up then it's on you and perhaps your doctor if you have one to guide you through it all, but I'd say if you want to call it a moral issue you'd have to look at as it is a personal moral. Perhaps you could say risking permanent damage to your own body in hope of gaining muscle or whatever is vain. But we are all selfish creatures to many degrees. It depends on who you ask. The person he needs to ask is himself, which he has undoubtedly done. It's his body. It's his choice and he's asking for help and you're offering it. I just thought it really has nothing to do with morals so much as health. I mean it is up to him to judge what he thinks is right and wrong. I don't even consider it to look down on someone who does steriods. It's a moral issue on a right and wrong basis, but not on a character basis.
Unfortunately skidogg I am talking in terms of lean gains and nothing else 
--- Steroid induced lean muscle gains are always lost in the long term ---
The keyword here is "long - term", ok its two words
. So even some of the most advances steroid users are unaware of this fact for the simple reason they haven't been off for more than a year. From those who have decided to quit steroids forever, not a single one has been able to keep his gains in the long-term. By that I mean not a single one person EVER. It didn't matter how hard they pushed themselves, how good their PCT, how good their diet. Never! They always end up at (or below) their natural level. This is why I mentioned the blaming part, most will blame themselves, and so will other steroid users. "he didn't do good enough PCT, diet..." THIS IS A TRAP. This is where one enters a long cycle of Steroids - loss - blame - steroids - loss until finally after many years they wise up, they all eventually do.
The only known exceptions are when pros retire, where they end up a just a bit higher than their pre-steroid level. Speaking of pros... That's a good example of people who know exactly what they're doing, and you couldn't blame for not training well enough to keep the gains. Yet not even a single one in history has been able to keep his steroid gains.
Sorry dogg. It sucks I know, but its the truth. And to tell you the truth its the only reason i'm not gonna be using... ever. If it weren't true i'd be the first one to go around educating proper usage to people. If it weren't true I could educate clients/friends on proper use so they can all just get the body they want in a matter of months! Then I'd educate them on proper natural maintaining for life and everyone would be happy! However... this... is... not... wonderland. It's the real world. And in it steroid gains are NEVER kept.
I was shattered and in denial when first learning this. I literally spent hours upon hours researching and asking around to prove it wrong... I couldn't.
--- Steroid induced lean muscle gains are always lost in the long term ---
The keyword here is "long - term", ok its two words
. So even some of the most advances steroid users are unaware of this fact for the simple reason they haven't been off for more than a year. From those who have decided to quit steroids forever, not a single one has been able to keep his gains in the long-term. By that I mean not a single one person EVER. It didn't matter how hard they pushed themselves, how good their PCT, how good their diet. Never! They always end up at (or below) their natural level. This is why I mentioned the blaming part, most will blame themselves, and so will other steroid users. "he didn't do good enough PCT, diet..." THIS IS A TRAP. This is where one enters a long cycle of Steroids - loss - blame - steroids - loss until finally after many years they wise up, they all eventually do. The only known exceptions are when pros retire, where they end up a just a bit higher than their pre-steroid level. Speaking of pros... That's a good example of people who know exactly what they're doing, and you couldn't blame for not training well enough to keep the gains. Yet not even a single one in history has been able to keep his steroid gains.
Sorry dogg. It sucks I know, but its the truth. And to tell you the truth its the only reason i'm not gonna be using... ever. If it weren't true i'd be the first one to go around educating proper usage to people. If it weren't true I could educate clients/friends on proper use so they can all just get the body they want in a matter of months! Then I'd educate them on proper natural maintaining for life and everyone would be happy! However... this... is... not... wonderland. It's the real world. And in it steroid gains are NEVER kept.
I was shattered and in denial when first learning this. I literally spent hours upon hours researching and asking around to prove it wrong... I couldn't.
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I agree with you if you're talking about advanced BB'ers and/or competitive BB'ers where they've gained huge amounts of mass thru AAS use. But for the typical joe who hasn't gone beyond his natural limit in terms of size then i disagree. I do believe that we all have a natural limit in terms of muscle size that we cannot go beyond without AAS. Most people that go on steroids are not even close to their natural limit so in those cases, i disagree with you.
Do you know of any studies that support your claim??
Do you know of any studies that support your claim??
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sikdogg said:
You do realize that the official position of clinical medicine is that steroids have no effect on muscle mass don't you? :hammering
Like I said, I didn't want to beleive it myself, and was in denial for some time. What I did however was go and talk to ex-roid users. I talked to about 40 guys in the local bodybuilding circles, everything from ex pros to ex recreational users.
Then I did alot of asking and searching for answers online on forums, and asked whoever mentioned having used in the past. The results were the same. Whether it was a person who never gained a single pound naturally and only used them to reach his potential sooner or a person who was a natural monster and used to get even bigger. Results were the same...
Now think.. Just think... Do you think you can use steroids and have the benefits forever? Wouldn't that make testing in the olympics and sports useless? Athletes could just use them once and be faster/stronger forever.
Sorry dude. The truth sucks.
If that's true then they're idiots cuz there are hundreds of studies that prove otherwise, just doing a simple search on PubMed will prove this.Alek said:
Basically, you're basing your belief from a result of an informal survey?? That's anecdotal evidence at best... I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but i have my doubts. Since i don't plan on stopping AAS use for another year or so, so i can't confirm or deny you claims. Maybe once i stop i will be able confirm or deny your theory first hand. Until then, i'm a little hesitent to jump on your bandwagon unless you can post some study supporting this.
Another point i'd like to make is that most serious BB'ers also use GH and recently IGF-1. Both of these compounds are able to create new muscle cells thru hyperplasia. This means that people are now able to go beyond their genetics in terms of size and strength. This is different from from hypertrophy that AAS is known for. AAS is only able to enlarge one's muscle cell, not produce more. The hyperplasia properties of IGF/GH IS supported by several clinical studies. This alone should be enough to make a person bigger than what he was before he started.
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sikdogg said:
Dude... You don't expect nature journal to conduct a formal survey on the topic of "Study of whether horny teenagers keep their beach muscles post-AAS". I am not basing it on the fact that most roid users said this... I am basing on the fact that every single one said it. I am basing on the fact that every single steroids guru will admit it once pushed to. No matter how informal, 100% is pretty conclusive.
This is exactly what I said. Most current steroid users fit this pattern. Rarely does one go for more than 1-1.5 years without AAS.
That is very true. These new compounds are known to increase your genetic potential. This is why today we have 220 pound "naturals" at 3% bf. What is important to mention is that unlike with AAS, the health hazards of insulin, GH and IGF-1 are TREMENDOUS and very real.
You do realize there is actually a valid study proving the effectivness of just about every crap supplement out there? Which ofcourse does nothing in the real world. You also realize that there are no studies proving why for example one style of training is better than another, yet in the real world it is? What does that tell you about studies? All you have to do to prove this wrong is find one person, just ONE person (out of the millions who've used) that has managed to keep steroid gains. Just ONE. No studies will be needed than.
Look. I respect (knowleadgeable AAS users) alot. And you definetely seem to be one. So if someone should ask me if skidogg should use, I would answer in a heartbeat YES, without hesitation. Because he knows what he's doing and its his choice, he's aware of all the facts.
What I'm trying to establish here is to let newbies know the truth. Steroids won't kill you. Infact, if you do it right they'll probably improve your life in many ways. BUT, I also want to let them know that you will NOT keep the muscle, it will not get you to your goal faster, it will actually slow you down in the longer run if you don't plan using them until you die. So I want to make sure that people actually are aware of this fact. If they are aware of it and still decide to use, then I'm all for it. It's their choice.
Like I said both sides (steroid and anti-steroid) will go to extreme lengthts to prove a point. What I beleive is that people are intelligent enough to make a decison themselves, and for that the facts should be shown. Steroid gurus should start telling people this fact, and anti-steroid folks should stop lying to people.
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What's your ultimate goal Not so much concerned with weight but on overall appearance. I'll be very happy if i can hold on to 200lbs at ~8% bodyfat. I'm currently at 185-190lbs @ 14% bodyfat. I've been up to 220lbs but my diet was crap and bodyfat was around 20% so i did a good cutter this past summer and got it down to 14%. It funny that at a lower BF, guys are asking me what i'm taking cuz i look bigger. This time around i'm not going for a hardcore bulking cycle, but more a lean mass cycle. I figure i can get 3, maybe 4 more cycles in '05 before quitting. If i eat well and plan my cycles well, i should be able to continue losing BF as i put on more mass. I know that trying to do both at the same time is generally not recommended, but since i plan on running GH and IGF-1 it shouldn't be a problem.
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.Key sikdogg keep us informed on your cycles, how BB is going for you, and HG/IGF-1 deal. Maybe keep a BB log in the BB forum, I am interested, and wanna see a year or so down the road once your off roids and GH and have been natural for 1 year (if u ever do that) what your stats will be.
Some lose muscle quicker then others. Some lose so slowly, it's negligible.
I'm one of the lucky ones that kept gains from years later, but If I cut 'naked',
I go into a catabolic nightmare.
I'm one of the lucky ones that kept gains from years later, but If I cut 'naked',
I go into a catabolic nightmare.