(?)Harmonic's Revenge: Getting Ripped

H

harmonic169

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As I'm sure many of you know at this point, I found my motivation: Revenge. Sure, it's not healthy, but it's motivation. Okay, so to be fair, it's not really revenge so much as.... no, it's revenge. :P So part of that is that I want to get in the best shape I can possibly be in, which of course means gaining muscle and losing weight. So I'll ask the first question:

Can I lose fat while gaining muscle?

I'm fairly certain that I've heard that the answer to that is no, because there has to be a caloric excess in order to build muscle; I just wasn't sure if there was an exception to that rule. We'll assume that the answer to said question is 'No.', which leads to the next question:

Since I'm not going to be able to lose fat AND build muscle, I'm going to have to go through a bulking and a cutting phase, correct?

How long should I do each if I want to be able to see my abs by this time next year? (By which I suppose I'm really asking: How long does it take to get 'cut' or 'ripped' after a bulking phase?

Next: If I want to put on muscle, what should my caloric intake consist of? I know that I'm supposed to get around 1g/lb of protein... I currently weigh 215, so 215g of protien per day (Ouch, that's spooky!), protien has 4 calories per gram, so I'm looking to get around 860 calories worth of protein a day, or about 43% of my caloric intake (Based on a 2,000 calorie a day diet.) I'm asuming that fat and carbohydrates should be split pretty evenly among the other 57%, sooo..... 28.5% Fat, 28.5% Carbohydrates..... Which means, ummm..... 570 calories of Fat, or 63 and 1/3 grams; and 570 calories of carbohydrates, or 142.5g. So, to put that in Simple table form!!

2,000 Calories a day
43%/215g/860cal Protein
28.5%/63.3g/570cal Fats
28.5%/142.5g/570cal Carbohydrates

Sound good?

Other stuff too, of course. Eight hours of sleep a night, alternate weight and cardio days with two days off. 1 gallon of water a day. Proper supplementation with Mega-V's and a Multi-Amino (For my peace of mind. :P) Um..... high GI carbs after a workout, or low? I don't recall. 3g creatine per day... Do I have to take the creatine every day, or can I just do it on weight days? That stuff tastes nasty.

Thanks ahead of time, guys. Expect to see several more of these posts in the coming days.

-Harm-
 
You can lose fat and add muscle at the same time, but it's more efficient to pick one or the other and tailor your diet to that goal. I can give you some rough estimates on how fast to cut if you tell me your body fat%. If you're not sure, I could just guess it if you post a pic.

You sound pretty knowledgeable on muscle gain/fat loss theories, but I'll make a couple suggestions. Your fat intake seems a bit high, especially if you're trying to cut fat. 28% might work for a bulk, but it's too much for your goals. I'd suggest something closer to 20% or 15% if you can handle it. Try to get those fats from healthy sources like almonds, avacados, and natural peanut butter. Avoid saturated fats like ones you find in red meat and lard. Vegetable fats are easier for your body to process and less likely to be stored as body fat.

If you can't handle a full gallon of water, cut back to 3/4 or 1/2 gallon a day. Water is great and necessary, but don't be forcing it down your gullet. Always stay hydrated during your cardio. Before and after your workout is the only time you should have High GI carbs, and even then in moderation. It seems fat loss is your main goal, and high GI carbs (carbs your body breaks down easily) work contrary to that. Your body will be in a caloric deficit after a workout, so it's ok to consume some then, but otherwise it will lead to an insulin spike which packs your cells with nutrients.... which may lead to fat storage (sorry for the run-on sentence).

As for creatine, I think the standard recommendation is 5g per day after a three-day loading period of 20g per day. You need to consume that 5g each day to keep your muscles saturated with the creatine. If you don't want to deal with the hassle, feel free not to take it. It's not steroids; it will only help you a bit, if at all.

Overall, you need to focus on your diet. You should know exactly how many calories you're putting into your body. If you're not losing weight fast enough, lower your calories 100 or 200 per day. If you're losing weight plenty fast but feeling weak and hungry, add some calories. There's websites to find out all the nutrional info you need. Good luck!
 
I was/kinda still am in ur situation. I wanted to drop mad fat, but build muscle at the same time. I mean if you havent really worked out before this is very possible, if not very likely. Since your body is not very used to working out. first thing u should worry about is diet, here is a cutting diet that i have used and have been very successful with. i posted this in another thread:
1.) diet
MORNING CARDIO

Meal 1
5 oz. turkey breast
5 egg whites, 1 yolk
1/2 grapefruit or 4 large strawberries

Meal 2
Protein Drink: 2 scoops protein powder, 2 TBS Whipping Cream, 4 strawberries, 12 oz water
Or
6 oz Tuna, 3 egg whites, 1 TBS Flax, 1 tomato or ½ cup vegetables

Meal 3
6 ounces chicken (weighed prior to cooking)
4 cups salad (lettuce, tomato, carrot, cucumber, green peppers, etc.)
2 TBL Cider Vinegar and 1 TBS Sunflower Oil (or other vegetable oil) for a dressing

Meal 4
6 oz can tuna or 5 oz. chicken
3 egg whites
1 tomato or ½ cup vegetables

WORKOUT ROUTINE

Meal 5
Protein Drink: 2 scoops Protein, 2 TBS Whipping Cream, 4 strawberries, 12 oz water
Or
6 oz Tuna, 3 egg whites, 1 TBS Flax, 1 tomato or ½ cup vegetables

Meal 6
6 ounces lean meat (chicken, fish, filet mignon ) or 8 oz Cod Fish
1.5 cups vegetables

2.)You have to kicked ur metabolism in the ass sometimes and there are two ways to do this:
1.) you need to cycle days of high carbs and calories with days of low calories. Here is a calculator from Pintoca from elitefitness.com extremly useful
http://www.ccfiles.de/Pintoca Cutting Calculator v1.0.xls

2.) you can take thermogens to increase your metabolism I suggest Thermorexin, followed closely by hot rox you can find them a dpsnutrition.com for a real cheap price.


3.) creatine sucks, get rid of it. all it does is help you within the first minute of your workout, if you want to take some supplement take Vitrix. there will be people, probably prince albert (not ment to insult you, just that i think we talked about this before), that will say creatine is great. I ve known people that were about my same size in highschool, we both started lifting the same weight we both lifted hard he took creatine i took whey when it came to the end i was benching over 4 he was barly hitting 315 on the bench. dont wastre your money on creatine

4.) you have to buy protein whey. this is an essential i suggest isopure protein, or light whey protein for cutting (http://proteinfactory.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=525) or your whey which has 0 fat 0 sugar 0 carbs u can find it at yourwhey.com

5.) you need fats. good sources are natural almonds, pecans, flex seed oil, flex seeds, cottage cheese, tuna, etc.

6.) you need to lift weights, this will also increase your metabolism. I think you should lift inbetween the 4-8 rep range because right now u can probably lose fat and build muscle since your just starting out

if u have any questions let a brother know :)
 
creatine sucks, get rid of it. all it does is help you within the first minute of your workout, if you want to take some supplement take Vitrix. there will be people, probably prince albert (not ment to insult you, just that i think we talked about this before), that will say creatine is great. I ve known people that were about my same size in highschool, we both started lifting the same weight we both lifted hard he took creatine i took whey when it came to the end i was benching over 4 he was barly hitting 315 on the bench. dont wastre your money on creatine
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Maybe this has nothing to do with Creatine at all, but genetics, training intensity, eating habits, recovery time and or state of mind? Just food for thought.


Vitrix- Have you had first hand experience with this product? After doing some reading on this I'm very courious about its effect on erection strength. If you do have experience with it would you mind filling me in on it? Thanks in advance.
 
Wow, guys! That was quick and really helpful, thanks! :) Let's see what I got out of this, just to make sure I didn't missunderstand stuff. Please make corrections as are appropriate:

  • Eat as much lean, healthy protien as possible. Regardless of fats and carbs, this is going to be the most important part of the diet.
  • Focus on Low-GI carbs, but don't be carb-phobic about them.
  • Have high-GI carbs right before and after a work out, but in moderation (How moderate? Gram-wise.) (Any suggestions on *healthy* High-GI carbs?)
  • Creatine is largely a matter of personal opinion, but if I'm going to take it, be consistant with it.
  • If I have creatine I should go ahead and use it, otherwise I shouldn't really go out of my way for it.
  • When trying to cut while building muscle, it's better to go low-fat than low-carb.
  • I should aim for about a 45:20:35 (P:F:C) ratio.
  • Whey protien is good.

Now some more questions:
I know that not all protien-powders are created equal. I know that since I'm a man I want Whey, not Soy, so that's established. I probably want something low in carbs and fat, just to simplify things. And I know that I want something that tastes good. The thing is, how important are the other nutients in protien powder in respect to absorption and gains? Would it be better to get a powder with nutrients and aminos added in, or would it be better to take a multi-v and a multi-a with my protien shakes?

Next: Alright, so I can lose fat while gaining muscle. Awesome. How long can that be maintained? Eventually, if I want to continue to progress I'm going to have to switch to seperate bulking and cutting phases, aren't I?

After next: As is obvious I'm sure, I'm not really concerned about my health, I'm more in this for body sculpting. Is there anything I should do differently if I want to *look* good, rather than if I'm looking into improving my health or entering in competitions?

More nextly: Pilates and Yoga: I personally love them. I feel like they relax me and they certainly have had a beneficial effect on my less than good back. My question is, would pilates or yoga have a negative effect on muscle gains? Do they count as cardio or anaerobic or a combination of the two? Can I still get a 'yoga/pilates body' if I do weight work?

Bear with me here guys, I'm still new to all of this! But, think about the bright side of this: The look on the face of my ex when I have an eight pack 9% body fat! :)

Seriously, thanks for all the input, it's really kick ass and helpful.

-Harm-
 
harmonic169 said:
Wow, guys! That was quick and really helpful, thanks! :) Let's see what I got out of this, just to make sure I didn't missunderstand stuff. Please make corrections as are appropriate:

  • Eat as much lean, healthy protien as possible. Regardless of fats and carbs, this is going to be the most important part of the diet.
  • Focus on Low-GI carbs, but don't be carb-phobic about them.
  • Have high-GI carbs right before and after a work out, but in moderation (How moderate? Gram-wise.) (Any suggestions on *healthy* High-GI carbs?)
  • Creatine is largely a matter of personal opinion, but if I'm going to take it, be consistant with it.
  • If I have creatine I should go ahead and use it, otherwise I shouldn't really go out of my way for it.
  • When trying to cut while building muscle, it's better to go low-fat than low-carb.
  • I should aim for about a 45:20:35 (P:F:C) ratio.
  • Whey protien is good.

Now some more questions:
I know that not all protien-powders are created equal. I know that since I'm a man I want Whey, not Soy, so that's established. I probably want something low in carbs and fat, just to simplify things. And I know that I want something that tastes good. The thing is, how important are the other nutients in protien powder in respect to absorption and gains? Would it be better to get a powder with nutrients and aminos added in, or would it be better to take a multi-v and a multi-a with my protien shakes?

Next: Alright, so I can lose fat while gaining muscle. Awesome. How long can that be maintained? Eventually, if I want to continue to progress I'm going to have to switch to seperate bulking and cutting phases, aren't I?

After next: As is obvious I'm sure, I'm not really concerned about my health, I'm more in this for body sculpting. Is there anything I should do differently if I want to *look* good, rather than if I'm looking into improving my health or entering in competitions?

More nextly: Pilates and Yoga: I personally love them. I feel like they relax me and they certainly have had a beneficial effect on my less than good back. My question is, would pilates or yoga have a negative effect on muscle gains? Do they count as cardio or anaerobic or a combination of the two? Can I still get a 'yoga/pilates body' if I do weight work?

Bear with me here guys, I'm still new to all of this! But, think about the bright side of this: The look on the face of my ex when I have an eight pack 9% body fat! :)

Seriously, thanks for all the input, it's really kick ass and helpful.

-Harm-
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hey just another note on creatine, your trying to cut correct? you want your muscles to show and stick out? well creatine makes ur muscles retain water, your gonna look bloated

1.) i would say you should go for the whey that has nutrients and aminos added in as such i personally think isopure is the best in that regard and i thin your whey from yourwhey.com is the best for getting all the whey and non of the fat or carbs

2.) wow im not sure about that one. I mean newbie's gain rather quickly, i would guesstimate that after a month and half to 2months that you'll notice a plateau in muscle strength. yes you are going to have to seperate bulk and cutting. the way i do it is that in the fall i do kind of a warm up bulk (september 1 to october 31) then from november 1 to february 1 i do a all out bulk.(since the beach season is over for me) then i start cutting in early spring and summer

3.) well, i know bodybuilders restrict carbs, load up on sugars, and dehydrate themselves prior to competition. that is so unhealthy but do what you want with that, but i mean that is really reallly unhealthy, since you want to stay hydrated as much as possible.

4.) pilates and yoga are fantastic. I heard that stretching the muscle spindles promotes strength. and yoga can add to ur flexibility since weight lifting may take some of that away. you can still get that lean yoga body if u lift, but I think you would be better off not concerning your self with a yoga physique since in opinon they look kinda frail. but thats jsut me. i would save pilates and yoga for after workout, not sure if it is anerobic or areobic

well thats my view on it, im sure there are people here that no more about these topics. take care

im2
 
crazyed27 said:
Maybe this has nothing to do with Creatine at all, but genetics, training intensity, eating habits, recovery time and or state of mind? Just food for thought.


Vitrix- Have you had first hand experience with this product? After doing some reading on this I'm very courious about its effect on erection strength. If you do have experience with it would you mind filling me in on it? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I havent had a chance to try it out just yet, because of money woes, but i have done some reasearch on it. It draws your own testosterone from ur testicles, promoting good blood flow and increase in test o and vitrix also increases libido which id figure is good for your erection. Steroids also release testosterone, and users have claimed that they feel bigger and more thick. anway mase64 is the one who turned me on to it, so u can pm him for more info since he used it.
 
im2manly said:
I havent had a chance to try it out just yet, because of money woes, but i have done some reasearch on it. It draws your own testosterone from ur testicles, promoting good blood flow and increase in test o and vitrix also increases libido which id figure is good for your erection. Steroids also release testosterone, and users have claimed that they feel bigger and more thick. anway mase64 is the one who turned me on to it, so u can pm him for more info since he used it.
Click to expand...


Thanks man!


With the way it sounds, just maybe it could help with the process of Penis Enlargement and quicker gains? I'll see where I can get it for a good price and give it a go.
 
Hey Harmonic. The Protein turnover rate for most healthy adults is 1.8181 grams per pound of LEAN MUSCLE. I know that sounds like quite a bit and will be a chore to eat everyday but nothing ever comes easy. That's where the dedication part comes in. People (including myself) that use that as the guideline for their protein intake are amazed @ the quick rate of body recomposition. I'm almost hesitant to post this because everyone seems to have an opinion but I've tried many diets in the past and nothing worked as quickly w/as much ease as Atkins. Seriously. The 40/40/20 diet is a close second. I hope you meet and exceed your goals. Oh and creatine ethyl ester will NOT make you bloated. It will make you rock-hard and pumped. W/the exception of the creatine ethyl esther, I wouldn't worry about supplements just yet. Get your training and diet dialed in before you start experimenting. If your training/diet is correct, you will not experience a plateau for a year or 2 until you reach your natural limit. Oh and BTW, Protein is amino-acids.
 
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dude creatine forces water into the muscle spindels to increases energy to give you more energy to get a rep more or two. that pumped=water in muscle cells, that is the point of creatine to keep ur muscles hydrated. and the atkins diet is not only temporary but dangerous, may as well take a ECA stack.
 
im2manly said:
dude creatine forces water into the muscle spindels to increases energy to give you more energy to get a rep more or two. that pumped=water in muscle cells, that is the point of creatine to keep ur muscles hydrated. and the atkins diet is not only temporary but dangerous, may as well take a ECA stack.
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You are correct about creatine forcing water into the cells. That's why I recommended Creatine ethyl esther as opposed to creatine monohydrate. Creatine mono causes subcutaneous water retention (which is what causes the bloat) as well as intracellular water retention, whereas CEE forces the water into the cells only causing bigger, harder, fuller musculature w/NO bloat.

I don't know where you got your information about the Atkins diet being dangerous because if you look at all of the latest peer-reviewed journals, they are all in agreement that, not only is it safe, but it is VERY effective. Every diet is as temporary as the person's dedication/will power. I'm talking from firsthand knowledge here. I would never suggest anything that I've never tried/done myself. My 20 years of experience and my results speak for themselves.

Oh and as far as the ECA stack, if it was so dangerous, why was ephedra unbanned and available? If you've ever used this stack responsibly, you'd know how well it actually worked. But if you're like most of society, you see where a bunch of obese people took it, looking for a magic bullet, and had heart attacks and died and make up your mind that it must be "the devil's own brew." The truth is out there and trust me brothers, the media will not give it to you.
 
Im not sure about Creatine Ethyl so u might be right about that. But bro atkins restricts carbs correct? dude your body needs it to function. you'll have no energy for your workouts, and once u start eating carbs again ur going to get all that weight back, and carbs put u in a good mood so no carbs=a angery person. Dude i was suggesting a ECA stack, even though i dont think Asprin is that needed it does thin the blood but also causes ulcers. i do know how well it works, and i have/ and will use the ECA stack thats the best and cheapest thermogenic out there. and i think my resutls speak for themselves as well.
 
I'm sorry man, I may have misunderstood your post. LOL. Happens, I guess. The trick w/Atkins is to add the carbs back s-l-o-w-l-y. Like 5 grams per WEEK until you are neither gaining/losing weight. As far as no carbs making you angry, I'm pretty sure that's myth. When you get into ketosis (using fat for fuel) you don't notice it, really. Especially if you have a high amount of BF, you'll have more than enough energy. If you do use this diet, you should also supplement with Acetyl l-carnitine. This helps to mobilize fat and makes the whole process work better. But the only supps I would suggest are creatine, ALCar, protein and a good multi-vitamin. The more exotic things should be added in MUCH later. Oh and I agree that aspirin isn't necessary, either.
 
Alright, so setting aside creatine and an ECA stack, let's look at the Atkins thing. Now, on the one hand I've had good luck losing weight with Atkins (I say weight because I don't know how much was fat and how much was muscle.) Now unless I'm mistaken, it's easier for the human body to break down muscle for energy than it is for the body to break down fat (Since fat is used as a last resort energy source.)

So as such, doesn't that mean that mean that Atkins would stand as a deterent to me building muscle?

Also, I know that when I went on Atkins my calorie intake was severley cut (Due to the fact that I was eating to much less food) could that stand in the way of me building muscle?

On the other hand, considering the body I'm looking to get (Think Brad Pitt, not Hulk Hogan) it could be a boon. I'd just like to see a consensus on this, 'cause if I could just do Atkins, or a variant there of, until I meet my goals, that would be tremendous!

Also, I know I asked this before, but I never got a response, really: What would be a good, healthy high-GI carb that I could have before, during and after my workouts? As you can imagine, I'd rather not eat a spoon full of high-fructose cornsyrup with my protien shake. ;)

Thanks again guys, this has all been extreemly helpful!
-Harm-
 
Hey Harmonic. Like I said in an earlier post, the PTOR (protein turnover rate) is 1.8181 per pound of lean bodyweight. So if you are getting this in or more, like let's say, 2 grams per lb/lBathmate, you will absolutely build muscle. Protein will build muscle, carbs are for energy and glycogen stores when not in ketosis. Feeling tired? Eat more fat. That will be your energy source while in ketosis. The reason I recommend CEE is because that will also give you more muscular endurance and it's one less thing your liver has to do.
I think where people fail w/Atkins is lack of knowledge. They think it's all about not eating carbs which is false. It's about restricting them for a 2 week period (or longer if you have higher bodyfat) until you get within 10 lbs. of your goal and then adding carbs back (5 grams per week) until you are neither losing/nor gaining fat. Give it a month. If, after that time, you do not like losing most/all of your fat and building slabs of lean muscle, no big deal. It's only been a month.
Do your cardio first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach and do not eat for 30 mins afterwards, take your acetyl l-carnitine to mobilize fat stores and you will see how fast your body changes. Whatever you decide, good luck w/your goals and if I can help out in any way, please don't hesitate to ask.
 
Thanks Bionic, your posts are really helpful! Well, it's decided: Atkins it is! I'll keep you guys posted on what results I get and you'd damn well better bet that I'm gonna' keep asking newbish questions. Now it's just a matter of getting up off my ass and into the gym. :)
 
To being with: Hoorah! Yesterday I think I managed to get around 150g of protien. No where near where I need to be (~215g in the classical approach, ~389g in Bionic's approach.) Still, that's closer than I've ever come to 'ideal' before!

Anyhow, that's not really the point of this post: When I was at the gym lastnight I took the time to actually find out my one rep max for most of the machines that I work on. (To interject a note: I know that most people whole heartedly reccomend using free weights, but I'm just a bit phobic of them. So for the time being, and for the forseable future, I'll probably be working on machines.) And I found out two things: One, I'm stronger than I thought I was and two, doing a full circuit doing just one set of one rep of my max is enough to make me sore the next day. :)

Now as I understand it, from previous posts, I should aim to be doing about three sets of four reps, correct? I've also read, however, that I should aim to do as many as I can at 70% of my one rep max. Being the confused person that I am, I'm going to post what I managed to do, and I'd like your inputs on where to go from there: Number of reps, number of sets, total weight. If you guys felt like it you could even throw in some suggestions for three day a week routines, but I know I'm already asking a lot. Anyhow, on with the show:

Key:
Exercise name: One rep max (Notes); 70% of one rep max

Upper Body:
Back:
Seated Row: 150lbs.; 105lbs.
MTS Row: 40lbs./40lbs. (Per arm); 28lbs./28lbs. (Per arm)
MTS High Row: 80lbs./80lbs. (Per arm); 56lbs./56lbs. (Per arm)
Lat Pulldown: 135lbs.; 94.5lbs.
Wide Grip Pullup: 110lbs. (Assistance); 187lbs. (Assistance)

Chest:
Biangular Chest Press: 125lbs.; 87.5lbs.
Biangular Incline Press: 125lbs.; 87.5lbs.
Butterfly Press: 105lbs.; 73.5lbs.
Dips: 60lbs. (Assistance); 102lbs. (Assistance)

Chest and Back:
Pullover: 150lbs.; 105lbs.

Bicepts:
Arm Curl: 90lbs.; 63lbs.

Tricepts:
Seated Dip: 150lbs.; 105lbs.
Arm Extension: 80lbs.; 56lbs.

Shoulders:
Lateral Raise: 110lbs.; 77lbs.

Core:
Abdominals:
Abdominal Isolator 712: 200lbs.; 140lbs.

Lower Back:
Back Extension: 30 @ 280lbs.

Lower Body:
Quadracepts:
Horizontal Leg Press: 275lbs.; 192.5lbs.
Seated Leg Press: 335lbs.; 234.5lbs.

Hamstrings:
Leg curl: 120lbs.; 84lbs.
Seated Leg Curl: 165lbs.; 115.5lbs.

Hip Abductors:
Outer Hip Abductors: 180lbs.; 126lbs.
Inner Hip Abductors: Someone was on the machine... :(

Calves:
Calf Raises: 335lbs.; 234.5lbs.

End.

A question comes to mind, after typing all this up: The Back Extension, where you sit on the pad while another, attached to the weights, rests in the middle of your upper back, slowley you straighten your back, lifting the weights; is this exercise safe? It seems a bit scary...

Thanks ahead of time, any input would be more than welcome!

-Harm-
 
I don't think I ever made mention of this, but I think it might be good so that you have some perspective on what I look like and my goals and such:

Age: 21
Height: 6' 2"
Weight: 220lbs.
BathmateI: 28.2 (~22 is considered ideal)
Body Fat Percentage: 28% (8%-15% is considered ideal)*
Pounds of Body fat (According to above): 61.6lbs.

Measurements:
Waist: 42.5"
Hips: 43.5"
Chest: 42"

*Note one: I determined my Body Fat Percentage by means of a scale I bought from Walgreens. According to the scale I can gain or lose about 5% body fat over the course of a day, so take the number with a grain of salt.

**Note two: Below you should find pictures of the body type I'm trying to achieve. I know it's going to be a very long, very hard road, but I think that the goal is worth the work.

Thank again!

-Harm-
 
Good job, H. You are well on your way. The hardest obstacle is the first week. Make it through that and you will be golden. Don't worry about whether you are using free-weights or machines. I bet you drove to the gym in a machine, made your coffee in a machine, cook your food in a machine, etc. Your body can't tell the differerence, it just knows resistance.

Here is the way that I workout:

This program consist of doing two warm up sets per body part. The first warm up set should be very light and about 15 reps. The second warm up set will consist of a moderate weight for 6-8 reps. (In noway should these sets be fatiguing). Then 3 total work sets per body part are to be performed. Work the type A-fibers on the 1st set. Fatique the B-fibers with the 2nd set and finish off blasting the C-fibers with the last set. Each set is taken to complete failure or one rep shy depending on your recovery abilities.
With this 3 day a week HIT program 3 sets are performed twice in an 8 day period. Its imperative you never work out two days in a row so as the CNS can be ready for the next workout. The CNS ability to recovery "does not" increase as we progress in our training. The stronger we get the more intensity that can be generated through lifting heavier weights, therefore making the recovery process taking even longer.

MONDAY: (WEEK 1)

Chest: One compound movement for chest. I have found the 45 degree incline press to be the best for most but some like flat bench presses.

Shoulders: One over head compound pressing movement like dumbell presses or a smith machine, etc.

Triceps: Close grips or lying tricep extensions if your elbow joint can handle them..

Traps: Shrugs.

Crunches: Do a higher rep range on abs so the lower back is not injured.

WEDNESDAY:

Back width: pulldowns or better yet chin ups.

Back thickness: rows

biceps: dumbell curls..Avoid heavy concentrated curls such as one arm spider curls as they can rip the tendon/muscle clean from the bone.

calves: standing calf raises "not the seated version" as they are for the soleus.

quads: squats

hams : leg curls


FRIDAY: Same as mondays workout

(WEEK 2)

Monday: SAME AS WEDNESDAY ON WEEK ONE AND SO ON.

NOTE: I left out deadlifts as I’ve witnessed several trainers trainers blow out spinal disk performing this movement while using proper form. It destroyed their bodybuilding activities along with their life so I no longer give out advise pertaining to this exercises. Be careful if you choose to do them! This workout program will need to be adjusted if you incorporate deadlifts.

NOTE: For each push-pull movement the antagonist muscle group recieves the same amount of work sets. For ie; (CHEST PRESS-ROWS). (SHOULDER PRESS- PULLDOWNS) and so one.

Preventing "boredom" will always be an important factor in everyones success. While rotating to a different exercise each session is not a necessity with this program, some "enjoy" being able to do so with the (basic mass builders). Thats fine!!! A good illustration would be doing squats one workout and substituting squats for the leg press machine the following workout and then back to squats the next time around and then back once again to the leg press and so on. But you must avoid incorporating such movements as heavy shoulders laterals, pullovers, flyes, leg extension, concentrated curls, good mornings, wrist curls, etc when trying to further your progress as these will not aid in adding the size-strength you seek but will most certainly set you back with nagging or possibly chronic "injuries".

I am confident this plan will help anyone wishing to make further gains in mass/strength. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks, Bionic! It certainly does help! It sounds like a lot, but then, the way I've been doing it I've been filling up about half an hour at the gym, then just going home, so this will be a nice change of pace! :)

I wanted to make a note on supplements: I think that I'm going to stick with a multivitamin, an amino complex, SAMe (For depression, nothing to do with body building or what have you) and my Omega-3s. I'm doing this for two reasons: First, supplements cost a hell of a lot of money, which I'm currently lacking; second, after my weight loss starts to slow, or my gains start to plateau I'm going to start adding them back in, to kind of 'restart' my results. Does that sound good to everyone? Also, as regards weight loss I know of the following supplements:

Appetite reduction:
Hoodia
Pectin
Pyruvate
Fiber
Caffeine

Metabolism Boosters:
Green Tea
Gensing
Omega-3 Fatty Acids
CLA

Metabolism Boosters + Stimulants:
Hot-Rox

Which would be introduced from least powerful to most powerful as needed. Is there anything I forgot, anything you guys would take out or add in? What, aside from CEE (Or is it EEC... ECE...? The creatine) and protien can I add to get better muscle gains?

Keep in mind with all of this that none of it is going to be added in until I've stopped making progress, which sounds like it could be a while away.

Thanks!
-Harm-
 
Harmonic,
If I were you I would check out 9cy's thread about his routine and check out some of the links at t-nation. I was skeptical about t-nation at first, but after checking out several of their programs and trying Chad Waterbury's strength focus mesocycle , I'm sold. There are a lot of different programs to try, so you won't have any problems finding fresh routines. There is also tons of info regarding nutrition.
 
ok man I'll Try to address everything I can, just let me know if i Leave out anything.

1.) Atkins I am very anti-atkins, i personally never used it bascially because I know what lack of carbs can do to your body. You'll feel tired, and if you replace it with fats which would make it almost 50%fats that is not good for your body either. so if i were you id stick to the 40/20/20

2.) Supplements Ok there are two weight loss supplements (w/ the exception of the fantastic wieght loss god of a ECA stack) that I suggest they are Hot Rox or Thermorexin. Hot rox can be bought at dpsnutrition.com for the cheapest you can find it and thermorexin can be found at the afstore.com type this in if they ask for a discount, afdiscount. you might also want to add Tonalin CLA and vitrix. obviously you need the essential protein whey...and listen do not get the creatine.

3.) Work out ok first off you are going to have to learn to use free weights....and the smith machine does not count. Since you are just starting, it might be a good idea to get started on the machines but you really have to transfer over to free weight bench, squat, deadlift, and stiff leg deadlift. anyway heres a workout plan that I think might be best for your situation.
MONDAY
1.) Bench press (or in your case chest press)- 4 sets 8 reps
2.) Cable Crossovers (or Butterflies)- 3 sets 8 reps
3.) Shoulder press- 3 x 6
4.) Shoulder (vertical) raises- 3 x 10
5.) tricep (arm) extensions- 3 x 8
6.) seated dip- 3 x 8
7.) Abdominal Isolator- 4 x 15
8.) Cardio- I dont think you should do HIIT just yet, wait till you get in better shape. but try this run on a eliptical (the machine where you can like glide or slide) for 20 mins, and try to do this 20:00mins - 18:00 jog 18:00-17:30 run harder, 17:30-15:30 jog. so basically its 2 min jog/ 30 sec run harder do that for 20 mins, if your chest hurts during this stop.

tuesday
1.) squat (horizontal leg press i guess would be the closest thing)- 4 x 8
2.) seated leg curl- 3 x 8
3.) Calf raises- 3 x 10
4.) Lat Pulldowns- first set 12 reps, second set 10 reps, 3rd set 8 reps (looks like this 12, 10, 8)
5.) Arm Curl (?)- 3 x 8
6.) I would say preacher curl but i dont know what other bicep excerices you know/ they have and i am not sure what you mean by arm curl in any case aim for a 8, 6, 4
7.) abs from monday
8.) cardio from monday

wednesday off

thursday do mondays workout

friday do tuesdays workout

saturday and sunday off days...remember you get strong when u rest. I think a MWF might be too much for u right now. and the reason the reps are higher then what i stated is because i didnt know ur stats. You should cut right now, I am about 6'4 345 14% body fat and 42 inch waste, and cutting help me alot.

4.) if you do run in the morning do not run on a empty stomach like someone hear told you. what do u think starts your meatbolism? food! but there is certain food you should eat before working out....FRUIT! liver glycogen is important in fat utilization, so eat a piece of fruit before a workout...remeber not to much tho heres a good link http://www.parentsurf.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_7_22/ai_n6170379 as for what carbs to eat after working out i would also suggest a piece of fruit.

i think i answered all ur questions if i didnt let me know
 
dumb stupide you can edit ur message after 10mins rule anway heres my edit

add back extensions to tueday and friday at 3 x 10

5.) amount of weight to use when lifting i never used the 70% of your max thing, because i always liked to push myself and i think that will only hold u back. use weight that makes it hard for you to complete the last rep of the last set only so for example i told you to do chest press for 4 sets 8 reps. well you should be able to do 3 x 8 fairly well, work up a nice sweat but dont tire out ur chest. then on the 4th set you should barely be able to get 8 reps and this goes for every exercise with the exception of the back extensions and abs....we dont want to hurt ourselves now do we rofl
 
The first thing I'm going to say is that you need to take out a lot of those machines (or all of them) and replace them with compound free weight lifts. "Your body doesn't know the difference" is a load of crap. When you take out the stabilizers, yes, your body knows the difference. Every routine should have the following basics as the core: squats, deadlifts, bench press, military press, rows, pull-ups, dips, and maybe calf raises and curls. Cleans rock too, but if you don't like them or don't want to try them without proper coaching, that's fine.

It's a myth that you have to stick to higher reps to gain size. There are many rep ranges that will build lots of muscle. Some of them will build strength too. I know strength may not be a goal of yours, but I guarantee you'll make better progress if you focus on max strength at least some of the time. I wouldn't do circuits unless you're specifically trying to have a cardiovascular, and specific cardio workouts would be better for that anyway. Stick to standard set/rep schemes. Maybe try this workout by Chad Waterbury. It combines strength and hypertrophy parameters quite effectively. If you'd prefer, you can make it 3x10 and 10x3 instead of 3x8 and 8x3. You may have to adjust the weight accordingly (use 12RM or so for 3x10).

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459533

I'm not a big fan of Atkins-type diets. I did a very low-carb diet a while back (T-Dawg 2.0) and definitely felt some lethargy after about 2 weeks. And that wasn't even ketogenic. It worked well for fat loss, but you'd have to eat a ridiculous amount of food to put on any significant amount of muscle with a diet like that. I'd say to eat and train for muscle gain. Simply getting serious about nutrition and training will probably give you a decrease in BF%, and there's no point in cutting if there isn't much to cut down to.

For macros, I'd first figure out your total caloric intake. The figure out yout protein intake (think of 1g per pound as the rock bottom minimum, 1.5 or more would be better), have 25-35% of your calories from fat, and make up the rest with carbs. Fruits and veggies, oatmeal, and sweet potatoes are my personal favorite sources of carbs. Adding fish oil to your diet may help with fat loss. Look at the amount of EPA/DHA in each serving, and figure how many servings you need for 6g of that. Different brands have differing amounts.

For workout nutrition, the cheap way to go is whey isolate and maltodextrin. 25g of protein and 50g of carbs should do the trick. Add some BCAA powder in there to really boost the effectiveness. If you have the $$ (it is pretty cheap), have a serving right before, and a serving after. There's a pretty good argument for having your post-workout shake an hour after you finish your workout, contrary to tradition. Dave Barr has a good article on this:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=0C700AE616930D30B3002DEB330BFF69.hydra?id=659666

I'd recommend using HIIT 2 times per week, 3 if you can hack it. This will keep your BF% under control while adding muscle. Check out my other thread for links on that topic.
 
yo cyc man hes just starting out, if he jumps right into free weight exercies like squats and deads he is most likely gonna get hurt...but you are right like i said before hes gotta go over to free weights. and he is trying to cut not increase size or strenght....since he is starting he will see newbie gains, so he should stick to a higher rep low rest workout to keep his heart rate up. and bro i think HIIT is way to hard for anyone just starting conditioning. in the cardio i suggested there is a very slight inclusion of HIIT. To me it sounds like he doesnt want to add mass so deads are totally out of the question, and cleans are is a very complex exercies, and he aint ready for it (or probablly not)
 
im2manly said:
yo cyc man hes just starting out, if he jumps right into free weight exercies like squats and deads he is most likely gonna get hurt.
Click to expand...

Not true. I see more people getting hurt because they try free weights first and then they think they're strong enough to actually use any weight on a real lift. Better to lift correctly from the beginning.

and he is trying to cut not increase size or strenght.
Click to expand...

He's going to need to add muscle to look like those pics he posted. Since he's a newbie, he may be able to lose fat at the same time though. Better to add some mass and then cut than to cut down to bones (no offense, harmonic, everyone starts somewhere) and then try to add lean mass.

since he is starting he will see newbie gains, so he should stick to a higher rep low rest workout to keep his heart rate up.
Click to expand...

Why? Maybe he should stick to 3x8 or 3x10 for the first few weeks, but there's no reason not to work on strength. You will ALWAYS get better results if you focus at least some of your training on maximal strength.

and bro i think HIIT is way to hard for anyone just starting conditioning. in the cardio i suggested there is a very slight inclusion of HIIT.
Click to expand...

You're probably right there. It depends on the current conditioning level, but you can still do cardio with that principle. Maybe instead of jog/sprint he can do walk/jog or something. Increasing the intensity, even for only a couple 30-second intervals is going to increase caloric expenditure and therefore fat loss.

To me it sounds like he doesnt want to add mass so deads are totally out of the question, and cleans are is a very complex exercies, and he aint ready for it (or probablly not)
Click to expand...

You can do deadlifts until the cows come home and not gain a pound if you aren't eating to gain mass. Muscle size is made in the kitchen; weight training is just the catalyst for muscular growth. Deadlifts are one of the best lifts you can do, no matter what your goals.

Cleans may be too complex for now, but he may want to try them eventually. They're a lot of fun and effective as hell.
 
you have to put priorities first 9c9...he is a newbie so almost any strenght program will get him big....his waist is 42 inches, if he doesnt want a bigger or ass or waist he should not deadlift, thats why i said he shouldnt because it (along with squats) will make your ass and waist bigger if you do them....his main priority at 28% body fat is to lose weight, and keeping the reps around 8 and 10 would be better for what hes aiming to do, and 8 and 10 reps will add muscle i am living proof of that. Harmonic listen ok do not deadlift for what you want to do there is no need, i stopped deadlifting and did a program kind of like what u got and my waist went from 48 to 42 inches in 2 months. first lower your body fat and lose weight then you can worry about strenght and dead lifts....9c9 for his health he needs to concentrate on losing weight and not strength this used to be my problem thank god i stopped all that nonsense.
 
Gentlemen, first I want to thank both of you for everything you've contributed. You're both right when you said I was a newbie, and honestly I'd rather two people who know what they're doing offer me conflicting advice; than a hundred idiots all telling me to drink salt watter everyday 'cause it'll make me huge and skinny! :) So seriously, thank you to everyone who's helping out.

Next, I think you've both got some good points: 9cy, you're right, I do need to have something to cut down to, and 2manly you're right that I need to get healthy; honestly I'd love to do both at the same time. In any case, I want to interject something: I know I'm not going to get cut down to those pictures of mine overnight; I honestly don't know what a reasonable time frame would be, considering where I'm at. I was hoping to get there in a year's time (Please, offer your input on this, as I've really *no* point of reference!). I don't know if that changes your respective views on things or not, but I'd rather do this well, do this healthfully and get to my goal next October, than to do this unhealthyfully and get there in six months.

As for the Atkins: It may make the both of you cringe, but I am going to try to cut down my carbs. That said, when I say cut down I don't mean the 20g max for the first two weeks of Atkins, nor do I mean the "More than 100g a day and you'll get fat!" Atkins. Right at the moment I am trying to get my protien intake to where it needs to be (1.25g/lb, right? 1.81g/lb according to Bionic.) While at the same time trying to have the majority of my carbs pre and post workout. (Usually around 50g in a two hour span.) Also it needs to be noted that I'm not planning on doing this Atkins for life BS, so (With luck) in fifty years I won't have a heart attack thanks to eating a bowl of pig fat for breakfast each morning.

Anyhow, I want to add this one little note in: I know the three of you (Bionic, 2manly and 9cy9) disagree on a lot, but just the fact that you're helping has done a lot. You've all given me a hell of a lot of motivation, a lot of "Hey, if I work my ass off I can actually do this!", a lot of good advice and most importantly, the knowledge that if I need help there are people who will give it. So I say again: Thank you all, you've done me a lot of good. :)

-Harm-

(Also: Cy, don't worry, I'm not offended: I know I'm new, that's why I started this. :) )
 
lol trust me being a newbie can be good sometimes....lol the gains can be amazing. I ve seen guys benching 135 to 250 in 4 months. anyway the reason I am so confident in what i say is because these guys havent gone throught what i had to. They can say waht they want but they didnt (or probablly not, not meant to sound like i know everything in the world or sound cocky) drop 6 inches in the waist and almost 40lbs in 2 months. and i kept alot of muscle....o and buddy you defnitly can get cut and healthy...from what i got from 9c9's post he wants you to concentrate on strenght (i could be wrong so dont get mad bro) that would require you to eat more cals and get wider. Right now, i think we need to slim down and start cutting before we even worry about strenght. p.s. 8-10 reps will def. add strength especially when ur a newbie...hell i do tri extensions and tri bench for 10 reps and i can bench over 400. so dont worry about it.
 
im2manly said:
lol trust me being a newbie can be good sometimes....lol the gains can be amazing. I ve seen guys benching 135 to 250 in 4 months. anyway the reason I am so confident in what i say is because these guys havent gone throught what i had to. They can say waht they want but they didnt (or probablly not, not meant to sound like i know everything in the world or sound cocky) drop 6 inches in the waist and almost 40lbs in 2 months. and i kept alot of muscle....o and buddy you defnitly can get cut and healthy...from what i got from 9c9's post he wants you to concentrate on strenght (i could be wrong so dont get mad bro) that would require you to eat more cals and get wider. Right now, i think we need to slim down and start cutting before we even worry about strenght. p.s. 8-10 reps will def. add strength especially when ur a newbie...hell i do tri extensions and tri bench for 10 reps and i can bench over 400. so dont worry about it.
Click to expand...

I think it's fine if he lifts purely for hypertrophy for right now. It's probably better at this point to keep the reps relatively high though, since he's a beginner. At some point, he's going to need to include phases of strength work though. Nothing major, maybe 4-6 weeks of a routine emphasizing maximal strength and hypertrophy. You don't have to get bigger/heavier/wider to get stronger. It may help, but it isn't necessary. You can even gain strength on a cutting diet. It isn't as easy, but it can be done so long as the diet isn't ultra strict and you periodize your training appropriately.

Focusing on strength isn't "nonsense," it's a sure-fire way to get good gains. You won't get huge just because you're training for strength, and you won't get a thick waist just because you're doing deadlifts. The reason you lost 6 inches off your waist is that you also lost 40 lbs in that 2 month period. Anyone would lose 6 inches, it had nothing to do with deadlifts.

Harmonic, I think for right now if you just eat healthily with plenty of protein, and hit the weights hard and effectively, your body composition is going to make a change for the better. No need in getting overly complicated as a newbie. You're in the gym and you're cleaning up your diet. That's all you need for now. I wouldn't worry about going on a particular cutting diet, just get enough protein, watch your carb intake (but don't get to obsessed like you said), and supplement with fish oil. Get on a good lifting program. This is a really good basic program that prince Albert posted in another thread:

prince Albert said:
Back/biceps

Weighted chins 3x6-8
bentover row or dumbell row 3x8
deadlift 3x3
barbell curl 3x8

Chest/shoulders/tris

Low incline d/b press 3x8
weighted dips 3x6
military press 3x8
lying tricep extensions or close grip bench press 3x8

Legs/abs

Squats 4x6
stiff leg deadlift 4x8
Standing calf raise 3x10

abs,take your pick plenty of options.
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After a month or two of eating and training like this, evaluate your progress. Get some bodyfat calipers since your goal is leanness, and measure yourself now and a month or two from now. Make changes to what you're doing based on your progress. And do the damn deadlifts. lol The volume of deadlifts in that program isn't going to give a whole lot of hypertrophy even if you're eating a lot.

Oh, and PS: women like squat asses. The same way men like squat asses on women. :D
 
wait wait wait a second. First off deadlifts do make your waist bigger because if you do it right it works your hips,glutes and your groin area. 9c9 is right though you can add muscle while cutting..i am still in the cutting process and at the start i was benching 315 12times currently i can do it 14 times (now not sure if i increases strenght or my muscle fibers are altered)...the reason he can get stronger and cut is because he is new at this, i am sure whenever u started you got astronomical gains....and dude his body fat is almost 30 percent, that is very unhealthy for the heart (dont mean to offend b/c im 340 and that is unhealthy regardless of body fat%) and I highly doubt he can do weighted chin ups and the reason i lost 6 inches is not becuse i lost 40lbs because last year when i was cutting and still deadlifting and squating i lost maybe 2 inches on my waist but lost 30lbs.

Anyway you are right he does need to eventually need to cycle strenght work with cutting and time off. but if you throw this guy right in there to do deadlifts, squats, and barbell rows theres a more then likely chance he is going to fuck up his back. hes gotta get comfortable do more research on technique and not worrying about moving the most weight. like you said before my friend its all about priorities.

anyway harmonic eventually These following exercises should be the staples to your workouts ( none on that horrible smith machine) EVENTUALLY
squats
deadlifts
barbell rows
Bench press
Barbell Press

seriously you should start asking trainers at ur gym on how to perform these exercises. Just so I know what you want Harmonic, do you want to lose weight and cut or build mass and strength?
 
im2manly said:
wait wait wait a second. First off deadlifts do make your waist bigger because if you do it right it works your hips,glutes and your groin area.
Click to expand...

What do the hips, glutes and groin have to do with the waist?

9c9 is right though you can add muscle while cutting..i am still in the cutting process and at the start i was benching 315 12times currently i can do it 14 times (now not sure if i increases strenght or my muscle fibers are altered)...the reason he can get stronger and cut is because he is new at this, i am sure whenever u started you got astronomical gains
Click to expand...

Sho nuff did. rofl

....and dude his body fat is almost 30 percent, that is very unhealthy for the heart (dont mean to offend b/c im 340 and that is unhealthy regardless of body fat%) and I highly doubt he can do weighted chin ups
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Obviously something like weighted chins would be a goal to work toward. And I never told him not to lose fat, in fact the whole time I've been saying that he can probably lose fat and gain muscle. 28% is too much, yes, but you can still train for strength/size while losing fat, especially as a newbie.

and the reason i lost 6 inches is not becuse i lost 40lbs because last year when i was cutting and still deadlifting and squating i lost maybe 2 inches on my waist but lost 30lbs.
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There are really too many factors for either of us to know whether your decrease in waist size was due to deads or not.

One pic I like to point out to people is this one of Dave Gulledge. He's a very successful competitive powerlifter (which means he does deadlifts A LOT) and he manages to have a pretty slim waist.

http://www.midwestbarbell.com/~midwestmd/Strongman/DSCN0115.JPG

Anyway you are right he does need to eventually need to cycle strenght work with cutting and time off. but if you throw this guy right in there to do deadlifts, squats, and barbell rows theres a more then likely chance he is going to fuck up his back. hes gotta get comfortable do more research on technique and not worrying about moving the most weight. like you said before my friend its all about priorities.
Click to expand...

Why does he need to do tons of research before he gets off the machines? Harmonic, if you decide to start doing compound lifts (which you should, IMO, unless you have any health conditions that would make it dangerous), watch some video clips and for the more technical lifts such as squats and deads, read up a bit on technique, and then just go for it. No need to obsess over details. These lifts aren't exactly rocket science. I squatted the first time I stepped into a gym because I had read that squats were one of the best lifts you could do. Not once have I wished I had started on leg presses or extensions. If you use your head, you'll be fine. Just go easy with the weight until you're comfortable with the lift.

anyway harmonic eventually These following exercises should be the staples to your workouts ( none on that horrible smith machine) EVENTUALLY
squats
deadlifts
barbell rows
Bench press
Barbell Press
Click to expand...

Sooner rather than later, IMO.

seriously you should start asking trainers at ur gym on how to perform these exercises.
Click to expand...

That's assuming that the trainers at your gym know what they're talking about. In my experience, many trainers will just tell you not to do squats because they're bad for your knees or they're dangerous or some other such nonsense.

Harmonic, you're getting a lot of differing opinions here, but keep in mind, that's exactly what they are - opinions. Do what sounds best to you, the main thing is that you're in the gym and eating right.
 
~Smile.~

2manly, you're right, I would like to get cut. ~Nod~ 9cy, you're right, I'd like to get strong. I'd like both.

I'm gonna' simplify things for you guys a little bit. I know I need to get off the machines, but I also know that I'd like to go to the weights will a pretty good understanding of what to do, and how to do it. As such, 2manly, I'm going to take your advice and do my research, look up a variety of exercises and how to do them well. As such, my goal is to get into the free weights in a month, so if there is a consensus to come to, aim to have found it by December 2nd. :P

Once again, gentlemen, your help is more helpful than I think either of you know. :)

Tanks again,
-Harm-
 
Also! I think it bears mentioning: I DO want a butt! Something that my girlfriend will envy. (2manly, don't worry, of the 60 extra pounds I'm carrying, about 4oz. of it is in my butt area. :P) I don't really know what a 'squat ass' looks like, but I'm sure it looks better than a "Hey, I play video games all day and I really like apple juice! ass". :P
 
first off i hope your kidding about the first picture, because she wearing that thing around her waist to make it smaller and give her a hour class figure aka a corset....i dont see what this has to do with deadlifting b/c getting glutes from deadlifting is different from having a nice ass. And I am almost definite someone told me arnolds waist was around 40inches and todays bodybuilders waist arent exactly skinny either
 
Gentlemen, while I appericate your respective furvor in regards to each of your perspectives, I don't want any animosity to start on account of me, or on account of a thread that I started.

=/
 
dont worry bro there is no anomosity, were just having a conversation
 
~With some disconcertion.~ Okay...

I think I'm going to do the following: For the next three months I'm going to try to get the hang of things and get some habituation with the gym, eating healthfully and sleeping enough, and at the same time.

For the six months after that I'm going to focus on building up strength and a good base to cut down to. I'm probably going to increase my calories and carbs around these six months, while introducing a less 'simple' whey protien, I was thinking about getting Surge and Low Carb Grow to help add on some muscle. I may also invest in some Creatine, but I'm going to do research on it first, not only is it hella' expensive, but 2manly you seems ardently convinced that it's completly worthless, and since you know a hell of a lot more about this than I do, I'm not gonna' just run out and buy it.

Then in the final three months of the year I'm going to decrease my calorie and carbohydrate intake and introduce some fat burners into my diet. I think green tea the first month, Hot-Rox the second, then the third, if I'm not where I want to be, I might try that ECA stack that you suggested, 2manly. This, like the creatine, however, I'll research the hell out of (My parents trained me to be a hypochondriac, go figure.)

Then, with luck, one year from now I'll be at least *close* to the pictures that I put up a page ago. A couple of questions real quick:

Right now I'm training for strength, pretty much. Three sets of ten reps, or, as the gym showed me the other night, one set of ten reps, one set of eight and a half reps, then one set of six reps. :P Anyhow, as I get closer to my 'year' how should I train to avoid putting on any more mass, while preserving what I already have? Should I do more reps with lighter weight, or train less often, or just train differently? I've read all the threads about how newbies are scared that they'll look like Arnold if they start lifting, and I'm no different.

The second question is directed mostly to 9cy: T-Nation has a whole bunch of different ways to use Surge. The one I'm mostly familiar with is "Half a serving before your workout; half a serving during your workout; one serving directly after your workout; one serving an hour after your workout (I think)". Several questions, but easy ones: Did I miss any? What should I do with it on not weight training days? Assuming I'm doing weights three times a week, and yoga, pilates and balance ball once a week, and have one rest day, how many jugs of Surge would I need for a one month supply? I ask the last, entirely math based question, because I'm not sure if I missed anything, if I should use it on 'off' days or if the Yoga/Pilates/Balance Ball count as training days.

Thanks again, Gents!
-Harm-
 
harmonic169 said:
The second question is directed mostly to 9cy: T-Nation has a whole bunch of different ways to use Surge. The one I'm mostly familiar with is "Half a serving before your workout; half a serving during your workout; one serving directly after your workout; one serving an hour after your workout (I think)". Several questions, but easy ones: Did I miss any? What should I do with it on not weight training days? Assuming I'm doing weights three times a week, and yoga, pilates and balance ball once a week, and have one rest day, how many jugs of Surge would I need for a one month supply? I ask the last, entirely math based question, because I'm not sure if I missed anything, if I should use it on 'off' days or if the Yoga/Pilates/Balance Ball count as training days.

Thanks again, Gents!
-Harm-
Click to expand...

I think the most current recommendation is one serving right before and one serving an hour after. There's an article by Dave Barr called top 10 PWO myths or something that has some good info. I can't afford that much Surge so I use whey isolate and maltodextrin with some BCAAs for pre-workout. I get it from www.proteinfactory.com because it's very cheap.

I wouldn't worry about having a PWO shake when you're doing yoga or cardio or whatever.
 
reps of ten and 8 is not aiming to build strenght...reps of 2,3,4,5 would be aiming to build strenght. but i do thin a rep range btw 6 and 8 would be best for what you want
 
Well, I've been thinking about this a little bit since my last post, and I realized something that you and Cy both tried to point out to me: I need to get healthy. If I'm healthy and fit, then I have the rest of my life to sculpt my body however I like, correct? So I think that should be the first thing I focus on.

As far as my consideration of fit: According to the internet (In it's infinite wisdom. :P ) I should have a BathmateI between 18.5 and 24.9. That said, the BathmateI doesn't take into consideration muscle mass at all, so I could have an unhealthy BathmateI and 12% BF. So that's disconcerting. According to a variety of different formulas I should weigh between 167lbs and 189lbs, with an average of 177.5lbs, but that seems kind of skinny.

Anyhow, after a little looking around, it would seem that the best measure is BFP, which should be around 10.8% for me. This means that I have to lose 35.4lbs to get to my 'ideal.' Which I think is doable over the course of the next ten months. Your opinion?

As for the specific measurements I'm looking for, I can't really say. I'm not good at visualizing, and I can't apply the various formulae on the internet, since I don't know what my waist size *should* be. Makes things kinda' tough, huh? I found the 'Grecian Ideal' on the internet, which states that I should be:

Chest: 46" (+3.5")
Waist: 32" (-11.5")
Hips: 39" (-4.5")
Bicep: 17" (+1.5")
Forearm: 13.5" (+1.5")
Thigh: 24.5" (-1")
Calf: 16" (-1.5")
Neck: 17" (+1")

(The numbers in parantheses are what I need to gain or lose to reach those numbers.)

But I don't know how reasonable the above is.

Actually, I've been thinking about it: I mostly want to be better in bed, that means increased strength and [words=http://fleshlight.sjv.io/c/348327/302851/4702]stamina[/words]. (That would be high weight at low reps, and low weight at high reps, correct?) So I guess my new, equally vague goals would be:

Get to 10.8% BF
Lose 35.4lbs of *fat*.
Increase my strength
Increase my [words=http://fleshlight.sjv.io/c/348327/302851/4702]stamina[/words]

'Cause after I get there, I can cut and bulk to my heart's content, yes?

Love to hear your input,
-Harm-
 
Oh! A question I forgot to ask: What're the muscles that we use durring missionary sex? I think it's:

Holding the position:
Pectorals
Deltiods
Biceps
Flexor Carpi Ulnaris

Thrusting:
Abdominal
Latissimus Dorsi
Sacrospinalis (Erecter Spinae)

Then lesser muscles:
Glutes
Thighs
Obliques

So, what specifically is the muscle that starts burning when I've held the position too long? I think it's the deltoids, but I'm not entirely sure. 'Cause I'd love for sex to not hurt anymore. :P

-Harm-
 
Don't focus too much on BathmateI, it doesn't take muscle mass into account. It's basically a decent guideline for untrained people, but once you throw some muscle mass in there, it's not very applicable anymore. The Greek thing is nice, but isn't really all that feasible. Those measurements are attainable, but to go for all of them exactly? Too tedious. I tthink a good way would be to go by the mirror. If you like what you see, then good. If you don't, change whatever it is that you need to change.
 
Bah! I fucking hate this! It's the whole, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing phenom. I read that I can gain muscle and lose fat. That's good. Then I read that to grow muscle I have to increase my caloric intake by 20% or so of my basil requirement, and that odds are I'll add a little bit of fat while I 'bulk'. Then I read that I should do lowcarb during the week and get all ketogenic, then high carb during the weekend and bah! Plus Cy, you're saying that I need to have something to cut down to, and 2manly you're saying not to worry, I'll build that muscle by going to the gym even if I am dieting and... so many 'and's.... Things are getting a bit confusing. There's so much bloody information out there and it's all presented so well and I don't have a B.A. in Exercise Physiology or Nutrition, much less the seemingly required PhD. So I'm getting out of this that to get down to 10.8% BF I need to reduce my calories and regulate my carbs, but to get muscle I have to increase my calories and carbs. It just seems like it's physically impossible to both lose fat and gain muscle without a bit of divine intervention, which is doubtful 'cause God and I had a spat in middle school and He hasn't spoken to me since.

Sorry, I had to vent; I'm getting a little bit frustrated with the lack of science behind this. (I know there's a science, I'll just be damned if I can see if! :P ) What was I going to ask...? I can't recall.

Oh yeah! Okay, so I'm trying to figure out where I really should be. 10.8% BF is a good goal, I think. It may take me more than just this year (Considering that I'm coming down from about 27%) but that's fine, it'll just keep me going into 2007. :P

Next: You're both right, I need to build some damn muscle. How do I go about finding out just how much I actually have, and how much I would actually need for it to show? 163lbs or so if me *isn't* fat, but that narrows it down to bones, organs, water, nutrients and muscle. So how to I go about finding out how much of this 163lbs is muscle?

Next: I'm guessing that 43-42-43 aren't very good measurements: Do you guys know of an online tool type thingie where I could say "Okay, let's see, chest: 46"... nope, too big... 43"... a little too small..." etc.? I doubt I'm explaning this well. Is there a way I can see what I *would* look like *if* I had those measurements?

Let's say, just for shits and giggles, that at 6' 2" tall, I have zero pounds of muscle. Not litterally, of course, but just enough muscle to walk and generally live, how much would I have to tack on to make them visible at my goal BFP?

How much muscle could I add on in my year if I really kicked my ass?

Cy: Girls really like the squat butt? 'Cause I want girls to like my butt.... Damn white, non-exsistant, Irish ass.

Okay, so high points:
  • How much muscle should I aim to add this year to look defined?
  • How much muscle should I aim to add this year to look medium/big?
  • Is there a way, aside from my stunning imagination, to see how I would look with x number of inches added to body part X?
  • What specifically can I do to improve my ability to hold myself up in missionary?
  • What is the average air speed velocity of an unlaiden swallow?

I think that's it for now. I know this is getting obnoxious guys, but you're both really helping a lot, and I mean that. If nothing else you guys have helped me to get up off my ass and into the gym, and stop eating pizza twice a week, and that's a lot. :)

Thanks,
-Harm-
 
You're thinking too hard about it. Lift right, eat right. The end. It's that simple. I think it's John Berardi that talks about "paralysis of over-analysis" in bodybuilding. Don't think too hard about it, it's a very simple process.

And yes, girls like a good butt. Squats will give you a good butt. :D

Speaking of that, squats are also the best way for a girl to get a fantastic ass.
 
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