Beginning of the Universe

What are your views? Why are we here How did we come to be? How did the universe start?

Well scientists know the universe has a beginning and an end. Anything with a beginning and an end, came from something else. You can't keep going back (infinite regression), so we know there had to be something infinite, that always was and will be (no beginning, no end) that could create everything finite (has beginning, has end). I believe God is this infinite.

Pretty much the Miller-Urey experiment and the impossibility of inifinite regression of time and the universe, disproves evolution (among many other extra experiments and details - these just the simple easy ones to understand and explain).

You would think the order of the universe and its makeup, is a design. Designs come from designers. Intelligent design is almost undeniable. What say you all?

Any and all "logic" induced to prove some sort of intelligent design is bullshit and flawed in some way. Intelligent design is, IMHO, a last-ditch effort by theologians to push the idea of a creator god into people's minds. There is no proof of any such creator and anyone who has the gall to say, "Well, prove god doesn't exist, then!" is just being sili. Believing in something just because you can't prove it doesn't exist is not suitable grounds for founding a belief that shapes your life.

But, I digress. String theory is taking over the cosmology world; it seems to have a plausible explanation for holes in other theories (e.g. the unification of the strong, weak, and EM forces made by numerous theories of the universe which all cannot account for the fourth force, gravity, at all). A certain fundamental vibration of the strings lends itself exactly to the existence of the graviton.

The Big Bang was a physical certainty. It happened. The basic matter particles of the universe (quarks and electrons) were manifested about 1 second after the intial expansion and atoms were formed about 10000 years after the bang. String theory dictates 10 dimensions, including time. Three of these (and time) expanded after the bang, while the remaining 6 remained curled up in a space whose size is along the lines of 10^-34m. These dimensions are wrapped up by the strings which make up the universe and are manifest in shapes known as Calabi-Yau shapes.

Why did the universe begin? Who knows? How did it begin? Well, we are getting closer to understanding that. I recommend Brian Greene's "The Elegant Universe" if you want to read about string theory.

Sephin, you go to church dont you...

I would like to think there is a god, afterlife and all that.....but I think science is disproving that QUIK.....But if there is, Humans are no more significant than a parasite, or any of the other trillions of species on other planets for that matter (it would be pretty naive to think the dont exist, since we do dont you think???

Our universe started just like all the rest, Outside our universe is the Multiverse, An infinite stretch of space that holds infinite amounts of universes, so ours again is not significant at all....Not sure how this adds to anything, but.....

String theory looks pretty promising though....You guys sound like pretty intelligible chaps, Im just one of those underschooled peeps that reads lots of Scientific American, but cant explain whats in his head because of a slushy mixture of A.D.D and too much dope.....
Glad to see a thread like this on the forum, just trying to add to it

Peace

I'm not doubting the Big Bang occurred. It is a scientific certainty it did.

None of your string theory or what you said discredits God or intelligent design. Just your opinion backed by fact on how the universe is, not how it came to be.

Any and all "logic" induced to prove some sort of intelligent design is bullshit and flawed in some way. Intelligent design is, IMHO, a last-ditch effort by theologians to push the idea of a creator god into people's minds.

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Exactly. In your biased opinion. There is plenty of facts that back creationism.

It takes more faith to believe there wasn't/is intelligent design, than it does to believer there was/is.

There is no proof of any such creator and anyone who has the gall to say, "Well, prove god doesn't exist, then!" is just being sili. Believing in something just because you can't prove it doesn't exist is not suitable grounds for founding a belief that shapes your life.

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The Bible claims God created the universe. There has yet to be anyone who has disproven something the Bible has said. Hundreds of prophecies in it have come to pass, and more have yet to pass.

The historicity of the Bible is undeniable. When it was written. The fulfillment of prophecies that came later in history are well documented by numerous non-christian historians and sources. The mathematical probability of all these prophecies being predicted and coming true by chance, is in math terms an impossibility. Foreknowledge was key to them all coming true.

1) Israel would be re-united again as one nation Ezekiel and other books of the Bible say this
2) The exact year Israel would be re-united

In Ezekiel 4:3-6, the prophet said the Jews, who had lost control of their homeland, would be punished for 430 years. This prophecy, according to Bible scholar Grant Jeffrey, pinpointed the 1948 rebirth of Israel. Here's a summary of Jeffrey's theory:

1. Ezekiel said the Jews were to be punished for 430 years because they had turned away from God. As part of the punisHydromaxent, the Jews lost control of their homeland to Babylon. Many Jews were taken as captives to Babylon.

2. Babylon was later conquered by Cyrus in 539 BC. Cyrus allowed the Jews to leave Babylon and to return to their homeland. But, only a small number returned. The return had taken place sometime around 536 BC, about 70 years after Judah lost independence to Babylon.

3. Because most of the exiles chose to stay in pagan Babylon rather than return to the Holy Land, the remaining 360 years of their punisHydromaxent was multiplied by 7. The reason is explained in Bible's book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 26:18, 26:21, 26:24 and 26:28). In Leviticus, it says that if the people did not repent while being punished, the punisHydromaxent would be multiplied by 7. And, by staying in pagan Babylon, most exiles were refusing to repent.

4. So, if you take the remaining 360 years of punisHydromaxent and multiply by 7, you get 2,520 years. But, Jeffrey says those years are based on an ancient 360-day lunar calendar. If those years are adjusted to the modern solar calendar, the result is 2,484 years.

5. And, there were exactly 2,484 years from 536 BC to 1948, which is the year that Israel regained independence.

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3) Israel's army winning against serious odds

In Leviticus 26:3, 7-8, the Bible says that the army of Israel would have a supernatural power to prevail during times of conflict, if the people are obedient to the Lord. This Bible passage says that 5 people would be able to chase away 100 people, and that 100 would be able to chase away 10,000. Is there any proof to this incredible claim? Judge for yourself:

Example 1: Within hours of Israel's declaration of independence in 1948, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Lebanon invaded Israel. The combined population of those countries was at least 20 million at that time. Israel had fewer than 1 million Jews. Even so, the Jews won the war and expanded the size of Israel by 50 percent.

Example 2: During the War of 1967, Israel attacked the air force bases of the surrounding countries and took control of Jerusalem for the first time in about 2000 years. They also seized additional territory. That war lasted a mere 6 days.

Example 3: On Oct. 6, 1973, Israel was attacked by Egypt and Syria. Other countries later joined the attack. But the Jews were able to push back the attacking armies and occupy land outside of Israel's borders.

Leviticus 26:3, 7-8
"If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, … You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you."

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4) The fortunes of Israel would be restored

In Deuteronomy 30:3-5, the Bible said the Jews would be scattered worldwide and that they later would return to their homeland and have their fortunes restored. This prophecy began to be fulfilled in modern times during the late 1800s when many Jews returned to Israel, from as far away as China and the United States, Russia and South Africa. Israel declared independence in 1948. Today, Israel is among the world's most prosperous countries. In 1999, for example, Israel's per capita Gross Domestic Product was twice as prosperous than the neighboring countries.

Deuteronomy 30:3-5
then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back. He will bring you to the land that belonged to your fathers, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.

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5) Egypt would never again rule other over other nations

In Ezekiel 29:15, the prophet says that Egypt would recover from a desolation (perhaps Babylon's attack about 2600 years ago), but that it would never again rule over other nations. Up until the time of Ezekiel, Egypt had been a world power for centuries, dominating many nations, including Israel. But for most of the past 2500 years, Egypt has been controlled by foreign powers, including the Romans, Ottomans and Europeans. Today, Egypt is an independent nation again. In 1948, 1967 and 1973, Egypt tried to dominate Israel but was unsuccessful each time, despite the fact that Egypt is 10 times larger than Israel. Egypt today, in many respects, is an impressive nation. But since the time of Ezekiel, it no longer rules over other nations.

Ezekiel 29:15
… I will make it so weak that it will never again rule over the nations.

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There are more, but those are just 5 I snagged from one website 100prohpecies.org.

Other prophecies such as the mark of the beast are in the works and soon to come.

In Revelation 13:16-18, the Bible says that there would come a time when a powerful leader would force people to receive a "mark" on or in their right hand or forehead, and that no one would be able to buy or sell unless they had that mark. When the book of Revelation was written about 1900 years ago, it would have been nearly impossible for a world leader to force everyone to receive such a mark. But, today, with modern technology, it would be much easier. Today, for example, it would be possible to implant under a person's skin a small microchip that could be used like a credit card.

Revelation 13:16-18
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

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My uncle is working on a small chip that can be implanted subcutaneously, as a way of identification. He is unsaved, but I told him about it, and he nervously smiled.

Anyhow. Search the internet on your own. There are seriously hundreds of websites with over 300 prophecies from the Bible that have been fulfilled, and lots more to be fulfilled. Im too lazy to post em, but they are easy to find.

Just check out this site http://www.quiknet.com/~dfrench/evidence/prophecy.htm for the history facts.

Check out http://www.quiknet.com/~dfrench/evidence/science.htm for the science facts, found in the Bible, way before man proved it through science.

This is some next level mind warping trippy stuff. I enjoy reading things like this.

kausion_420 said:

This is some next level mind warping trippy stuff. I enjoy reading things like this.

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hahahaha, thats what I shoulda said, let them do their thing,and moved on
lol

VladtheImpaler said:

I would like to think there is a god, afterlife and all that.....but I think science is disproving that QUIK.....But if there is, Humans are no more significant than a parasite, or any of the other trillions of species on other planets for that matter (it would be pretty naive to think the dont exist, since we do dont you think???

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Bullshit... There's you a scientific fact. Science can't disprove God. How many times have you monkey-descendent-wanna-be's told me that "science can't disprove God because you can't prove a negative."

As I've said before, as a Christian, if I'm wrong I'll never know the difference, but if I'm right, you monkey-worshippers are screwed. Forever.

I think it's funny how monkey-men try so hard to prove that Christianity is wrong... it's like some deep seeded conviction compels you to justify the void in your soul.

I know this post doesn't sound overly Christian, but I get sick and tired of people trying to make Christian look dumb. You can't prove your beliefs with anymore certainty then we, so open your mind and admit it's possible or bug off.

Great Jihad Texman, that was a pretty harsh little ditty.....Ungrounded for sure, Im not gonna fuck around with quotes or nothing, but HOLY SHIT, not a word makes sense.....

Look at the first sentence you quoted (scribbled on treebark from yours truly the monkeyman wannabee) which totally discredits all that you have said freind.....

Now AGAIN I SHALL SAYETH: If god and an afterlife are real, then that is a great thing.....But if he is real and such a divine and merciful creature, then I dont think he would throw all us good moral people(that dont pray) into the fiery pits of hell, just because we dont go to church, and give money to it.......

I agree with the moral standards of your religion, but not that "if you dont give your life to god your divinely fucked", thats bullshit and if its true I want nothing to do with that lord.......
Hope this clears things up Tex, I like your posts and you seem to be a funny, happy-go-lucky guy......
But I think tthis time I should be crying BULLSHIT on you and not the other way around!!!

Thankyou

String Theory.

Watch the special.

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Once again. Proves how the universe is made up, not how it was made.

I think it's funny how monkey-men try so hard to prove that Christianity is wrong... it's like some deep seeded conviction compels you to justify the void in your soul.

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I find it funny. In science you go into the matter unbias and see where the facts point. Evolutionists went in trying to prove a be all end all theory of the universe based off of some birds and how they adapted.

The theory was filled in with science, and holes are still left, and it is taught in schools. Hilarious how bunk the theory is and how it is taught in school.

I still challenge you all to visit those sites. Until you do, I don't see how you can see my side of the story *ahem* ancient china... Pop in and say what has already been said and redirected back to, then pop out.

I would like to think there is a god, afterlife and all that.....but I think science is disproving that QUIK.....But if there is, Humans are no more significant than a parasite, or any of the other trillions of species on other planets for that matter (it would be pretty naive to think the dont exist, since we do dont you think???

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LOL. The more we learn of science the more the Bible is seen to corrolate in perfect harmony with it. There were things in the Bible people refused to believe until science would prove it. Things that came thousands of years before scientists would say it was true, because they had to run experiments.

Humans are more important than any other thing on earth because we are the most intelligent. We have created so much more than any other critter. Our thinking level, social orders, etc are so much greater than any other thing.

The special? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/ that?

ANYWAYS, string theory is even in the bible http://www.2ndcheek.com/stringtheory1.htm

Acts 8:38-40
Genesis 5:24
Hebrews 11:5
2Kings 2: 11,12
Acts 8:26
2 Kings 2:1-15
Rev. 21:1
etc etc etc

I love new discoveries in science. They seem to either prove or perfectly coincide with my faith.

then I dont think he would throw all us good moral people(that dont pray) into the fiery pits of hell, just because we dont go to church, and give money to it.......

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Hahaha. We are born into sin. We are imperfect and it is our nature. We do not DESERVE to be with God, which is the epitome of heaven, prescence with God.

BTW, you aren't saved by going to church or giving money, only by confessing Him as Lord and asking him to be your God, and repenting of your sins.

Anyways, I find it funny how people say, evil exists in the world, and good and moral people can burn in hell according to the Bible. I ask them their point. Evil exists due to free will. We ALL sin. Every single person in the world. This sin separates us from God and if we don't repent we go to hell. Salvation is a gift. A mercy we do not deserve. If God withholds it, it isn't our place to say we were good people so we deserve to be let into heaven.

It's like everyone kicked bobby in the shin, and no one is invited to his party, unless they say sorry. Everyone wants to be there "own man", "independent", and all that BS, and like the parable (aeop's fable, not the Bible ) of the fox and the grapes, you swear it will suck or doesn't exist.

And you say your a generally good person, so if bobby doesn't invite you, then he is just being a jerk and you want nothing to do with him.

It doesnt matter how good a person you are to everyone, your sinful nature offends God, and if you don't repent your not invited into his party in heaven.

I cant even believe your trying to say that evolution is somehow not legit. That stuff about intelligent design is just a scientific euphemism to try and slip religious crap over people's eyes.

All that stuff about prophecies is crap too. I can find sites that say 2pac is coming back b/c off all the prophecies he wrote about in his songs. The bible is wrong. The bible says the earth is 6000 years old which isnt true. It also says that if you work on the sabbath (sunday) you should be put to death.

So the bible says a lot of crazy stuff, noah and the flood, jonah in the whale, etc. So the bible is just there for moral guidance and are not meant to be taken literally. Its hilarious that your trying to say that science is on the side of the bible or religion.

God is different than religion. I may believe in god, but I will never believe in religion. How can any rational normal person do so? They say a "a religious fundamentalist" is someone who demands and only will accept a LITERAL interpretation of the bible.

Just like our islam extremists enemies.

VladtheImpaler said:

Great Jihad Texman, that was a pretty harsh little ditty.....Ungrounded for sure, Im not gonna fuck around with quotes or nothing, but HOLY SHIT, not a word makes sense.....

Look at the first sentence you quoted (scribbled on treebark from yours truly the monkeyman wannabee) which totally discredits all that you have said freind.....

Now AGAIN I SHALL SAYETH: If god and an afterlife are real, then that is a great thing.....But if he is real and such a divine and merciful creature, then I dont think he would throw all us good moral people(that dont pray) into the fiery pits of hell, just because we dont go to church, and give money to it.......

I agree with the moral standards of your religion, but not that "if you dont give your life to god your divinely fucked", thats bullshit and if its true I want nothing to do with that lord.......
Hope this clears things up Tex, I like your posts and you seem to be a funny, happy-go-lucky guy......
But I think tthis time I should be crying BULLSHIT on you and not the other way around!!!

Thankyou

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Yeah, sorry Vlad; that was a little harsh. This is a subject that has been beaten pretty hard at this place, granted I believe most or all of it was before you joined (I don't know if you lurked for awhile or not). For what it's worth, I am a Christian, but I don't subscribe to a "religion." Religion is man made amd it's what generally gives Christianity or any belief a bad name. Religions have been the basis for many bad deeds throughout history and if people confuse man made religion with true Christianity I can see where negative opinions form.

Anyway, thanks for not coming down too hard on me...

we're like tadpoles in a sitting pond!!!!!!....it's real simple!....i think!

As much as I don't want to get involved in this discussion (because I can get really heated about this topic :D), I will say that science cannot disprove divine creation, and if God created the universe (which I believe He did), that does not disprove science. In any way.

Some food for thought: Stephen Hawking attends church every Sunday.

There. You now have no reason to think that science disproves God. The man who came up with many of the theories that you use to try to discredit creation attends church and believes in God. This says to me that you have no idea what you're talking about and you're just using bad logic and bad arguments so you can convince yourself that you don't have to live by any moral code or believe in God.

Oh, and I agree with this quote by Texan:

For what it's worth, I am a Christian, but I don't subscribe to a "religion." Religion is man made amd it's what generally gives Christianity or any belief a bad name. Religions have been the basis for many bad deeds throughout history and if people confuse man made religion with true Christianity I can see where negative opinions form.

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Very well said!

Casey you are funny.

I cant even believe your trying to say that evolution is somehow not legit. That stuff about intelligent design is just a scientific euphemism to try and slip religious crap over people's eyes.

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Micro evolution is proven and I believe it. Cross-species evolution and macro-evolution (we all came from primordial soup yada yada) I do not believe and has not been proven.

All that stuff about prophecies is crap too. I can find sites that say 2pac is coming back b/c off all the prophecies he wrote about in his songs. The bible is wrong. The bible says the earth is 6000 years old which isnt true. It also says that if you work on the sabbath (sunday) you should be put to death.

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Complete joke to even compare the two. I don't know about the 2pac prophecies, but all those are just expounded on farshots as many prophecies are. They are somehow related and normally the relation is found (and forced) after the truth happens.

The Bible gives DIRECT and SPenis EnlargementCIFIC prophecies and the years those prophecies were written are ACCURATE and CORRECT. Don't even try to compare 2pac prophecies with a book proven to be written over 2000 years ago. The Bible does not say the earth is 6000 years old you idiot. Read any of the bloodlines listed in the Bible and it goes back way more than 6000 years.

I would rather read a book literally as its literal translation has never been proven false, than ignorantly quote completely wrong, out of context, or missing other pertinant parts to the verse, from the book.

Show me the verse where it says if you work on the sabbath you shall be put to death. If you can show me one I am sure it is in the old testament under the OLD covenant which we are not under, due to Chris dying on the cross. We are in the new covenant.

The verse you are thinking of is in exodus and deuteronomy, which say you will not work on the sabbath, but if your mule is stuck in a ditch to pull him out. It never even speaks of death. See the third commandment.

You are obviously ignorant of the Bible and your sili statement "The bible is wrong," is simply comical. Show some proof. Cite some sources. Maybe your convictions won't be so laughable then.

So the bible says a lot of crazy stuff, noah and the flood, jonah in the whale, etc. So the bible is just there for moral guidance and are not meant to be taken literally. Its hilarious that your trying to say that science is on the side of the bible or religion.

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The ark was easily doable. Do a search on it and you will find plenty of sources citing the specs of the ark and how it was more possible than the pyramids.

The flood is seen through the fossil record and other geological evidences. Jonah in the whale is also very possible.

God is different than religion. I may believe in god, but I will never believe in religion. How can any rational normal person do so? They say a "a religious fundamentalist" is someone who demands and only will accept a LITERAL interpretation of the bible.

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I agree about religion and God. Religion is just tradition and ceremony built up over time.

Almost every single Christian organization, and every single church I have been to including the 2nd biggest one in all of California (who has their own crusade, website, TVshow, radio, etc), all believe in a direct LITERAL translation of the Bible.

As it stands, it has never been proven wrong in over 2000 year, in its literal translation. But honestly don't look ignorant and sili, especially the facts considering something you know little of, especially when it is the opposition. Just stop.

I see that a nice, heated debate has already sparked up! Good!
I won't bother to retype all the things I've said in previous similar topics on this forum, but to make it short, I agree the most with VladtheImpaler. IF god and an afterlife exist (I certainly hope so... even though the prospect of nonexistance isn't really all that frightening once you really think about it), then all the more power to you Christian fellows on the boards. However, I find most organized religions downright despicable, chastising and insulting in the way that they expect extreme gullibility and sometimes even blind faith from the populace. I have studied the bible somewhat (not too deeply, though), and I find a lot of contradictions there. The pieces just don't add up in my mind. I simpy cannot come to terms with the claim that we humans are somehow superior and totally unique in the universe... and I ESPenis EnlargementCIALLY have a hard time swallowing ludicrous claims such as the creationist theory, which has literally nothing behind it to back it up: only the assumption that people should just ''buy into it''.
As has been stated in the topic, I do agree, and abide by, most of the so-called Christian moral rules. However, I have NEVER needed Christianity to teach me to love and respect life in all it's multitude- both human and animal- that is something I have been born with. In fact, I never felt comfortable when attending church even as a child; it all felt like empty, hollow rhethoric to me. That has not stopped me from ''walking the right path'', though. To sum it up, I guess I just don't feel like I NEED Christianity (or any other organized religion) to guide me through my life. The promise of an afterlife sounds tempting, but even though I'm not a devout Christian (I'm still registered as a protestant, being born into it), I'm sure my spirit won't rot in hell once I'm gone, if it turns out that there really is life after death.

I suppose you could say that I am a careful optimist when it comes to matters regarding the (possible) afterlife. It's just too big a thing for the human mind to be able to process or comprehend, so I'll just leave it at that and wait n' see what happens.

On a side note, I do believe that we are just one among multitudes of intelligent civilizations in our universe. It would be the coolest thing I can think of if we somehow got in contact with one of them... or better yet, got our hands on compelling evidence that they've already been here. There's certainly plenty of circumstantial evidence (and even some hard proof) that seems to indicate this...

The ark was no easily doable, it was impossible. Do you know how many different creatures and species are on this earth, all around the globe, extending to far reaching continents such as Australia. The bible depicts the normal animals such as cows and horses, but what off the other half a million species that were unknown to man even then. The Ark was not and is not more possible than the pyramids.

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All opinion as you support no facts. No animal housing numbers, manpower studies, or anything relating to the ark. All opinion. Cite a source or something, your opinion is simply that, opinion.
Check out http://www.rae.org/noahfaq.html http://www.rae.org/pagesix.htm and http://www.rae.org/bits22.htm for Noah Ark facts.

One fact I find very interesting...

Today there probably are about a million species of animals. But many of these have developed in the years since the Flood. "Species" is a modern term, different from the term "kind," as used in the Bible. The "dog kind," for example, includes all the modern dogs, wolves, coyotes, some foxes, and others. So there weren't nearly as many kinds of animals for Noah to load. The majority of today's species are aquatic -- the ark only carried "air-breathing" kinds, and many of these are small. Most likely its load was equivalent to about 50,000 sheep-sized animals. This would leave lots of room for Noah's family and all the food required.

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Sometimes I wonder if people are debating from an unbiased stand point or if they have something at stake here, their religion and will debate even on the weakest points to protect that image. I am not down with the Christian bashing and I felt many of the threads a few back were pointless and rude to everyone. I can assume as much as it is annoying for Christians to hear all of this the vice versa is true for non-christians. I don't believe in the the Christian's view of "God", I am unsure if I believe in a higher power, most likely I do, but to me it is not the God written about in Christian, Muslim and other text. Christianity is realitively new and furthermore the Greeks believed in their Gods just as passionately has Christians believe in their God today, doubt it makes any which one of them "right".

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Debating from an unbiased stand point? Haha. Debating is 2 sides trying to proove their side right. Debate rarely comes up unless someone feels strongly about something. Whether I am bias or have something at stake is no relevance to the debate and the facts.

I find that people will stake claims that are simple 1 line opinion statements in a debate, to protect their comfort with what they believe to be true and false. Please list some facts if you want to prove or disprove something, like I have.

I think the Judeo-Christian God is the right one because the flawless text that has been around for 2500 years and has been proven over and over again.

Gtg answer the rest later.

The Ark doable, yeah I think not......1 000 000 species, again no way.....we have still not discovered like 60% of the animal kingdom (given most are insects, but still)

How do you feed these animals for 60 days(Carnivores too)?
How do you make sure they dont mangle each other?
How do you build a boat that has to be like 100 times the size of an oceanliner???
How do you round up all the animals??
Where does all this wood come from?
Who builds the boat??? Noah??

Sephin you seem to blindly cling to this idea.....do you beleive every single word in the bible???
I myself feel sili for just replying to this.....
The world is this big for a reason

PS i checked that those Ark links out (because I do like to see others side of it) and I hope others do too, becuase, damn, that is really unintelligent bullshit....dont answer any REAL questions

This is my Experience of Christianity

As a youngin' I went to a United church that had a kickass preacher who IMO just thought of it as his personal stage show because all he did was make jokes and stuff like that, he was good at teaching about GOD because it was layed back and you didnt fall asleep cuz it was boring or nothing, and you didnt want to miss a joke....

Second Christian Experience:

Well I went to a summer camp that was a pretty fun, except for in the night, when these ultra elite Christian Extremists would try to get you to give your life (12 yr/old) to GOD and their religion.......ie: BRAINWASHING

Some things I thought were outright disgusting about it:

First of all, they would tell stories about when they were missionaries and go to other countries where the religions were outright evil (ie, anything not christianity) and how it scared them so much, but they prevailed to show many the light of christianity, I call this destroying other cultures and beleifs.....ANd by the way this came from the tightest little asian I have seen to this day, love to bang her.....Still didnt fall for her bullshit though......

ANother thing I remember them pressing was the need, if it came to it to "DIE FOR YOUR RELIGION".....You better beleive that your eastern enemies arent the only ones to think this way......

They told about some school (i dont think Columbine) where psycho's went around putting guns to peoples heads yelling "Do you beleive in Jesus", the ones that did got shot, the others didnt......
These people at the camp told us to be the ones to die for jesus, because if we didnt we would burn in hell (obviously different wording, but thats pretty much it)....

I didnt much think about it at the time because I was bored and wanted the next day to come, but when I thought about it, that is really fucking sick,
So one religion is no worse than the next......
(I may be going out on a limb here, but)
I bet if The East was the Superpower and The states was the little country that was getting fucked with, I bet the current events wouldnt turn out too different.....and the christians would use the same methods......

THats my question to you Christians (who Ionly have love for, I would just really like to know) Would you die for Jesus, in the way that the Islamists do, if it came to it????

Obviously, any moral person would die for a BELIEF, I would take a bullet for someone that mattered any day, but the way that these people said it at camp was absolute insanity....