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pullups
Guest
what is everyones opinion on them? should only people who are athletes, body builders, etc use them? are they worth the risk?
Steroids
It is only temporary like all drugs, unless your a professional bodybuilder or trying to go pro on some football team, I wouldn't. I have known around highschool time like a dozen peps doing them and they all look worse than shit now( so to speak ), one of them was even a competitive body builder and spent thousands of dollars monthly doing this, and stopped later on compition and even working out. He has strunk down to where you can barely recognize him. Plus it is not so safe with unknown side affects, unless you can get them legally prescribed which is difficult, don't take the risks off ordering these Hgh's from mexico and these pills ment for racing horses.
Their are lots of good supplements from www.prosource.com which are affordable, safe and reliable.
Their are lots of good supplements from www.prosource.com which are affordable, safe and reliable.
Sweets were did he get the thousands of dollars a month to buy gear if he was in high school?
Unknown side effects? people have been using roids for over 50 years now the sides are well documented.
Unknown side effects? people have been using roids for over 50 years now the sides are well documented.
The side affects are known, that's correct but the affects are unknown to the individual untill they take them and then first see that there testes shrink, there hair line jumps back and hair is falling out, they are getting bitch tits, acne on their face, chest, and back, etc.
this boy started in highschool and didn't competing till after highschool were he really got into it and started competing and using them excessively. Being illegal, he also did illegal things to get them such as selling them, and other drugs, as to how was able to get all that money for such a hobby,? He probably got it cheaper from his supplier since he was also selling it. He did get very big and was very knowlegable on the topic, nutrition, what legal supplements to take to counter balance some of the effects, estrogen pills, the whole shabang. I is very ineasy to the eye to see those users in the clubs with those little itty bitty shirts and they got to go threw the doors sideways cuz their massive.+ everyknows and will know when you mysterously gain 20-50lbs, like hey. And then you lose it like sigh,
unless you are still in the gym and are vigilant about maintaining your physique untill the effects are out of your system, but for sure they are tempory, we all know that, look at our hero Swarsanager*(sp).
this boy started in highschool and didn't competing till after highschool were he really got into it and started competing and using them excessively. Being illegal, he also did illegal things to get them such as selling them, and other drugs, as to how was able to get all that money for such a hobby,? He probably got it cheaper from his supplier since he was also selling it. He did get very big and was very knowlegable on the topic, nutrition, what legal supplements to take to counter balance some of the effects, estrogen pills, the whole shabang. I is very ineasy to the eye to see those users in the clubs with those little itty bitty shirts and they got to go threw the doors sideways cuz their massive.+ everyknows and will know when you mysterously gain 20-50lbs, like hey. And then you lose it like sigh,
unless you are still in the gym and are vigilant about maintaining your physique untill the effects are out of your system, but for sure they are tempory, we all know that, look at our hero Swarsanager*(sp).
Lol read my sig
if you wanna use them, just think carefully and study them first.
i have been on a few steroids myself:- testex, decanoate, oxy bolone, napasims, provirones, hcg, testivirone. my advice is this:- know what you are doing! many of my friends still do them and moan to me that their balls are shrinking. but they cant come off steroids because then their muscle mass will suffer. its a lose - lose situation. i recommended that my friend do the following cycle though - 2 months of decanoate and testivirone, one month on just hcg. then repeat. - take the next 6 months off. this is a years routine! the hcg is there to prevent your balls giving in! i do not recomend the use of steroids as the results are only temporary (some would disagee...) but if you do - i suggest a cycle as above...
EVO said:
PCT?
EVO said:what does pct mean? ?
Lol thats the reason your gains are only temperary mate
PCT is post cycle therapy.
little article that will give you a basic idea
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/clomid-hcg.asp
WRONG... HCG helps to kickstarts the testes which will help with recovery but you don't seem to understand what's really going on. When you increase test levels exogenously, estrogen levels will increase also to maintain the test/estro ratio... when you come off steroids, test levels drop off pretty quick because your body is no longer producing it but estro levels are still high. This is when you're most prone to estrogen sides. It is imperative that you take a good anti-estrogen to block it's effects 'til your natty test levels come back. Clomid/Nolva are estrogn blockers that will block the effects of estro and also encourage your HTPA to begin working again. You also don't want to take HCG post cycle because it is also suppressive and will inhibit recovery.EVO said:
Bro, don't give advice about shit you don't know about... someone will follow it and screw themselves up.
I would be against steroids becasue many people don't use them right. They think they are just like the miracle pe pills. You take them and get huge, which couldn't be farther from the truth. You have to lift incredible hard and still eat right if you want to see permanent gains. I would just stay natural and do it the safe way with permanent gains. First get yourself and good diet and then cycle some creatine if you need an extra boost. Proper nutrition is the key. Your body is a science and understanding it is the secret to great gains.
EVO said:
Not sikdogg but,
using HCG on PCT suppresses natural test production and that's the opposite of what is wanted.
Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/L) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/L). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 nmol/L to 72 nmol/L) in the TE/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Post-treatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression.
sorry guys but i dont understand, it says above that low levels of hcg maintains intratesticular testosterone in men with gonadtropin suppression. and the results are comparable, without hcg = 94% suppression. taking 250 IU of hcg = 7% suppression. have i missed something? sorry but i want to get this right incase i ever decide to go back on them....
sorry guys but i dont understand, it says above that low levels of hcg maintains intratesticular testosterone in men with gonadtropin suppression. and the results are comparable, without hcg = 94% suppression. taking 250 IU of hcg = 7% suppression. have i missed something? sorry but i want to get this right incase i ever decide to go back on them....
The study is saying that without hcg, the subjects were suppressed by 94% which means they were only producing 6% of what they did before they became suppressed.
Post treatment, the results were as follows:
Those taking 125iu EOD was 25% less than baseline or producing 75% of what they did before suppression.
Those taking 250iu EOD was 7%less than baseline or producing 93% of what they did before suppression.
Those taking 500iu EOD was 26% GREATER than baseline or they were producing 26% more ITT that what they did before before suppression.
Post treatment, the results were as follows:
Those taking 125iu EOD was 25% less than baseline or producing 75% of what they did before suppression.
Those taking 250iu EOD was 7%less than baseline or producing 93% of what they did before suppression.
Those taking 500iu EOD was 26% GREATER than baseline or they were producing 26% more ITT that what they did before before suppression.
Because HCG is an LH analogue, the body thinks it's procuding too much and suppresses its release from the Pituitary. Since this is already suppressed from the exogenous test, it's a moot point. The fact is that once you stop taking the HCG your test levels will drop off again until the hypothalamus and pituitary begin to produce sufficient GnRH and LH/FSH levels. The recovery for H and P are much faster than the testes so HCG can improve recovery but while you are on it, it causes suppression so you can not fully recover.
information about steroids to me going back 2 years ago was basically word of mouth. i didnt have access to internet so didnt know any better. someone says " ive had good results with this" and you take it. actually about 80% of people i know who have used steroids dont know anything about pct. besides not all info on internet is 100% all the time - it is easy to get confused or mixed up.
I never blindly believe in anything that someone says unless it can be backed up by science (Penis Enlargement included)... This is why i read and post studies to prove my claims. The info about anything and everything in available in books or online if you just look for it. I've used AAS on and off since the early to mid 90's and i was able to learn all this stuff back then.
[
Their are lots of good supplements from www.prosource.com which are affordable, safe and reliable.[/QUOTE]
I checked out this link and only found a computer training company.
Their are lots of good supplements from www.prosource.com which are affordable, safe and reliable.
[/QUOTE]I checked out this link and only found a computer training company.
he may mean this site
http://www.prosource.net/
http://www.prosource.net/
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swolejah
Guest
Steroids aren't worth it. I have plenty of info to back up if someone forces me to explain.
Once you get off of steroids, you shrink. No matter what anyone tells you.
Once you get off of steroids, you shrink. No matter what anyone tells you.
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pullups
Guest
swolejah said:
PCT....
swolejah said:
Why do you think they are not worth it?
Depends what you mean by shrink,alot of lads who use gear mistake water retention as muscle gain,when you finish a cycle you will loose the water bloat and with that some size but if pct is done correctly you can maintain muscle gains off cycle,there is of course only so much size each individual can carry on there frame naturally so once you get past that point gains will be nigh on impossible to keep.
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swolejah
Guest
They are for wimps. I've been lifting for 6 years and do fine without them. Why depend on a drug to get you huge? Real men don't use roids.
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swolejah
Guest
Never did I say I was more of a man than all of them.
And I knew someone was going to say that about the bodybuilders, someone always does and I believe it's a lousy thing to mention. The more people accept steroids the more it will likely become more common among teens and individuals.
Still, why would you depend on a drug? Bodybuilding and weights aren't about taking steroids and seeing who can get the biggest and have the most muscle separation. Also notice that alot of those guys look similar only in that they are massive and ripped. If nobody took them and they start caring more about testing for them in IFBB, I believe it would be more of a challenge.
Have you ever seen Ronnie's videos, Jay's video's, and Markus Ruhl's?
And I knew someone was going to say that about the bodybuilders, someone always does and I believe it's a lousy thing to mention. The more people accept steroids the more it will likely become more common among teens and individuals.
Still, why would you depend on a drug? Bodybuilding and weights aren't about taking steroids and seeing who can get the biggest and have the most muscle separation. Also notice that alot of those guys look similar only in that they are massive and ripped. If nobody took them and they start caring more about testing for them in IFBB, I believe it would be more of a challenge.
Have you ever seen Ronnie's videos, Jay's video's, and Markus Ruhl's?
no, but you insinuated that real men don't use AAS... since you don't use AAS then you must be a real man and everyone else who uses isn't...swolejah said:
It's a personal choice like drugs, sex, and the music you listen to... just because they don't agree with you doesn't make them less of a man. And for the record, calling AAS users less of a man is just plain ignorant and does little to dissuade people from using it. If you want to make a difference, try using a convincing arguemnt like it's side effects to make your point and convince people from using it.
Get real bro... if they didn't take steroids to get big then they wouldn't take it at all. You think the pros take it because they like the pimples, receding hairline, and all the other side effects?? Grow up and smell the coffee...
The IFBB doesn't enforce the testing for steroids because the fans want to see they pros get bigger every year. They want to see freaks not average joe's...
Yea, i have so what?? If you knew a little more about BB'ing, you'd be able to watch videos of each and and see a big difference between them.
swolejah said:
Whys it a lousy thing to mention,should we keep deluding people that its possible to build a mr O type physique naturally,steroid use is already wide spread amongst teenagers.
Bodybuilding wether natural or drug assisted IS about who can get the biggest and most muscle seperation.
If you took peds out of the IFBB it would cease to exist,the fans who pay to go to the shows are the hardcore and they want to see big mass monsters,they don't want to see 12-13 stone naturals.
Yes ive seen some of those videos and your point is what?
Steroids are a crutch, just like bench shirts. I don't care what anybody says, or what kind of PCT you use, you are going to lose your gains once you come off the juice. I personally know at least 5 guys who shrunk as fast as Mario after getting hit by Bowser. Does it always happen that fast? No. You may hold on to them for a minute, but you won't for long.
Unless you are pro bodybuilder, in the WWE, or the NFL. 'roids are pretty much a waste of your time. You aren't going to get back any of the money you shelled out for them, and you aren't going to keep what you got from them. What cracks me up is all the 'Roidboys, 50 or 60 lbs heavier than me, using the same or less weight than I am, and I don't even take a protein supplement right now. I just keep a well-balanced diet, with a little extra protein.
It is pretty silly to try and get ppl to believe that you can become a shredded-up 245 lb. behemoth without drugs. A personal choice it may be, like music, but listening to your music versus someone else's doesn't give you a bigass advantage over them. As for BB'ing, yeah, a few of them look distinctive but many starting to run together, just like the fitness models. "Skinny chic with implants #1, # 2 or #3?"
As for side effeects, well that depends. If you can afford the best stuff, you won't have as many to deal with, and counteracting them won't be a problem. Unless you can't stick yourself and decide to pickle your liver with orals. The physical stuff won't be too bad, but I have heard of some pros who now have so much scar tissue they can barely walk(no names mentioned there). But the ex-users I know say that the worst part is the psychological effect of being a sliver of what they were on the drugs.
Unless you are pro bodybuilder, in the WWE, or the NFL. 'roids are pretty much a waste of your time. You aren't going to get back any of the money you shelled out for them, and you aren't going to keep what you got from them. What cracks me up is all the 'Roidboys, 50 or 60 lbs heavier than me, using the same or less weight than I am, and I don't even take a protein supplement right now. I just keep a well-balanced diet, with a little extra protein.
It is pretty silly to try and get ppl to believe that you can become a shredded-up 245 lb. behemoth without drugs. A personal choice it may be, like music, but listening to your music versus someone else's doesn't give you a bigass advantage over them. As for BB'ing, yeah, a few of them look distinctive but many starting to run together, just like the fitness models. "Skinny chic with implants #1, # 2 or #3?"
As for side effeects, well that depends. If you can afford the best stuff, you won't have as many to deal with, and counteracting them won't be a problem. Unless you can't stick yourself and decide to pickle your liver with orals. The physical stuff won't be too bad, but I have heard of some pros who now have so much scar tissue they can barely walk(no names mentioned there). But the ex-users I know say that the worst part is the psychological effect of being a sliver of what they were on the drugs.
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pullups
Guest
I dont juice, I am against it. But if you run a pct of say clen, nolva, and clomid (and maybe creatine) you should keep the majority of your gains.
AlreadyPackin' said:
Explain how they are a crutch?,if you have never used steroids how can you say all the gains are lost,i'm much heavier and leaner off cycle than i ever was after 10 years of being natural.
If someone is using aas for bb then strength isn't really important to them so you may well be able to out lift them but you compare your lifts to a steroid using powerlifter and it will be a different matter.
aas can actually workout cheaper to buy than alot of over the counter supps that produce little to no gains.
No one is forcing you to backup your statement... we're asking you to. I'm always interested in reading any/all studies regarding the pro's and con's of AAS use.swolejah said:
Yes it's true that one will always lose a good amount of size once they go off AAS because alot of gains come from water and glycogen, but the loss can be minimized by carefull planning. Granted that most of the size that pro's carry will go away once they come off AAS because their gains are beyond what the body can sustain on its own. Without the additional protein synthesis from AAS, they just can't maintain their size. For most us mere mortals, the gains made thru AAS use can be sustained naturally with a very strict diet and exercize plan.
prince Albert said:
It would also be different if I were a powerlifter. Strength is not my main goal. Regardless, a big muscular dude getting outlifted by a much smaller, more muscular dude doesn't look right, and ppl are like "Huh?" You said you are leaner and heavier off-cycle than you ever were without, so have you quit using permanently, or do you mean just between cycles? Honest question, not a jab.
I should clarify my position a little better, though. I believe you can responsibly and reasonably use steroids. But I don't feel as if you're really earning what you get as opposed to not using them. In that sense they are a crutch. Also, having been in the scene for some time, I'm sure you meet those clowns who rely totally on the gear, and don't think they have to work that hard. Or those who just outright use them because they don't feel adequate. They're not magic, of course, but they provide more of an edge than most people comprehend. Around here, the cost of an average 5 or 600 mg a week cycle, with all the proper accoutrement costs a lot more than some whey and creatine. But you are definitely right, steroids have gotten way cheaper. I've seen Super-Drol for $28 a bottle.
sikdogg said:
Good post. As I said before, I should have explained myself better. I've been looking up studies about this, but none are very clear on how much you keep, just that you can keep some. Most seem to focus mainly on getting your test back to normal, which is more important anyway. I have noticed that the more someone has worked out and the better shape they are in before they get into the gear, the more gains they keep after getting off it. Maybe just a coincidence. Also it seems how much of your size you keep is inversely proportional to how much gear you used. And like you said, careful planning and strict regimen make a difference, but it all still amounts to taking a shitload of rugs.
As prince Albert correctly assumed, I have never partaken, so all my data is first-hand from others who have and do. People accuse me of it, and I have jokingly said I should do about an 8 or 10 week cycle to shut everyone up. One thing I have always found absurd is how alcohol and tobacco are legal, and they are extremely harmful, but are totally legal, regardless of how much death and despair they are tied into. 'Roids make you bigger and stronger, but are illegal. If I was ever to use ANY drug, it be them. At least they have a big upside.
AlreadyPackin' said:
Out of curiosity how much are you lifting?
No i 'm still running cycles and will do up to the point that i carn't maintain gains after pct,i take long periods off inbetween cycles,it is possible to maintain gains muscle gains off cycle and it is also possible to loose everything.Something to bare in mind is that water retention/bloat are not gains,its quite common to see lads balloon up 25-30lbs especially first time users and those who choose not to control the bloat,this will give the look of size but once the cycle finishes the water weight will be lost very quickly this will turn them into the shrinking man,also diet post cycle needs to be spot on,you would be suprised how many eat very well on cycle then off cycle let the diet slip.
Alot of nattys have this same view that aas users are cheating,the gains havn't been earned its not real gains whatever,thats there opinion but its strange how alot of these same lads are willing to take any OTC supp to make progress,whats the difference between increasing your test levels artificially and increasing your creatine levels artificially to make progress?
Cost probably is more in the states as your supps are cheaper than here in the uk and aas use is illegal over there but your allowed up to a 3month supply for personel use in the uk.
A 250mg amp of test enanth costs about £3.50,a protien bar costs £2.99 a brand name protien powder £30-35 for a 5lb tub which would last me about 5-6 days a big tub of celltech would set you back £79
REDZULU2003
Well-known member
Okay I'm interested in taking steroids, so anyone got any advice on which ones to take? which ones are the best, when to take, how much, where to buy, dosage, whatelse needs to be taken alongside.
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pullups
Guest
Test e and Deca for begginers, I've heard is the best. But remember that Post Cycle Therapy is extremly important, they might help negate some side effects.
REDZULU2003 said:
Red from your other posts you havn't been training very long,i would get a few years natural training under your belt first,unless your training and diet are spot on then you are wasting your time.
If you want to get decent advice join one of the large bb forums and look in the steroid forums,muscletalk is a very good uk board.