AlloyCG said:
Forgive me if I sound brutal, but you are wrong. On just about everything. It's obvious you think that circumcision shouldn't be practiced. I don't think it should be either. But your arguments are horrible.
No, the child won't remember. At that point, memory isn't functioning at a level that can even be called memory. Metacognition doesn't come for a LONG time.
Yes, some don't mind, and even prefer to be circumcized. That's OK. Some do mind. But, the negative consequences aren't widespread enough to pass legislature to end it.
It wasn't an uptight guy who started it. It was originally a prodecure suppodely declared by God to separate Jews and everyone else. In those days, it was probably safer to call foreskin a helth risk, as infections were common. In the Bible it is sometimes refered to as "unclean flesh." Whether that means anything to you or not, I don't know. Just some history.
Your breast analogy was poor. I don't think I really need to argue that one.
No doubt, circumcision is ridiculous. But come on guy, think a little bit.
Think alittle bit i have given this subject much thought i didnt just blurt out something that wasnt thought about! when i had my first son i was against circ. but lost the battle with my wife, with my second son i armed myself with what ever i could read on the subject this time i didnt lose and i also saved my two nefews from suffering the pain and suffering of routine amputations of there forskins. I DID THINK!!!
i was refering to modern routine circs. ( "The modern use of Hebrew circumcision as a medicalized practice dates from about 1865 in England and about 1870 in the US.9 The procedure accepted for medical use essentially was the Jewish peri'ah. Moscucci reports that circumcision was imposed in an attempt to
prevent masturbation.14 Gollaher further describes the history of medicalized circumcision.9 No scientific studies were carried out to determine the efficacy and safety of circumcision prior to its introduction into medical practice,9 nor were any studies conducted to determine the social effects of imposing genital alteration surgery on a large portion of the population.")
heres more for you to ponder.
"It started as an ancient Egyptian custom and there are wall carvings to prove it. It seems to have its origin in snake worship. The Egyptians believed that when the snake shed its skin, and emerged shiny and new again, it was undergoing rebirth. They reasoned that if, by shedding skin, the snake could become apparently immortal, then humans should follow suit. They made the simple equation: snakeskin = foreskin, and the operation began. From there it spread to many Semetic peoples, both Arabs and Jews adopting it and converting it into an act of religious faith. As the centuries passed, it became popular in other regions of the world for moral, medical, or hygenic reasons. " From the book, Babywatching by Desmond Morris.
Non-religious circumcision began in England inthe late 1800s and it became extremely popular in English-speaking countriesbetween 1920 and 1950. England introduced the practice to the U.S. At the time, it was believed that masturbation caused a host of differentillnesses. Masturbation was considered extremely immoral and many children,both male and female, have been circumcised throught the years because parentsdiscovered them "in the act." To this day, who doesn't remember thethreat associated with masturbation that "you'll go blind?"
It was known even in the late 1800s that the removalof the foreskin (the only moveable part of the penis) would reduce sexualsensitivity and restrict movement of the penile shaft.
A noted Jewish sage, Rabbi Moses Maimonides inhis Guide to the Perplexed, expressed the following:
"...people believe that circumcision is to remove a defect in man's formation... How can products of nature be deficient so as to require external completion, especially as the use of the foreskin to that organ is evident. This commandment has not been enjoined as a complement to a deficient physical creation, but as a means for perfecting man's moralshortcomings. ...Circumcision simply counteracts excessive lust; for thereis no doubt that circumcision weakens the power of sexual excitement,and sometimes lessens the natural enjoyment..."
It was believed that masturbation caused blindness,mental illness, alcoholism, epilepsy and a host of other ills. It thereforemade sense to some physicians that genital surgery would stop masturbationand prevent the onset of these illnesses.
"A remedy [for masturbation] which is almost alwayssuccessful in small boys is circumcision..." The operation should be performedby a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the pain attending theoperation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it beconnected with the idea of punisHydromaxent..." John Harvey Kellog, M.D., Treatmentfor Self-Abuse and Its Effects, Plain Facts for Old and Young, Burlington,Iowa; F. Segner & Co., 1888.
When it was finally realized that masturbationdid not cause illnesses, the foreskin became the blame for penile and cervical cancers, urinary tract infections and sexually transmitted diseases.
All of the medical reasons for circumcision have been eliminated by experts.Circumcised men are not immune to suffering from these diseases. The surgeryoffers no warranty.
Also with some of these statments above my breast anology was right on the money!!!!!
heres another anology, liken circ. to amputating someones toes to prevent an ingrown toenail.
Creation is an act of imagination, not science. Science puts the cogs in the clock, but an artist makes the watch beautiful, and it was an eccentric inventor more than likely that came up with the very concept of "clock".