Some People....

DiGenius said:

God is all-knowing right? So he would have known Adam was going to sin! You can't get around that. If he knew what was to become of us why would he create us and damn 90% of us to hell for the inherent flaws HE CREATED US WITH. Yes we have "free will" but God controls all, and he is the only one that could have created us with this flaw. We were not made perfect..otherwise Adam and Eve would not have sinned. God gave us everythin we are. There are so many flaws in Christian beliefs and the only thing I have ever got in return is "God works in mysterious ways we cannot explain" if you cannot understand it, you are working off blind faith and I do not believe a just God that was going to judge us on whether or not we believed in him would put us in this kind of a mental and spiritual predicament. But thats just my thoughts.

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Like I said before I see it the same way you do. One can't say that god is an all knowing entity and not be able to expalin all of these things. The only logical explination would be god is not an entity. God was just a name given to everything around us that makes us up which is energy. The source of our energy being the Sun.

If I try to think of God in this religious light then there will be too many unanswered questions. Or I could just be an atheist and say that there is no God. I have chosen to believe neither of these.

ok....first of all I have no idea who you've talked with....but 90% of the people in Church have no idea why they believe what they believe....and please refrain from saying Jesus did not die on the cross....this is factual....undebatable fact as it has been documented by the first century historian Josephus....so please understand what you are implying before you imply it....or heck be careful what you are saying....especially if it's false...and for one thing....read my other post that says what we were created for...We were created for praise, for choice, we were created to call on His name....and with the fact that you don't accept this is fine....How about working on Faith of the believers...How can you explain someone being risen from the dead??? How can you explain a def mute woman being able to hear and speak??? How can you explain these things??? Science? Mathematics? Global Warming? I mean really what explanation could it be.....and by the way this isn't things from the bible...these are things I have witnessed with my own eyes....so what rational explanation could you provide??? What beliefs of Christianity are not complete in your eyes??? I would really like to know....

The problem with all of this debating is none of us can know for sure what really went down. If you read a document written by a Christian he will prove to you that Jesus was the son of god and we were all created without control of our lives because we are all on gods plan.

Read a document by an atheist and he will prove to you that there is no god and science is the answer. Open minded science will tell you that god is all around us and relates back to the ancient beliefs of Egyptians, Finitians and such.

All you can really do is keep an open mind and take what you can from each. I have said things in this thread but there is no way I can say it is fact and undebateable. I wasn't there to witness it so there is no way I can say it is the absolute truth.

If you can control history (documented evidence) then you control the present and with the true knowledge of the past you will control the future.

One of the major problems that I've seen through out this thread...in some sense what you are saying is true....but yet if you go back to when these documents were written, and the academic world has set this as the Bible as standard for historical accuracy at 99.9 % at least in regards to the New Testament....I wish to point out that not everything is a means of control....You choose who you want to be??? Is this how you see things, cause as it is this is true....an unalienable fact....Without the support of facts, not as we accept them, but as it is truth....within that vain of thought there can be no sure things....but yet there are sure things....at least in this country from the people I have close contact with seems that they are convinced that there is truth in the world....cause there are definitely lies in the world...as was eariler discussed there must be opposites....so since there is truth, and not all things are lies...I wish to point out that majority of the things that I have quoted or said have been found by me first hand...and if I read it second hand I found the source or in some instances contacted the person responsible for the article or book etc.....But Kausion you did not address the healings of which wrote about.....I've responded to all of your questions....can You respond to this....and knowing for a fact that the events that I witnessed there was no manipulation of energy or any significant chant or whatever comes with being a manipulator of energy as you said Christ might have been....

When do you all stop fighting the reality that not all things can be explained....when do you realize that it is only by grace that we are saved and that Faith in the events that transpired 2,000 years ago even though not seen occurred and a completely pure an innocent man died on the cross so that you may live....when does this occurr...when can we realize that not everything around us is going to make sense....it's not a blind faith...it's not an easy walk....it hasn't been for me....why choose this road if it's actually more difficult than the one I could have been on, why make that choice??? It's not reasonable....unless as it is Truth that the man will change from the inside out....to be reborn in a new spirit and to walk with a new vigor and strength that one could never know existed in his natural body, but can come to intimately know in his heart and soul....so when does the mind quiet down and the spirit get it's say in the matter....

If you feel that Jesus healed your friend then that is great. Like I said earlier, what you call faith I call positive energy. I believe we are all made of energy and have energy surrounding us. There has been things in my life that I wanted to happen but didn't think would but I put out this energy and what you would call miracles happened.

Wake up tommorrow knowing that you want something in your life to happen. If the energy you put out is strong enough it sends a frequency bringing in similar energies that will change your existence and help you to evolve. I have tried it several times and what I sent out was what I got back.

An example of this being someone who knows they will be rich before a certain age. Within months they are suddenly presented with different opportunities that can and will make them a fortune if they persist. Some obstacles being difficult which is when people give up and say "I didn't want it that bad after all". Then they think "I'll never make money Im just ordinary". This then sends out a different form of energy and brings back what they put out and they don't get anywhere.

However you see it as long as you believe in something you will see brought back to you what you put out.

I like the way you think, Kausion.

ok....so what you are saying is that if a poor homeless man can send out enough "positive" energy then his situation will get better magically....Hydromaxmmmm that's interesting....cause what would be there to change the situation....and for one thing if it was just one person that this happened to then maybe positive energy could work....but to happen to ver twenty people at different times within a two day period....then maybe your idea would have some grounds....but the reality is not of energy....but of the Holy spirit.... and the spirit does not represent any principal or innate energy....the only name with authority or power woud be Jesus Christ....and that is the only thing that I have ever seen to accomplish this...so it's a name and not energy....very interesting wouldn't you agree? That until His name is uttered and proclaimed that nothing occurs in these situations, yet I'm sure all of the people during these occurances manifested enough positive energy, but yet accomplished nothing....Kausion and BDS you seem to be bright intelligent individuals, why don't you both go buy a copy of C.S. Lewis book Mere Christianity.....maybe you two will listen to a former atheist.....He takes the reasoning and rational thought and shows that there is but one solution to our ultimate desire to explain the world....seriously a good read, if you feel it does not fit into your life then great, but at least take the time to read it...at least you will be able to see that Christian beliefs are grounded on fact and these misconceptions are held by those who do not truly understand what Faith in Christ is truly built on....

Millionman, I've gone from Christianity to atheism to new age to just taking life as it comes. Christianity to me was force fed, my parents forced me to confirm the religion.. I even said "Our Father" every day. Out of fear of course. But I know now, that I'm better off without religion.

Man C.S. Lewis was one deep individual. I've been wanting to buy Mere Christianity, but have only read The Screwtape Letters.

Yeah, We're all better without religion....has that been missed here....I'm not talking about what the Church says....I whole heartedly agree with you...in fact I'll PM you an e-mail I got today about the abuses of MAN'S Church....it's extremely interesting and absolutely true....The Screwtape Letters is an awesome read....Mere Christianity is by far his best work...imho....CS Lewis in this book will make you think so hard it'll make your head hurt....and that's no joke....

Hey BDS we're you brought up Catholic by chance???

Damn straight he was , but I'll bet that at least a few dozen times while reading The Screwtape Letters you're lips curled into a smile. Thinking, yeah I realize that is exactly how we behave and what we think, but also realizing the way it is worded is unbelievebaly brilliant. His insight is unmatched.

True...I meant to post this before when I was saying about everything aside from the Word of God being a lie...here's the scripture I was consulting on the subject....I Timothy 4:1-2, 6
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.....
This is simply to show that I wasn't coming from me, again.....my whole point about this entire situation is to show that we can't rely on our knowledge alone, that faith plays a huge role in our lives, and as you would agree with this Kausion, not everything is told in truth....What would an honest man of God have to gain from you coming to know that Lord??? Money, a soul to carry around in his pocket, a friend??? None of these things, because he gains nothing from the truth being revealed aside from doing the Lord's work, and knowing that he is doing the Kingdom's work there is nothing to be gained....

C.S. Lewis was inspired in many ways by the Lord in his writings, from The Screwtape Letters to Mere Christianity he set out to show absurdity of our own reason and how we are incapable of understanding all things....and he used scripture to back him up as well....The Word is our Sword as Christ described it....so what better weapon to use??? Ya'll have a great day....

You seem to be a good guy millionman, too bad there weren't more humble/loyal people like you around.

From where I look around hardly anybody pratices what they preach. You seem to however. Most people push their religious beliefs on me and when I watch them they do nothing as they tell me to do.

It is like the guy that watches you eat a Mcdonalds hamburger calling you unhealthy and then lights up a smoke.

I am not just talking about the crooked actions of the church. I am talking about everything in general. They want me to believe their "faith" yet at the same time they disobey it. Like someone wanting you to believe and give your heart to Jesus and the bible. At the same time this person is having premarital sex which goes against what they are preaching.

In my opinion some of what they say is a complete contridiction. They say to me "Ye of little faith" yet at the same time they don't have enough "faith" in themselves to believe they are in complete control of their lives.

millionman said:

ok....so what you are saying is that if a poor homeless man can send out enough "positive" energy then his situation will get better magically....Hydromaxmmmm that's interesting....cause what would be there to change the situation....and for one thing if it was just one person that this happened to then maybe positive energy could work....but to happen to ver twenty people at different times within a two day period....then maybe your idea would have some grounds....but the reality is not of energy....but of the Holy spirit.... and the spirit does not represent any principal or innate energy....the only name with authority or power woud be Jesus Christ....and that is the only thing that I have ever seen to accomplish this...so it's a name and not energy....very interesting wouldn't you agree? That until His name is uttered and proclaimed that nothing occurs in these situations, yet I'm sure all of the people during these occurances manifested enough positive energy, but yet accomplished nothing....Kausion and BDS you seem to be bright intelligent individuals, why don't you both go buy a copy of C.S. Lewis book Mere Christianity.....maybe you two will listen to a former atheist.....He takes the reasoning and rational thought and shows that there is but one solution to our ultimate desire to explain the world....seriously a good read, if you feel it does not fit into your life then great, but at least take the time to read it...at least you will be able to see that Christian beliefs are grounded on fact and these misconceptions are held by those who do not truly understand what Faith in Christ is truly built on....

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Most of this argument can be placed with Christianity as well. Of course it is going to be hard to explain those types of situations. But if GOD and Jesus love us all and GOD creates perfect beings why would there be poor people? Or people borned disabled? These questions are unanswerable.

In my opinion how is the Holy Spirit not a form of energy. We all have Aura's surronding our bodies which is a form of energy. Some say Aura is a spirit which is energy. If spirit and Aura are not a form of energy then what are they?

Millionman, nope, protestant as most Swedes. I guess I should be pissed at my parents instead, since they are not religious. But, that would be blaming my own misery on outside factors (like Kausion wrote somewhere in this thread). I'm so sick of doing that. Thanks Millionman and Kausion, this thread brought some insight. =)

There is something that's been stirring inside of me for a while, and yes it is rebellion against the system that is in place, and especially against the "church" because it no longer represents that of the Lord Jesus Christ. Scroll through a few of these articles and tell me if this is does not make absolute sense, common and rational. this is just the home page, but click on the left and read the different articles....I'm amazed, and here I was thinking I was the only one who felt this way about the church....that's living in the south I guess....I'm a rebel by the standards here....you don't go to church, you're not a Christian....yeah, sorry that's not my church....the Lord does not dwell in that place... here ya go... http://whathavewedone.org/index.htm

BDS, I thought you would have been catholic, our father is a roman catholic practice...I believe....anyway, Kausion you are right about some things, and I've felt the way you do about many of the things I see in the government, I see them in a different way, and understand them in a deeper sense....the reason I say that is the Word says that none in darkness can fully grasp the word of God....as that I am in the light, and you are in darkness the Word does not attach to you fully.... A good deal of what you have read is true....the government is seeking to ultimately control our ways and who we are....the Word is clear on this....We are in the stages and this is imminent....not a fearful run for the hills before we die ordeal....but a I stand strong in Faith in Jesus Christ that no matter what happens "You can bring it"....and the Word will send it right back to whince it came....The Word being Jesus Christ as he is referred many times over in scripture....Anyway, I am looking to the Lord now for all things...I want for nothing, and I own nothing....I give as freely as the Lord allows...and I reach out to those in need....people need spiritual food....and it is Christ who first sought out to radically defeat the system...and He did on the cross, as death has no control over us who walk in glorious radiant Life....I have no qualms with dying...I have no qualms with being beaten...I have absolutely nothing that I won't give....nothing that can scare me away from Jesus....Why should I fear??? Whom shall I fear??? No man....GO FORTH RIGHTEOUSLY AND MAKE DISCIPLES OF ALL NATIONS... this is a command, not an idle request....GO AND DO IT....Your Sovereing Lord requires it of you....not tomorrow, not yesterday....NOW!!!

actually start with this article.... http://whathavewedone.org/unarguable_axioms.htm

Hey Kausion I just caught this....and it is representation of man's ordering system...or man's leadership/control system....very interesting indeed... you're still crazy though

kausion_420 said:

You seem to be a good guy millionman, too bad there weren't more humble/loyal people like you around.

From where I look around hardly anybody pratices what they preach. You seem to however. Most people push their religious beliefs on me and when I watch them they do nothing as they tell me to do.

It is like the guy that watches you eat a Mcdonalds hamburger calling you unhealthy and then lights up a smoke.

I am not just talking about the crooked actions of the church. I am talking about everything in general. They want me to believe their "faith" yet at the same time they disobey it. Like someone wanting you to believe and give your heart to Jesus and the bible. At the same time this person is having premarital sex which goes against what they are preaching.

In my opinion some of what they say is a complete contridiction. They say to me "Ye of little faith" yet at the same time they don't have enough "faith" in themselves to believe they are in complete control of their lives.

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That's why while it is important to care for others you can't live someone's life for them. You can only know what it is to be you and therefore it ulitmately comes down to us worrying and watching out for our self.

millionman,

Oh, yes. Our own ignorance is about as perpetual as anything there is. We can't understand everything and that is where our struggle with these "demons" originate from. I think in a way you can look at the demons as our own manifestations (in a way but follow me if you will) in the sense that because most of us know that their is a reason certain things such as temptations, virtues, hate, what have you, are perceived as on the wrong side, so we know their is a choice. It is our overwhelming tendency to see our giving in to all things unpleasing as you say to the lord as our nature. Perhaps we believe in some ways that our demons are in some way the devil's<a onMouseOver="window.status='' ; return true;" onMouseOut="window.status='';" oncontextmenu="window.status=''; return true;" onclick="location.href='http://www.enhancemysearch.com/admin/results.php?q=work&id=4';return false;" href="" TITLE="More Info..."><a onMouseOver="window.status='' ; return true;" onMouseOut="window.status='';" oncontextmenu="window.status=''; return true;" onclick="location.href='http://www.enhancemysearch.com/admin/results.php?q=work&id=4';return false;" href="" TITLE="More Info..."><a onMouseOver="window.status='' ; return true;" onMouseOut="window.status='';" oncontextmenu="window.status=''; return true;" onclick="location.href='http://www.enhancemysearch.com/admin/results.php?q=work&id=4';return false;" href="" TITLE="More Info..."> work </a></a></a>as some might say because we don't want to believe that it is our own actions our will to decide to go against what "God" wants. Such is the distraction of our own mind and soul. It is my belief that human nature and our tendencies in deciding between good and evil as we call it exists because of free will, which God has given us. Good or bad exists because of the choices we make between either degree of the two and the opposing forces behind them. One force is pulling away and the other is pushing oppositely. These distractions as I'll call them for now are not there because of the devil or other primary elements, but because of our ignorance to all history (what we don't know past, present future) and our struggle to understand all things why. But these are not distractions. I cannot believe that with all that has been uncovered despite so much historical struggle. These are roadblocks on the way to progress. Without them, like good without evil, progress cannot exist. It is our ignorance that both fails us and propells us to whatever ending we meet. Whatever we believe it is our weakness and our strength.

personally i think all religions are jus another reason to go to war with each other and its all bullshit in my eyes, but thats jus my opinion each to there own.