Opinions on Jesus Christ

Has anyone not read what I have said as far as the "christian" religion? Matthew 23:8-10
Mat 23:8 But don't you be called 'Rabbi,' for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers.
Mat 23:9 Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. Mat 23:11 But he who is greatest among you will be your servant.
Mat 23:12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Mat 23:13 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and as a pretense you make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
Mat 23:14 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men; for you don't enter in yourselves, neither do you allow those who are entering in to enter.
Mat 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel around by sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much of a son of Gehenna as yourselves.

In this Christ is speaking to the religious leaders of the day, as they set themselves above everyone else as "righteous" and "holy" as they were keepers of the law. This is the same institution that can currently be seen in the "church". My point is that Jesus would have dealt with our current "leaders" as he dealt with the pharisees. These people are keeping people from living the LIFE that Christ gives that we would not be shackled to the laws of religion and the rituals of man but free in Him.

Swank, you seem to have an idea of which you speak, but it is clear that you do not have any idea because if you had any clue as to which truth you are speaking to then you would in no way put islam and christianity (as ministered to in the New Testament not the current "religion" they are two different realities) in the same sentence or context. One is based on villance and hatred for anyone opposed to their view, while the other only seeks to unburden men and to share the LOVE of our Father in Heaven. There is such a stark contrast between the two that you can not mention them in the same general context because of the drastic contrast in their core beliefs. As for any other discussion of Faith I would gladly meet you on it and discuss it openly. As for anyone else who would like to know more about Jesus with questions or anything that may come to mind feel free to post. If you have had a bad experience with the "church" or have had issues with people who called themselves "christian" we can talk about that too. Whatever needs to be brought into the light let it be brought and shown here in this thread. Everyone is welcome.

I believe that it is good to debate these things but when people think that they know for certain the way things are is when trouble starts. In my opinion it is impossible to know the truth for certain. Instead it is much better to believe i.e. have faith.

It is impossible to prove whether or not God exists, physically or logically. Those that choose to believe in God or not must do so with an open mind. Many wars and many problems in society have been created by those that are certain that they know. It is when two groups of people that both believe that they 'know' meet that problems arise.

It is important for atheists to understand that it is impossible to disprove the existence of God just as it is impossible to prove His existence.

Personally I have read a lot of philosophy from David Hume to Taoism and my conclusion is that the more we understand that we know nothing the more we really know. Then it is possible to believe what we choose, but always appreciating that it is not definite.

The most important thing for the future is tolerance and morality. As a human race we need to embrace each other and our individual beliefs. We need to do what is right. I believe that when we do something immoral either for our own apparent gain or in the name of some grossly misunderstood scripture, we go against nature or God's will, if you want to see it that way.

Finally, we need to understand that on a very deep level we are all of one consciousness and that when we harm others we also harm ourselves and everyone else, including all animals insects and even life on other planets (if there is any). In other words all of God's creatures.

So I am not an atheist but equally not religious. I believe that it is not possible to know whether there is a God or not. I am of the 'don't know' mind.

Tom out.

tomdw: you shoud look into agnosticism. It fits your statements quite nicely. Forgive me if you've already investigated the ideas on your own, that was just the general tone I sensed from your post.

As far as me putting Islam and Christianity in the same arena . . . well they are based on the same essential texts and ideas. Chrsitianity itself is widely divided in terms of interpritation and understanding between various sects and individuals. All the same, they do spring from the same idea of a monotheistic concept and dirive their ideas from similar texts. The difference is in personal interpriation of different segments of scripture, but the basic faith is overshelmingly similar. It is my understanding that for the great majority of Muslims, their faith dicates a life of peace and and tolerance, not contradictorary to the basic teachings of Christ (check out the autobiography of Malcom X)

It is my belief that religion, either on the small cult level, or the major 'mainstream' world of belief, is simply a surrender of logic and rationality. Any religion is essentially bolstered by an unquestioning faith in a supernatual entity that controls the fate of all activities on earth. I personally find this to be totally unsupported by everthing that we have learned about the natual world through emperical testing and precise, logical analysis. Religion constantly battles the overwhelmingly solid conclusions of scinece and investigation, always, in my opinion, coming up gaspingly short of any substantial responce. Cold as it may seem, I think people com to believe in relgion because of misguided personal factors and a lack of understanding about science and logical ractionality. All the same, I don't think religion is harmful, but at the same time I give it essentially no credit. the same criteria that people place on beliveing in Jesus as the one true god is the same level of faith that they apply to believing that man was created by space aliens. Only the rhectoric and financial means shift from one argument to another.

Science and rationality simply exist on their own terms - religion and blind belief constantly struggle to remain realistic in the face of provable and observable actions. Anybody that thinks that their particular system of faith (there are thousands of religions recored and currently practiced) is holding their world view in nothing but a leap of pure faith in stories which they have been told by other men. Religion is nothing but an irrational and unsupported belief in things that make no sense and cannot be proved. I'm sorry if that offends some, but from where I'm standing it's an entirely accurate assesment.

Swank said:

But, uh, head for the door if they start handing out kool-aid or anything . . .

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LOL!
Swank, you remind me a lot of me. Have you ever taken the Myers-Briggs test?

Swank said:

It is my belief that religion...is simply a surrender of logic and rationality.

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That is why it's called faith, my friend.

millionman said:

Swank, you seem to have an idea of which you speak, but it is clear that you do not have any idea because if you had any clue as to which truth you are speaking to then you would in no way put islam and christianity (as ministered to in the New Testament not the current "religion" they are two different realities) in the same sentence or context. One is based on villance and hatred for anyone opposed to their view, while the other only seeks to unburden men and to share the LOVE of our Father in Heaven. There is such a stark contrast between the two that you can not mention them in the same general context because of the drastic contrast in their core beliefs.

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Hey millionman, before you start spanking Swank, I think that you'd better check your "facts" about Islam. You're spouting a bunch of vitriol and, ahem, bullshit, frankly. Perhaps you should try reading the Holy Qur'an before you pass judgement on Islam. But first, chew on this: God = Allah = YHWH. They're the same god, brother.

Peace!

Hey millionman what do you think of the theory of the marriage of Jesus and Mary Magdalene?

My friend if you had any clue as to what the symbols of Islam mean and what they are connected to and what god they worship isn't a god it is satan. If you doubt it then you my friend should do a bit of study on the topic. For you to say that allah=yahweh is not true on any level, and I know this for a fact. Regardless of what you may think or how your "logical" mind may work it is obvious that they do not serve the same God as we do because of the call to violence in their word, and they are RELIGION not faith. Mandatory prayer everyday towards mecca (which if you do research on was where the ancients had their rituals and human sacrifices), as well as the mandatory chants etc. As far as chanting goes it is always associated with satan worship not what El Shaddei. Again I point out the fact that FAITH is not religion at all, walking with Christ is not a sysytem of rules or even moral standards. It is Life, as it is not something that you decide to do because in Galatians Paul admonishes the church by saying you have begun in the Spirit and now are attempting to complete these works in the flesh. It is spiritual life not fleshly life, and all things in us are not accomplished according to man's sight or man's rules but according to Yeshua. This does not call for some religious system but for a walking and action Faith, by action I do not simply mean behavior as how you should or should not do, but as to what Yahweh reveals and calls us to.

If this Faith were made up then why whould it include this exchange between Peter and Jesus?

Mat 16:15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven; and whatever you release on earth will have been released in heaven."
Mat 16:20 Then he commanded the disciples that they should tell no one that he is Jesus the Christ.
Mat 16:21 From that time, Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and the third day be raised up.
Mat 16:22 Peter took him aside, and began to rebuke him, saying, "Far be it from you, Lord! This will never be done to you."
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, for you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of men."
Mat 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, and whoever will lose his life for my sake will find it.
Mat 16:26 For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life?
Mat 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will render to everyone according to his deeds.

In the above passages not only does Jesus bless Peter and speak to him about being the one to establish the Body on the Earth, but only a few moments later rebukes him by saying away from me satan. For one of his disicples to be chastised in such a manner would not need to be put into a false gospel, but if it is true then this shows us our ability to be Spirit led and operating in His knowledge and not ours and it also shows our ineptitude at discerning our own deisres over the Father's will. The bottom of this passage is what you will not see the religious leaders and the sheep of these men do, they will have their posessions, their comfort, and their will over His. These are not fit to follow after Jesus as He says himself that if you are not willing to lay down your life for His life then you can not follow Him, it is quite clear.

As far as proving God's existence I think this article is a spot on example of how one would see God if they did not have their mind made up regardless of the evidence http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

For some info on Islam http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

TOMDW, that is what the new agers want you to believe as well as the ecumenical movement of the current soon to be apostate church. It is pure drivel and God speaks clearly to that and says that Light and Darkness have nothing in common as that they can not dwell in the same body. It is also clear when Jesus said that I have come to divide brother from brother, son from father etc. He is not about unity in any way, outside of unity in Himself. The only way for their to be unity is for the religious to forget their religion and follow after Christ and Christ alone, and that is the Truth not as I see it but how it is in His Holy and Righteous Word.

Um, I thought Muslims and Christians and Jews all believed in the same god, just different texts and prophets. They certainly all spring form the same source. I can't keep up with all this textual interpritation minutia and such, but I'm pretty such sure that Muslims don't believe they're worshipping the devil, if I read that part correctly. Anyway I'm done with this as I've finally learned I'm not going to sway anybody's opinion on the nature of the universe by posting on an internet forum . . .

If faith makes you happy, then embrace it. If not having faith makes you happy, you can come drink a beer with me. Faith guys can come to, but you're buying, and nobody gets to talk about god.

Swank said:

Um, I thought Muslims and Christians and Jews all believed in the same god, just different texts and prophets. They certainly all spring form the same source. I can't keep up with all this textual interpritation minutia and such, but I'm pretty such sure that Muslims don't believe they're worshipping the devil, if I read that part correctly. Anyway I'm done with this as I've finally learned I'm not going to sway anybody's opinion on the nature of the universe by posting on an internet forum . . .

If faith makes you happy, then embrace it. If not having faith makes you happy, you can come drink a beer with me. Faith guys can come to, but you're buying, and nobody gets to talk about god.

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LOL! Spot on.

Millionman, brother, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you're views are so messed up that I can't even begin to tell you how wrong you are. Sorry.

So, Swank, do you like stout?

Peace

millionman said:

Aces...You have to understand one very important fact,

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No I don't. I fucking hate anything to do with jesus or judiasm. Jesus was a racist.

So instead of regarding the informatino presented you merely bruch it off and say I'm not changing my mind so I'm not going to continue in this discussion regardless of the information presented.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not listen to the sound doctrine, but, having itching ears, will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts;
2Ti 4:4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside to fables.


Paul's defense to the court of Festus
Act 26:22 Having therefore obtained the help that is from God, I stand to this day testifying both to small and great, saying nothing but what the prophets and Moses said would happen,
Act 26:23 how the Christ must suffer, and how, by the resurrection of the dead, he would be first to proclaim light both to these people and to the Gentiles."
Act 26:24 As he thus made his defense, Festus said with a loud voice, "Paul, you are crazy! Your great learning is driving you insane!"
Act 26:25 But he said, "I am not crazy, most excellent Festus, but boldly declare words of truth and reasonableness.
Act 26:26 For the king knows of these things, to whom also I speak freely. For I am persuaded that none of these things is hidden from him, for this has not been done in a corner.
Act 26:27 King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know that you believe."
Act 26:28 Agrippa said to Paul, "With a little persuasion are you trying to make me a Christian?"
Act 26:29 Paul said, "I pray to God, that whether with little or with much, not only you, but also all that hear me this day, might become such as I am, except for these bonds."
Act 26:30 The king rose up with the governor, and Bernice, and those who sat with them.
Act 26:31 When they had withdrawn, they spoke one to another, saying, "This man does nothing worthy of death or of bonds."
Act 26:32 Agrippa said to Festus, "This man might have been set free if he had not appealed to Caesar."

Prophetic word of our current day and the manner in which we live as well as to the religious leaders of this current day having turned from sound doctrine to foolishness, be ye not deceived by false prophets.
Rom 1:17 For in it is revealed God's righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, "But the righteous shall live by faith."
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because that which is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse.
Rom 1:21 Because, knowing God, they didn't glorify him as God, neither gave thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and traded the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves,
Rom 1:25 who exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. For their women changed the natural function into that which is against nature.
Rom 1:27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural function of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another, men doing what is inappropriate with men, and receiving in themselves the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:28 Even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil habits, secret slanderers,
Rom 1:30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful;
Rom 1:32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them.

Racin77db:
As far as Jesus being married there is no basis of this in or outside of Scripture. Peter is known to have been married and is written of in the Word, as marriage is a glorious event and Life in God's sight and that this is the primary image of Christ and His Love for His Bride. His Bride is the body of Christ, and this is the absolute reason that He would have never been married as it was not part of the Father's plan as His Bride still awaits the Bridegroom's return.

I refused to read your post due to the lack of facts. You just turned to a page in the bible to justify what you cannot explain using the creative side of your mind. I do not believe in the bible, and am verbally violent against christian's that invade me. I never, never go around telling them the word of ODIN, because no one will give a shit. To them, paganism is sili. To me, chrisianity, mormanism, catholicism, etc. is all jewish paganism. I hate it.

I am a euro man, and I follow the same gods my ancestors did before christianity even existed. You are wasting your time by argueing with me, millionman.

In all honesty I respect you for trying to convert people, but you need to go easy. If you were in my house acting like that, I would take action....if you catch my drifter. When the people of god invaded scandinavia, we gave you hell. You lit us on fire, burning high at the stakes with the love of christ were the people of ODIN. I am still standing here, centuries have passed, mighty were the fathers of the norsemen....and in myself, they have returned. I am a fucking Viking, and no man of god will change my ways.

No I don't. I fucking hate anything to do with jesus or judiasm. Jesus was a racist.

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Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 If you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to promise.

Jesus was Jewish as to fulfill the Prophecy's in regards to Him and his existence. He was not jewish to separate anyone, and the Apostle Paul makes that quite clear as seen in the above text from Galatians 3:28-29. Here is an instance of Peter speaking at the home of a gentile man and is proclaiming the Truth of no division between Jew and Gentile:


Act 10:34 Peter opened his mouth and said, "Truly I perceive that God doesn't show favoritism;
Act 10:35 but in every nation he who fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.
Act 10:36 The word which he sent to the children of Israel, preaching good news of peace by Jesus Christ-he is Lord of all-
Act 10:37 that spoken word you yourselves know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
Act 10:38 even Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
Act 10:39 We are witnesses of everything he did both in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they also killed, hanging him on a tree.
Act 10:40 God raised him up the third day, and gave him to be revealed,
Act 10:41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen before by God, to us, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
Act 10:42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that this is he who is appointed by God as the Judge of the living and the dead.
Act 10:43 All the prophets testify about him, that through his name everyone who believes in him will receive remission of sins."
Act 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who heard the word.
Act 10:45 They of the circumcision who believed were amazed, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was also poured out on the Gentiles.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speaking in other languages and magnifying God. Then Peter answered,
Act 10:47 "Can any man forbid the water, that these who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we should not be baptized?"
Act 10:48 He commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay some days.

We do not hate anyone; we are here to love and to annoint with oil. We are not here to condemn into Hell but to give the gift of Life through our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, that none should experience damnation but come to a saving Grace of Jesus Christ. Let all come and receive Him that they too would receive Life everlasting, and release from the bonds of this world and live freely.

Yes I turn to the SWORD of the Lord. I could use my mind to refute whatever comes up as an issue, as I understand the facts and can argue for them, but I choose to not venture of the Rock of the Lord which is Jesus Christ. I have read of Odin and the violvent nature of this pagan belief system, and you are wrong in believing that it were Christians who burned the norsemen. There were times of war between the norse and the english, also norsemen and other scandinavian people did battle throughout the years as well. As I understand it, the christians were the ones that were burned by the norsemen, not the other way around. If you are referring to the inquisition or the crusades these were not led by christians but by the Catholic regime that in no way represents the House of the Lord, and again you can learn about this by looking into their theology.

Millionman,

Really...do you realize how absurd you look right now? Some friendly advice: give it a rest. This is a Penis Enlargement website, not your bully pulpit.

God loves you man, be happy with that.

Peace
Pri

Jesus in his time contradicted everything that existed. He was trying to inaugurate a new way of living with the potential to put war and prejudice away completely. He replaced the old testament's "eye for an eye" with "love your enemy" , he let women minister along side him, and that was really radical considering at that time women were second class citizens. Jesus would without a doubt in my mind deal with these religious leaders today the exact same way he delt with the pharisses and saducees. I think the church is just society-sanctioned brainwashing, you dont have to bow down and worship a piece of wood to follow Jesus. A piece of wood in the shape of a cross means nothing. A cross is not the Christ. Over 10,000 criminals were crucified on crosses during Jesus' lifetime.

Priap, one question, who am I bullying? Do you feel bullied? You shouldn't, but my friend Truth is Truth. For many men on this website the point out many things about Christ but the question is do they know anything about Him other than what someone told them. I'm not telling them anything, that's why I am posting from the Word. I am not venturing into this is what I say or this is what I think, this is WHAT IS!!! There is a tremendous difference between speaking from a pulpit and speaking to men where they are. I am not elevating myself above anyone or proclaiming that I have some insight into the other realm that is earth shattering or so striking that someone would absolutely listen to me. I am presenting the Truth as it is, as it can be verified through the original texts of Greek and Hebrew that what I am posting are the words of the God-Man Jesus, and His Apostles and what they truly say vs. what the gathering together of what is known as "church" says as the truth. From what I have read from the men in this thread alone that many have never been told about Christ as He is, not as someone might think him to be or may perceive him to be.

I fully understand that this is a Penis Enlargement website, but in all honesty why would that bother me. Jesus hung out with tax-collectors, fisher men, liars, cheats, and thieves. So why would I not share the Truth on this website? There's nothing wrong with sharing on this website is there? Other people can post their beliefs, why shouldn't I? Am I limited because what I have to say burns men to their innermost being? Am I limited because these words carry weight and can change a man's life in an instant? Why should I be kept quiet, but everyone else has free reign? I can tell you why, it is because the name of Jesus Christ offends, the cross offends, and the offer of salvation offends, because it's hard. It's not an easy walk of Faith, it requires much but much was given so that I may have the chance to go before the Father, so that I may dwell in His heaven. I am fortunate enough to be able to say anything of the Lord, but I pray his blessings to all of you. Now why would anyone want me to be silenced, if they can gain eternal salvation but did not know how it was obtained? It costs nothing and is freely given. So why would someone not want something free that would change them inside and out, and turn everything upside down and inside out, that everything would become new and fresh. I've lived this, my world has been turned all kinds of ways and it has been the greatest time of my life and my friends it is so much better than I imagined, but it costs. It's not an easy road, but Christ has walked this path and that we walk with Him and give up ourselves so that He is Lord and releases us from the bondage of sin and shame, so that we can walk freely with no burdens of tomorrow or the next day, but everyday is brand new and having Faith in Him and His Life is a blessing to me and to all that would receive Him. That is the Truth, and I am living proof.

Well, I thought I would ad my nickels worth here...

I am agnostic. I believe the Bible for the most part to be written by a war-like tribe of
nomadic people. I do believe there is a "god", but not in the context that most religions would have you to believe.

kooky

Millionman, You sound as if you are absolutely certain about all of these things. You sound as if you believe that there is no way that you could be wrong. You can justify this by quoting a book (the Bible) but I could quote a book that goes against everything that you say.

I realize that you believe that the Bible is sacred and is the truth but what if I had a book which I believed to be the same thing i.e the Koran. We would both be entirely sure that what we knew was the only truth and that the other was being unholy.

Then we would start to argue and because we were both sooo sure that we are right in the name of Allah or the Lord we would fight and kill each other. In doing so we would go against the precise message of both of the books that we have read and obviously misunderstood.

It is this arrogant, narrow minded attitude that has caused so many deaths in the past and I am sure will continue to.

I really hope that you can open your mind and try to understand that you have faith. Which in it's self is not at all a bad thing but it is faith and you cannot prove that you are right you can only believe it. It is important to understand that you could be wrong and therefore become a little more tolerant of other peoples opinions.

The real bad things that happen are death and suffering and most of them have come from wars which were carried out by people that misunderstood religion.