Opinions on Jesus Christ

I want to know what the members of this forum think about Jesus of Nazareth??? Who was he??? Just say what you think, It's clear what my views are, but I want to hear what you guys think.

I believe He was and is the Son of God. That He was and is the Messiah written about in the OT.

That He lived and died to make an everlasting statement and to allow everyone the opportunity to enter the Kingdom. It worked very well.

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Frankly, while I totally respect everyones right to believe in what they want I find it very hard to believe that a text written thousands of years ago, and then translated probably a thousand times or more has any credibility of any kind. Did Jesus exist? Who knows. Does God exist? Who knows.

While some people are willing to take such things purely on faith, I am not. I'm grounded in the real world but that's not the disparage anyone elses beliefs here. I kind of view Jesus/God much like the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

i believe there was a jesus, and i do believe that he was a holy man. however there are other holy men too with evidence that they existed. like buddha. he was a prince and was doccumented as being so, and they even have his ashes burried in a stupa "holy burial ground"...at least that's the best way to explain it. i recently became a taoist, and before hand i was raised unitarian. i was raised believing jesus was a great person, helped out many and was very close with god, some believed he was the son, others didn't. however he was a man, period..though he was an extraordinary man. after he died he did become more, and is the jesus of the trinity. taosim opened up my mind thinking that with reincarnation, maybe the other dieties are forms of jesus himself. buddha, maybe he was the reincarnation of jesus christ. one of the church members created a painting of jesus, buddha, siva, and all the other dieties together in heaven. he saw it in his dream and put it right onto the canvas. i found that to hold true to what i believe. in my mind, being open to spirituality and the love of nature and graditude of life, then you're on the way to the kingdom of heaven.

alright so i got carried away with the answer lol. but you get the gist of it

I did not have that much pure faith, which is a sin of course. I had to investigate all the documentation and evidence of Christ, and come to well thought out conclusions.

Writing came into common use about 4300 years ago. Up until then, the majority of Genesis was passed along, mainly by word of mouth. By the time of Christ, the ability to keep an, at least semi-permanent record, was possible.

IMO, this record has been passed down, and translated, fairly accurately for this relatively small amount of time. There are small, relatively insignificant glitches in the record. But much of the history recorded can be cross-referenced in other documentation. There is enough evidence for me to believe anyway. But you have to do a lot of research to find the evidence.

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Presently, I think too much of what is intended to be based upon belief or faith is actually based on what we know or what we are told. This places doubt in our minds. There could be something that is found tomorrow that we had no idea existed that absolutely proves or disproves the existence of God, but whether or not that will ever happen doesn't matter. It's what you place faith in that matters not where denial meets undeniable proof. Everything that's been said has been said before and everything that was or is exists in this world because we know it exists. So while I find it hard to believe that we are something special to the degree of being the creation of the divine I still think that since we do exist everything else does therefore without us there is nothing capable of "realizing" or "knowing" the things of the world and universe. So in that we Are special or unique. I do think that the human race can end by its own accord however, which makes me wonder about the reasoning behind our existence more than how we came to be. Anyway, I don't know about the belief in Christ. I think he is my Lord and savior, but I don't exactly know why. I guess I have my doubts, but again it's because I want more than enough proof. Other than that I believe in one God and it's because of all the things that we do not know yet. Every year more discoveries are made and even while we don't necessarily understand more every year that doesn't mean that day we are shown the truth will not come. (I think that was about the most understandable triple negative ever written. hahaha)

Jesus was the Son of God. That does not mean he is God, though. Jesus stated many times over that he is not God, but rather that he is in a relationship (which requires two people) with God in the mood of a loving servant. That Jesus was God's only son does not make sense to me, if God didn't create me and everyone else, who did? Jesus was shaktivesa avatar, or an incarnation of the energy of God, just like Buddha was. Buddha was the 9th avatar of Vishnu. Jesus came, like many others, to show us how to engage in a pure loving relationship with God. That in no way implies that he is God, though. Jesus is guru, though, so if you serve and love him purely, he will bring you to God. And there is only one God; Jesus was His pure devotee, His pure servant simply carrying out His orders. Also there was writing in Sanskrit since time immemorial, and there are Sanskrit documents which date over 5200 years ago called the Vedas, from which many religions have sprung.

Jesus is a holy martar for god, he's like a soldier of god.
He died for something he belived in.
Hey I aint a bible basher, but I belive in jesus and god.
I dont think that jesus is the BIG picture like the church might paint, he IMHO is just a martar or holy warrier god sent to make a point. GOD Is the PICTURE and he IS again IMHO the UNIVERSE, god iseverywhere and I belive our very life paths have some influence on them from god. I dont think we have a set path that has been laid, but bestway to describe what I mean is we [some] have tendencys to have certain things happen more than others, or prone to it more than others. Some get more bad luck, some more good etc etc and I belive some has a role with GOD....NOT JESUS but god.
The supernatural is the gateway to that world, I have touched the otherside and I belive more than ever that death is just the start of life. I sometimes thank the lord, ask him for strength....I wear a celtic silver and celtic gold cross.....I have faith, albeit I dont preach it. Wouldnt mind myseld getting more into the bible, but I dont wonna get so into it that I know it verse for verse. Again to answer the thread, incase my answer got lost - Christ is a martar of god, a holy warrier sent by him to make a point...to fight and strive for what was right. Just what I think.

u have touched the other side? you mean near death or just a perpetual state of in and out? i know as an epileptic, after a while it becomes like you're alive and you're dead. going into a seizure for me is like death, i fear it like nothing else. infact i fear seizures so much that i have almost for fear for death itself. since i was little i was knockin at deaths door, had viral meningitis when i was 6 months and since then i've been gettin better and worse. didnt' mean to dump my whole personal story in there. just puting it together in my head that all the shit i went through, faith in somethin more was the only thing that helped me through a lot.....now kittie is my main rock of strength for these tough times. in many ways she's my "angel" when i'm in and out and knockin on..to me...deaths door.

He is the thing I got turned off of by stereotypical christian types like yourself millionman, im not bashin you either, Im just saying if religion wants to live in the 21st century, you gotta change your ways cuz I think christians are as crazy as those islamists......
Again, what happens to a good person who DO NOT praise the lord on high when they die????

Im spiritual, religion starts wars, if your religious your on the wrong side.....

I believe jesus to have been a semi or fully enlightened being. Either way he must have been quite remarkable for us to be talking about him this long after his death.

Maybe Jesus lived, maybe he didn't who really knows. To me faith is just a way for us to control the youth and condem and avoid the "freaks", i used to be a super christian, then i realized we were all full of bs. From what i learned in the bible, most christians (most, not all) aren't doing christianity right (although its all up to be deciphered by each individual). I like buddhism, much less bs, and it actually helps in daily life(christianity did jack for me).

I'll say my thoughts and be done with the thread, because stuff like this always turns into a huge long thread of "us versus them," and it shouldn't be that way.

I believe Jesus is the Son of God, in the Christian sense. That He died for the sins of the world, etc.

I don't think millionman intended this thread to be about "religion" per se, and I see it turning into that already, and there have been some pretty dogmatic and completely unfounded statements already. Believe me, I'd love to debate theology, it's one of my favorite things to do, and I could do it until I'm blue in the face. But the truth is, some of you anti-Christians are way more closed-minded than you may think we Christians are. No amount of fact, historical records, philosophical debate or anything else will convince you otherwise because you won't even allow the thought into your brain. And I find it a huge waste of my time and anyone else's to debate this on a public forum, because as always, one side will gang up on the other side and the thread will get locked or trashed because people can't keep to the original spirit of the thread and simply state their views and let it rest.

But as always, I'm open to talk to ANYONE on this forum about my theological/philosophical/religious views, whether you just want to know what I believe, or if you're trying to prove me wrong or any other reason. I welcome it. PM me and we'll set a date for a one-on-one chat on AIM. Because I love sharing my views with people and seeing what they believe also. Also, I'm not here to force my beliefs down anyone's throat, so rest assured if we chat on AIM I won't be trying to convert you. :D

Back to the thread.

Actually there is more proof for the Jesus Christ and his resurrection than there is for any other fact of history. You just have to look and analyze. Not only was Jesus Christ a man but he was a sinless man and died for the sins of the whole world. He was the accepted substitute for all of us. We have a choice to accept or reject his offering of a pure and sinless life. Believing or not believing does not take away facts. The Bible, while it is a book of antiquity, and has been translated and copied is still a remarkable book in that it still retains all its integrity. Recent finds in archeology are in almost total agreement with present copies or translations. God has preserved HIS Word as he said he would do and we have it in the Bible. While many would disagree with this, that does not take away the facts or truth. I find it interesting that there are so many on this forum who do have a great understanding of the Christ and God and many who have believed in Christ as their personal Saviour. I also find it interesting that many don't and those who don't are often adamant and antagonistic toward those who do. I am a believer in Christ, have made him my personal Saviour and have great love for the Lord and the things of the Lord. It is a personal choice and those who don't believe like I/we do have that choice. It further makes we wonder why the attack on those who believe by those who don't believe. It seems there needs to be an exchange of thoughts with openness. It is a simple thing really, if you are thirsty and want to drink of the water in my well, help yourself. If you don't, get your own water from your well. I have found my water sweet and refreshing and very, very good. If your water is that way, then enjoy it. If it isn't I still invite you to share my water. I don't chose to drink from your well, as I have tasted some water from other wells and it was not so good. Back to Jesus Christ, he claimed he was God and so far no-one has proved him wrong. But then not everyone is done trying, but if things keep going the way they are, He is still God and still right and still living..at least He is in my heart. Thanks for listening. GS

GS, Red, et al:

I highly respect your right to believe and have faith in your beliefs. I just wanted to get across (and feel I didn't adequately) that there is so much in this world touted as "the truth" whether written or oral form that later turns out to be anything but.

I just find it very very difficult to believe that such an ancient text that has undergone so many translations and modifications (a good example, the "version" of the Bible that the JW's have where it's been proven that they've modified passages to suit their own end. Perhaps not the best example, but one nonetheless) could be anything but the collective agenda of thousands of years of control and enslavement.

It's not that I bear any animosity to anyone who has faith in God or religion in general, I in fact am spiritual but not religious. The Bible to me is just a tool organized religions use to ensure their flocks are kept in line.

Indoctrination in a doctrine that served its purpose in bringing order to a chaotic time but in the modern era nothing more then a quaint notion which still enslaves minds (there is no spoon...)

I guess my problem is not so much that people believe in God (or Jesus) but rather they take the Bible at face value and those who are members of organized religion which causes more harm then good (most organized religions, hell any organized organization such as Teamsters or The Mob, what have you.) Anytime you have one or a select group of people dictating to the masses saying this is right or that is wrong gives me cause for great concern.

Just my two-cents + tax.

Hi. I respect your honest opinions and appreciate your comments. That is what this forum stuff is about, being able to talk and discuss, and still maintain some kindness. That is often hard to show on paper or in a chat forum! If I come on too strong, then take it and chew it and realize I don't mean it harshly. So, having said that...

Wurkz2hard said:

GS, Red, et al:

I highly respect your right to believe and have faith in your beliefs. I just wanted to get across (and feel I didn't adequately) that there is so much in this world touted as "the truth" whether written or oral form that later turns out to be anything but.

Real truth, can stand any test it is put to it. AS you said, some things are put out as truth but are not. Any test that you put truth to, it must come out correct. If it has errors, then it fails. But, just because someone says some part of the Bible is wrong without carrying through on the reason they
believe it, does not make it so. I deal every week with people who make statements about the Bible but have no facts to back up their attacks about the Bible. They read it someplace and took it as face value.

I just find it very very difficult to believe that such an ancient text that has undergone so many translations and modifications (a good example, the "version" of the Bible that the JW's have where it's been proven that they've modified passages to suit their own end. Perhaps not the best example, but one nonetheless) could be anything but the collective agenda of thousands of years of control and enslavement.

Okay, I understand what you are saying, but the ancient text that you are talking about is not just any book and it has had some very, very careful scrutinizing in its history. When copies were made of the Hebrew texts, there were certain rules that prevented mistakes from being made. About translations, that is another matter. Some translations are not good and have to be accepted as that. Some translations, so called, are not translations but rather paraphrases. Others have gross inaccuracies as you pointed out...the JW's translation is in error, to prove their doctrine and "suit their own end." Good scholarship quickly reveals this and it takes some work to ascertain which translations are good and which are not. Often there is an underlying motive behind the translation. When you investigate a translation you often find what is behind the reason it was developed. Money is often the cause for a translation so we have to take that into consideration too. Having said all that, I still have a great confidence in the Bible. I reject some translatoins and accept others. If you or anyone else is really serious, they can find a good translation and read it with confidence. Certianly you would not read the JW one, because it is slanted. So, which ones are not slanted, you will have to do some home work to work on that. Up until the early 1900's most any translation was accurate in the english language and you could trust it. With the proliferation of new translations, and copyrights and "money" you just need to work hard on investigation.

I have a couple years of Greek under my belt so can deal with the Greek text of the NT, but there is so much written from accurate sources that you can learn what you want with some study. The Hebrew text has had little if anything done to it, so it is very accurate. When the dead sea scrolls were found, they were so close to the translations we have it was uncanny.

It's not that I bear any animosity to anyone who has faith in God or religion in general, I in fact am spiritual but not religious. The Bible to me is just a tool organized religions use to ensure their flocks are kept in line.

I like that term, Spiritual and not religious. So often the religious are more tradition and organization than spiritual. Wrong, about the Bible used as a tool to ensure their flocks are kept in line...most of those who want to keep their flocks in line, don't use the Bible, or if they do, they twist and pervert what they want. One of the rules of Bible investigation or proper bible interpretation is "context." Anything can be proven if you take it out of context, bible or any document. Unfortunately, many rip the verse out of the bible as a proof text for their position and ignore the accurate context of the Bible.

Indoctrination in a doctrine that served its purpose in bringing order to a chaotic time but in the modern era nothing more then a quaint notion which still enslaves minds (there is no spoon...)

I don't know what you mean by that...There are many doctrines taught by some "churches" that are not taught in any bible verse or context. They may try and teach something from a Bible text but it stretches any text to prove it. Example. The Catholic doctrine of Purgatory...no bible context to even begin to prove it. Same with confession, so called. Also, no bible context to prove Mormon "baptism for the dead." These are just a few examples of the twisting of scriptures by some to prove what they want. But, we don't throw out the bible because of someone trying to prove their position by wrongly using it. Neither do we quit using some medicine or drug when someone had a reaction or didn't use it rightly.

I guess my problem is not so much that people believe in God (or Jesus) but rather they take the Bible at face value and those who are members of organized religion which causes more harm then good (most organized religions, hell any organized organization such as Teamsters or The Mob, what have you.) Anytime you have one or a select group of people dictating to the masses saying this is right or that is wrong gives me cause for great concern.

I can't disagree...organized religion, so called often has people in control. Again, I know many who are hanging on to their church or works or what they do, as their church teaches, but often....that teaching is not bible nor does the Bible give any support to these teachings. I could give you many examples; but this has become a long post. Thanks for listening. GS
Just my two-cents + tax.

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Cool brother.

Bump......I'll be making my reply to this with links to informatino regarding the church and it's instituionalization, and it does not represent the church seen in the book of Acts. As well as presenting scripture to show Christ not only as GOD but also to show the reality that the Gospel is not a figment of someone's imagination. I am also going to present the difference between FAITH and simple belief.

J.c.

millionman said:

presenting scripture to show Christ not only as GOD but also to show the reality that the Gospel is not a figment of someone's imagination. I am also going to present the difference between FAITH and simple belief.

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So, you are going to use scripture to prove things it contains? Sounds like a rather circular argument if so.