And what dogma does non-belief in a deity commit one to? None.
Atheism is not a religion, it is simply a lack of belief. Apart from that an atheist can hold any position. There are secular humanist organizations that try help people, but I don't think they are anywhere near as prolific as the Christian ones. I don't know why you'd expect huge atheist organizations to pop up, they are a minority, to which immorality, communism and many other traits that are looked down upon are attached. Most that I know of just keep it to themselves, and as it is not a positive claim and doesn't bring anything with it, people don't gather under a common umbrella.

Oh, and Hitler was a Catholic last I heard. Was a choir boy, referenced God in speaches, etc.
 
Priap, I'll find the original research done by men much more intelligent then you or I and they went back to around the 7th century and found that the Arab religion that would be come to be known as Islam was merely put in place to control and manipulate the people, as well as to join them under one banner of faith.

This is a bit of info from one of my sources:
"Islam's origins have been traced back by scholars to the ancient fertility religion of the worship of the moon god which was always the dominant religion of Arabia. The moon god was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making an annual pilgrimage to the Kabah which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kabah seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kabah, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers, giving alms to the poor, etc. These were pagan rites practiced by the Arabs long before Muhammad was born."

Again according to the Words of God Himself, if it is not worship of Him and only Him then it is pagan or Baal worship. Your assertion that because these two lines serve the same god is not based in fact. The reason for this if you were to look into the differences in the child of Promise who is Isaac and the son conceived in Sin that this is a very essential part of who they would come to be separately and as the origin of two ethnic groups. IsHydromaxael hated Isacc because he received honor and praise because of what God accomplished by fulfilling His promise to Abraham, as well as being the favored son. This grudge led to a dissention between IsHydromaxael and Isaac and led to IsHydromaxael abandoning the God of his father and doing things according to his own standard and created his own form of worship, which many liken to of the apostacy and baal worship of the Jews in the book of Judges.

You took the above statment in the quoted text completely out of context as I was not stating that they served the same God as they do not, and this is quite clear. As I pointed out in the post previous to this that you can not make this assertion and assume it to be correct because of the teachings that come from the Quran do not fall in line with the character of El Shadei Adonai, but the character of satan, and this my friend can not be refuted. The two books in question in no way represent each other, one is a teaching of Love, generosity, justice, and Truth while the other teaches violence, hatred, and anger which resognates from the original blood feud. The Bible is very clear about second generation sin and curses that these are passed on from this generation to the next, as all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God this is not something that just is but is a curse passed onto us from Adam and Eve. If one was to deny this very simple truth and evidence to this reality then there would be no need for Christ to have died as sin was not something that could be inherited, but a choice made by the individual to go against God but this is not so as the Word is clear that all are born into sin.

Priap, the reality would be that all men are family. As we all have a common descendant at some point in time. The primary issue is not that these groups are family, but that they are not worshipping and in service to the same god as millions of people merely think this is so, but upon a dilligent study it becomes clear that the histories of these two groups are quite different. Have you ever noticed that the arabs always seem to be the first to attack. Why do you think this is? Are they not a peaceful people?

Read this if you would as another source http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/harris/031027
http://www.studytoanswer.net/myths_ch7.html
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/1590

I will say that I am going to look into different areas regarding this subject. It would be very easy to post articles and websites that agree with what I am saying. I have read a good bit of the Koran and it does call for the death of infidels and it is very hostile towards people of different faiths. It would be a very big mistake to think this is not true as it is quite clear in the book of which they base their lives.

I do think if you are to go through the above links you will begin to see a much different picture than is reported on the news and what is being pushed upon us as "fact". I have Arab friends and they are Christians who were former muslims and they have spoken to me about the way they were taught in schools to hate anyone outside of the "faith" and that they were trained to follow orders regardless of personal harm. It is authoritartian and manipulative at it's core, and it brings to mind the children in Germany and Japan who were sent to die on the front lines during WWII because it's what they were "supposed" to do, and this is a lie and has cost millions their lives, but now all of a sudden it's peaceful. History does not agree with this assertion and neither does the current climate in the middle east.
 
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2664

I like this article, and will probably buy a copy of the book. I do think that I am going to go the the library and see what kind of history I can dig up, especially before mohammad and during his reign. He was a ruler, as it appears to me that he did use his religion to control and laid down a series of laws in the hadith. I will look into this more extensiely. The last site linked to includes commentary from readers dissenting and supportive so it does well to represent not necessarily two sides of the argument but a good number of people who voice their opinions, similar to this place. I'll get back to this in a day or so and post about the history of the arabs pre and post islam and hopefully it won't be slanted one way or the other but facts, pure and simple.
 
Damn, can I say damn in this thread? Can I get a good GOD! I'm only joking. But really I was a little shocked by the fact there's almost no information on Chirst in this thread.
 
There's plenty, go back a few pages...if I need to post more I can...but I've spent a good deal of time responding at length to earlier questions and presentations. I'm a bit on the tired side since school started back, but if I need to post more about Him and what He is really about then I surely will. Tell me what you want to know and I'll answer to the best of my ability and provide further sources in case you want them. Just let me know.
 
LOL! Man, can't you give me a straight answer? You write long paragraphs of opinions and reference a bunch of websites of other peoples opinions, but provide very little information.

millionman said:
Priap, I'll find the original research done by men much more intelligent then you or I...

Again, you're being presumptuous.

millionman said:
This is a bit of info from one of my sources:
"Islam's origins have been traced back by scholars to the ancient fertility religion of the worship of the moon god which was always the dominant religion of Arabia. The moon god was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making an annual pilgrimage to the Kabah which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kabah seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kabah, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers, giving alms to the poor, etc. These were pagan rites practiced by the Arabs long before Muhammad was born."

Are these the "symbols" that you keep talking about? Ancient Jews absorbed the oral traditions of precedant peoples and made them their own, even codifying these stories into the Torah. The story of Creation, the story of The Flood, and the dialog of Job, for example, all predate their 'assigned time' in Judeo history and derive from other, older cultures of the near and middle East. Early Christians absorbed the festivals and traditions of the 'pagans' who they sought to convert. What is your point?

millionman said:
Again according to the Words of God Himself, if it is not worship of Him and only Him then it is pagan or Baal worship. Your assertion that because these two lines serve the same god is not based in fact. The reason for this if you were to look into the differences in the child of Promise who is Isaac and the son conceived in Sin...

Sin? How, pray tell, was IsHydromaxael's conception sinful?

millionman said:
...that this is a very essential part of who they would come to be separately and as the origin of two ethnic groups. IsHydromaxael hated Isacc...

Where in the Bible does it say that IsHydromaxael hated Isaac? According to the Bible, the worst thing IsHydromaxael ever did was mock (who or what isn't specified).

Genesis 21:8-10
8The child (Isaac) grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. 9But Sarah saw that the son (IsHydromaxael) whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, 10and she said to Abraham, "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac."

millionman said:
...because he received honor and praise because of what God accomplished by fulfilling His promise to Abraham, as well as being the favored son. This grudge led to a dissention between IsHydromaxael and Isaac...

Again, how do you come to this conclusion? Show me one place in the Bible where IsHydromaxael and Issac dissented.

millionman said:
...and led to IsHydromaxael abandoning the God of his father...

Really? What Book and Chapter is that in?

millionman said:
...and doing things according to his own standard and created his own form of worship...

That being.... what? I see no mention of it in the Bible.

millionman said:
...which many liken to of the apostacy and baal worship of the Jews in the book of Judges.

Who are these "many" people? Do you have references?

I'm going to stop now, since I've demonstrated my point. If you would like to provide credible answers to my questions, please do, I'll read them. However, if you are going to keep writing unsubstantiated opinion, I won't be responding to it.

Peace.
 
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It was just a joke millionman. I've been reading. It's very interesting what you two are bringing to the table. I was poking fun at the misspelling of Christ in the thread's title.
 
WOW, I didn't even notice that....Hydromaxmmm...maybe one of the mods can edit the spelling.

It's one of those things on an internet forum you can't read tone of voice, so it may be a joke and meant as one but it is difficult to tell. I know that I sometimes read what I have written and it may seem angry or harsh, but it's never meant that way, and it is a difficult thing to try to include tone of voice and present a balanced and even tone through the written word.
 
Kraft;165641 said:
And what dogma does non-belief in a deity commit one to? None.
Atheism is not a religion, it is simply a lack of belief. Apart from that an atheist can hold any position. There are secular humanist organizations that try help people, but I don't think they are anywhere near as prolific as the Christian ones. I don't know why you'd expect huge atheist organizations to pop up, they are a minority, to which immorality, communism and many other traits that are looked down upon are attached. Most that I know of just keep it to themselves, and as it is not a positive claim and doesn't bring anything with it, people don't gather under a common umbrella.

Oh, and Hitler was a Catholic last I heard. Was a choir boy, referenced God in speaches, etc.


Yes bravo Hitler in his youth grew up in a Catholic home and when he got older he was more of a Christain nationalist. Christains will denie this because they want to paint hilter as a evil Atheist and not a twisted religious person like Jim jones or George bush. Hitler also was into many occult practies.

Satlin was said to have some church affiliation too post ww2.( i think)
 
Well I read the bible and I've definitely read the alledged words of that christ that's in the bible and Jesus in my opinion a delusional and ambagious speaker.

In my hearts of heart I don't know why so many adults believe in him,he really didn't impress me at all.
 
Stuff_;152302 said:
Jesus was the Son of God. That does not mean he is God, though. Jesus stated many times over that he is not God, but rather that he is in a relationship (which requires two people) with God in the mood of a loving servant. That Jesus was God's only son does not make sense to me, if God didn't create me and everyone else, who did? Jesus was shaktivesa avatar, or an incarnation of the energy of God, just like Buddha was. Buddha was the 9th avatar of Vishnu. Jesus came, like many others, to show us how to engage in a pure loving relationship with God. That in no way implies that he is God, though. Jesus is guru, though, so if you serve and love him purely, he will bring you to God. And there is only one God; Jesus was His pure devotee, His pure servant simply carrying out His orders. Also there was writing in Sanskrit since time immemorial, and there are Sanskrit documents which date over 5200 years ago called the Vedas, from which many religions have sprung.


Finally someone who understand the the deeper lying messages of the prophets here to save our souls.

I believe that if he existed, he was an incarnation of the thing we call God.
But to give it names like that is arrogant, cause we not emotionally nor physiologically or psychologically even come close to understanding what the hell it is all about at this point.

The bible has some nice things yes, but thy the hell did they left out a lot of the important stuff ey.

Try to google for " teachings of Jesus" and find a whole nother story.
 
Jesus of Nazareth never existed .
if your willing to do some reading you'll find the story of jesus and everything about him
(25th dec , easter , virgin mother , son of god , walked on water , healer , the cross and all the rest) has been passed on to christianity from older religions like the egyptian religion where he was called horus and going back even farther to the sumarian religion where he was called tamos .
the same thing goes for the bible as a whole . anyone willing to look deep enough will realize the bible is just a kiddies version of the sumarian religious texts from a few thousand years previous.
 
Cyberstar, That's not accurate. The perpetrators of that myth have been proven incorrect on numerous occasions. People that spread that sort of lie usually have an agenda. Academic historians generally agree that a man named Jesus, from Nazareth, did indeed exist. Josephus, the Roman historian, is the most notable of records of his existence. It is thought that the inclusion of the markings, Jesus the Son of God, was later added to his original text but that's not 100%.
 
"Cyberstar, That's not accurate. The perpetrators of that myth have been proven incorrect on numerous occasions. People that spread that sort of lie usually have an agenda. Academic historians generally agree that a man named Jesus, from Nazareth, did indeed exist. Josephus, the Roman historian, is the most notable of records of his existence. It is thought that the inclusion of the markings, Jesus the Son of God, was later added to his original text but that's not 100%."

josephus's account was proven to be a forgery back in the 18 hundreds and since then there has been nothing thats turned up to prove him right .
as we all know or at least we should know the romans were very fond of rewriting history to show them in a good light or to obscure the truth if it went against them . (just look at what they write about the so called barbarians then go look at the archaeological evidence to see how much bs they really spat out )
what i can tell you is that the similarities between jesus and countless other deities is no myth thats for sure .
this character(jesus) pops up everywhere in all manner of religions . many after and many before christianity was ever dreamed up .
if it has indeed been proven to be a myth i'd like to see where this is written .
and i'd like to know who these academic historians are and how they can denie whats written in stone .(the story of horus for example is not up for debate )
the sumarian tablets can be disputed as there are only a very few who can translate them .
myself i dont understand what anyone would gain by giving false translations of the sumarian texts .
what would this so called agenda be ?
all i can think of is maybe to debunk the bible but why would anyone go through all that trouble when debunking the bible is as easy as looking up at the stars .
 
Cyberstar, Live it. That's all I can really say. If you feel strongly about what you're writing then live the way you choose and see how it turns out on the other side. There's no amount of typing on this forum that is going to change anyone's thoughts on who Jesus was or wasn't. In many respects I regret ever starting this thread, as it's really done very little good for anyone. This was actually started a LONG LONG time ago, and I have no idea how it keeps getting dug up from the MOS archives.
 
He was similar to the Buddha, and cared for people. Over time his word [Christ] has been distorted by some.
 
Jesus + Nothing = Everything
 

 
My sweet love Jesus!
 
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