REDZULU2003 said:
Penguinsfan, at the end of the day everyone has their own opinion and thats myn, like it or not its how I feel on this issue.

I understand that and I didn't mean to come off as a dick to anyone, especially since I threw the topic out for discussion. I understand you're not of an extremely pro-USA mindset from some of your other posts and I suspect some of that is fatigue from this Iraq campaign that seems neverending. There is no denying that the post-war occupation in Iraq has been full of blunders and has been really taxing on the US and its allies, of which the UK is by far the most committed in terms of support and manpower. I can understand you feel like the US throws its weight around at times and that you may not agree with all US policy, as I don't agree with all of it myself. But that doesn't change the rhetoric from Iran and that all indications that nuclear weapons could very well be used for offensive purposes. My real point was you don't have to like us to see we're right to be concerned about this.
 
REDZULU2003 said:
Penguinsfan, at the end of the day everyone has their own opinion and thats myn, like it or not its how I feel on this issue.

Could you elobrate on what what makes America the main devil? I'm not trying to goat you. I am simply curious as to how you can reason that Britian is not just as guilty. What does the average British citizen think of what I have mentioned about the recent events involving S.A.S. in Iraq. My guess is that IF it is even widley known it has surely been downplayed to the nth degree. Don't get me wrong I know that U.S. special forces are up the same sin, they just weren't caught red handed at it...yet. Most people reading this thread will think that I have something against the men and women of the military/special forces yet nothing could be further from the truth. What I am against is evil that hides in their ranks and murders in the name of God and country.

Case in point. I asked Supra why he was so gung ho about deploying to Iran and what would such a thing accomplish. He chose not to answer. I know Supra is respected on these boards to a degree and I am not saying he isn't due credit in regards to pe. However, his behavior on these forums while in a position of power speaks volumes as to his character. If somebody didn't support him or follow his views he took it upon himself to delete their posts. Now that same person has government metal in his hands and is representing my country in war. He's all amped about going to another one too. So how do you think he feels about the citizens of these foreign countries? Probably doesn't give a damn and is delighted to put some rounds downrange to effectively "delete" anyone of them without regard, as long as he can get away with it. He doesn't come across as one who thinks before he shoots. I'm all too familiar with his kind and their "Ol' Billy Bob and his shotgun" mentality. I had the misfortune of witnessing such indivduals firsthand during my own enlistment. When the citizens of these foreign countries cross his path he gives them yet another reason and affirmation as to their hatred of America. A whole new generation is now bearing witness to our ignorance. I don't now how many of his posts I had read before his deployment that were basically like "look at me, I'm a Marine, I'm serving my country, I'm a hero!" Blah fucking blah. Real heros don't jump for the spotlight and glory. They do their job because it is the right thing to do, often to their own peril, and they don't expect anything in return. Many members will think I'm an asshole for saying all this and maybe I will be banned but it's the truth, like or not.
 
nobody said:
As to more proof of the special forces/fake terrorism you can confirm through the following: ABCNEWS online, BBC, The Christian Science Monitor, and the Washington Post, just to name a few. Look for the dates of September 19-20, 05'.

Thank you. I will check that stuff out as soon as I get a chance and report back with my thoughts. If you care to do so, post any links from specific stories from the above sources so everyone can easily check this stuff out.

imperialism: 1 : imperial government, authority,or system 2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power of dominion of a nation esp. by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power , authority, or influence

What would you cite as prime examples of this? I can't deny that our own interests play a part in some foreign policy decisions as one can expect, but what are the examples that come to mind for you and have obviously shaped your opinion of US policy over the years?

Some would say our presence in the Arab world itself is imperialism. Well, if that in and of itself is imperialism then Websters should add "an act of commerce" as a new definition to the term, because our economic relations in the Middle East are the reason people are no longer sleeping in tents and riding on camels. I can think of examples where the US has acted or put its weight on somebody and, from what I can see, we had little to gain personally from the situation. For example, I don't see how we personally benefitted from sending the Marines off the coast of Liberia and telling the regime of Charles Taylor to get out or else. I don't see how our attempts to disrupt the warloads in Somalia was any economic or political benefit to us, but simply a benevolent act, though it ended up a dibacle. I don't see the benefit of our actions in the balkans beyond getting rid ot the Milosevic regime, though I think that action was a giveaway to our European allies. In fact, some Albanian muslim groups have ties to al-Qaeda, so it could have been a costly decision. What am I missing here?

Last time I checked that's American foreign policy s.o.p. Always has been, is as I depress these keys, and will be when I'm gone. "Calculated murder" goes hand in hand with such policy. The "true" government of our nation has always had the average American citizen in their cross hairs. Instead of firing single shot and burst under the cover of night, as was common place these last few decades, they have flipped to full auto and are firing in broad daylight.

I'm not following exactly what you're saying here. Please elaborate.

In closing penguinsfan I have to address your thought as to why "NO ONE" in the mainstream media has reported on these so called extreme thoeries in regards to 9/11 and the like. They have. When they do it's short and sweet and never to be repeated in further stories or broadcasts by the mainstream.

I know there have been little snipets and people like Alex Jones piece them together and draw their conclusions right or wrong. But if there is overwhelming evidence, this is the kind of thing that would totally make a journalist into a legend. I have heard about rescue workers alleging explosives in the towers, but I have never heard of any of these individuals on any talk show that I'm aware of and there are plenty of talk shows, and not just fly-by-night ones, that would give such people airtime. Again, I am open to this idea of a greater conspiracy, but not clearly convinced at this point.

Our planet's human populace majority is a lazy animal by nature though. It's easier to just go along with the rest of the flock and follow the shepard without question.

Well, admittedly it's not hard to pull the wool over our dumbed-down MTV culture. As my favorite talk show host Michael Savage says, we're more concerned with "what slut puked on Sunset Boulevard" than anything related to foreign policy.
 
Hey penguinsfan. It's almost 3am here and I'm a little groggy so let me preface this by saying I'm not working at all cylinders at the moment. Some prime examples of America's imperialism? Well off the top of my head the near complete genocide of every Native American tribe for starters. I am part of that bloodline so I'll admit it's a point of contention for me but America's hands couldn't have gotten any bloodier on that one. As to more recent examples, hell just throw a rock and you'll hit one. WWII, Vietnam, Nicaragua, and Iraq are pretty obvious just to name a few wouldn't you say? Why do think the world at large thinks so lowly of us? We've earned our reputation I'm sad to say. We go into some foreign land, stir shit up, get some locals all hyped about freedom and how they can get it through us, and when things go bad we leave em' with their dicks in the wind. Take a serious look at our miltary history and not just what they teach you in school textbooks.

I lost you a little on my "cross hairs" analogy so I'll elaborate. For decades upon decades those few outspoken citizens who had a problem with Uncle Sam and his practices, and let him know as much, they have had a history of becoming "history". The powers that be have been highly selective and extremely covert in carrying this all out. That was then. This is now: If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. If you're not a flag waving American patriot you MUST be a leftist, radical, fundlementalist, or even a terrorist. If you're not one of THEM, you're fair game and hunting season is open. They have become much more brazen in who and how they kill. The Constitution is being flushed down the toiltet and America is becoming more and more of a police state while everybody is too caught up on seeing who gets voted off the island this week to notice.

As to how the revealing of all I have brought up about 9-11/false flag terror could make some mainstream jounalist a legend? Come on man, America can't even handle Janet Jackson's nipple. You're not hearing all this in the mainstream because they don't want you to know. The New York Times sat on the whole damning illegal wiretapping by the N.S.A. for a year. What does that tell you about mainstream media reliability and their commitment the the truth? I'm bushed, gotta go, thanks for your interest.
 
Look guys I aint getting to deep in this because its all going to solve nothing as I can't do anything to start or stop nuclear power in Iran, but I will add this to Penguinsfan; no ... my mindset on this topic isn't influenced by the Iraq war or anything else, its my opinion...simple as.

PS Nobody dont fear of being banned, us Mods dont go around trigger happy banning folk.
 
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That's cool Red. I can respect that you don't want to get into this, I just thought the details behind your opinions were quite relevant seeing as that you are a British citizen and that you have relatives with S.A.S. backgrounds. I want you to know that I am sincerly sorry for the loss of your brother and the manner in which he was taken from you. One time I had some M60 machine gunners pepper the deck less than twenty feet behind my postion during a training exercise in broad daylight. Friendly fire does happen but too damn much it is caused by plain carelessness.

Off that subject, today when I tried to open the Picture Proof Section and your "war on terrorism" thread in Deep Thoughts I was blocked. The screen said something to the effect "you IP address has been banned by the Administrator". I tried several times with the same result. I'm not saying I have been banned intentionally by a mod, I just don't know why I experiencing this problem now.
 
nobody said:
That's cool Red. I can respect that you don't want to get into this, I just thought the details behind your opinions were quite relevant seeing as that you are a British citizen and that you have relatives with S.A.S. backgrounds. I want you to know that I am sincerly sorry for the loss of your brother and the manner in which he was taken from you. One time I had some M60 machine gunners pepper the deck less than twenty feet behind my postion during a training exercise in broad daylight. Friendly fire does happen but too damn much it is caused by plain carelessness.

Off that subject, today when I tried to open the Picture Proof Section and your "war on terrorism" thread in Deep Thoughts I was blocked. The screen said something to the effect "you IP address has been banned by the Administrator". I tried several times with the same result. I'm not saying I have been banned intentionally by a mod, I just don't know why I experiencing this problem now.

Thanks for understanding and I'm angry to hear about the issues your having with that other thread. Is it possible for you to find me the link so I can sort this out ASAP? bare with me.
 
I just tried again to access those sections and threads. Now it let's me in.?:(
It works now so all is good, thanks.
 
Thats strange because I haven't even done anything or said anything.
Glad its working and if you got ANY problems than us mods are always here.
 
There is a lot of correct information on that site. However there is also a good portion of obvious flakes and quacky add links. Readers should not judge the overall information available there based on the nutjobs.
 
SO, what's everyone's feelings on this now because it feels eerily like January, February of '03. Does anyone feel comfortable having our family members being sent off to Iraq with Rumsfeld and Bush in charge while they want to have more "strategic bombing on key nuclear sites," in Iran? I don't feel safe with our President and nuclear weapons at his disposal so I can't imagine what Iran must think. Iran would really retaliate in Iraq and probably would attack other nations. All of this talk about Iran is too similar to what we heard about Iraq albeit the situations with each country's leaders are vastly different despite how crazy and oppressive each is/was. All of this also seems to fit a pattern with our Administration. Experts and generals are advising against the President's instincts while the interchangeable/infallably unchanging plan is to be followed. All I know is on June 2 Divine Strake and the conventional bomb that will detonate the equivalent of 593 tons of TNT I keep hearing and reading about better not go unnoticed here.

Don't be surprised if that simulation goes well that diplomatic relations break down irreparably between the U.S. and Iran. Don't get me wrong either as I believe Iran is potentially a hostile country and dangerous one if they somehow are one day capable of launching a nuclear assault. The people there shouldn't be bombed off the planet though as if that would solve the real problems at hand. I'm just asking for one reason that favors force that outweighs the potentially disastrous implications that would come with an attack on Iran. Take all this into account as well as the reporting that our intelligence about Iran's nuclear capabilities were damaged with the outing of our favorite NOC officer Valerie Plame as well.(she was part of an operation tracking distribution and acquisition of weapons of mass destruction technology to and from Iran according to former and current intelligence officials)

I also find it very disturbing when I see "analysts" explaining how the U.S. could quickly and needs to quickly take down Iran. Isn't that what was said about Iraq? I trust the military, but I don't believe in the scum that's telling them where they should go. This war is not being planned, but that's only because it's past that stage.

I just look at our own crazy leaders in office and look at their penchant for failed planning and at best horrible judgement and question how the U.S. citizens can believe the best decisions are being made. We all know Bush is set in his ways. Whenever someone disagrees with him he ignores them and they typically are replaced. He will do what he wants so the rest of us can just sit back and try to justify more casualties and hope this doesn't completely break apart our country and its all ready strained international relations. This is about as serious a situation as can be and we have the worst people in charge. My cousins will be back in Iraq for a year beginning next month. I don't even understand it anymore. I used to think that I had a grasp on the systemic backward thinking that seemed merely misguided, but now I see that little benefit of the doubt was my own fault and it is a cold blooded agenda. Our brothers in Iran, may God help you.
 
The US gouvernment are fuckin mad and the UK gouvernment is just as bad.
Iran should be allowed Nuclear power and if they want nuke weapons for its defensive purposes like many other nations around the world.

I would have liked the west to make an ally in Iran .... instead we will make another enemy in a region where the west isnt liked much anyway.

Iran wouldnt dare use Nukes against the US like perhaps they fear, as if they would be so stupid .... its all because Iran is a middle eastern country and it seems they cant shake the mud away from past scuffles....such a shame, I have many middle eastern, arab, Jewish freinds here in the UK and its little wonder that they hate the US gouvernment like they do.
 
REDZULU2003 said:
The US gouvernment are fuckin mad and the UK gouvernment is just as bad.
Iran should be allowed Nuclear power and if they want nuke weapons for its defensive purposes like many other nations around the world.

I would have liked the west to make an ally in Iran .... instead we will make another enemy in a region where the west isnt liked much anyway.

Iran wouldnt dare use Nukes against the US like perhaps they fear, as if they would be so stupid .... its all because Iran is a middle eastern country and it seems they cant shake the mud away from past scuffles....such a shame, I have many middle eastern, arab, Jewish freinds here in the UK and its little wonder that they hate the US gouvernment like they do.

There is nothing to the claim that bombing a country would be protecting the U.S. from nuclear strikes/Israel from nukes because the U.S. would wipe Iran off the map if it did anything. Hell, there is not much evidence that Iran would strike if it could right NOW and there is this looming prospect of warring with Iran. In fact just cross out the looming part. The U.S. has a majestical and itchy trigger finger as far as what countries it will bomb, but it is apparent there needs to be something in it for Halliburton/oil industry first. As for the Iranians I'm sure there is a majority when it comes to the people of Iran who would like to be free from the kind of restrictions they are under and live as people in most of Europe do such as the UK. I know at the least they do not wish to be attacked and certainly not "liberated" in the way the Iraqi people were.

You are absolutely correct about Iran not daring using any future nuclear weapons on the U.S. RED and they wouldn't for the same reason that anyone else wouldn't/shouldn't including the U.S. in that if these weapons were used the rest of the world would be thrown into the mix. There isn't one country that wouldn't condemn such actions as the U.S. bombing Iran and certainly not with nukes. More importantly would be that no country that could actually do something harmful to the U.S. wouldn't stand against the U.S. How much more recklessness can we afford? Iraq has only cost tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of lives perhaps over a hundred thousand lives directly and indirectly from U.S. involvement and tens of billions of dollars in just about 37 months.

I find it amazing that a barrell of crude oil went for 72 bucks today. Any oil coming out of Iraq??? Destablize the region and control resources...The U.S. is in a mess in Iraq and Iran has been on the Administration's sites for a while now, but how would the situation with Iran yield better results with the same leaders? The U.S. military deserves better than the people in Washington right now.

How much worse will things get with another unwarrantable "preventative" war with the U.S. in the area?
 
Obama is building bridges with them which is great to see.
Iran are not an enemy to the west and are against the taliban too.
 
penguinsfan;202768 said:
It looks as if the situation with Iran could end up being a multi-national war before it's all said and done. I am amazed that it has gotten so little coverage in the media. Does anyone else have this concern or is this just ultimately a poker standoff that will get resolved before a shot is actually fired?

The media refuses to share information with anyone that may cause controversy. They suppress our opinion and our chance to act on specific events, they also spread false and misleading information to gain support for illegal wars and illegal actions.

American will never attack Iran, Iran has a very large amount of oil in which they are freely trading with US for weapons and arms to defend themselves and to gain more political stability within their own country.

America like to take advantage of a situation as long as they are in control, Iran is trading oil in the US dollar so America will continue to profit from this, but if Iran decides to start trading in a more profitable currency like the Euro, then America will probably go to war with Iran, but Iran is a very well defended country, unlike Iraq Iran actually has a strong nuclear and weapon program already in place and has been in place since the early 80's.

American cannot afford to cause criticism from the entire world if they decide to attack a well armed country..
 
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The US would never attack Iran and it would be stupid and needless to do so imo and why all this war anyways? why not peace in this world? I have many Iranian freinds and know about the histroy to Iran, also being a fan of some of the current leaders speeches albeit not agreeing with what he always says its the act of putting two fingers up at the USA which I like and wish the UK gouvernment did more of, but thats another story.

Hilary Clinton is an arsehole for keep badgering Iran about its Nuclear powers and so called threats to those moaning murdering Israelis that they will attack them etc and Clinton hit back with comments that the US would wipe Iran off the word map lol what crap ... what gives them the right to say that? Israel has got away with TOO MUCH in the past and now the US with Obama has started to clamp down some, its only because Jews are all over the US senate and have power that they pull the strings to the US system ... it makes me sick!!

The US has had more threat from North Korea, Libya and Pakistan than Iran yet it chooses its victims carefully ... like a playground bully, it would never dare touch North Korea now as its arse would be marked and Pakistan is very unwise, them being a big name in the region with links all over Islam and nuclear powered ... Libya well we all know about the history and imo the innocent man that got jailed in Scotland and thankfully released, all because he was convicted on evidence that he "might" have bought some clothes that ended up in the same suitcase as the bomb. This is shaming indeed ... I have nothing against the US and many nice people come from it but the real terrorists and threat to global peace is the US government!
 
Well politics makes peace impossible. The whole war thing has really gone on for too long, in an open free society like the government claims we have, we should be doing more to stop these wars. People are too lazy and no one cares, well we will care when China or India are bombing us and fucking our women and children, because one day it will happen i f we continue to act like this.

Well you see, USA and all the Allied nations are not "peace keepers" We are the terrorists, we prey on the weak and defenseless and take them over, we steal their resources and lie to the public about them being a threat and an enemy.

Our society has become so stupid we actually b elieve these people pose a threat to us, that is how dumb we have become.
 
Red--

Who the hell is that chick in your avatar with that VERY fine ass?!??!?!?
 
koooky;364631 said:
Red--

Who the hell is that chick in your avatar with that VERY fine ass?!??!?!?


Dude, ya won't believe it, but: Somebody asked that in another thread and that's a pure-dee sand sculpture. I'd still hit it.
Them kinda crabs ain't so bad at all.

What do ya think it says about the way guys think, that; in a thread about the possibility of nuclear war, and death, and devastation, and destruction we still find time to fully appreciate a fine-ass ass...even if it is just beach sand.
 
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