penguinsfan

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It looks as if the situation with Iran could end up being a multi-national war before it's all said and done. I am amazed that it has gotten so little coverage in the media. Does anyone else have this concern or is this just ultimately a poker standoff that will get resolved before a shot is actually fired?
 
penguinsfan said:
It looks as if the situation with Iran could end up being a multi-national war before it's all said and done. I am amazed that it has gotten so little coverage in the media. Does anyone else have this concern or is this just ultimately a poker standoff that will get resolved before a shot is actually fired?

The USA will not allow Iran to go nuclear there will be troops deployed before march 2006 IMO we could be looking at WW3...I hope LMAO
 
We need another military conflict like we need a hole in the head, but I don't think there is much option here. I don't want to see our guys sent into another meatgrinder. We need massive bombings to destroy almost the entire infrastructure of their cities, such as in the last World War.
 
Duppi_Krizzle said:
June 6th.

Your first post and you predict the mark of the devil !! come on give me a break, who is this guy

GWB
 
I continue to be amazed at how little attention is being paid to this scenario, given its potential. Sure hope it gets resolved in an acceptable manner.
 
penguinsfan said:
Specific thoughts?



My thoughts:


Even though I agree that Iran is the last country that I would want to have WMD's it is my understanding that everything they have done SO FAR is well within their rights under the treatise they have signed. I maybe wrong about that but that is at least the way I understand it.

I have a really extreme idea, how about we COMPLETELY withdraw from the middle east and let them continue to kill each other over sand like they have for the last 3000 years.

One more thing, Bush wanted "democracy" in the middle east. Now Hamas has been voted in so their "democracy" has spoken. How can Bush say he refuses to deal with Hamas since they were legally voted in under his ideas for "democracy" in the middle east.

kook
 
Hey penguinsfan the situation does get a lot of attention, just not the U.S. variety. I'm a firm believer in the fact that mainstream media is completely unreliable. We're supposed to be in Iraq to "liberate the people" and "spread freedom" right? Yet, you will never hear about special forces masqueraiding as terrorists killing both Iraqis and Americans. S.A.S. was caught red handed at this by the Iraqi police forces. After their capture they were broken out by British troops. Why isn't that on C.N.N. ?

The attacks pf September 11th were supposedly masterminded by terrorists, chiefly Osama Bin Laden. Did you know that firefighters and policemen were barred from testimony during the so called 9/11 commission. They along with many others wanted to testify that they heard bombs go off at the bases of the towers. They were even police reports detaling the discovery of the actual charges before they went off. This was originally reported by MSNBC on September 12th 01'. That little nugget just connvienantly slipped by the wayside and next thing you know we were flooded with media reports that not only were the guilty parties terrorist but we were even given headshots no less. Just about everyone has seen a building that was purposely brought down for construction reasons. The process is referred to as controlled demolition. Charges are methodically put in place through out the structure so as to cause the building to come down on itself directly, thus no surrounding buildings are harmed. This is exactly what brought down the towers, not the aircraft. This is "false flag" terror. Do a google for "Project Northwoods" and see what comes up. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Backtrack to the fall of 94'. Once again Haiti was a political mess. I was off it's coast and with my team was ordered to take out General Cedras and his entire police forces specifically. We worked up for weeks and on the very night of our raid while hitting the water itself everything changed. Suddenly our orders took an about face and we were to now take this on as a "peace keeping mission". Cedras and his police were to be spared. To say we were pissed would be an understatement of the highest order. I would later discover that this all came on the footheels of ex-President Jimmy Carter and his involvement in the matter. Cedras himself ordered and condoned the rape and murder of pregnant women and children. Our snipers were on him the entire time of our "peace keeping mission". And no, I didn't just read this somewhere, one of my buddies from early training was one of those snipers. We were both disgusted with the situation and left the service quite bitter over this and other matters. Instead of killing Cedras he was sent to Jamaica with $10 million in his pockets compliments of the American taxpayer. God bless America.

I don't want to be interpreted as anti-American. I graduated high school a semester early and turned down a full ride through law school to join the Marines and serve my country. I was a young idealist then, itching to be part of Desert Storm. By the time I got out of boot that conflict was already over, at least officiallly. Our government has a long history of imperialism and I don't see that changing anytime time soon. What I do see is the calculated murder of our own citizens by it's hand. It's all in plain sight where ironically many don't seem to notice. Ignorance is bliss.
 
IM looking forward going strait from iraq to iran, I hope they send us
 
"Men of action are but pawns to men of thought". I forget where I picked that up but it really stuck with me. So Supra could you elaborate on your longing for deployment to Iran? Itchy trigger finger perhaps? Do you really believe that what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan with our troops these last few years has been constructive. How is the world at large a better place? I can think of much better uses for the billions that have been spent on this "war on terror". This isn't an attack on you or our troops, I used to play for the team too. I just realized that I wasn't necessarily playing on the side of the angels. Just because somebody points their finger and says, "That's the bad guy, kill him!" doesn't mean it's always true. I refuse to be someone's puppet and it's sad that so many are willing to do so. I bought the whole "America the great" bag when I was a youth too. I'm no longer an impressionable eightteen year old. I'm a thirty three year old man who has seen and knows there is a darkside that most either don't know or refuse to know. It's a lot harder to lead troops into an ambush when they know it's there.
 
I aint going to get much involved in this thread because it wont solve anything.
However I feel that its about time the west started to build bridges with the middle east and stop trying to dictate what they do and what they should do.

Iran wants nuclear power and nuclear weapons ... that IMHO isnt a problem because they want the weapons for defense and they aint alone in that respect as India, Pakistan, Japan and even Korea have them, plus many more uncluding the USA.

I understand that at this time the middle east is a place of extreme risk and people aint trusted anymore because of wrongful hatred towards them, in essence placing them all in the same bag and branding it the same.

Look at it from the Iranians point of view, here are the WEST mainly the US of A telling them what they can and cant have, or do. The USA also has nukes, so WTF are they doing telling us that we cant have them? Look at it from their perspective.

Iran IMHO should be allowed to have the nukes and the power it wants.
They are in the UN and have to obide by the UN's laws plus I'm sure I heard that Iran were going to allow inspectors inside to oversee it all. I know they have allowed access to many of their facilities recently, so they have bent over backwards. Some feel deepdown no dougt that Iran would make nukes and sell them on the black market....but yet again maybe they wont. Who's to say the west doesnt do this? I couldnt see Iran sending nukes and attacking the west with them nor anyother terrorist group, they would SHIT THEIR LOAD than and they aint that stupid, hence they attack undercover useing stealth - placing bombs on trains, plains etc they dont launch massive payloads into countries to wipe it all out. Dont forget that alot of Irainians and middle east persons live in many western countries.

The USA is the main devil in all of this. Sorry if this hits a nerve but its how I feel. The USA were once going to develop something called 'the star wars system' in space which was some weapons system, but it didnt get started....could you imagine if someone else tried or thought of that?

Let Iran have its weapons and its power, as long they keep to their word and allow the UN to inspect I see no problems. The West could have a very valued ally in Iran if they scratched their backs, but they wont and we probably will oneday see war with them.
 
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koooky said:
Even though I agree that Iran is the last country that I would want to have WMD's it is my understanding that everything they have done SO FAR is well within their rights under the treatise they have signed. I maybe wrong about that but that is at least the way I understand it.

I don't know what treaties they have signed regarding this. I know the major players in the international nuclear community, including Russia and China, agree that Iran should not have WMDs. For what it's worth, I think regardless of what a treaty might say, the calculation changes when you say you're going to wipe Israel off the map.

I have a really extreme idea, how about we COMPLETELY withdraw from the middle east and let them continue to kill each other over sand like they have for the last 3000 years.

There is something to be said for that. I would love to find alternative energy sources and quit dealing with them, period. Let the Great Satan take his money elsewhere. However, I have some concern as to what they might do to Israel and other neighbors. As for oil, I'd love to get as much of our oil as possible from the Alberta sands and take our business out of the Middle East.

One more thing, Bush wanted "democracy" in the middle east. Now Hamas has been voted in so their "democracy" has spoken. How can Bush say he refuses to deal with Hamas since they were legally voted in under his ideas for "democracy" in the middle east.

I understand your dislike of Bush from your other posts, given your wife's situation. But this really is a different conversation than Iran. Regarding Hamas, they should not recieve any recognition or deals and Bush was absolutely embarrassing when he praised the elections as a great example of democracy. This was a tragedy much like the Chavez election (if that was legitimate) and look at the fact that Hitler was elected. Sometimes the population fucks up.

If the Palestianian people or the Iranian people at some point in the future get hit with a large-scale strike, I'm not going to spend any great amount of tears on the civilian casualties. I mean, I don't like to see civilian casualties in any war, but the are a reality of war. I certainly have less sympathy when the civilians vote in a hardliner.
 
nobody said:
Hey penguinsfan the situation does get a lot of attention, just not the U.S. variety. I'm a firm believer in the fact that mainstream media is completely unreliable. We're supposed to be in Iraq to "liberate the people" and "spread freedom" right? Yet, you will never hear about special forces masqueraiding as terrorists killing both Iraqis and Americans. S.A.S. was caught red handed at this by the Iraqi police forces. After their capture they were broken out by British troops. Why isn't that on C.N.N. ?

The attacks pf September 11th were supposedly masterminded by terrorists, chiefly Osama Bin Laden. Did you know that firefighters and policemen were barred from testimony during the so called 9/11 commission. They along with many others wanted to testify that they heard bombs go off at the bases of the towers. They were even police reports detaling the discovery of the actual charges before they went off. This was originally reported by MSNBC on September 12th 01'. That little nugget just connvienantly slipped by the wayside and next thing you know we were flooded with media reports that not only were the guilty parties terrorist but we were even given headshots no less. Just about everyone has seen a building that was purposely brought down for construction reasons. The process is referred to as controlled demolition. Charges are methodically put in place through out the structure so as to cause the building to come down on itself directly, thus no surrounding buildings are harmed. This is exactly what brought down the towers, not the aircraft. This is "false flag" terror. Do a google for "Project Northwoods" and see what comes up. Don't say I didn't warn you.

I am not aware of anything you mentioned above regarding Special Forces masquerading as terrorists. It sounds hard to believe, but anything is possible. If you have some sources you would care to cite, I would certainly look at them, providing they're not ridiculously long or from some partisan nutjob.

From journalists such as Alex Jones, I have heard many of the theories of 9/11. Some of it makes sense on some levels and I have an open mind towards it. But some of it seems hard to believe that NO ONE in the mainstream media would cover it at all. There could have been explosives planted in the towers, but the terrorist element of it is still real. I mean, the planes did hit the buildings the people died and the terrorists did hijack them. I don't believe for a second that a missile and not a plane hit the Pentagon. Where is Barbara Olson if it was a missile? We have people like Mohammed Atta on the airport surveilance cameras ready to board the planes. We have 911 calls and people that managed to call their loved ones on the planes, stating the Arab hijackers had taken control of the plane. That stuff can't be faked or manufactured, on the spur of the moment. Explosives were, at most, on site to finish the job, if they were there at all. The only thing I'm saying is that I think some of these alternative journalists might be on to something, but some of them truly are kooks, such as those that say a plane didn't hit the Pentagon and that the planes that hit the towers were remote controlled.

I am aware of the Northwoods Project and I feel certain that is why Kennedy was really killed. But I still say groups like al-Qaeda are very real, but perhaps some invisible higher layers of government manipulate them.

Backtrack to the fall of 94'. Once again Haiti was a political mess. I was off it's coast and with my team was ordered to take out General Cedras and his entire police forces specifically. We worked up for weeks and on the very night of our raid while hitting the water itself everything changed. Suddenly our orders took an about face and we were to now take this on as a "peace keeping mission". Cedras and his police were to be spared. To say we were pissed would be an understatement of the highest order. I would later discover that this all came on the footheels of ex-President Jimmy Carter and his involvement in the matter. Cedras himself ordered and condoned the rape and murder of pregnant women and children. Our snipers were on him the entire time of our "peace keeping mission". And no, I didn't just read this somewhere, one of my buddies from early training was one of those snipers. We were both disgusted with the situation and left the service quite bitter over this and other matters. Instead of killing Cedras he was sent to Jamaica with $10 million in his pockets compliments of the American taxpayer. God bless America.

Wow. Man, that sheds a lot on a situation I really didn't know all that much about. I can understand your disillusionment with your service.

Regarding Jimmy Carter, the man is the greatest embarrassment in the history of the Presidency of the United States. Yes, Bush looks like an incompetent fool at times, but he'll never catch up to Carter. Shit, we're dealing with this situation largely because of Carter's insistance of getting rid of the Shah, which ushered in fundamentalism in Iran. That old fool should stick to building houses or growing peanuts, but he continues to be a cancer that won't go away.

I don't want to be interpreted as anti-American. I graduated high school a semester early and turned down a full ride through law school to join the Marines and serve my country. I was a young idealist then, itching to be part of Desert Storm. By the time I got out of boot that conflict was already over, at least officiallly. Our government has a long history of imperialism and I don't see that changing anytime time soon. What I do see is the calculated murder of our own citizens by it's hand. It's all in plain sight where ironically many don't seem to notice. Ignorance is bliss.

Well, questioning about the possible existence of shadow government is not anti-American. Someone like Alex Jones that takes a hard, honest look, whether his conclusions are right or not or somewhere in the middle, is doing anyone that is concerned about the country a service. Someone like Michael Moore IS anti-American, because his hacket jobs selectively pick every possible scandel or blunder by someone with an "R" next to his party affiliation and selectively ignores everything else. There is no greater good that can come from that kind of journalism.

You lost me a little more on the last part. The term "imperialism" sounds like an extreme-left buzzword. Where is our empire? The calculated murder part lost me a little bit too, but again I'm happy to look at anything you present.
 
Supra said:
IM looking forward going strait from iraq to iran, I hope they send us

I wouldn't be feeling so eager. Iraq has been a meatgrinder and Iran is prepared for this conflict. If it absolutely needs to happen, I hope we do things right this time and basically weaken things up severely with air campaigns ahead of time.

Stay safe wherever you are. :)
 
nobody said:
Do you really believe that what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan with our troops these last few years has been constructive.

Well nobody, there no denying that, while the war effort in Iraq was successful the occupation has been a disaster. But Afghanistan appears far more successful. The population was living under one of the most harsh regimes in that part of the world and there are many more freedoms there now. Even the useless UN has expressed the view that the Afghan elections were very successful. And while the verdict is still out, I think the situation has gone really well when you consider just how backwards that society was. That fact that Afghanistan appears to be more stable, politically, right now than Iraq with a society that is less moderate in its religious beliefs and far less educated than the Iraqi population suggests that much of the insurgency is likely the result of outside agitators.
 
REDZULU2003 said:
I aint going to get much involved in this thread because it wont solve anything.

RED, I like you alot and I don't want to jump down your throat on this, especially since I asked for opinions, but I really disagree with most of what you said.

Iran wants nuclear power and nuclear weapons ... that IMHO isnt a problem because they want the weapons for defense and they aint alone in that respect as India, Pakistan, Japan and even Korea have them, plus many more uncluding the USA.

If you think they want the weapons for defense, you haven't watched the news. Iran has stated it will wipe Israel off the map and will help destroy the US. Where have the other countries you mentioned above used such strong, aggressive, hostile rhetoric?

I understand that at this time the middle east is a place of extreme risk and people aint trusted anymore because of wrongful hatred towards them, in essence placing them all in the same bag and branding it the same.

I don't beat around the bush on this one for the sake of political correctness. Islam has a serious problem. It is the only major religion that has a portion of its theologians that justify actions such as suicide bombing and terrorist acts from a religious standpoint. Hindus, Christians, Jews, etc. do not have a track record of such actions. The closest thing the anti-Christianity crowd can ever point out is violence against abortion doctors, the whole half dozen physicians that have experienced this. But that is literally a case of a rogue individual, not a supported theology.

Are there muslims that do not desire and condone this violence and wish for a more peaceful society? Yes, I am sure there are. Do some of them experience hostility and unfair discrimination? Yes, I know this happens. Does the muslim community as a whole bare some responsibility for this? Yes, I am convinced they do. You see, here in America years ago the Ku Klux Klan had considerable influence in parts of the country. They called themselves "christians", but any real, legitimate christian group was very quick to denounce them and work in direct opposition to their goals. The muslim community has not done enough of this. Of course, some have, but far too many of what claim to be moderate groups hide behind groups like the ACLU rather than cooperate on any level to weed out problematic elements.

Look at it from the Iranians point of view, here are the WEST mainly the US of A telling them what they can and cant have, or do. The USA also has nukes, so WTF are they doing telling us that we cant have them? Look at it from their perspective.

Of course that is their perspective, but it is morally flawed to buy into the argument that all societies have the same goals and intentions. We have been as responsible with our nuclear technology. I know some point out that the US is the only country to ever actually use them thus far, but at that time, no one knew the effects of such weapons. As mentioned already, MaHydromaxoud AHydromaxadinejad has said he will bring down the US and Israel.

I couldnt see Iran sending nukes and attacking the west with them nor anyother terrorist group, they would SHIT THEIR LOAD than and they aint that stupid, hence they attack undercover useing stealth - placing bombs on trains, plains etc they dont launch massive payloads into countries to wipe it all out.

Islam has a version of the final days of our civilization, similar in some ways to Christianity. MaHydromaxoud AHydromaxadinejad is reportedly wanting to usher in the arrival of what would be like an Islamic messiah, as best I understand it, who would help conquer the rest of the infidels like us. This man is a religious nut, plain and simple.

The USA is the main devil in all of this.

Again, with the rhetoric, I just cannot see how.
 
Hey penguinsfan, it's nice too see you have an open and yet objective mind. As to more proof of the special forces/fake terrorism you can confirm through the following: ABCNEWS online, BBC, The Christian Science Monitor, and the Washington Post, just to name a few. Look for the dates of September 19-20, 05'. There are countless other sources, on-line and otherwise, but many would just say these news sources are just a bunch of kooks because they are not mainstream and therefor unreliable......get my point. ;)

According to my copy of the ol' Webster ....ahem...
imperialism: 1 : imperial government, authority,or system 2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power of dominion of a nation esp. by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power , authority, or influence

-nobody whistles innocently in the background, head upturned, shit eating grin across his face-

Last time I checked that's American foreign policy s.o.p. Always has been, is as I depress these keys, and will be when I'm gone. "Calculated murder" goes hand in hand with such policy. The "true" government of our nation has always had the average American citizen in their cross hairs. Instead of firing single shot and burst under the cover of night, as was common place these last few decades, they have flipped to full auto and are firing in broad daylight. Call me radical, leftist, communtist, or just plain psycho. My eyes were opened a long time ago and I can't just go back to sleep with the rest of the flock, although I'm sure they sleep much better than I do.

Red, I just as penguinsfan have mad respect for you. I must admit I'm a little insulted that you think my country is the "main devil" in all this. BOTH of our countries are guilty conspirators in this facade of "war on terror". You say what's on your mind and I will always respect that, but that line of thought was completley off base.

In closing penguinsfan I have to address your thought as to why "NO ONE" in the mainstream media has reported on these so called extreme thoeries in regards to 9/11 and the like. They have. When they do it's short and sweet and never to be repeated in further stories or broadcasts by the mainstream. Dan Rather himself had immediately commented on how it looked like the towers had been brought down deliberately as in for construction. The reality is there right in front of the world. Our planet's human populace majority is a lazy animal by nature though. It's easier to just go along with the rest of the flock and follow the shepard without question. I've mention him in the past and I'll mention him again now. Milton William Cooper had an answer for all the doubters out there. How can a conspiracy of such a grand scale go unnoticed. The Manhattan Project was kept airtight and that was during war time. Never underestimate the power of those who have it and want to keep it.
 
Penguinsfan, at the end of the day everyone has their own opinion and thats myn, like it or not its how I feel on this issue.
 
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