Comment/discussion on AVERAGE size Penis

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THICKEST ONE

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I notice how many here say a 6 inch penis is "average". I think we need to reevaluate the use of the word "average".

In our every day lingo, average isn't very flattering. The girl was average looking, your grades are average, average looking car, ad nauseum.

The point is an average sized dick of 6 inches long is BIG enough to please 99% of the women out there. An "average" size dick is pretty big and few women won't feel a high degree of fullness and satisfaction with something that size, as long as the girth is reasonable at 5 inches or greater.

I have had sex with countless woman, if I quoted my estimate most of you wouldn't beleive me...in any event I rarely failed to please them and I was about 6.25 long and 5.5 inches mid shaft almost 6 inches at the base.

I could feel the bottom of a lot of women, a high percentage of them wouldn't sit back, allow me to lift their legs up, etc. as it was uncomfortable.

I am now about 6.5 inches long, but my girth is over 7 inches at the base, 6.75 midshaft and about 6.5 right behind the head.

I can honestly say that it is the girth that impresses them.

So far I haven't had one woman not comment that I was HUGE, the biggest around ever. One girl said she dated a guy much longer but she was nervous and a little scared about me because she was afraid I'd tear something.

She kept staring at it when she unbuttoned my jeans and kept sliding her hand up and down saying "Oh my God it is fing HUGE...so damn big around"

She said she could completely wrap her small hand around the other guy and once she got really wet, she could barely feel it except the length, which wasn't too pleasant. She can't get her MOUTH around my dick without hurting me...it is just too big around for her and her fingers are about an inch apart from completely wrapping around me.

I guess the whole point is, while your length may be "average" in reality, average is pretty big for a vast majority of women to get sexual satisfaction and of all the women I have talked to, had sex with etc it is the girth that they truly enjoy the most as too long can be way more painful than too big around.

Just my 2 cents.
 
I agree with you Thickestone, girls I dated said lenght is "visually stimulating", but girth is "physically stimulating".
 
5.5"+ of girth is what women really like, anything less than 5.5" of girth and women are nowhere near as satisfied. My girlfriend REALLY enjoys my new girth but even though I want more, she tells me I was better than someone she has estimated as 7.5" girth. :)

I think the average penis LENGTH range is between 5.5 and 7 inches.
The average penis GIRTH range is between 4.5 and 5.5

Those would be my guesses.
 
Thickestone, there was absolutly no reason for this post. It seems as if you made it to gloat about your big penis and how many women you have been with. Did you give one relevant piece of information about average size that hasn't been said before. Not to mention you contradict yourself stating average will please any woman , but then saying how the girl that said you were huge said that the guy she was with before didn't please her even though he was above average length. I doubt someones gonna have above average length with below average girth. So, Id really appriciate it if you'd stop posting unless you have something decent to say, instead of using this forum to read your own words to boost your ego.
 
On the contrary, I think he brings up a good point, which is that we say "average" like it is a bad thing, when in fact any woman is going to be perfectly satisfied with it. An "average" size penis really is pretty big in the real world, even if it may seem kinda small in our twisted little Penis Enlargement forum. I think you're just perturbed because thick brings up girth being better than length, which is something that I feel is true myself. If I had to choose, I'd rather have an average length cock that's fat than a long cock that's skinny. Oh wait... I do have one. :D
 
thefranchise said:
Thickestone, there was absolutly no reason for this post. It seems as if you made it to gloat about your big penis and how many women you have been with. Did you give one relevant piece of information about average size that hasn't been said before. Not to mention you contradict yourself stating average will please any woman , but then saying how the girl that said you were huge said that the guy she was with before didn't please her even though he was above average length. I doubt someones gonna have above average length with below average girth. So, Id really appriciate it if you'd stop posting unless you have something decent to say, instead of using this forum to read your own words to boost your ego.
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Franchise, You just don't get it. Kong does, as do the others, but it sailed right over your head. I made some valid points. We use the word "average" in an almost derogatory fashion, when "average" is really quite big for most women.

Kong nailed it perfectly when he stated ;

"An "average" size penis really is pretty big in the real world, even if it may seem kinda small in our twisted little Penis Enlargement forum."

Man he really nailed the point I was trying to make.

I never said the above average length guy didn't please her. I stated his above average length wasn't pleasant for her as it hurt her, so that bit of anecdotal information validates my comments on average.

Plus you would be surprised that quite a few men have above "average" lengths but weak girth measurements. Another thing is do the volume calculations and you will see that an average or below average length penis with a lot of girth displaces much more space than a long penis with below average girth.

And all things being equal, girth increases seem to be much more pleasuable and tolerable to the vast majority of women than a super long penis.

As for contradicting myself, let me put it to you this way. I have had many blow jobs in my life, I liked them ALL, but some women knocked my socks off with their skill and technique. They literally blew me away (pun intended).

Point being "average" isn't really small and most women will be satisfied, but an above average penis girth wise is much more pleasurable than above average length for the vast majority of women.

I seem to have hit a raw nerve with you. It's either an age issue or insecurity issue, but whatever don't be afraid to face the truth and look at things objectively instead of emotionally.

I don't post much, but will continue to add my opinions when I think they are relevant and valid. If you don't like them the proper and respectful thing would be to ignore them.
 
Thickestone...nice post. I think maybe there will be a time when everyone on here will realize girth is the most important thing in penis dimension as it's been stated, restated, and recognized countless times over. But it's always GOOD to have it come up every now and again.
 
Damn i want some girth now!! lol Anyway good point, if only that view was held in the cultural mindset in which case most of us would'nt be here.
 
Most surveys I've seen on female values seem to actually split fairly evenly, always with a small advantage to the girth department. Interestingly, a pretty much equal portion of women didn't really care about size that much at all. It has always seemed that a heftier girth is way more common (at least on internet forums) than some serious length, and and I've always wondered how this affects women's preferences. Check this out for a more detailed reading: http://cms.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19941101-000022.html

The penis stuff isn't until the second half, but the whole article is interesting. One note of interest: men thought that women would value length over girth, but women selected girth as more important (though the numbers show bya very small margin). However, men underestimated by HALF how many women thought that length was important.

In short, these debates are dumb. Every woman is different, there's no "golden rule" of penis dimensions that's going to sexually satisfy any woman. Girth matters, and length matters. If you think it doesn't, then who here would want a 4" penis, even if you had incredible girth? Likewise, nobody wants a 9" penis that's only as thick as a sharpie marker. Length looks very impressive, makes sex easier, and generally provokes a serious reaction form either sex (why is that Mandingo character so fetishized on this site and elsewhere? Oh yeah, amazing length. Most guys would take really impressive length, even if it meant a little less girth). Girth appearently allows for more clitoral stimulation during intercourse and increases friction for both partners, so it's a good thing too. It also makes oral and anal sex harder for her, so just like too much length it has drawbacks.

This absolutist stuff is just dumb. I agree that a site like this definately perpetuates a feeling that "just average" isn't any good, when in fact it's very good and just fine for 95% of the women alive. It's also my opinion that most of us here are just average, and that the typical lockerroom environment and associated bullshit factor that comes from a mostly male site like this is what leads to the concept that average is somehow substandard. On the other hand, nobody wants to be average, we all want to be exceptional, so the idea is to look forward to that, but realize that what you're working with is probably just fine.

I also agree that the original poster was letting loose with a little ego tripping, but that's pretty common around these parts. He may also want to consider that his experiences might be a little slanted in one direction, i.e. of course he hasn't heard any comments about length, as his length is probably something most women have encountered before and not nearly as novel as his girth, which would be in the top <1% of all men. Maybe the guy with 5.5" girth but 9" NBP in length gets a similarly enthusiastic response from whomever he's fucking? As we've painstakingly established many times over, all women are different, and so are their vaginas and sexual tastes.
 
Nothing wrong with tooting your own horn every now and then. The majority of guys who visit this forum are in some way insecure, so this kind of talk is something to be encouraged, rather than being called dumb or bullshit. So he's proud of his thick dick? Get over it. I've heard plenty of you long dongs bragging about your 8" NBP dicks, so maybe you should live with us bragging about our equally above average girths. By your own admission, half the women in that survey like a stout cock over a pencil dick anyway. Finally, this isn't a debate, it's just a discussion about the negative connotation of "average" around here, and about girth. Don't be so defensive. We know you have a big long dong. We're just saying that length aint everything. Maybe it's a moot point to us longtime vets, but the subject is going to come up again and again as newbies discover this site and join in the conversation. If it bores or frustrates you to hear the same thing over and over maybe it is time to move on or just skip the threads you've seen before.
 
Who said anything about my dick? What the fuck are you talking about? I know it's not a debate, I just offered my take on it. I didn't even chastise him for bragging if you actually READ the post, I just agreed that he was crowing a little bit.

"By your own admission, half the women in that survey like a stout cock over a pencil dick anyway"

By my own admission? That was my whole point fella. Different women like different things, some like length, some like girth, most probably like both. What the hell is your point with this? In what way am I bragging about myself, or even talking about myself?

Once again, it seems that you have posted just to try and start some stupid bullshit with me rather than to contribute to the thread. What does your post demonstrate? Show me how any of your comments are pertinent to my points that women prefer different things and that I agree with the thread's original point. C'mon guy, you're a moderator, don't you have better stuff to do then try and rile me up? Let's not hijack this thread with personal crap.
 
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Kong, nice job on taking the high road there. There are no winners in an argument and it will only sap a person's energy. We all should have enough self respect and self assuredness that we don't need to argue with someone just to prove a point.

Dan
 
THICKEST ONE said:
As for contradicting myself, let me put it to you this way. I have had many blow jobs in my life, I liked them ALL, but some women knocked my socks off with their skill and technique. They literally blew me away (pun intended).
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Yea, that makes a lot of sense and has a lot of revalance as to you contradicting yourself. More shameless self gloating. I have no probably with you bragging man. By all means you worked hard for your gains I'm sure. Boast all you want about your big dick, but don't try and make a thread about something with the underlining intention of you talking about your big dick and how many women youve been with.

kong1971 said:
Maybe it's a moot point to us longtime vets, but the subject is going to come up again and again as newbies discover this site and join in the conversation. If it bores or frustrates you to hear the same thing over and over maybe it is time to move on or just skip the threads you've seen before.
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I guess thats somewhat true. That's my whole problem with this thread. How many threads do I see a week about peopel saying average isn't that bad and we all just have bad self images etc. Then this guy decides to post another with maybe 1/4th of the post being about average size and the other bragging about how many women hes been with and his big dick. But in the same token there is a SEARCH function that I'd think most average minded people know how to use if they wanted to find some threads on this topic, and it's not like there's not tons of them. Next time just post a thread saying. My dick is big and I fuck a lot of women.
 
"In short, these debates are dumb. "

Yeah, seriously, whatever, that's totally out of context. My point was there is no point in trying to pin down if women really dig length or girth, because they dig both and they're all different. Nobody was debating, I was offering my perspective. Last time I checked that's what forums were pretty much designed for.

Your post was all about me and not at all about the thread, I called you on it, end of story. I don't expect to have anymore of these incidents where every time I chip in an opinion I get some personally motivated bullshit from you. If you've got a problem with a post I make you can send a PM, otherwise I'll thank you to quit trying to pick fights like a little kid.
 
What are you guys talking about? Personal beefs, misunderstandings, flame wars and arguments are what makes posting on this forum and other forums interesting and fun!!

Especially when you've been a member for a few years... how many "Which is more important? Length or girth?" threads can you read before you get bored? Sometimes a forum needs a few fuck you's thrown in to liven things up.
 
franchise, you made me laugh with that last part. "Next time just post a thread saying. My dick is big and I fuck a lot of women." Actually, if you named a thread that I would DEFINITELY read it. :D Too funny! I'm glad you see my point about the way these old subjects cycle through over and over, tho. They're newbs. Don't dicksmack them too hard. We actually need a veteran's spot where we can discuss such enlightened subjects as... um, dick size and... um, fucking women. ;)

swank, many of your contributions here are borderline trolling, no matter how intelligent and well-spoken you are. You are often guilty of being negative, argumentative and egotistical. You often accuse other members of being dishonest, dumb or some such thing. Get over yourself. As I have said to you time and time again, [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] is about sharing Penis Enlargement tips and experiences and supporting one another. Although your first post in this thread had some interesting points, you also tried to make this thread seem trivial and dumb. I just have to ask, Why the negativity? I have noticed in the past that you become hostile and defensive if anyone tries to say something positive about themselves. I think you have some major insecuirty issues you salve with this professor swank, former jock super cock facade of yours.
 
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Godsize said:
What are you guys talking about? Personal beefs, misunderstandings, flame wars and arguments are what makes posting on this forum and other forums interesting and fun!!

Especially when you've been a member for a few years... how many "Which is more important? Length or girth?" threads can you read before you get bored? Sometimes a forum needs a few fuck you's thrown in to liven things up.
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I agree. To be honest, although I respect swank's intelligence, I effing hate him and his smug I'm better than you attitude. He's a prick. Nothing personal. Just a personal observation. I can't stand snobs.
 
What the fuck . . . can't leave it alone? Nobody wants to hear about this shit. My first post was my opinion on the thread topic and the posts following it, then you instigated this little bullshit exchange. I don't care if you hate me, if you don't like the way I post, if my dick pisses you off, I don't give a shit about anything you think, and I'm sick of discussing anything with you, it's not worth my time. So stop posting personal crap about my "attitude" everytime I weigh in on a thread. I don't even know where this "super jock/super cock" bullshit comes from, other than it's something you've made up which is more than a little weird.

You're a moderator but you're posting like a 14 year old with nothing better to do than flip shit at strangers on the internet. As I used to say to my siblings on long car rides as a little kid, "STOP TALKING TO ME!" Seriously, I have no interest in your opinions on me or anything else, so quit addressing me with your posts. Congratualtions, your stupid obsession with me has now derailed the thread. Way to go!
 
Not fun to be on the receiving end of criticism, is it? That's how some people feel when you talk about how we are all liars and bullshitters and overstate our dick size and don't know what we're talking about like YOU do. Just a little lesson in empathy from your friendly neighborhood kong.
 
Dude, don't try to act like this is some grand scheme on your behalf, you're just acting like a childish dick and got called out doing so. Your posting isn't really doing anything except annoying me and embarassing you. When I tell you to leave me alone it's not because you're offending me or otherwise making an impact - it's just annoying and totally transparent. When I contribute criticism I usually have a topical point, rather than this childish habit of following my posts with useless personal commentary. Honestly, a grown man that spends his time and concerns himself with this type of shit on an internet forum is just plain strange. Just a few posts ago you talked about how this is supposed to be a place about advice and support, now you're clearly posting to either vent personal frustration or "teach me a lesson." Like I said, you've hijacked the thread for some stupid, trite personal shit.

Frankly this is just getting sadder and sadder from your end. Like I said, you're a moderator on this site, yet you persist on following around some poster that you happen to have a personal grudge against, so I can only assume that you're an angry man and that you lack a sense of shame. It's obvious to me at this point that you're so bored that you get off on these little internet arguments, which is why I don't want to engage you anymore. Go ahead, keep posting, I wish you the best of luck, something tells me you need every edge you can get in life . . .

Or you can act like an adult man and leave me the hell alone you fucking weirdo!
 
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If any of you have read much about how the vagina operates, you know that when aroused it will "tent" or expand, this is when women can take maximum penetration. It is possible I suppose for some woman to have a pussy that is very long and narrow, so that they could handle a long length and average or below girth, and still feel "tight." But, I don't think that this is the case for the majority of women. For most, their vagina is going to expand both horizontally and vertically, to accomodate length and girth. So that, for example they could handle 8" of a 6" girth penis, but only 5" of a 7" girth penis.

I have found this to be true, through experimenting with my wife with dildos. 8 x 6 she can pretty much take it all, 9 x 7 she can only take 5". I know that all women are different, I'd say she is pretty average I've been in tighter pussies and looser ones. Thick is right on about the girth IMHO. I'm at 7" NBP, and 5.5" midshaft girth. When she is wet & horny, I can slam it all the way in to the hilt. But, the 8 x 6 dildo at just 1/2" thicker girth is a tight fit - it is quite obvious the difference the girth makes, while she'd hardly notice an 1" difference in length. At some times of the month, she seems to be shallower and I can feel the bottom in some positions. So far, with me or a dildo I haven't been able to get her to experience anything from "CDS" penetration. She really can't seem to tell how deep it is inside.

wesb
 
All i have to say about kong and swank is that the reason "people typing" talk bullshit on forums is:

1. they are trying to create an "internet personality"

2. trying to seem cool to their "internet buddies"

main reason:

3. they know they will probably never meet the person on the other end so dont really give a shit what they type.

if you dont want to be a part of this shit than dont if you enjoy it go ahead i dont give a shit cause i dont know you.
 
The only problem I ever had with swank is that he tends to put people down. As you can see from his last two posts, it also infuriates him him to be called on it. Please don't let him fool you into thinking I am a "fucking weirdo" or "obsessed". I'm just trying to keep things upbeat and supportive around here. Really. Think about it. How often do you hear me insulting or flaming someone? :)
 
Yes, don't let me fool you into anything with my magical hypnotizing posts . . . remember, as Kong tells you, you can't think for yourselves and are easily tricked by my words. What is this, fucking Harry Potter? Poor Kong, always the victim. You picked a fight with me guy, it's right there in the posts, get real. Let's not forget that over in the anti-circ clubhouse a few weeks back I saw a post where you mentioned how you missed fighting on the internet and said some provocative crap just to try and start an argument. It's pretty obvious to me you're getting off on this and so I'm through.

I'm done posting on this thread as it has nothing to do with the original topic thanks to a certain somebody. I already said what I wanted to say, but then took the bait and kept replying when some poor lonely character just wanted somebody to bicker with online. This is just stupid beyond belief and I don't want to be further associated with it.
 
AncientChina said:
I've reread this thread and its very clear, Swank was just discussing the issue at hand until (in my humble opinion) the biggest jackass on the forum decided to start a flame war and then play the "I'm the victim shit" for the 384801728368478th time. Shame on you Kong, you have the maturity of an eight year old.
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I told him to stop calling everyone dumb and full of bullshit. How is that playing the victim? Try re-re-reading the thread. A couple of posts were obviously just teasing, so take the stick out of your butt.
 
thefranchise said:
Then this guy decides to post another with maybe 1/4th of the post being about average size and the other bragging about how many women hes been with and his big dick. But in the same token there is a SEARCH function that I'd think most average minded people know how to use if they wanted to find some threads on this topic, and it's not like there's not tons of them. Next time just post a thread saying. My dick is big and I fuck a lot of women.
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Is it jealousy or insecurity that prompts you to take such an immature attitude?

You look silly complaining I am bragging about my big dick. I was laying a foundation for my statements and only someone with some severe issues would be offended by it.

I applaud any and all here who are where they want to be through either genetics, Penis Enlargement, surgery, yoga or whatever.

There is always someone bigger and I'm most certainly not going to act like a little kid and whine because they are.
 
Bro I think you missed the point. I could care less if you're dick is 11x9 and mine was 3x2. It's lame that you mask your attempts to brag about your big dick and man whore ways a small sentence here and there about average dick size. If you can honostly tell me that more than 50% of your posts on this thread havn't been about you talking about yourself then maybe I'll lay off a bit, but you can't. I'm not acting immature at all. Calling someone out on BS doesn't make them immature.
 
I feel you kong im tired of hereing these pussies crying that everythings bullshit because there probably little punks that wouldn't even look at u if they saw u on the streets, but some of you is bragging just a little bit overboard but i aint worrying about that long as im getting pussy im not hating on u.
 
Franchise, No you are immature, insecure, and jealous. Very sad.

I could care less if you lay off or not, because in the end you are still just YOU and I am me and your whining here won't change that fact.

I think you should spend more time trying to improve yourself instead of trying to burn someone else's house down to elevate your own inadequacies.

Spend time making yourself bigger and better instead of getting pissed at those who are bigger because at the end of the day you're whining hasn't done one positive thing for you and it certainly doesn't bother me.

It just makes you look so childish.
 
THICKEST ONE said:
Franchise, No you are immature, insecure, and jealous. Very sad.

I could care less if you lay off or not, because in the end you are still just YOU and I am me and your whining here won't change that fact.

I think you should spend more time trying to improve yourself instead of trying to burn someone else's house down to elevate your own inadequacies.

Spend time making yourself bigger and better instead of getting pissed at those who are bigger because at the end of the day you're whining hasn't done one positive thing for you and it certainly doesn't bother me.

It just makes you look so childish.
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Im sorry man, but I think you're own ego is what's makign you think Im jealous of your size. Like I could I could care less that you are bigger than me. If I REALLY cared that much and got that jealous don't you think that at least once out of the entire time I've been at [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] I would have said something to someone else here with a bigger dick than me? So you're little accusations lack credability. I told you why I thought you're post was bullshit I shouldnt have to repeat it. I've said a couple times It has nothing to do with you having a big dick, it has to do with you spending 75% of the post bragging about how many women you've banged and how your dick is big. While the other 25% of the post being shit thats been said over and over and over and over again. Now like Kong said theres newbies here a lot so the posts have to come up again for people who havn't seen them , which I agreed with, but I still think its bullshit that you tryed using maybe not purposly , but what appeared to be a thread on something just to boast about your sex life. Not to mention some of you're responses dont even make sense, and you just lead them into more boasting about yourself. Like I said, it's only your ego thats making you think im jealous and insecure.
 
thefranchise said:
P.S. My dick is smaller than all of yours, but I can beat the hell out of all of you with relative ease.
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Guess this wouldn't be considered bragging huh, toughest guy on this forum congradulations man. Biggest dummest argument thread ive ever heard, and some of the worst replies. This is the type of crap that turn people away from joining the site or forum..... <:(
 
AC, it's transparently obvious that you and swank are butt buddies and that you are bitterly jealous of my post count and my enormous penis. It's easy to talk about how big your penis is and how small everyone else's penis is and how we all lie about the size of our penises when no one has ever seen your penis. My post count is 62% larger than yours, and judging by your flaming posts toward me of late, I would venture a guess that my penis is similarly 62% larger than yours.
 
Me? Gay? I seem to remember a certain AncientChina coming up with a certain little exercise called the "In the Ass Stretch" not so long ago. :D I also think it is funny how unmarried, childless, thirty-something like you get off calling other people gay. I'm what homosexual men like you call a breeder, but I'm sure you will come off with something like, "Lots of gay men get married and have kids." Yeah, that's what all us gay men do! Get married and have kids.

I'm sorry that my off-beat threads make you so uncomfortable. Seriously, as a friend, I urge you to come out of the closet and just be your flaming, fruity self. If you do you will not have such anger control issues, as is obvious in your replies to my wise and self-less contributions to this forum. Come on out, AC!

As far as beating off as kids, molestation and incest... well, I live in the south... and shit, as they say, happens. I think it is better to discuss such things than to keep it bottled away inside, eating at your guts like a cancer, until -- like you -- it makes a man go insane and viciously attack some random and innocent and kind and wise and altruistic person like me on an internet forum. You're probably so demented you had to type your reply one handed cause you were masturbating furiously while attacking me.

If you have the guts to reply to my amazingly insightful post, I would be happy to discuss your SHORT-comings with you and help you come to some kind of spiritually-healing enlightenment. I am just drunk enough tonight to deal with your bizarre and sad homophobic self-loathing and penis envy.

Your friend,

Kong

PS... lol
 
This thread started off nicely. One sharing his opinion, the others tuning in and giving their insights, believes, etc.

For the majority of posts, I'd think we should rather PM in order to not waste other peoples time reading through the crap.

Please, going forward, can we all at least try to consider, that there might be people out there that actually have a life apart from Penis Enlargement and the forum and try to lurk the "news" as efficiently as possible due to time constraints ?

MRD
 
kong1971 said:
AC, it's transparently obvious that you and swank are butt buddies and that you are bitterly jealous of my post count and my enormous penis. It's easy to talk about how big your penis is and how small everyone else's penis is and how we all lie about the size of our penises when no one has ever seen your penis. My post count is 62% larger than yours, and judging by your flaming posts toward me of late, I would venture a guess that my penis is similarly 62% larger than yours.
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Let me just call attention, only because you keep bragging about your penis size, that according to this poll that you made, the vast majority of members here (>86%) DON'T think you look to be as big as you claim. Hmm, could it be that you are FULL OF SHIT??? I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine.

http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11530
 
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Oh god. That is so old. You must have searched through tons of threads to find that, showing just how pathetic you really are. You are not even a strong fourth party to the little half-real/half-funny forum shit-throwing-contests me and AC get into, and only a faint third-party in the full-out hatefest that swank and I get into. That thread was made by me when I was just a Penis Enlargement newb and didn't know what the hell I was talking about, and have since exposed my personal self. I even kept the corrections to my stats in my sig for a while. Hey, next time you want to try to "get" someone on this forum, try to find something that is truly shameful, or just make some shit up. That's a lot more fun!!! Til then, you're just going to be a forum second-stringer... one of the Troll Butt Buddies...
 
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